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Thread: 2013 World Baseball Classic

  1. #51
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    The SABU (South African Baseball Union) doesn't have a website at the moment, although I have been told that one is currently being created

    There is a provincial tournament for seniors in South Africa, although I don't know the details of it this year- there aren't many regularly updated websites and so it's hard to keep track of what's going on

    MikeSA would be the person to ask for details on here, as he is a pitcher for the South African national team

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  2. #52
    I know this sounds crazy, but there is a way you can get an extra Latin American country into the tourney. I know this probably won't happen, but here goes. Disband the Puerto Rican national team and integrate it into the USA national team, I mean PR is technically a US commenwealth. If Aruban and Curacao players play for the Netherlands and Aruba and Curacao are independent countries then imo Puerto Ricans who are born with American citizenship should play for the US. This would open up a spot for a country like Columbia or Nicaragua and if the tournament expands you can add one of those countries in the expansion. I know alot of fans of Puerto Rico would be upset but truthfully it makes sense and you'll get enough Puerto Rican players to play for the US. I also think it'll make the US a more diverse team.
    The 27 Time World Series Champions New York Yankees!

  3. #53
    I just wanted to give a shout out to Bokke for that thoughtful and thorough proposal for a 2013 format. I haven't had time to analyze it, but it looks intriguing. Nice work.

  4. #54
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    ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  5. #55
    I think they need to work on the work outs for teams next time around

  6. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx1971 View Post
    ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.
    I'm not sure how popular the idea would be with the ex-Soviet Sattelite States. I know i'm not in favour of ANY countries joining to form an 'all-star' team outside of the traditional ones (Great Britain, Trinidad & Tobago etc) especially if there is no history of them doing it in sports elsewhere

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx1971 View Post
    ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.
    I doubt it. Germany has finished 4th in the past two European Championships and has put up strong efforts against countries like Canada and Cuba. The Ukraine is the only former USSR country other than Russia to even make the 2007 Euros and Russia didn't even qualify for 2009. There are no ex-USSR athletes who are anywhere close to someone like Kai Gronauer in terms of talent.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    I'm not sure how popular the idea would be with the ex-Soviet Sattelite States. I know i'm not in favour of ANY countries joining to form an 'all-star' team outside of the traditional ones (Great Britain, Trinidad & Tobago etc) especially if there is no history of them doing it in sports elsewhere

    Sian xx
    In Baseball: Great Britain + Trinidad + Tobago = Great Britain because in baseball Trinidad + Tobago = 0
    Ukraine + Russia = 2 Ukraine (or 2 Russia)
    In baseball Ukraine = Great Britain, Russia = Germany

    Look at Euro'2001 & Euro'2003 (links from old site):
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2001.html
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2003.html

    Russia win over Netherlands in 2001 in preliminary round:
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

    Russia ALWAYS win over Germany

    (Russia + Ukraine + Belarus) > Italy (if in Italian team will play was born in Italy)
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    I doubt it. Germany has finished 4th in the past two European Championships and has put up strong efforts against countries like Canada and Cuba. The Ukraine is the only former USSR country other than Russia to even make the 2007 Euros and Russia didn't even qualify for 2009. There are no ex-USSR athletes who are anywhere close to someone like Kai Gronauer in terms of talent.
    Kai Gronauer - who is it?
    Look at this
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

    Russian guys hit 2 homerun on R.Cordemans !!!
    Kai Gronauer? Where he play?

    Russian & Ukraine have BIGGEST not used potential.
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  10. #60
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    lol sorry that wasn't entirely clear of me- I didn't mean Great Britain AND Trinidad & Tobago form a team, they were just two examples of teams made from more than one country that I would accept because of historical reasons

    Just squeezing two or more countries together for no other reason than to make them more competitive doesn't really cut it with me

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  11. #61
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    Russia didn't even qualify for 2009 because Russian lose Greek 5:0
    (American picher have no-hitter)
    Such Greek (where play only yankee) team in 2003:
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2003.html
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx1971 View Post
    Kai Gronauer - who is it?
    Look at this
    http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

    Russian guys hit 2 homerun on R.Cordemans !!!
    Kai Gronauer? Where he play?
    Kai Gronauer is a German catcher who signed a 2-year minor league deal with the New York Mets back in 2008

    He played for the GCL Mets in his first minor league season, hitting .356/.408/.378 in 16 games

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    Just squeezing two or more countries together for no other reason than to make them more competitive doesn't really cut it with me

    Sian xx
    squeezing Russia+Ukraine+Belarus - it's second (or third) team in Eurobaseball and candidate on WBC'2013 or WBC'2017
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    Kai Gronauer is a German catcher who signed a 2-year minor league deal with the New York Mets back in 2008

    He played for the GCL Mets in his first minor league season, hitting .356/.408/.378 in 16 games

    Sian xx
    But it's or "A" or Rookie League
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  15. #65
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    The GCL is rookie-level baseball, it's the first step on the long road to the Major Leagues- it's certainly an improvement over the general talent level of German or Russian domestic baseball

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    The GCL is rookie-level baseball, it's the first step on the long road to the Major Leagues- it's certainly an improvement over the general talent level of German or Russian domestic baseball

    Sian xx
    OK. But this guy - 1.
    Look at these page:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Moscow
    Oleg Korneev, Lobanov Bros, Vasiliev
    Vasiliev pitch about 94 mph
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx1971 View Post
    OK. But this guy - 1.
    Look at these page:
    http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Moscow
    Oleg Korneev, Lobanov Bros, Vasiliev
    Vasiliev pitch about 94 mph
    Korneev's minor league career doesn't look any better than the Germans in the US like Jennell Hudson and Tim Henkenjohann. Vasiliev never even played in the minors, unlike the best German catchers (Gronauer and Simon Guhring).

