View Poll Results: 2008 NL MVP...so far!

Voters
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  • Lance Berkman

    7 11.29%
  • Ryan Braun

    7 11.29%
  • Chipper Jones

    4 6.45%
  • Ryan Ludwick

    0 0%
  • Albert Pujols

    34 54.84%
  • Hanley Ramirez

    3 4.84%
  • Dan Uggla

    0 0%
  • Chase Utley

    3 4.84%
  • Other position player (please specify)

    4 6.45%
  • Pitcher (please specifiy)

    0 0%
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Thread: 2008 NL MVP...so far

  1. #81
    Pujols has had a great career and, at this writing, deserves the '08 MVP, but he really doesn't deserve any more hardware than he's gotten. He's had some very stiff competition, but he's only been screwed out of one MVP (2006, when it went to Ryan Howard). I personally think the MVP Pujols won in 2005 should've gone to Derrek Lee. From 2001-2004, Barry Bonds had the MVP on lock-down - no one else really stood a chance. If you want to take those away from Bonds because of steroids, then Pujols probably deserved two or three more, but, if you go by the numbers, Bonds was deserving all four years.

    Classic, you don't think Ted Williams deserved more hardware? I would've given him the MVP in 1941, 1942, 1946, 1947, 1949, and 1957. He only actually won in '46 and '49.

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by Walt Zink View Post
    seriously, man, just drop it. you and i simply disagree. i'm trying to take the tactful and diplomatic way out, and you're being incredibly stubborn about it. we disagree, plain and simple.
    There's no reason to get up in arms, I'm just merely pointing out that I don't think you're on the same page. Agreeing or disagreeing has nothing to do with it.
    Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otis Nixon's Bodyguard View Post
    Classic, you don't think Ted Williams deserved more hardware? I would've given him the MVP in 1941, 1942, 1946, 1947, 1949, and 1957. He only actually won in '46 and '49.

    Sorry. Apparently I needed more coffee than I got this morning. I read that the "wrong way." I thought the implication was that Williams didn't earn the hardware, therefore Williams wasn't truly great. Thus, my inquiry.

    My bad.
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  4. #84
    [QUOTE=Otis Nixon's Bodyguard;1290980]Pujols has had a great career and, at this writing, deserves the '08 MVP, but he really doesn't deserve any more hardware than he's gotten. He's had some very stiff competition, but he's only been screwed out of one MVP (2006, when it went to Ryan Howard). I personally think the MVP Pujols won in 2005 should've gone to Derrek Lee. From 2001-2004, Barry Bonds had the MVP on lock-down - no one else really stood a chance. If you want to take those away from Bonds because of steroids, then Pujols probably deserved two or three more, but, if you go by the numbers, Bonds was deserving all four years.QUOTE]

    Pujols deserved it last year, judging based on production. Either him or David Wright. Chipper and Utley were #3 and 4.

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by skyking162 View Post
    Pujols deserved it last year, judging based on production. Either him or David Wright. Chipper and Utley were #3 and 4.
    I thought it should've gone to Holliday, but at least we can agree that Jimmy Rollins had no place in the discussion.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Classic View Post
    I hope you're not suggesting that Ted Williams had "far too little hardware for a truly great career?"
    Not trying to speak for anyone, but I think the point is that Williams should have had more hardware. I don't think the implication is that Williams did not have a truly great career.

  7. #87
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    Speaking of the man who should be the NL MVP...

    another homerless night for "John Olerud" as some like to call him. Well, he did go 3-3 with a walk and 3 RBI's, making his line: .353/.461/.619 183 OPS+

    He is now second in the majors (only .006 from the leader) in BA and is leading the majors in the other 3 categories.

    The funny thing is, if Tony Gwynn had this line (which he never got close to, due to his low XB hit totals and lower walk totals) people would be acting like Tony Gwynn was the best hitter since Ty Cobb. Albert does it, and it is an "off year" (yes, I have heard mutliple "experts" say this) because he is on pace for 35 homeruns instead of 40, despite missing the three weeks with injury and leading the league in BB/PA. It reminds be a lot of Ortiz' "off year" last year, despite putting up the best seson of his career.

    People can make a case for Wright, Utley, or Ramirez due to positional adjustment, or if the Cardinals miss the playoffs and the Mets/Phils make it, but if production is the only issue, this shouldn't even be close.
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  8. #88
    Considering that David Wright now leads Utley in several important offensive categories - including Runs, Hits, Doubles, RBIs, Walks, SB, OBP and AVG - I think he deserves mention on the list as well.

    Oh, and the Mets currently lead the NL East (albeit by a half a game, mind you. Dang, shoulda posted this two days ago)

  9. #89
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    I don't know, i think the Cards won't make the Playoffs, so i give the nod to Braun.
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

  10. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by STLCards2 View Post
    Speaking of the man who should be the NL MVP...

    another homerless night for "John Olerud" as some like to call him. Well, he did go 3-3 with a walk and 3 RBI's, making his line: .353/.461/.619 183 OPS+

    He is now second in the majors (only .006 from the leader) in BA and is leading the majors in the other 3 categories.

    The funny thing is, if Tony Gwynn had this line (which he never got close to, due to his low XB hit totals and lower walk totals) people would be acting like Tony Gwynn was the best hitter since Ty Cobb. Albert does it, and it is an "off year" (yes, I have heard mutliple "experts" say this) because he is on pace for 35 homeruns instead of 40, despite missing the three weeks with injury and leading the league in BB/PA. It reminds be a lot of Ortiz' "off year" last year, despite putting up the best seson of his career.

