Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 56

Thread: Players who lost the Hall because of drugs/alcohol

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sammamish, WA
    Posts
    4,561

    Players who lost the Hall because of drugs/alcohol

    Drug and alcohol abuse is a sad road that too many people travel down. But we can still see the greatness these players had or could have had.

    Here's a thread about those players who could have made the Hall but substances took them down.

    I'd list Darryl Strawberry, Dwight Gooden, and maybe Dennis Martinez too.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” – Walter Lippmann

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Sammamish, WA
    Posts
    4,561
    Raines may have gone in first ballot if not for the Coke.
    “There can be no higher law in journalism than to tell the truth and to shame the devil.” – Walter Lippmann

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    18,928
    Blog Entries
    34
    Keith Hernandez, Dave Parker, Hack Wilson, Vern Stephens, possibly Don Newcombe, Pete Browning

    Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens, with Alex Rodriguez and Manny Ramirez likely to join them, due to PEDs
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Keith Hernandez, Dave Parker, Hack Wilson, Vern Stephens, possibly Don Newcombe, Pete Browning
    Do you mean Hack Wilson could have been better? Or do you mean Willie Wilson?
    Last edited by dgarza; 02-02-2016 at 07:32 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    12,142
    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    Do you mean Hack Wilson could have been better? Or do you mean Willie Wilson?
    Willie was involved in coke I believe. Hack was an alcoholic. Never heard the worm in a whiskey bottle story? It's in Dude Paskert's (the BB-F user's) signature.
    "I go all out. And I'm going to bring that to the table every day, in good times and bad times." - Eric Byrnes

    "...far too many people want to retroactively apply today's standards to yesterday's players, as if they played the game under the same assumptions and just heedlessly and obdurately plowed on in their own groove." - Los Bravos

  6. #6
    Bobby Bonds had problems with alcohol that possibly cost him a shot at the Hall of Fame. Sam McDowell & Bob Welch, the former more than the latter, also suffered adverse career effects due to alcohol problems. Steve Howe had notable and publicized problems with cocaine, although it was much too early to realistically consider his Hall of Fame chances.

  7. #7
    josh hamilton. Had easy hall of fame Talent but got a late start due to drugs and then got old and beat up. also had that relapse that probably didn't help but at that time his chances were probably already gone.

    Still he did decline relatively early (last really good season at 31) and might not have made it anyway but if he would have had his rookie season at Age 21-22 he would have had a really good career until then and might have made the hall with some compiling in his 30s.
    I now have my own non commercial blog about training for batspeed and power using my training experience in baseball and track and field.

  8. #8
    Steve (not Art) Howe
    David Wells
    Derek Lowe
    Jim Bouton
    Norm Cash
    Sam McDowell
    Bob Welch
    John Candelaria


    There were obviously a lot of players who were affected by alcohol before the 1960's that we are likely never to know about because 1) alcohol use was far less of a negative than today and 2) the media was almost exclusively local newspapers and far more easily intimidated by the team. Drug use, very unfortunately for the players and their families has always been a problem in baseball, and for most of baseball history has been largely ignored.
    Last edited by drstrangelove; 02-05-2016 at 07:12 AM.
    "It's better to look good, than be good."

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by bluesky5 View Post
    Willie was involved in coke I believe. Hack was an alcoholic. Never heard the worm in a whiskey bottle story? It's in Dude Paskert's (the BB-F user's) signature.
    But Hack IS in the Hall; thus the confusion. Or is the point that Hack's alcohol use was held against him for a long time and was the reason he took so long to be elected?
    Last edited by dgarza; 02-03-2016 at 05:20 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,425
    Quote Originally Posted by 1905 Giants View Post
    Raines may have gone in first ballot if not for the Coke.
    Raines debuted on the BBWAA ballot in 2008 at 24%. It'd be unreasonable to conclude that he didn't lose some votes due to his cocaine use, but suggesting that a majority of the electorate passed on him for that reason? Highly doubtful.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,425
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    josh hamilton. Had easy hall of fame Talent but got a late start due to drugs and then got old and beat up. also had that relapse that probably didn't help but at that time his chances were probably already gone.

    Still he did decline relatively early (last really good season at 31) and might not have made it anyway but if he would have had his rookie season at Age 21-22 he would have had a really good career until then and might have made the hall with some compiling in his 30s.
    This is the most recent example. Possibly CC Sabathia, too.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,425
    Insofar as players from the 70s/80s go, I think Keith Hernandez and Dave Parker certainly suffered in BBWAA voting due in no small part to the toll their cocaine habits took on their careers. Both had their reputations suffer.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,154
    Blog Entries
    4
    Parker went from the short list for "best player in baseball" circa 1975-1979 to oblivion. 1981 - 1984 are lost years instead of extensions of his prime.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4,567
    Roy Johnson, the older brother of Indian Bob Johnson, may have had more talent than his brother (debatable depending on which source and brother you listen to), but ruined his career with drinking alcohol.