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    Vasiliev never even played in the minors, unlike the best German catchers (Gronauer and Simon Guhring).
    Special for you: Russia - Germany - 7:2 (last their match, copy from CEB site):
    http://www.baseball.in.ua/nat/eu200509.htm

    GUHRING & GRONAUER play in this match !!!
    Are you have another question ?

    Germany ALWAYS lose to Russia
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  19. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Alexx1971 View Post
    Special for you: Russia - Germany - 7:2 (last their match, copy frov CEB site):
    http://www.baseball.in.ua/nat/eu200509.htm

    GUHRING & GRONAUER play in this match !!!
    Are you have another question ?
    Yeah, I do.

    If that were the WBC, 3 MLBers born in Germany would most likely be playing (all sucessful, sold MLers too): INF Jeff Baker, P Will Ohman, and P Edwin Jackson. There is NO way a Russian team would score 7 runs off Jackson or Ohman

  20. #70
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    If ex-USSR countries will play united team, - indifferent who will pitched in Germany (Jackson or Ohman).
    Germany will loser
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  21. #71
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    How close is Germany to competing internationally at a high level?

  22. #72
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    Miller (citizen the Germany) headed in CEB 2005, and Germany grow in baseball again.
    Are you know about level the baseball in Russian and Ukraine ?
    We lose NOW ( Russian or Ukraine) to Germany but united team win Germany.

    In our countries the officials steal too much

    If MLB (or MILB) would put(invest) money at Ukrainian and Russian baseball, in some years the quantity Russian and Ukrainian players in MLB would be more, than all Europeans together.
    Last edited by Alexx1971; 03-19-2009 at 11:50 PM.
    Ukrainian Baseball: www.baseball.in.ua

  23. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by SupCompleteNerds View Post
    Oh, so is it on a set schedule or is it just randomly picked years?
    It is on a set schedule starting with this year. From now on it will be every 4 years, so 2013, 2017, etc.

  24. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    I had the following idea on a format for a 24-team WBC in 2013....it's kind of just me thinking aloud, so apologies if it gets confusing lol
    You’re not kidding about the confusing part... I'm not sure the WBC Steering Committee will use such a format. I can see the following format being used. Round 1 would consist of the “minnows” and some mid-tier teams. The top two teams advance to Round 2 and join two of the top eight from the 2009 WBC.

    Round 1
    Group A
    China
    Philippines
    Spain
    Taiwan

    Group B
    Australia
    Czech Republic
    Nicaragua
    South Africa

    Group C
    Colombia
    Dominican Republic
    Germany
    Panama

    Group D
    Brazil
    Canada
    Great Britain
    Italy
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Assuming the group favorites advanced: (One 2009 WBC Semi-Finalist in each group)
    Round 2
    Group 1
    Japan
    Netherlands
    Group A Winner & Runner-up:
    China
    Taiwan

    Group 2
    Cuba
    South Korea
    Group B Winner & Runner-up:
    Australia
    Nicaragua

    Group 3
    Puerto Rico
    USA
    Group C Winner & Runner-up:
    Panama
    Dominican Republic

    Group 4
    Mexico
    Venezuela
    Group D Winner & Runner-up:
    Canada
    Italy

    The rest of the tournament would follow the previous format.

    I would also like to see pool play instead of double elimination.
    Here is an idea from a previous post of mine:

    The following doesn’t deviate too much from the previous format: In a pool of four teams the three way tie is the problem. Let’s look at the only the two 3-way tie scenarios possible, from the 2006 WBC. Both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

    PHP Code:
    1)Pool B        Tiebreaker
       Mexico 2
    -1    1-11.59 RA/9
       USA    2
    -1    1-14.00 RA/9
       Canada 2
    -1    1-17.50 RA/9
       RSA    0
    -
    The team with the lowest Runs Allowed per 9 innings (RA/9), in this case, Mexico advances to the next round, but a tiebreaker game where the USA hosts Canada is played to determine the second berth. This format wouldn’t take more than 7 games and every team would play each other. The other scenario is more complicated, because there is only one berth available.

    PHP Code:
    2)Pool 1          Tiebreaker
       Korea   3
    -0
       Japan   1
    -2    1-12.50 RA/9
       USA     1
    -2    1-12.64 RA/9
       Mexico  1
    -2    1-13.50 RA/
    In this case Mexico would be eliminated, because it has the highest RA/9, therefore Japan hosts the USA in a tiebreaker game to advance to the next round. Again, this format wouldn’t take more than 7 games and every team would play each other. There is a double standard, but remember a team with a winning record will only be eliminated on the field and a team with a losing record can be eliminated by a formula.
    Last edited by NewEnglandAmazins; 03-20-2009 at 05:30 PM.

  25. #75
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    The system NEA describes here is the logical way to break the three-way ties in a four-team round-robin pool.

    Quote Originally Posted by spark240 View Post
    I'm starting to think it would have made more sense to stick with straight round-robin, plus a formula for adding a single (seventh) tiebreaker game in each pool.
    The arguments against this which occur to me are,

    1. There is still a statistical formula which announcers and writers will have to repeatedly explain to viewers and readers. In short, this annoys people and drives away casual fans. The double-elimination bracket diagram may have looked a little complicated to some, but at least it could be drawn. You can't draw the round-robin plus RA/9 ranking and tiebreaker.

    2. Why is it RA/9? Why is allowing fewer runs more important than scoring more runs, or any other measure?

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