Results 1 to 25 of 25

Thread: American baseball players, thanks alot for your support of international baseball....

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    796

    American baseball players, thanks alot for your support of international baseball....

    Seriously without putting together a list, I've just gotten the sense this past week that just as many Americans are getting out of this tournament as last time and some arent even citing injuries as reasons. Off the top of my head I have....

    Josh Hamilton(although he wants to play in future ones, I do believe him when he says he wants to establish himself more in MLB because of the years lost to addicitions)
    AJ Burnett
    CC Sabathia
    Josh Beckett
    Cole Hamels
    Dan Haren
    Ron Howard

    Anyone else agree that it sort of seems we're seeing once again a lack of commitment by alot of American baseball players?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    I wish Hamilton would play.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    21,773
    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    Seriously without putting together a list, I've just gotten the sense this past week that just as many Americans are getting out of this tournament as last time and some arent even citing injuries as reasons. Off the top of my head I have....

    Josh Hamilton(although he wants to play in future ones, I do believe him when he says he wants to establish himself more in MLB because of the years lost to addicitions)
    AJ Burnett
    CC Sabathia
    Josh Beckett
    Cole Hamels
    Dan Haren
    Ron Howard

    Anyone else agree that it sort of seems we're seeing once again a lack of commitment by alot of American baseball players?
    Richie Cunningham doesn't want to play in the WBC?

    Seriously, though, many other non-American ballplayers won't play either. As I've stated before in '06 the Japanese team only had two major leaguers. If the ballplayers don't want to to play they don't want to play. You can add Tim Lincecum to that list as well. You stated months ago that he will not play this time around.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    353
    They should invite Tuffy Rhodes to play! Though I doubt Orix would want to lose him for the better part of a month in what will probably be his last season. Still in light of his likely retirement after 2009, it would be great for him to get at least some recognition and a chance to play for his country.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Tuscaloosa, AL
    Posts
    5,727
    It would be fine with me if every player opted out of this tournament. Hopefully, few members of the Indians will be involved with it.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Kansas City
    Posts
    10,144
    If I was them I wouldn't play either. Why should I jeopardize my career and lively hood playing in a series of exhibition games?? And, counting spring training, I am already devoting 7+ months to active participation in the game.
    Buck O'Neil: The Monarch of Baseball

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    If I was them I wouldn't play either. Why should I jeopardize my career and lively hood playing in a series of exhibition games?? And, counting spring training, I am already devoting 7+ months to active participation in the game.
    Livelihood? These guys are making millions of dollars and are in no danger of having to beg on the street corner. This takes an extra week or so out of their time to play a game they presumably love, to help their country in a fun international tournament. I'm glad many players (Ryan Braun, Grady Sizemore, Dustin Pedroia, Derek Jeter, Chipper Jones, Joe Mauer, David Wright, Justin Morneau, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Ichiro Suzuki, Johan Santana, Geovany Soto, etc.) are willing to participate. Let's focus on the good guys and not the bad apples.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    21,773
    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    Livelihood? These guys are making millions of dollars and are in no danger of having to beg on the street corner. This takes an extra week or so out of their time to play a game they presumably love, to help their country in a fun international tournament. I'm glad many players (Ryan Braun, Grady Sizemore, Dustin Pedroia, Derek Jeter, Chipper Jones, Joe Mauer, David Wright, Justin Morneau, Daisuke Matsuzaka, Ichiro Suzuki, Johan Santana, Geovany Soto, etc.) are willing to participate. Let's focus on the good guys and not the bad apples.
    I agree! Hitting shouldn't be a problem for Team USA. Pitching on the other hand...
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,924
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    Livelihood? These guys are making millions of dollars and are in no danger of having to beg on the street corner. This takes an extra week or so out of their time to play a game they presumably love, to help their country in a fun international tournament.
    I understand this view for the hitters, but with the wear and tear on pitchers' arms, the extra innings for the WBC are a risk to their big paydays. While it is true they make huge sums, they do have families to provide for, including their futures. The bottom line for pitchers is that pitching in the WBC isn't a sound financial decision--and the people who are putting on the tournament aren't doing it just for "fun"--they're interesting in making money. I can't blame pitchers for sitting this one out.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    21,773
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    I understand this view for the hitters, but with the wear and tear on pitchers' arms, the extra innings for the WBC are a risk to their big paydays. While it is true they make huge sums, they do have families to provide for, including their futures. The bottom line for pitchers is that pitching in the WBC isn't a sound financial decision--and the people who are putting on the tournament aren't doing it just for "fun"--they're interesting in making money. I can't blame pitchers for sitting this one out.
    Jim,