    His alcohol (the "firewater") abuse is one of the reasons why Connie Mack didn't bring up Indian Bob at the start of 1932, as Mack was concerned Indian Bob would drink like his brother. Instead Bob came up in 1933. That one extra year of major league service (with the corresponding counting stats) likely has kept Bob out of the Hall of Fame.

    It isn't inconceivable that Roy Johnson's drinking kept two players out of the HOF, both he and his brother Bob.

    "Adrian Beltre for President!"


    Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for three days (baseball signatures only!)


    Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    9,425
    Anyone mention Turkey Mike Donlin?

    Josh Gibson's drug and alcohol abuse led to his early death and cost him a shot at the major leagues (although he made the Hall of Fame any way).

    Umpire "Honest John" Gaffney made the Honor Rolls of Baseball, but was probably not inducted by the Veterans Committee on account of alcoholism destroying his career.
    "It is a simple matter to erect a Hall of Fame, but difficult to select the tenants." -- Ken Smith
    "I am led to suspect that some of the electorate is very dumb." -- Henry P. Edwards
    "You have a Hall of Fame to put people in, not keep people out." -- Brian Kenny

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,899
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    Parker went from the short list for "best player in baseball" circa 1975-1979 to oblivion. 1981 - 1984 are lost years instead of extensions of his prime.
    This is why he's my pick. Guy was an absolute terror at the plate....and then it all went away. Should have been an easy 1st ballot HOFer
    “Well, I like to say I’m completely focused, right? I mean, the game’s on the line. It’s not like I’m thinking about what does barbecue Pop Chips and Cholula taste like. Because I already know that answer — it tastes friggin’ awesome!"--Brian Wilson

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by KHenry14 View Post
    This is why he's my pick. Guy was an absolute terror at the plate....and then it all went away. Should have been an easy 1st ballot HOFer
    Trying to PM you but your inbox is full.We need a moderator to help us with something.
    .


    19th Century League Champion
    1900s League Champion
    1910s League Champion

    1930s League Division Winner
    1950s League Champion
    1960s League Division Winner
    1970s League Champion
    1971 Strat-O-Matic League Runner Up
    1980s League Champion

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4,567
    Good one Brad on Donlin.


    How about John "the Candy Man" Candelaria?


    Shout out to Ed Delahanty for losing his life to booze directly and instantaneously.

    "Adrian Beltre for President!"


    Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for three days (baseball signatures only!)


    Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    9,154
    Blog Entries
    4
    To be honest was Candeleria really that good. He did lead the NL in ERA and win 20 games but I don't recall the same buzz about him as there was about his AL contemporary Frank Tanana. Perhaps with Seaver and Carlton in the NL (and to a slightly lesser extent Sutton and Niekro) it was harder to get a place on the pedestal.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    4,567
    Quote Originally Posted by PVNICK View Post
    To be honest was Candeleria really that good. He did lead the NL in ERA and win 20 games but I don't recall the same buzz about him as there was about his AL contemporary Frank Tanana. Perhaps with Seaver and Carlton in the NL (and to a slightly lesser extent Sutton and Niekro) it was harder to get a place on the pedestal.
    I don't know if he was good enough, but with a nickname like "the Candy Man", I figured he had to be mentioned!

    "Adrian Beltre for President!"


    Play the Who am I? game in trivia and you can make this signature line yours for three days (baseball signatures only!)


    Go here for all your 1920's/1930's OF info

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Rockland County, NY
    Posts
    15,600
    Blog Entries
    5
    Mark McGwire
    Barry Bonds
    Roger Clemens
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Sammy Sosa

    Steroids are "drugs", right?
    Most Underrated:Al Simmons, Keith Hernandez, Carlos Beltran
    Most Overrated: Kirby Puckett, Catfish Hunter, Jack Morris
    Most Overrated for being "Underrated": Bobby Grich, Gene Tenace, Alan Trammell
    Most Underrated for being "Overrated": Roberto Clemente, Derek Jeter, Cal Ripken Jr.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    18,928
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by dgarza View Post
    Do you mean Hack Wilson could have been better? Or do you mean Willie Wilson?
    I don't think Willie Wilson was a HOF caliber player. Yes, Hack Wilson is in, but it's a borderline case, based on the years he was managed by Joe McCarthy. McCarthy succeeded with him where others failed because he was able to keep Hack basically sober during the season. Had Hack stayed sober for some other managers, I believe he would have been a much easier choice.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    6,188
    Quote Originally Posted by drstrangelove View Post
    Jim Bouton
    I don't really think he fits here. Hurting his elbow is what turned him from fireballer to slop thrower.
    3 6 10 21 29 31 35 41 42 44 47


  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    5,967
    Blog Entries
    6
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Mark McGwire
    Barry Bonds
    Roger Clemens
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Sammy Sosa

    Steroids are "drugs", right?
    Gary Sheffield has to be in that group, if one believes in such a group.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    5,967
    Blog Entries
    6
    Bobby Bonds had a substantial alcohol problem that undercut his career.

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •