Originally posted by AstrosFan
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Bravos with an excellent point.
Originally posted by Los Bravos View PostAs 64Cards illustrated, Paul Brown deserves a ton of praise for his insistence on playing the best players he could find.
It's interesting that underdog leagues so often were havens for guys who wouldn't have gotten much of a chance. Brown was coaching in the AAFC, which was looked down on by the NFL (until the Browns showed up there in '50 and turned the whole league into their own personal hand puppets for 5-6 years) and the AFL in the '60's had many more high profile African American players than the more established NFL.
Those situations aren't exactly analagous to the AL-NL split we've talked about before, but the impluse (the establisment's feel that they already have a brand and don't need what they view as cheap gimmicks) is very much the sameStrikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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I nominate this post by melhall as being most excellent indeed:
Can one realistically change teams?
I am a lifelong Yankee fan who now hates the Yankees.
I am the type who avoids what the crowd is doing and pursues his own way. So when I was a kid in the late '80s, and all my friends here in NJ were Mets and Phillies fans, I deliberately chose to be a Yankee fan. I had read enough as a child to know the Yanks were historically the strongest franchise, but at the time they were clearly the #3 team here. So they became my team, and I was the only one in my class who liked them.
I suffered through the collapses of '87 and '88, endless mocking by my friends in '90 (watched or listened to nearly every game that year), the continual meddling of the principal owner, and all the various hijinks of a team in disarray from '87-'92. '93 brough hope, '94 heartbreak. '95 I still consider the year I had the most fun as a Yankee fan. Finally a pennant race for the first time in my baseball-conscious life! Clinching the wildcard against Toronto was a highlight of my youth (to that point). Of course I went nuts when they finally won it all in '96.
I continued as a loyal fan from '97-'01. I was genuinely saddened when Mo actually blew it against Arizona. But something had happened the prior offseason that deeply rankled me: they signed Mike Mussina. Now, I had spent half my life despising Mike Mussina for killing my team; suddenly I was compelled to root for him? This was not what baseball was about for me.
But then the last straw came in the '01-'02 offseason: they signed the odious Jason Giambi. A homegrown product of a small market team, set to begin the steep downslope guys of his body type are known for, and obviously on steroids, he represented everything I never wanted to see in a Yankee uniform.
And of course along the way the Yankees had become an empire, a team of all-stars, a virtual lock for postseason. No drama, no pain that usually accompanies growth, just machine-like dominance funded mainly by massive TV revenue.
This is not why I became a Yankee fan.
So since then I haven't rooted.
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This is brilliant!
Originally posted by ol' aches and pains View PostI had a dream, a vision of the future of baseball. Let's contract all of MLB except for the Yankees and the Washington Nationals. Let the Yankee players inject all the steroids they want, maybe hire Jose Canseco as Strength and Conditioning Coach. Test the Washington players rigorously, to ensure none of them are juicing. Hire Tony LaRussa to manage the Yankee squad, I guess Riggleman can stay on as the Washington manager, it doesn't really matter who the Washington manager is. Assemble an umpiring crew: Crew Chief "Cowboy" Joe West, Tim McClelland, Phil Cuzzi, and Ed Rapuano. Change the Yankees' name to the Bronx Globetrotters, change the Nats to the Washington Generals, and send them out to tour all the Major League parks. The pro-steroids fans can root for the Globetrotters, and the anti-steroids fans can root for the Generals. Everybody's happy!Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Pretty funny response from CCN.
Originally posted by Bitter Fan View Post2. The Midwestern teams didn't DO anything! From 1920 to 1994 the White Sox won a single pennant and didn't have any Hall of Famers who weren't banjo-hitting middle infielders or Sunday starters. The Cubs have gone 102 years without a series. The Indians and Reds got their bits. The Cardinals got plenty of treatment - Rickey, the 1926 team, the Gashouse Gang, Bob Gibson, Curt Flood. This all generally revolves around "STAN MUSIAL!" and Musial got his piece, it was just awkwardly placed.Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose View PostI guess "bits" are good enough and what we meekly deserve.