    Would you agree that moving the WBC to the end of the season is a better option?
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,924
    Blog Entries
    34
    Really, if they want this to be a rival to soccer's World Cup, they've got to be willing to stop the season for two weeks in summer and play it then. If the majors shortened the schedule to deal with this, then there would be far less reason for players to pass, barring the usual issues of injury or family issues (sick family members, etc). The end of the season is not any better from the wear and tear perspective of pitchers--only a commesurate reduction of the season can do that. Of course, I believe that for the forseeable future it is more likely pigs will learn to fly without wings than it is that this proposal will be adopted.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    North Alabama
    Posts
    353
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Really, if they want this to be a rival to soccer's World Cup, they've got to be willing to stop the season for two weeks in summer and play it then.
    This is something that annoys me...there's already a Baseball World Cup and has been, on and off, for nearly 50 years!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_World_Cup

    The WBC is completely redundant.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DaClyde View Post
    This is something that annoys me...there's already a Baseball World Cup and has been, on and off, for nearly 50 years!

    The WBC is completely redundant.
    Well, no. Teams often don't send their "A" squads to the Baseball World Cup. Japan sends amateurs instead of NPB stars. South Korea sends a hodgepodge of prospects, bench-warmers and guys on military service - they don't send Min-han Son, Seung-yeop Lee, Shin-Soo Choo and Hyun-jin Ryu. Mexico sends the best players who don't play winter ball - that is, guys who are usually average by Mexican League standards. Teams like the USA, Canada, the Netherlands, Panama and Australia usually send top prospects and/or experienced MLB'ers but not present stars - ex. Joey Votto played in 2005 and Evan Longoria in 2007. You don't see Chipper Jones, Justin Morneau, Jair Jurrjens, Carlos Lee or Grant Balfour in their primes.The only teams to send their "A" squads are those without MLB players (Germany, Spain, Thailand, etc.) and Cuba. Taiwan comes close but they are missing their active MLB players.

    The biggest edge the BWC has over the WBC is that you actually need to qualify - you don't just get picked by the MLB powers-that-be.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    21,773
    Quote Originally Posted by jalbright View Post
    Really, if they want this to be a rival to soccer's World Cup, they've got to be willing to stop the season for two weeks in summer and play it then. If the majors shortened the schedule to deal with this, then there would be far less reason for players to pass, barring the usual issues of injury or family issues (sick family members, etc). The end of the season is not any better from the wear and tear perspective of pitchers--only a commesurate reduction of the season can do that. Of course, I believe that for the forseeable future it is more likely pigs will learn to fly without wings than it is that this proposal will be adopted.
    I agree this is the best option. The major soccer leagues around the world halt their seasons for the world Cup. Two weeks might be what 12 games for MLB? Cutting the season back to 150-152 games wouldn't be the end of the world. And I agree that MLB will not stop the season anytime soon.
    Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist. Throw some ground balls - it's more democratic.-Crash Davis

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    464

    No need to shorten the season

    As I've said before when discussing stopping the season for the Olympics, there is no reason to shorten the season. MLB is married to the 162 schedule now, and won't go away from that. But, if they want to have the playoffs over sooner, and if they want to stop the season for 10 days or so for the Olympics, then every four frigging years schedule each team 5 or so double headers, however many it would take. Make them all, or half of them at least, day/night DH's, so the greedy owners can still make their gate money, but every four years that would be doable for Olympics, and the WBC if it needs to be in the middle. The end of the season won't work either. Guys have shut it down for too long to get back into playing shape for a potential two game tournament.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    southeastern PA
    Posts
    14,924
    Blog Entries
    34
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    As I've said before when discussing stopping the season for the Olympics, there is no reason to shorten the season. MLB is married to the 162 schedule now, and won't go away from that. But, if they want to have the playoffs over sooner, and if they want to stop the season for 10 days or so for the Olympics, then every four frigging years schedule each team 5 or so double headers, however many it would take. Make them all, or half of them at least, day/night DH's, so the greedy owners can still make their gate money, but every four years that would be doable for Olympics, and the WBC if it needs to be in the middle. The end of the season won't work either. Guys have shut it down for too long to get back into playing shape for a potential two game tournament.
    To save 10-12 games would take an extra 10-12 doubleheaders, and there's no chance the union will buy into it without a real carrot being given in exchange. The owners won't want to pay what it will take, so we're back to waiting for pigs to learn to fly.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    I agree this is the best option. The major soccer leagues around the world halt their seasons for the world Cup. Two weeks might be what 12 games for MLB? Cutting the season back to 150-152 games wouldn't be the end of the world. And I agree that MLB will not stop the season anytime soon.
    That's not true. The soccer world cup starts after the season has ended(2 months after or so).

