Pooping out some new Marlin uniforms?Originally Posted by drdg
I can see the man on the M
and the lady lying on the L
what is the guy doing to the O
LOL
Registered User
Pooping out some new Marlin uniforms?
I can see the man on the M
and the lady lying on the L
what is the guy doing to the O
LOL
THE EVIL EMPIRE CALLS YOU
Totally correct. Standing in the batters box, its the distance to the wall that you see, and the nice short leftfield wall was great in Sun Life, this new one is gonna freak some batters out. Again i will say that most big stadiums built recently have had to move their walls in, the Padres did, the Tigers did, now the Mets are doing it. This stadium is a total mistake in dimensions.
I AM SO THANKFUL FOR BEING BORN IN NEW YORK AND FOR BEING A FAN OF ALL NEW YORK SPORTS TEAMS
Registered User
I'm glad they went with the ob letters, its a fun tribute! Now that the place is almost done, you can see the little art deco touches that make it really nice.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
FIRE FRED WILPON
Public transportation options to new Marlins ballpark:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/com...l-transit/695/
NO HANDBALL PLAYING IN THIS AREA
On the Inside
to summarize:
Marlins Stadium seats 37,000 but only has 5000 garage spots and 4000 street parking spots. As of today, there is no public transportation available
ahahahahahahahahahahaahahahahaha
THE EVIL EMPIRE CALLS YOU
The Orange Bowl, with virtually no parking, used to get 70,000 people to games. Parking was not an issue, all the people who live in that area let you park on their lawns for a fee and everyone was happy. I am sure it will be the same thing now.
I AM SO THANKFUL FOR BEING BORN IN NEW YORK AND FOR BEING A FAN OF ALL NEW YORK SPORTS TEAMS
Registered User
I don't know, I think football is different though. You have one game a week on a saturday when you don't want to leave your house. These will be weekeday day games, night games around dinner time, and games on sunday. I doubt people want to constantly be there for parking.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
THE EVIL EMPIRE CALLS YOU
The owners of the houses love to park cars in their lawns since they make a lot of tax-free money doing this, i know one of them. They will be in heaven with more games.
I AM SO THANKFUL FOR BEING BORN IN NEW YORK AND FOR BEING A FAN OF ALL NEW YORK SPORTS TEAMS
Registered User
Other than the decks, I wouldn't want my car parked in that neighborhood.
Registered User
Life in the Banana Republic
There are a couple of Miami-Dade Transit bus lines that run near the stadium. The 7 (on NW 7th St) passes a block away, and the 17 (on NW 17th Ave) is a few blocks to the west. The problem therein is connectivity to Metrorail. When the University of Miami Hurricanes played at the Orabge Bowl, MDT did run shuttle service from the Culmer Metrorail station, and I guess MDT is willing to do that again, as well as from the Civic Center station, which is the next station to the north, but it's a matter of who will pay for it. Not to mention for weeknight games, the shuttle buses would start running during the rush hour, and MDT has been known to be short of buses during that time. And Metrorail itself is no picnic, going to the game wouldn't be a problem as they run every 6 minutes during the rush hour, but when the game ends, try every HALF-HOUR And the half-hour headways are in effect all day on weekends. MDT is opening the line to the airport next spring, so there may be additional trains running, as the junction point between the exisiting line and airport line is north of the stadium (Earlington Heights station), so trains will be alternating, which means more trains south of that point. All in all, seems everyone involved has dropped the ball. Ironically, transit access is better at SunLife, with several MDT routes running right by or near the stadium, and even a line from Broward County (2-University Drive) that ends within walking distance at NW 27th Ave/207th St. (For weekday games there is also a limited stops route (University Breeze) during rush hours that connects with the Golden Glades transportation hub. Hopefully, maybe some charter bus outfit will come through, but I'm not holding my breath.
Registered User
Sweet, your right that has to be good moeny. I was worried it wouldn't be enough moeny for them to miss work or do the same boring job over and over again.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
Registered User
http://www.thepostgame.com/commentar...ins-occupy-mlb
Hruby Tuesday: Time To 'Occupy The Marlins'
Tuesday, December 13, 2011 2:43 am
Written by: Patrick Hruby
The numbers are staggering. Jose Reyes, $106 million. Mark Buehrle, $58 million. Heath Bell, $27 million. A reported $10 million for manager Ozzie Guillen, who according to rough sabermetric consensus is worth, at most, an extra three wins a season. Oh, and don't forget a $200 million offer to Albert Pujols, the prize pony of this year's free agent class.
To say that the notoriously parsimonious Miami Marlins -- what if Scrooge McDuck owned a baseball team, and also fancied teal? -- are suddenly throwing around greenbacks like drunken sailors isn't just clichéd; it's an insult to Joseph Hazelwood. And also a bad analogy. Because frankly, the Marlins aren't spending like intoxicated swabbies with a few hours of shore leave. They're spending like perfectly sober investment bankers.
The former uses their money.
The latter uses yours.
And that's why it's time to Occupy the Marlins.
Following the financial meltdown of 2008, President Bush diagnosed the deus ex machina of the Great Recession like this: "Wall Street got drunk." He was wrong. Wall Street did not get drunk. Wall Street got over. Wall Street made billions underwriting crappy mortgagees, repackaging them as Triple-A investments and peddling them to naïve investors (read: your 401(k), state pension plans); made billions more placing side bets on and against the preceding criminal, but not technically criminal practice; made billions on top of that when the whole unsustainable shell game went belly up, thanks to a massive, unprecedented influx of taxpayer cash -- again: your money -- via TARP and the Federal Reserve's money-for-nothing "discount window," which in turn allowed financial houses to keep handing out the kind of outsized salaries and bonuses that had the encamped residents of Zuccotti Park so peeved.
Over in the sports world, the Marlins are running the same basic con.
"They're finally spending money? That's a misnomer," says Ken Reed, Sports Policy Director for the League of Fans, a Washington, D.C.-based fan advocacy group affiliated with consumer advocate Ralph Nader. "To me, it's more like taxpayers have funded the entry fee into this high-priced fantasy league, and the Marlins are going off and buying players with our money. I think this will go down as the ultimate case of corporate sports welfare gone bad."
Sick of corporate bailouts? Occupy the Marlins.
Tired of seeing your hard-earned tax dollars line the pockets of people already in the top one percent of income earners, such as Goldman Sachs executives and team owners and goateed closers? Occupy the Marlins.
Looking to take a stand against the ever-escalating cost of being a sports fan, ever-escalating government spending or the ever-escalating sense that wealthy special interests are taking the general public for a ride? Occupy the Marlins.
The time is now.
Admittedly, the place is a bit unexpected.
For most of their 18-year history, the Marlins have pinched pennies with a vigor typically reserved for turning coal into diamonds. Twice, the franchise won the World Series; twice, it immediately dismantled its roster in fire-sale fashion, the better to avoid paying star players market-level salaries. And that was just fine. It's a free country. No public subsidy, no problem.
But no longer. Last week, the Marlins spent $191 million on three players -- almost as much as the $210 million the club spent on its total roster combined during the past six seasons. Reportedly, the team is looking to add more talent, presumably followed by additional champagne toasts on the club's private jet. What changed? Only this: The franchise is moving into a new $634 million ballpark, a retractable roof Xanadu-cum-stadium-sized ATM in Little Havana that figures to make team owner Jeffrey Loria even richer, largely because he:
(a) Didn't have to pay for most of its construction; (b) Won't have to share the majority of the income generated by the building with the good people of Florida and beyond, all of whom who are footing the bulk of the aforementioned bill.
Obviously, this is nice work if you can get it. (It helps to own a baseball team, and helps even more to make noises about moving your baseball team). The deal breaks down as follows: City and county taxpayers are on the hook for $100-plus million in parking garage construction; a $35 million loan to the Marlins; $12 million for road repairs and other incidental costs; and over $347 million in ballpark construction bonds, which will actually cost the public more than $2 billion over the 40 years it takes to repay them.
