View Poll Results: Who is the greatest player in Cardinals history?

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  • Stan Musial

    40 86.96%
  • Rogers Hornsby

    0 0%
  • Lou Brock

    0 0%
  • Enos Slaughter

    1 2.17%
  • Albert Pujols

    2 4.35%
  • Jim Bottomley

    1 2.17%
  • Ken Boyer

    1 2.17%
  • Ray Lankford

    0 0%
  • Joe Medwick

    0 0%
  • Ozzie Smith

    1 2.17%
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Thread: #1 player in Cardinals history

  1. #1

    #1 player in Cardinals history

    Who is the greatest position player in franchise history?

  2. #2
    how can it not be stan musial?

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by JessePopHaines16 View Post
    how can it not be stan musial?
    You'll get no argument from me. Stan the Man all the way in my book.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by OhioBoy View Post
    You'll get no argument from me. Stan the Man all the way in my book.
    Dont get me wrong i mean when Pujols retires there is no doubt that he will be the greatest cardinal ever imo but for now its Musial.

  5. #5
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    Pujols is a long, long way from being Stan Musial.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    Pujols is a long, long way from being Stan Musial.
    I never said that pujols will be the next stan musial i just said that in my opinion pujols will surpass musial as the greatest cardinal ever, but then again that is just my opinion.

  7. #7
    but pujols has a long way to go till he does pass musial.

  8. #8
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    A VERY long was to go.......
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  9. #9
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    A couple of points:

    -This is Musial in a cake walk.

    -Even if Pujols were to put up better numbers over the course of his career, which is not a given, he would never be able to take Musial's place. There's something distant about Pujols that seems to keep the fans from completely embracing him. I don't know what it is-personality, money, culture-but Pujols is no Musial. It was the combination of Musial's on-the-field talent and his personality that endears him to the fans, gives him the place in Cardinal history that he has, and makes this debate pretty much unnecessary.

    -There is no guarantee that Pujols will finish his career as a Cardinal. It's a scary thought but at some point Pujols may decide to leave for greener pastures.
    Last edited by hubkittel; 08-08-2008 at 11:51 PM.
    check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis

  10. #10
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    Who voted for Boyer? /readies torches and pitchforks/

    Please explain yourself. I have a great deal of admiration for the Captain but he's not even one of the top ten players in Cards history.
    check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis

  11. #11
    As great as Pujols has been over his 8 seasons. HeIMO Pujols would have to continue at his current production level for another 9+ seasons in order to reach Musial. That's asking an awful lot. It's possible but a long way off.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by hubkittel View Post
    Who voted for Boyer? /readies torches and pitchforks/
    Shall we string him up by his toenails?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubkittel View Post
    A couple of points:

    -This is Musial in a cake walk.

    -Even if Pujols were to put up better numbers over the course of his career, which is not a given, he would never be able to take Musial's place. .
    Exactly. When people meet Pujols, I imagine they pull out their Sharpie and a baseball and hat and ask for an autograph pretty much first thing.

    When St. Louisan's meet Musial, they approach slowly, take off their hat out of respect, ask to shake Stan The Man's hand, and THEN ask for the autograph. Musial usuall has a few of his Hall of Fame postcards in his pocket that he pre-signed to hand out to fans.

    Age of the players, and Culture is probably the two biggest factors here. Times are just different now. One of my most prized posessions (it's not even mine) belongs to my son, who's name is Brendan. He has a ball on which is written....


    To Brendan, a Great Fan. Stan Musial


    He was about 4 when we got it. He's 12 now. I dearly hope that Musial is able to attend the ASG next summer. A great time to celebrate his career. I attended Games 4 and 5 of the World Series against the Tigers with Brendan, sitting in the Bleachers as I did with my dad at the WS in 82, 85 and 87. Stan threw out the first pitch before Game 5 to a HUGE roar from Cardinal Nation. I turned to my son afterwords and said. "We win it tonight, I guarantee it." He looked a little perplexed and said something like "how do you know" or "how are you so sure."

    I said "Stan the Man is here." He just nodded his head and understood.
    Last edited by StanTheMan; 08-08-2008 at 03:32 PM.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioBoy View Post
    Shall we string him up by his toenails?
    All options are on the table.

    Seriously though, I'd like to hear their argument.
    check out This Game of Games, my blog on the history of 19th century baseball in St. Louis

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by hubkittel View Post
    All options are on the table.

    Seriously though, I'd like to hear their argument.
    My guess is that the person wasnt thinking clearly when he voted.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by JessePopHaines16 View Post
    I never said that pujols will be the next stan musial i just said that in my opinion pujols will surpass musial as the greatest cardinal ever, but then again that is just my opinion.
    That is what I replied to. Pujols has a long way to go to surpass Musial as the greatest Cardinal.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hubkittel View Post
    A couple of points:

    -This is Musial in a cake walk.