"Here, you rubes, have a cookie, we mentioned Hank Grenberg in passing. Now MARIO CUOMO PLAYED MINOR LEAGUE BASEBALL!"
Burns did a fine job overall, and deserves kudos for everything he dug up and presented. But his critics have very legitimate points of contention against what has been presented as the story of the American pastime. America's a bit bigger than what we got.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Good post from willshad.
Originally posted by willshad View PostAnd Ive seen Barry Bonds strike out many times and look like a total fool. Doesn't mean much, really. The fact is that Piazza held the catcher's spot for 14 seasons and mostly on successful teams, with pitching staffs that didn't give up many runs. If he was hurting the team THAT MUCH, some manager somewhere along the line would have moved him, or at least attempted to do so. He could field the position well, handled pitchers, called games, did everything else a catcher needs to do. Of course it isn't good that he threw out so few runners, but he DID throw out 23% of the runners , which isn't exactly nothing. If stolen bases need to be successful 66% of the time in order to be beneficial, then it says that the team was not really being hurt a LOT by Piazza's bad throwing. And the fact is that if he WAS good in that department, he would pretty much be universally regarded as the best catcher ever, and a top 20 all time player. So no shame in 'only' being a top 40 or 50 player instead.
Jorge Posada really has just been a tiny bit better throwing out runners, but you don't see him get anywhere near the bad rap that Piazza gets. Overall, Piazza was better defensively than Posada, probably.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Originally posted by RuthMayBondWell, it's a unique opinion, anywayStrikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View PostI just happen to agree with willshad on this issue of Mike Piazza's "defense".Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge
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Originally posted by RuthMayBond View PostYou're the one who put it in quotes, not me
I put "defense" in quotes because no one has yet defined for me what catcher "defense" really is.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View PostToche RMB!
I put "defense" in quotes because no one has yet defined for me what catcher "defense" really is.
defn. - Mike Piazza doesn't know the definition either
If you don't know what it is, how do you know Piazza was doing it?Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge
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Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Postcatch-er de-fense [kach-er] [dee-fens] - noun.
defn. - Mike Piazza doesn't know the definition either
If you don't know what it is, how do you know Piazza was doing it?
"Pizza's throwing arm sucked! Therefore Piazza's entire defense sucked!"
Do other people really reduce catcher's defense to just throwing out runners? I find that odd.Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 11-29-2010, 11:59 AM.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Originally posted by Honus Wagner Rules View PostI have my own ideas of what catcher defense can be defined as. But I ask the question to see whether others really have a well thought out definition of their own. At the very least I have yet to see a generally agreed upon description of what good catcher's defense entails. The whole "Piazza has awful defense" meme is always reduced to his poor throwing arm.
"Pizza's throwing arm sucked! Therefore Piazza's defense sucked!"
Do other people really reduce catcher's defense to just throwing out runners? I find that odd.Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge
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Originally posted by RuthMayBond View Postwillshad has a good definition, I'm just not sure how he proves that Piazza did it. Perhaps his pitching staffs whose homes were Shea and Dodger Stadium kinda helped them give up not many runs?Last edited by Honus Wagner Rules; 11-29-2010, 12:17 PM.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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Good post from SHOELESSJOE3. I like cheering ofr the Rays because of their success despite being a poor team that doesn't draw many fans. If they recent the 2011 postseaons i will adopt them as my team to cheer for.
Originally posted by Mr. Laser Beam View PostA new stadium sure as hell can't *hurt*. It can never make the attendance go down - only up. So it can never hurt to try.Originally posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View PostHow will it help after the novelty wears off and attendance goes back down, all those millions spent for nothing.
Lets try it again.....Your tied for the wild card spot....two games left in the season...the Yankees are in town, and you draw 19,000. The interest is not there.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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In response to the White Sox hiring Robin Ventura as their new manager.
Originally posted by Blue387 View PostI think Kenny Williams just chose the first man who walked past his office.Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis
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