Naturally, local politicians agreed to this during the deepest part of the recession, when bond terms were lousy and other essential government services were being slashed and buildings like the Miami Convention Center were in need of repair; naturally, they did this while raising area property taxes in order to close a $444 million budget gap; naturally, they're funding much of the scheme with tourist-soaking hotel bed taxes and parking fees, which means they're trying to pass the outrageous cost of an inessential and fundamentally local bauble on to the rest of the nation. Or at least the rest of the nation that likes vacationing on South Beach.
Next time you book a room at the Delano, send a copy of the bill to Guillen. In return for the above multibillion-dollar outlay, the city gets ... a baseball team. The exact same baseball team it already had, only with newer, uglier uniforms. Meanwhile, the Marlins get to splurge on players, a plan club president David Samson (pictured at right with Loria) said was hatched upon receiving stadium approval. Of course it was. After all, the Marlins will receive almost every conceivable revenue stream from the new ballpark -- naming rights and concessions and ticket sales, including non-baseball events like concerts and soccer matches -- while spending just $120 million on construction and $2 million in annual loan repayments.
The team also will enjoy a 74-foot-high outfield sculpture designed by pop artist Red Grooms that features mechanical jumping marlins and diving seagulls, a Chuck E. Cheese-shaming $2.5 million animatronic wonder paid for by -- you guessed it -- art-dealing team owner Loria Miami-Dade County's Art in Public Places department. In most walks of life, this is called larceny; in baseball, it's called Tuesday.
"You are talking about an ownership group that lied to the public and came away with hundreds of millions of dollars on the basis of those lies," says Dave Zirin, author of "Bad Sports: How Owners Are Ruining the Games We Love." "And instead of paying a penalty for it, they've been rewarded. It's all from the public till."
In the manner of Wall Street pushing sliced-n-diced subprime mortgages as low-risk investments, the Marlins have played fast and loose with the truth. While lobbying for a new stadium, the team repeatedly cried poor, publicly refuting a Forbes report that it turned a $43.7 million profit in 2008. The club also refused to open its books to city officials -- a curious refusal that became decidedly less so in 2010, when leaked financial documents revealed that the Marlins made $48.9 million in profits in 2008-09. The leak infuriated many local lawmakers, and the general lopsidedness of the stadium deal was a major factor in the recall of Mayor Carlos Alvarez, a key supporter of the new ballpark.
Earlier this month, the Securities and Exchange Commission launched an investigation of the entire mess and the politicians involved, including a city commissioner who received more than $100 million for her district in exchange for her pro-stadium vote and a county commission chairman who received $40,000 in campaign donations from firms interested in bidding on the construction project.
Coincidentally -- or perhaps not -- the SEC is the same federal agency tasked with policing Wall Street.
"The Marlins were basically financed in a shell game involving community redevelopment dollars, dollars that should have been set aside to fight urban blight," says Norman Braman, a Miami-area car dealer who fought against the stadium's construction. "If the team was paying a proper rent for the stadium, if they paid real estate taxes, if some of the revenues would flow to the country, that would have been fine and I don't think the public would have had a problem with it. But the taxpayers never had a say. Politicians never put it in a referendum. They knew it would go down."
Braman, the former owner of the Philadelphia Eagles, is something of an anomaly among his peers -- which is to say, he has fought against sports welfare. In the early 1980s, he led a successful campaign to nix a proposed city sales tax that would have built a new downtown stadium for Miami Dolphins owner Joe Robbie; more recently, he went to court to halt construction of the Marlins stadium and then spent a reported $1 million of his own money to support Alvarez's recall.
The suit and the election were steps in the right direction. But neither is enough. Nor is an SEC investigation, no matter the outcome. Occupation is the answer. Tents outside the will call window. Drum circles down the third base line. Guy Fawkes masks and handmade protest signs. Because the institutionalized grifting at the heart of Marlins' recent spending spree – the brazen looting of the public treasury, of funds that otherwise could pay for schools and roads and cops and hospitals, by selfish, toy-owning millionaires who don't even need the money -- isn't simply Florida's problem.