    -Even if Pujols were to put up better numbers over the course of his career, which is not a given, he would never be able to take Musial's place. There's something distant about Pujols that seems to keep the fans from completely embracing him. I don't know what it is-personality, money, culture-but Pujols is no Musial. It was the combination of Musial's on-the-field talent and his personality that endears him to the fans, gives him the place in Cardinal history that he has, and makes this debate pretty much unnecessary.

    -There is no guarantee that Pujols will finish his career as a Cardinal. It's a scary thought but at some point Pujols may decide to leave for greener pastures.
    I agree with this assessment - Stan is The Man. It may be that Albert will go on and put up huge career number, ones that may even rival Stan Musial, but i honestly cant see anyone else being named the All Time Cardinal other then Stan the Man.

    The good question is who would be second in line - my vote would be Hornsby, even with part of his career being in different teams.

    G Rizzle

  18. #18
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    Based on longevity Stan's the man. Hornsby might have made it had he played longer for the Cards. Pujols may claim this title in 10 years or so if he continues to play the way he has.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    That is what I replied to. Pujols has a long way to go to surpass Musial as the greatest Cardinal.
    If career value is your sole definition of greatness, then absolutely!!

    I do think that Pujols is about as skilled at the plate as Musial was. Okay, perhaps he's not quite as great as The Man, but you gotta believe he's close!! It's very unlikely he'll pile up the career totals Stan did, given that Albert is injury prone and plays all-out, always thinking double out of the box on every single. I also think Albert has become a better fielder than Stan ever was, and an outstanding baserunner (which Stan also was).

    So, I'd say through their 8th seasons, it's pretty close. We'll see what the next 10-15 years bring. As a sidebar; let's say the perfect confluence of events occurs, and Albert stays injury free till after age 40, with a normal aging pattern.

    Could Pujols end up perceived as the greatest player of all time?

  20. #20
    I wasn't paying attention and accidentally clicked on Ozzie Smith, so apologies when people are reading the poll. I've just been reading about Stan and how highly he's rated by the sabermetricians...how is Pujols looking in his career to date against Stan, I wonder? Reading this about Albert - "the first player in MLB history to start his career with eight seasons of at least 30 HR, 100 RBI, a .300 BA and 99 runs", you've got to think there could be a Pujols Street near Busch stadium sometime soon.
    Last edited by Famous Mortimer; 09-24-2008 at 02:04 AM.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by OhioBoy View Post
    Shall we string him up by his toenails?
    I wouldn't. Stan Musial was the greatest player. Rogers Hornsby had some of the greatest seasons with the bat.

    But Ken Boyer was a special player. A terrific hitter, fielder - he could do it all. More than that though, Kenny was a leader. Which is why he was team captain when the great Musial was still with the team.

    Ken Boyer was my favorite player when I was a young lad.

    But I voted for Musial as the greatest player who ever played for the Cardinals.

    However, as stated, I would never string up a guy for voting for Ken Boyer.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by csh19792001 View Post
    If career value is your sole definition of greatness, then absolutely!!

    I do think that Pujols is about as skilled at the plate as Musial was. Okay, perhaps he's not quite as great as The Man, but you gotta believe he's close!! It's very unlikely he'll pile up the career totals Stan did, given that Albert is injury prone and plays all-out, always thinking double out of the box on every single. I also think Albert has become a better fielder than Stan ever was, and an outstanding baserunner (which Stan also was).

    So, I'd say through their 8th seasons, it's pretty close. We'll see what the next 10-15 years bring. As a sidebar; let's say the perfect confluence of events occurs, and Albert stays injury free till after age 40, with a normal aging pattern.

    Could Pujols end up perceived as the greatest player of all time?
    Through 8 years, Albert has matched up very well with Musial. His OPS+ numbers track very similarly, and his defense is probably a tad better - he even gets a slight boost for playing some 3B as well. Another negative point for Musial, 3 of those first 8 seasons were during the talent-depleted war years. I have no problem saying that Albert has been better through 8 years than Musial, but...

    of course Musial continued at that pace for a long, long time. Albert has a lot of great baseball to play to reach Musial's total amount of production.
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  23. #23
    Does anyone know about Stan the Man's health?
    Red Sox/Cardinal Fan -- Best of Both Worlds.

  24. #24

    Stan is the Man

    Obviously there has been no greater Cardinal than Musial. I know his years in St. Louis were limited but doesn't Big Mac deserve an honorable mention on this poll?

  25. #25
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    At this point it's Stan Musial and no one else is close. If Pujols can continue his pace into the twilight of his career then he may have an argument. But what exactly is the question, "value" or "greatness". Stan played in a much different era where fans treated players very differently. We can't expect 21st century baseball fans to have the same reverence for Pujols that 1940s-1950s baseball had for Musial. So to use that against Pujols is unfair. Plus there is a cultural dynamic with Stan having kind of a good old boy, "awe shucks" image and Pujols being Dominican born player.

    And why is Bob Gibson not in the poll?
    Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 01-12-2009 at 11:57 AM.
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