Hoosier Girls Can Tryout for HS Hardball

[TG Coach]

But we're not in the 90's, or the 70's or the 40's.

Right now there must be equal number of teams.

In this economic environment there ARE spending limits. If you want girls baseball, and football, what gets cut? Some sport you don't happen to like?
And then of course we'd have to have equal number of teams so two boys sports would be added. Public schools can't run 10-15 sports per season for boys and girls. It's not possible.

There doesn't need to be an equal number of teams. There needs to be equal money spent. There are usually more female sports than male sports due to the cost of football. Our high school has twelve male and fourteen female sports.

[TG Coach]

But it could happen if the sports were funded by the players and their parents through fundraising and sponsorship... if budgets really are the issue.

I bet a lot of schools would have a hard time accepting even club football and baseball teams for girls... even if they paid for the sports themselves. Girls are still fighting just to try out for football and baseball teams. That has NOTHING to do with budgets.

In our state the high schools and the state athletic association don't have any juristiction over club sports. Girls may be fighting to try out for football and baseball, but I bet there aren't enough interested in most high schools to start a team.

[TG Coach]

Also, the economy going sour is something that hasn't existed for that long... so that can't be used as an excuse for what's been happening since the beginning of time.

I don't know what you call the beginning of time. I'll accept there have been changes due to Title IX. From this point forward there are budget issues. To raise the budget there's a requirement to raise taxes. Go start a campaign in your town to raise taxes for the purpose of starting girl's baseball and football plus two additional male sports. Come back in a while and give us the reaction. In a lot of high schools that are large there's another budget issue. There are only so many athletes.

[TG Coach]

But it could happen if the sports were funded by the players and their parents through fundraising and sponsorship

This is done all the time. They're called travel teams.

[metfan13]

There doesn't need to be an equal number of teams. There needs to be equal money spent. There are usually more female sports than male sports due to the cost of football. Our high school has twelve male and fourteen female sports.

OK, I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

So actually if a school added girls baseball and football, they may need to add 3 or more boys teams due to the cost of football?

[metfan13]

Then again, looking at my son's school system I don't know how they're balancing it given the number of students and the money it costs to run a V and JV football program.

Don't know how this balances with Title IX (from the systems website):

Fall: Football; JV Football; M-Cross Country; W-Cross Country; M-Soccer; M-JV Soccer; W-Tennis; W-Volleyball; W-JV Volleyball; Cheerleading; JV-Cheerleading; W-Golf

Winter: M-Basketball; M-JV Basketball; W-Basketball; W-JV Basketball; Swimming; Wrestling; Cheerleading; JV-Cheerleading; Indoor Track

Spring: Baseball; JV Baseball; W-Soccer; W-JV Soccer; W-Softball; W-JV Softball; M-Tennis; M-Golf; M-Track; W-Track

[NotAboutEgo]

The cost to create a girl's baseball team would be twice what you think. In order to create the team there would have to be equal spending on boy's sports. Title IX works both ways.

It appears you're demanding female sports teams where interest doesn't exist. I can't imagine there being enough girls in our high school interested in playing football. Besides, a lot of the best female athletes are playing on the ranked field hockey team. The high school sends a lot of field hockey players on to college.

When my daughter was in high school her softball team won four conference titles. Her sports senior class was declared the top four year run in the history of the high school. The entire starting team her senior year (five seniors that year) went on to college ball. I once asked a few if they would have been interested in baseball. None were.

You're awfully bitter in a world my daughter has found to be very gratifying. She lettered in four varsity sports (switched sports in winter after soph year) and plays a college sport (recruited in two sports).

You're not involved with women's baseball, so you don't have any idea of what's going on with it and how many females are interested in playing. And I'd bet that if girls' football was offered in schools, they'd have to make cuts from the tryouts.

Many females want to play baseball, and they won't accept anything as a substitute. It's about what people choose to do and not about what they *should* settle for.

The only thing I'm bitter about is the dominance of the male throughout history, and the continued thinking of some males that they have the right to dominate. It's such a lowly-evolved concept.

[NotAboutEgo]

In our state the high schools and the state athletic association don't have any juristiction over club sports. Girls may be fighting to try out for football and baseball, but I bet there aren't enough interested in most high schools to start a team.

I highly doubt that.

[NotAboutEgo]

I don't know what you call the beginning of time. I'll accept there have been changes due to Title IX. From this point forward there are budget issues. To raise the budget there's a requirement to raise taxes. Go start a campaign in your town to raise taxes for the purpose of starting girl's baseball and football plus two additional male sports. Come back in a while and give us the reaction. In a lot of high schools that are large there's another budget issue. There are only so many athletes.

The beginning of time is the beginning of sporting competition amongst humans.