It's America's problem, too.
It's a problem in Minneapolis, where the Minnesota Vikings are threatening to leave unless citizens fund a Metrodome replacement. It's a problem in Indianapolis, where local government cut arts funding to plug a $47 million operating deficit created by subsidies for Lucas Oil Field and Conseco Fieldhouse. It's a problem in Hamilton County, Ohio, where the $30-plus million annual debt service on publicly financed Paul Brown Stadium accounted for 16.4 percent of the county's total 2010 budget and a local official calls the Cincinnati Bengals' home "the monster that ate the public sector." (County commissioners who approved the stadium deal -- one of whom now works for the Bengals -- reportedly even promised to pay for future upgrades, including a "holographic replay machine." No joke.)
According to a study released by the University of Utah's Center for Public Policy and Administration, 28 new major league sports stadiums were built between 2000 and 2008 at a combined cost of more than $9 billion -- and more than $5 billion of that total came from public coffers.
In short, sports welfare is pretty much a problem everywhere. And if you've paid attention to the news lately -- social service cuts, broken budgets, a looming nationwide municipal debt crisis -- it's a problem none of us can afford. "The Marlins stadium deal was a little more blatant than some of the other deals, because they went in saying, 'we're broke' when they weren't," says Neil deMause, author of "Field of Schemes" and expert on stadium finance boondoggles. "But it's not really that different than all sorts of other stadium deals. Like the [Washington] Nationals, where the team said they couldn't survive without a new park, and the public stadium subsidy basically went to boost the sale price of the team for Major League Baseball. Even the [New York] Yankees got tons of subsidies for their new stadium. And they make tons of money."
Proponents of public stadium financing argue that public stadium financing is a good deal because having sports teams turbocharges local economies. Hogwash. Independent study after independent study has found the economic impact of stadium construction negligible at best and a net negative at worst – in part because sports teams create a minimal number of low-paying, part-time jobs; in part because money spent at ballgames is simply shifted from other local entertainment options. The big winners? Team owners, who watch their franchise resale values skyrocket. Otherwise, as Zirin often says, public financing accomplishes one thing: Socializing the debt and risk of pro sports while privatizing the profits.
Never mind the Occupy movement -- isn't that exactly the kind of public policy outcome that has the Tea Party so bent out of shape?
Of course, there's a better way. A way to stop the stadium scam. A way to make sure taxpayers never again spend money they can't afford to bribe sports teams they can't bear to lose while subsidizing the trust funds of Reyes' future grandchildren. Occupy the Marlins.
Forget hope -- and by hope, I mean hoping that Buehrle and Bell are generous tippers. Instead, demand change. Demand that sports franchises share their profits with the same cities and counties that are sharing their costs of business. Demand that Congress eliminate the antitrust exemptions that allow leagues to act as unregulated monopolies, playing the build-or-we'll-move stick-up game, over and over again. Demand that Loria pick up the tab for his debt-bomb stadium, or at least for his silly mechanical outfield fish.
"We have some of our nation's wealthiest people owning these franchises in a self-regulated monopoly industry that allows them to pursue their profit agendas at the expense of fans and the best interests of the game," Reed says. "It's totally irrational to put sparkling new sports palaces in the same category as public works projects like new bridges, police, firefighters. It's the most irrational thing in American public policy." A former sports marketer, Reed once hawked suites for the Philadelphia Eagles. By day, he would pitch businesspeople on the merits of shrimp cocktail and Andy Reid, often pitting rival companies against each other.
"If Brand X sees Brand Y has a suite, they say, 'We have to have one, too,'" he says. At night, however, Reed was sleepless. He had a longtime passion for sports, and couldn’t shake the voice in his head: You're feeding the beast. You're making sports worse. Presumably, Loria and his ilk sleep soundly. Perhaps they shouldn't. Perhaps Occupying the Marlins could change that.