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dominik View Post
    That's not true. The soccer world cup starts after the season has ended(2 months after or so).
    Actually it is true. You are referring only to the European season, but world soccer has more than just the European season. The European (domestic) football season generally runs from August to May with the Champions League starting in July. The 2006 World Cup which was held in Germany ran from June to July and so didn't really overlap with the European season (either with individual countries' domestic competitions or the inter-domestic competitions like the Champions League). However Africa's interdomestic competition in 2006 ran from to February to November. North America's interdomestic competition ran from July 2005 to April 2006 but the MLS 2006 season began in April 2006 and ended in November 2006. And then there is South America which is one of the strongest regions in world soccer along with Europe. The South American interdomestic Copa Libertadores competition in 2006 ran from January 2006 to August 2006 with a definite break in June/July for the 2006 FIFA World Cup. And the 2006 Brazilian domestic competition (Campeonato Brasileiro SÚrie A) ran from April 2006 to December 2006 with a definite suspension of the competition from June to early July for the FIFA World Cup.

    As Honus Wagner Rules and jalbright said, if the MLB is serious for the WBC to have even vague international recognition along the lines of the FIFA World Cup then the MLB has to do something differently. One can't have one's cake and eat it too. Either the MLB would have to take a break in the season and shorten it (like South America, Africa and the USA do for soccer and it's world cup) as Honus Wagner Rules and jalbright suggested or they go for double-headers once every four years to keep the same amount of games but in less time as Unit312J suggested. The only alternative to those proposals would be to try and imitate the Europeans with regards to soccer and have the WBC played after one season is finished and before a new season begins, however in that instance the MLB will again have to make choices - such as whether or not the WBC will even be played in the USA at the time since the only really free time would be late autumn or the whole of winter. If they schedule some double-headers then it might save days or even a couple of weeks which could allow a WBC to be held in North America from October to November (just barely - and Canada might not get any games) or in March. But October/November has problems as Unit312J pointed out and any of the proposed solutions (suspending the league for a few weeks in the middle of the league or using double headers to get some time in March) will not work unless the club owners feel sufficiently compensated. Even FIFA and UEFA now compensate European clubs for the potential injuries players may face in future World Cups. The other possibility would be to schedule it to be played elsewhere (Asia, elsewhere in the Americas, Europe, etc) so that it could be held in relation to another league (such as the NPB, etc) and be tailored around that league or those leagues and not have to worry that some games might end up being played in winter in North America. That won't work of course since the MLB will never be happy with that situation and thus it would end up replicating the Baseball World Cup in becoming insignificant.

    Speaking of the Baseball World Cup, it might be best if the next time the WBC and BWC fell on the same year they were simply merged. Perhaps the BWC could continue in some form as a strictly minor league tournament (Minor League World Cup or Minor League Championship or Baseball World Championship or something) in which all qualifying teams (including the European teams, Cuba and Taiwan) must be composed of minor leaguers and at most 2-3 top leaguers.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    796
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnC View Post
    Actually it is true. You are referring only to the European season, but world soccer has more than just the European season. The European (domestic) football season generally runs from August to May with the Champions League starting in July. The 2006 World Cup which was held in Germany ran from June to July and so didn't really overlap with the European season (either with individual countries' domestic competitions or the inter-domestic competitions like the Champions League). However Africa's interdomestic competition in 2006 ran from to February to November. North America's interdomestic competition ran from July 2005 to April 2006 but the MLS 2006 season began in April 2006 and ended in November 2006. And then there is South America which is one of the strongest regions in world soccer along with Europe. The South American interdomestic Copa Libertadores competition in 2006 ran from January 2006 to August 2006 with a definite break in June/July for the 2006 FIFA World Cup. And the 2006 Brazilian domestic competition (Campeonato Brasileiro SÚrie A) ran from April 2006 to December 2006 with a definite suspension of the competition from June to early July for the FIFA World Cup.