So, I ask you this... how differently do you think the picture would be now, if females had been allowed to play sports since the inception of sporting competition and the inception of sporting competition in schools and colleges?

I KNOW the picture would be COMPLETELY different.

[metfan13]

The beginning of time is the beginning of sporting competition amongst humans.

So, I ask you this... how differently do you think the picture would be now, if females had been allowed to play sports since the inception of sporting competition and the inception of sporting competition in schools and colleges?

I KNOW the picture would be COMPLETELY different.

Some other sports might not be played at HS level so some different sports could be played.

I'll agree that if things had been even, for opportunities, from the beginning that you'd have a girls baseball and boys baseball (like basketball) instead of softball.

Don't know about football or what it would replace. Takes a lot of money, equipment, insurance to have football. Something else would have to go.

[NotAboutEgo]

Some other sports might not be played at HS level so some different sports could be played.

I'll agree that if things had been even, for opportunities, from the beginning that you'd have a girls baseball and boys baseball (like basketball) instead of softball.

Don't know about football or what it would replace. Takes a lot of money, equipment, insurance to have football. Something else would have to go.

But, if girls were allowed to play football and any other sport from the beginning, there would be H.S. teams and leagues. It would be up to each school to pick and choose which sports they offer, and that would be based in part on interest and budget... so there could be a difference between which sports are offered for girls and for boys at each school. But, the bottom line is, H.S. football and baseball would exist for girls, and other sports would exist for boys that don't currently exist.

It also takes a lot of money... maybe more than football, considering the high cost of ice time... equipment, and insurance to have H.S. ice hockey teams, but they exist all over the place in cold weather climates... for both girls and boys.

[metfan13]

But, if girls were allowed to play football and any other sport from the beginning, there would be H.S. teams and leagues. It would be up to each school to pick and choose which sports they offer, and that would be based in part on interest and budget... so there could be a difference between which sports are offered for girls and for boys at each school. But, the bottom line is, H.S. football and baseball would exist for girls, and other sports would exist for boys that don't currently exist.

It also takes a lot of money... maybe more than football, considering the high cost of ice time... equipment, and insurance to have H.S. ice hockey teams, but they exist all over the place in cold weather climates... for both girls and boys.

No, these are generally done by school districts, not school by school. At least not around here. Hockey is a more regional sport.

[NotAboutEgo]

No, these are generally done by school districts, not school by school. At least not around here. Hockey is a more regional sport.

A lot of school districts (the rural ones... like my alma mater and the rest in the school's conference) only have one H.S. in them, so in those cases, the sports are chosen by the school.

It doesn't matter if hockey is a more regional sport. The point is that it could be even more expensive than football is, yet a lot of schools in cold weather states have it. Therefore, regardless of how expensive it is, the schools support it.

[metfan13]

A lot of school districts (the rural ones... like my alma mater and the rest in the school's conference) only have one H.S. in them, so in those cases, the sports are chosen by the school.

It doesn't matter if hockey is a more regional sport. The point is that it could be even more expensive than football is, yet a lot of schools in cold weather states have it. Therefore, regardless of how expensive it is, the schools support it.

And what else don't they have?

Again, everyone can't have everything.

We're in a large school district that covers a good sized city and surrounding area. Schools are in affluent neighborhoods and poor neighborhoods. The same sports are offered at all schools, though some schools don't have enough players for some JV teams.

[NotAboutEgo]

And what else don't they have?

Again, everyone can't have everything.

I don't understand these questions and how they relate to what I said.

We're in a large school district that covers a good sized city and surrounding area. Schools are in affluent neighborhoods and poor neighborhoods. The same sports are offered at all schools, though some schools don't have enough players for some JV teams.

Not all school districts are that large. So, in some cases, the school districts choose the sports. In other cases, where the districts are small, only one school chooses the sport. So... what is the whole point of stating who chooses sports for schools?

[metfan13]

Well you do need an opponent. So some consistency in an area is helpful.

But my other point came back to the fact that funds are limited. To have the expensive sports something else will have to go. Add a girl's football team, assuming there are 30 or more interested girls at a school and something else will have to be dropped.

[NotAboutEgo]

Well you do need an opponent. So some consistency in an area is helpful.

Of course... but not every school in a conference offers the exact same sports. My alma mater doesn't off all the sports that other schools in the conference offer.

But my other point came back to the fact that funds are limited. To have the expensive sports something else will have to go. Add a girl's football team, assuming there are 30 or more interested girls at a school and something else will have to be dropped.

Maybe in some cases that's true, but I don't see it being true in all cases... or at least we can't speculate that it's the case with every school in the country. I'm sure there are some schools out there that could/are willing to find the money.

[metfan13]

And maybe it becomes a niche sport like lacrosse. Played in some areas where funding is not an issue. That doesn't help in the rest of the country.