It's time. Time to demand accountability and respect. Time for the public to be treated as a partner, as opposed to goodie-stuffed piñata. Time for hustling, greedy, parasitic sports owners to stop embodying the funny but telling statement once uttered by former baseball owner Bill Veeck: We play "The Star Spangled Banner" before every game -- you want us to pay taxes, too?
Too bad, but in a way unsurprising, the government and media waited until after the last of this whole wave of mallparks was built to turn against them. Maybe it's because the Marlins' deal might have been the most corrupt and unjustifiable?
Last edited by Mongoose; 12-14-2011 at 02:45 AM.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
THE EVIL EMPIRE CALLS YOU
Big major cities should build ballparks, its part of being a vibrant city. If i have to pay more to stay in a hotel in Miami to pay towards the ballpark, thats fine with me. A baseball team brings so much enjoyment to the public, not only the people that go to games, but the people that watch on tv, those who listen on radio, and those who read about their home team in the newspaper or on the internet and then go to work and get enjoyment discussing their team with their co-workers and friends. Plus dont forget all the people in a city who collect baseball cards of their home team.
A city paying for a baseball stadium is not like a city building a restaurant for a private owner. The next day, nobody wakes up and wants to see what happened at that restaurant, but millions get enjoyment seeing what happened to their home baseball team.
If the Marlins are now spending money to have a good team in a nice new stadium, thats a wonderful thing for the the baseball fans in south Florida. I hope they do well.
I AM SO THANKFUL FOR BEING BORN IN NEW YORK AND FOR BEING A FAN OF ALL NEW YORK SPORTS TEAMS
Registered User
Yeah. Both of them.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Registered User
I 100% agree.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
Birds and Fish
I'm really biting my tongue right now about making a snide comment about getting to enjoy the Marlins' starting shortstop.....Nah.....Yeah. Both of them.
Marlins' magical, mystical backstop fish! Nowstartingon the DL for the Toronto Blue Jays!
Birds and Fish
I wonder where these "no public stadium" types are when it comes to airports. Think about it. It's built with public money, yet goes to service private business.
Marlins' magical, mystical backstop fish! Nowstartingon the DL for the Toronto Blue Jays!
Registered User
Good point, it reminds me of when I read that the gov. gave away public highway funds to pay for the packard museum. How does paying for a car museunm for a private company equal our tax money.
The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time.
Registered User
In fairness to Mongoose, he has been bitterly critical of the Citifield deal for his Mets also. At least he isn't one of the "my hometown is perfect, other MLB cities suck" posters.I'm really biting my tongue right now about making a snide comment about getting to enjoy the Marlins' starting shortstop.....Nah.....
On the Inside
No but he is an "I just want my old Shea ballpark with $5 tickets so I can sit anywhere" kind of guy. Fantasyland. I'm happy the Mets built a new park, but not so happy about the initial face values and how the Wilpons made it in to a shrine for the Brooklyn Dodgers (isn't Karma a bitch, huh Fred)
Last edited by GordonGecko; 12-14-2011 at 08:31 PM.
Registered User
And not only is it a lot cheaper to go to a baseball game than it is to fly (and most people go to games more often than they fly), but there's no TSA to deal with.
As for the ballpark: Check out the interior webcams at night. They're testing the ribbon boards now. Got some wicked cool lighting effects going there.
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Registered User
And now Robert Redford will be starring in a major motion picture that's a shrine to the Brooklyn Dodgers. And he's not even from New York. Weird.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/0..._n_846111.html
Registered User
I thought Harrison Ford was supposed to be playing Rickey?
It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning. It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion.
Registered User
I hear they're in talks with Shirley Stoller to play Walter O'Malley:
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Registered User
From the Palm Beach Post: Inspector General questions some welding at Miami Marlins' new stadium
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/sports/...s-2030533.html
Inspector General questions some welding at Miami Marlins' new stadium
By ANDRES VIGLUCCI, CHARLES RABIN and PATRICIA MAZZEI
Miami Herald - Posted: 9:42 p.m. Tuesday, Dec. 13, 2011
Miami-Dade County’s inspector general is asking questions about the integrity of structural elements of the sliding roof on the new Miami Marlins stadium in Little Havana, after learning that a subcontractor allegedly falsified inspection reports on some critical welds.