    As Honus Wagner Rules and jalbright said, if the MLB is serious for the WBC to have even vague international recognition along the lines of the FIFA World Cup then the MLB has to do something differently. One can't have one's cake and eat it too. Either the MLB would have to take a break in the season and shorten it (like South America, Africa and the USA do for soccer and it's world cup) as Honus Wagner Rules and jalbright suggested or they go for double-headers once every four years to keep the same amount of games but in less time as Unit312J suggested. The only alternative to those proposals would be to try and imitate the Europeans with regards to soccer and have the WBC played after one season is finished and before a new season begins, however in that instance the MLB will again have to make choices - such as whether or not the WBC will even be played in the USA at the time since the only really free time would be late autumn or the whole of winter. If they schedule some double-headers then it might save days or even a couple of weeks which could allow a WBC to be held in North America from October to November (just barely - and Canada might not get any games) or in March. But October/November has problems as Unit312J pointed out and any of the proposed solutions (suspending the league for a few weeks in the middle of the league or using double headers to get some time in March) will not work unless the club owners feel sufficiently compensated. Even FIFA and UEFA now compensate European clubs for the potential injuries players may face in future World Cups. The other possibility would be to schedule it to be played elsewhere (Asia, elsewhere in the Americas, Europe, etc) so that it could be held in relation to another league (such as the NPB, etc) and be tailored around that league or those leagues and not have to worry that some games might end up being played in winter in North America. That won't work of course since the MLB will never be happy with that situation and thus it would end up replicating the Baseball World Cup in becoming insignificant.

    Speaking of the Baseball World Cup, it might be best if the next time the WBC and BWC fell on the same year they were simply merged. Perhaps the BWC could continue in some form as a strictly minor league tournament (Minor League World Cup or Minor League Championship or Baseball World Championship or something) in which all qualifying teams (including the European teams, Cuba and Taiwan) must be composed of minor leaguers and at most 2-3 top leaguers.
    Not sure if this would change any of your ideas but Canada's three biggest baseball stadiums; Skydome, Olympic Stadium, and BC Place are all indoor stadiums with over 40,000 in seats. They have also all hosted MLB games. Outside of those three, the rest of Canada's stadiums in places like Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton, and my home city of Winnipeg and other places range from 10,000 to 8,000ish in size and all are outdoors.

  20. #20
    i agree with the fact that some players are making up excuses but it isnt just the american ones but more important, baseball isnt the only sport with this problem. Basketball and lesser known soccer. Players that go to the world cup get incentives to go. Granted it is not as much as a club would pay but i know they get paid, a friend of mine players for venezuelan sub 20 and and one call up for the venezuelan national soccer team and he said that the team was told if they qualify for the world cup 2010 they get 40,000 US dollars each. I am sure brazil, england, and other nations get better deals.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Las Vegas NV
    Posts
    3,076
    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    If I was them I wouldn't play either. Why should I jeopardize my career and lively hood playing in a series of exhibition games?? And, counting spring training, I am already devoting 7+ months to active participation in the game.
    And undoubtedly being paid very handsomely!! Wish I had a job that allowed me to work for just 7 or so months of the year and get as much money!! And also have the opportunity to represent my country!!

    As to when to hold it, it seems opinion is divided as to the merits of pre MLB season (has an effect on Spring Training, players are not ready for the rigors of a tournament etc), post MLB season (players are too tired from the long season and need a break), or Mid season (MLB will have to shorten the season or have more double headers, etc). Why not can the All Star break every 3 years and hold the WBC during that period? A few double headers could make up some lost time, but the break generally reserved for the All Star circus would provide extra game time for WBC without as much encroachment on the MLB season. And each 3 years the players would get the opportunity to play for their country in a meaningful competition rather than a 'pick-up' game where the teams are selected by the fans.
    Last edited by DownUnderDodger; 01-22-2009 at 08:48 PM.
    "A hot dog at the ballgame beats roast beef at the Ritz." ~Humphrey Bogart

    No matter how good you are, you're going to lose one-third of your games. No matter how bad you are you're going to win one-third of your games. It's the other third that makes the difference. ~Tommy Lasorda

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    1,394
    Blog Entries
    1
    As an American, I am disappointed some of the better American players who aren't injured and aren't concerned about making a team, refuse to play for the American team. All the Dominican players save Manny and those who are injured are playing for the DR as are the Puerto Ricans.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    As an American, I am disappointed some of the better American players who aren't injured and aren't concerned about making a team, refuse to play for the American team. All the Dominican players save Manny and those who are injured are playing for the DR as are the Puerto Ricans.