[NotAboutEgo]

And maybe it becomes a niche sport like lacrosse. Played in some areas where funding is not an issue. That doesn't help in the rest of the country.

Perhaps, but is that a reason to do nothing at all about it, if enough girls want to play? That's very anti-progressive. Over time, the sport would grow.

Where I live, there are a lot of wealthy school districts. Their campuses look more like 5-star resorts than high school campuses. Even the not-so-wealthy ones pay their teachers handsomely (I know one personally who used to play on my women's team, and she was pulling down $80,000/yr... and that was at least 5 years ago), so there is some money floating around. One of my mom's best friends is a teacher in the Detroit Public School System... a very poor and dilapidated district. She makes $50,000+ as a teacher there.

I remember when I was a kid... 8 or 9 years old. Soccer wasn't a popular sport for anyone in the country. My school district started a soccer program, starting with the elementary students. Now, soccer is very popular amongst high schools kids and younger kids throughout the country. The money had to have come from somewhere to build the programs and soccer fields.

[metfan13]

Perhaps, but is that a reason to do nothing at all about it, if enough girls want to play? That's very anti-progressive. Over time, the sport would grow.

Where I live, there are a lot of wealthy school districts. Their campuses look more like 5-star resorts than high school campuses. Even the not-so-wealthy ones pay their teachers handsomely (I know one personally who used to play on my women's team, and she was pulling down $80,000/yr... and that was at least 5 years ago), so there is some money floating around. One of my mom's best friends is a teacher in the Detroit Public School System... a very poor and dilapidated district. She makes $50,000+ as a teacher there.

I remember when I was a kid... 8 or 9 years old. Soccer wasn't a popular sport for anyone in the country. My school district started a soccer program, starting with the elementary students. Now, soccer is very popular amongst high schools kids and younger kids throughout the country. The money had to have come from somewhere to build the programs and soccer fields.

Soccer is also relatively inexpensive to run as a program.

Also, sports like soccer can grow from rec leagues which there are more of than football due to costs.

[metfan13]

Also, sports like soccer took off because people who love the sport started leagues for young kids to play. Schools offered it when there was a demand.

My high school didn't have soccer (all those many years ago), now it does.

[TG Coach]

The beginning of time is the beginning of sporting competition amongst humans.

So, I ask you this... how differently do you think the picture would be now, if females had been allowed to play sports since the inception of sporting competition and the inception of sporting competition in schools and colleges?

I KNOW the picture would be COMPLETELY different.

It would look quite like it does. Many wouldn't have played in the past since it wouldn't appear lady like (based on many other situations in society forty, fifty years ago).

[TG Coach]

It would be up to each school to pick and choose which sports they offer, and that would be based in part on interest and budget

The more you post the more you demonstrate a lack of understanding of high school sports. Schools don't just need teams. They need conferences to play in. That's why you see mostly the same sports across the board by region.

[coach scotty]

In our youth football league we actively recruit girls to play and so do many other teams in the league. At most we might get three and that's rare. Two or three times since I've been involved in the league (about 15 years) we have tried to form an all girls league just in case it brought more participation. It never did. The team with the largest population of players to pull from ( a town of about 50,000) only got 7 signed up for one age group most only got 0-2. So I would have to say the interest being described isn't there for football, maybe baseball, but not football.

As for title IX its not just equal spending but equal participation based on enrollment. It's not about how many teams you have but the percentage of athletes vs student enrollment. So if you have a school of 1000 kids, 500 boys, and 500 girls and 100 boys play football then you have to offer enough female sports to cover 100 athletes IF there is interest (which is about 5 sports). Before title IX my old high school had football, basketball, and baseball for boys and basketball and softball for girls. Now it has football, basketball, and baseball for boys and volleyball, soccer, tennis, golf, cross country, basketball, and softball for girls. Now does this provide more opportunities for the girls YES but it destroys their ability to compete. This is a school of 400 so you can imagine how the talent is spread out. The problem is it's a football town and 94 of the 187 boys enrolled this year played football.

[RightEGirl]

And I'd bet that if girls' football was offered in schools, they'd have to make cuts from the tryouts.

There aren't enough butch dikes in our high school for a football team.

TG Coach,

I read a lot, and listen a lot to what you, Not About Ego, and Metfan have to say, trying to see both sides of the issue. I have strong feeling about promoting women in non-traditional athletic programs, but I feel like I can listen and learn in areas of Title IX I may not fully understand. HOWEVER, this quote above is off-base, mean-spirited and offensive. Please remove it immediately or edit your response. Spirited argument and polite dissension is a good thing, but when it turns discriminatory, it turns ugly, and when it turns ugly, it also turns stupid. I doubt you're stupid from the content of many of your responses, but I think this quote was a mistake that you should deal with quickly.

Thanks,

Tiff