    People can make a case for Wright, Utley, or Ramirez due to positional adjustment, or if the Cardinals miss the playoffs and the Mets/Phils make it, but if production is the only issue, this shouldn't even be close.
    This says a lot from King Albert. We all should be proud of him.
    "I am not too serious about anything. I believe you have to enjoy yourself to get the most out of your ability."-
    George Brett

  11. #91
    I chose Pujols. All year he's been sitting back doing what he's always done. The attention hasn't been their as much this year b/c some experts labeled this as his "off year" plus the fact that he was supposed to be injured all season.

    We have seen flashes of brilliance from the other players mentioned, but for one reason or another they haven't been able to keep up the production. Meanwhile, Pujols has continued to have another stellar year.

  12. #92
    [QUOTE=bjp3169;1293604]Considering that David Wright now leads Utley in several important offensive categories - including Runs, Hits, Doubles, RBIs, Walks, SB, OBP and AVG - I think he deserves mention on the list as well.QUOTE]

    I agree David Wright deserves mention -- he's probably a top ten guy.

    But Chase Utley does lead him by a large amount in something important -- fielding. Utley's a spectacular defensive second basemen, with Mark Ellis the best in the game. That's +20 runs in his favor. While Wright won a GG last year, he's really more in the 0 to +5 runs range at third.

  13. #93
    This is the problem with these polls

    As August faded and September comes in, we can see which players really have contributed

    Neither David Wright or Carlos Delgado are on this list.

    Delgado is likely the Mets MVP if not the NL MVP as the Mets have recovered and surged in the NL east.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by zahavasdad View Post
    Delgado is likely the Mets MVP if not the NL MVP as the Mets have recovered and surged in the NL east.
    The Mets MVP perhaps, but Delgado belongs nowhere near the league MVP discussion. His lone contribution has been his power and he's still not even slugging .500.

    Pujols has really widened his lead over everyone else lately.

  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahavasdad View Post
    This is the problem with these polls

    As August faded and September comes in, we can see which players really have contributed

    Neither David Wright or Carlos Delgado are on this list.

    Delgado is likely the Mets MVP if not the NL MVP as the Mets have recovered and surged in the NL east.
    One of the reasons they had to recover and surge in the first place was because Delgado was so horrible the first few months. MVPs don't have to play very well one half to help their team (and personal stats) after they were a large part of what got them into a whole to begin with. I would pick Wright, Reyes, Santana, and even Beltran as team MVP before Delgado.

    Delgado hasn't even been one of the top 20 players in the league. Why are his homeruns now more valuable than ones early in the year? So he has had 4-5 big hit lately. You don't think Utley, Berkman, Braun and Pujols haven't had a bunch of huge hits over thr course of the season? The difference is- thos guys have had a bunch of other production to go along with their "big" hits. "Big" hits produce wins in april as much as August.
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  16. #96
    The MVP is the player who Most helped him team win (except for the Dawson MVP)

    Where would the Mets be now without Delgado, Maybe not the best player in the League, but MOST VALUEBLE to the team

  17. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahavasdad View Post
    The MVP is the player who Most helped him team win (except for the Dawson MVP)

    Where would the Mets be now without Delgado, Maybe not the best player in the League, but MOST VALUEBLE to the team
    I already explained this. Delgado has had to be very valuable to his team in the second half just to make up for how unproductive he was the first half. If Delgado produced as an even average 1stbaseman for the first 2 months of the season, the Mets would be up 10 games in the standings. Please consider this: production on April 15th is just as important as it is on September 15th. Delgado has had some big hits lately, yes, but when he sucked eggs for so long this season while the real MVP candidates were having huge games and game-winning hits all season long. If I could get everybody to understand one simple thing, it is this: the games now are not more important. Delgado -through his poor play for so much of the first half of the seasons- helped to put his team in a huge hole this year. A guy with one great month in a season cannot be, nor should be MVP - I don't care what month it is he decided to produce. The Mets are playoff bound more because of the season long play of Wright, Reyes, and Santana, than a few big nights by Delgado.

    Where would the Cardinals be without Albert Pujols? Not only is the lineup surrounding him far inferior to the Mets, but Albert has produced all season. Not only that, but Albert has been better in August/Sept. than the man you want to elect soley because he has been so great in Aug./Sept. Without Albert, the Cards are down with Pittsburgh and Cincinatti. Without Delgado, the Mets would still be wildcard contenders, potentialy. Where would the Brewers be without Braun? The Philies without Utley? The Astros without Berkman, or even the Braves without Chipper (probably worst record in baseball). The where would team A be without player so-an-so argument could be used for 10 guys.

    Finally, why do you feel production "being best player" is so mutuly exlusive to being "most valuable." The most valuable thing a guy can do for his team is create runs and prevent runs. It seems pretty obvious that whoever creates/prevents the most runs for their team (afterall, scoring runs and keeping the other team from scoring seems to be a pretty important part of baseball), is a strong candidate for being most valuable. many, many guys have been more valubale to their teams by creating more runs and preventing more runs.

    Interpret the award how you want...most valuable...best numbers...best player on a playoff teram...whatever. However, the award is certainly not the "guy who had a couple of huge hits and a good month without much else award."
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  18. #98
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    Right now I'll say:

    1.Lance Berkman Astros
    2.Albert Pujols Cardinals
    3.Ryan Braun Brewers
    4.Matt Holliday Rockies
    5.David Wright Mets
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  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by zahavasdad View Post
    Where would the Mets be now without Delgado, Maybe not the best player in the League, but MOST VALUEBLE to the team
    Where would they be without Wright? Reyes? Santana? Beltran? How many more wins would they have if Delgado hadn't been a terrible, TERRIBLE player for a couple months to start the season?
    Hey, this is my public apology for suddenly disappearing and missing out on any projects I may have neglected.

  20. #100
    I can take a wild guess at why this thread has died down - there's really nothing to debate at this point. Pujols, and it shouldn't even be close.

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