The Marlins and their engineers embarked on a flurry of re-inspections after being alerted to the apparently falsified inspections more than a year ago, internal letters and documents collected by the IG’s office and obtained by The Miami Herald show. Some of the re-inspections led to repairs of welds that were substandard, the documents show.
In their most recent letter to the IG, dated Nov. 29, the team and its engineers say they are satisfied there are no safety or structural issues with the steel roof supports, but are conducting further tests of the welds in question “in an abundance of caution.’’
Marlins president David Samson said Tuesday the team welcomed the IG’s review.
“We want inspections," Samson said. “That’s great for us. I hope he’s looking at everything in the ballpark — everything.’’
Inspector General Christopher Mazzella, whose office has inspectors on site at the stadium everyday, declined to comment Tuesday.
Mazzella’s review appears aimed at ensuring that the re-inspections and repairs were adequate and that city of Miami building officials were fully apprised of and approved the work. The welds join pieces of the giant curving trusses holding up the stadium’s retractable roof, the steel rails on which the roof slides, as well as the wheeled “transporters’’ that join the roof structure to the rails.
In a Nov. 2 letter to the Marlins, Mazzella asked a series of technical questions about the re-inspections and standards used to conclude that welds were acceptable. The documents indicate that the Marlins’ engineers changed specifications for some welds after re-inspecting them, and Mazzella asked that any revised designs be provided to the city for review.
Reached late Tuesday, Assistant City Manager Alice Bravo, who oversees the building department, said she understood all the issues raised in that letter have been “resolved.’’
City Commissioner Marc Sarnoff, a critic of the publicly financed stadium deal, said he was satisfied after reviewing the documents collected by the inspector general.
“The engineer of record has indicated it’s a structurally sound building,’’ Sarnoff said.
The issue of the flawed inspections and welds came to light on Tuesday, a day when the Marlins conducted a media tour of the nearly complete $634 million stadium.
Miami Herald news partner WFOR-CBS 4 reported that a welder and inspector on the stadium project, Roy Fastabend, alleged that the Marlins and its contractors cut corners on inspections and fabrication of the roof structural elements.
Fastabend told WFOR that he was fired after blowing the whistle on another inspector, Mike Garcia, who allegedly signed off on some welds without actually inspecting or testing them. Fastabend also said he pointed out problems earlier in the construction process, including that a subcontractor allegedly was using weaker welds than the plans called for.
“If people knew what was going on there, or how they did things — I mean, I won’t go to that stadium,’’ Fastabend told the television station. “I won’t take my kids into that place.’’
The documents show that the Marlins’ general contractor, Hunt/Moss, alerted the ball club to the flawed inspections by Garcia, who worked for a subcontractor, in September of 2010, though the questionable inspections were conducted the previous spring. Garcia was replaced on the job on May 24 and apparently later fired.
Hunt/Moss had all welds that had been inspected by Garcia re-inspected with a variety of methods, including visual inspection and ultrasonic testing, the documents indicate. Some welds were repaired. In some cases, engineers concluded that other welds, while not done to standards called for in the plans, were nonetheless more-than strong enough to withstand roof stresses.
The private engineer of record on the job, Bliss & Nyitray, on whom the city relies to certify work at the stadium, signed off on the new inspections, repairs and recalculations, the city of Miami’s chief building official, Mariano Fernandez, said Tuesday.
The firm “reviewed the allegations and has accepted the corrections or recalculated the weldings and we have accepted that. As long as the threshold engineer is happy, we’re happy,’’ Fernandez said.
He said Garcia was supposed to inspect the welding jobs at several plants around the United States where the structural materials were fabricated.
He said the city will do a final inspection before the park opens in April.
Last edited by Chef Bill; 12-15-2011 at 04:10 AM.
"Chef Bill"
Boynton Beach, Florida
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