    Well as baseball players so of those Americans that you are disappointed in wouldn't have developed a desire for international competition anyway. After all, up until the 2006 WBC to play for the American national baseball team was really a step down from the major leagues and more of a recreational activity than serious business (for major leaguers). And unless these players also followed soccer or to a lesser extent basketball or maybe hockey then international play wouldn't really be a set feature in the sports they follow. It certainly isn't in American Football or NASCAR (the other two popular sports in the US). Out of the 6 most popular sports in the USA, only one (soccer) is really geared towards international play while in the rest most of the focus is on domestic play with some international competition playing second fiddle or with there being no international competition worthy of such a description. Puerto Ricans and Dominicans would generally have a different attitude to international play for varying reasons. For Puerto Ricans it may be about identity (as exemplified in Puerto Rico's competition internationally in sports and beauty contests - about the only venues where Puerto Rico gets differentiated from the US). For Dominicans it may be a desire by immigrants to identify with their country of origin. Plus in the DR the major sports would be baseball, followed by soccer and basketball so international play would be more common and expected. I don't see anything wrong with the attitude of the (non-Puerto Rican) Americans v. the attitude of the Puerto Ricans and Dominicans. The attitudes are just different due to circumstance. It would take more than just a couple editions of the WBC to get the overwhelming majority of American baseball players to take international play more seriously - perhaps by the fourth or fifth edition. The only other way I could think of would be for the MLB to promote the WBC as the pinnacle of baseball by ensuring the players would be paid far more than they would by playing for just their clubs and by elevating the WBC trophy as the height of success in baseball (above even the World Series)...and doing so repeatedly and publicly.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by DownUnderDodger View Post
    And undoubtedly being paid very handsomely!! Wish I had a job that allowed me to work for just 7 or so months of the year and get as much money!! And also have the opportunity to represent my country!!

    As to when to hold it, it seems opinion is divided as to the merits of pre MLB season (has an effect on Spring Training, players are not ready for the rigors of a tournament etc), post MLB season (players are too tired from the long season and need a break), or Mid season (MLB will have to shorten the season or have more double headers, etc). Why not can the All Star break every 3 years and hold the WBC during that period? A few double headers could make up some lost time, but the break generally reserved for the All Star circus would provide extra game time for WBC without as much encroachment on the MLB season. And each 3 years the players would get the opportunity to play for their country in a meaningful competition rather than a 'pick-up' game where the teams are selected by the fans.
    Considering that this WBC will be 3 years after the first one, this seems like a very good idea. The fact that the All-Star Break is also known as the "Midsummer Classic" also has a nice irony to it (simply transfer the "Midsummer Classic" epithet to the WBC and it will still ring true). Heck even having the same selection system might increase the popularity of the WBC and encourage more American baseball players to take it seriously (the fans picked you, so go play). But isn't the All-Star Break just a few days? This year's WBC is set to last 19 days (and the 2006 one lasted 18 days). With more teams in the future it would theoretically last longer. If the All-Star Break was used as the basis for the WBC then the MLB would probably need to schedule a break day before the Midsummer WBC and a break day afterwards for a total break of 21 days instead of the 3 days now used for the All-Star Break. I like the idea, but how many double headers would have be scheduled to get in the extra 18 days or more if the WBC is expanded?...unless the WBC proper is kept at 16 teams with the additional 8 teams playing in qualifying rounds outside the USA during the first half of the MLB season leading up to a July WBC.

  25. #25
    well right now the world series is more popular but that is because it receives as of right now more coverage and it is a american dominated sports. Sports coverage for baseball is mainly american, MLB.com, MLB network, Sunday night baseball. Much of latin american baseball is done by ESPN deportes. Japanese baseball relies on american TV coverage. This does not mean that baseball cannot become more international as the audience grows which i think will grow in 10 years and even begin to be accepted by Europe.

    now will the WBC be the highest honor of baseball? I dont think it it can because of coverage and players willing to play. For the world cup you cant pull some players off the team, even beckham will rather play for england instead of focusing on mainly money. so for established soccer star maybe winning a world cup is more accepting then club trophies.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •