2013 World Baseball Classic

[Sweet_Bokke]

The SABU (South African Baseball Union) doesn't have a website at the moment, although I have been told that one is currently being created

There is a provincial tournament for seniors in South Africa, although I don't know the details of it this year- there aren't many regularly updated websites and so it's hard to keep track of what's going on

MikeSA would be the person to ask for details on here, as he is a pitcher for the South African national team

Sian xx

[Yankeefan90]

I know this sounds crazy, but there is a way you can get an extra Latin American country into the tourney. I know this probably won't happen, but here goes. Disband the Puerto Rican national team and integrate it into the USA national team, I mean PR is technically a US commenwealth. If Aruban and Curacao players play for the Netherlands and Aruba and Curacao are independent countries then imo Puerto Ricans who are born with American citizenship should play for the US. This would open up a spot for a country like Columbia or Nicaragua and if the tournament expands you can add one of those countries in the expansion. I know alot of fans of Puerto Rico would be upset but truthfully it makes sense and you'll get enough Puerto Rican players to play for the US. I also think it'll make the US a more diverse team.

[Rally Monkey]

I just wanted to give a shout out to Bokke for that thoughtful and thorough proposal for a 2013 format. I haven't had time to analyze it, but it looks intriguing. Nice work.

[Alexx1971]

ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.

[Americanoutlaw2.0]

I think they need to work on the work outs for teams next time around

[Sweet_Bokke]

ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.

I'm not sure how popular the idea would be with the ex-Soviet Sattelite States. I know i'm not in favour of ANY countries joining to form an 'all-star' team outside of the traditional ones (Great Britain, Trinidad & Tobago etc) especially if there is no history of them doing it in sports elsewhere

Sian xx

[Mischa]

ex-USSR(Ukraine, Russia, Belarus etc.) coutries can make 1 team. And this team will stronger than Germany.

I doubt it. Germany has finished 4th in the past two European Championships and has put up strong efforts against countries like Canada and Cuba. The Ukraine is the only former USSR country other than Russia to even make the 2007 Euros and Russia didn't even qualify for 2009. There are no ex-USSR athletes who are anywhere close to someone like Kai Gronauer in terms of talent.

[Alexx1971]

I'm not sure how popular the idea would be with the ex-Soviet Sattelite States. I know i'm not in favour of ANY countries joining to form an 'all-star' team outside of the traditional ones (Great Britain, Trinidad & Tobago etc) especially if there is no history of them doing it in sports elsewhere

Sian xx

In Baseball: Great Britain + Trinidad + Tobago = Great Britain because in baseball Trinidad + Tobago = 0
Ukraine + Russia = 2 Ukraine (or 2 Russia)
In baseball Ukraine = Great Britain, Russia = Germany

Look at Euro'2001 & Euro'2003 (links from old site):
http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2001.html
http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2003.html

Russia win over Netherlands in 2001 in preliminary round:
http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

Russia ALWAYS win over Germany

(Russia + Ukraine + Belarus) > Italy (if in Italian team will play was born in Italy)

[Alexx1971]

I doubt it. Germany has finished 4th in the past two European Championships and has put up strong efforts against countries like Canada and Cuba. The Ukraine is the only former USSR country other than Russia to even make the 2007 Euros and Russia didn't even qualify for 2009. There are no ex-USSR athletes who are anywhere close to someone like Kai Gronauer in terms of talent.

Kai Gronauer - who is it?
Look at this
http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

Russian guys hit 2 homerun on R.Cordemans !!!
Kai Gronauer? Where he play?

Russian & Ukraine have BIGGEST not used potential.

[Sweet_Bokke]

lol sorry that wasn't entirely clear of me- I didn't mean Great Britain AND Trinidad & Tobago form a team, they were just two examples of teams made from more than one country that I would accept because of historical reasons

Just squeezing two or more countries together for no other reason than to make them more competitive doesn't really cut it with me

Sian xx

[Alexx1971]

Russia didn't even qualify for 2009 because Russian lose Greek 5:0
(American picher have no-hitter)
Such Greek (where play only yankee) team in 2003:
http://current.baseballeurope.com/history/esa2003.html

[Sweet_Bokke]

Kai Gronauer - who is it?
Look at this
http://current.baseballeurope.com/hi...s/eu200110.htm

Russian guys hit 2 homerun on R.Cordemans !!!
Kai Gronauer? Where he play?

Kai Gronauer is a German catcher who signed a 2-year minor league deal with the New York Mets back in 2008

He played for the GCL Mets in his first minor league season, hitting .356/.408/.378 in 16 games

Sian xx

[Alexx1971]

Just squeezing two or more countries together for no other reason than to make them more competitive doesn't really cut it with me

Sian xx

squeezing Russia+Ukraine+Belarus - it's second (or third) team in Eurobaseball and candidate on WBC'2013 or WBC'2017

[Alexx1971]

Kai Gronauer is a German catcher who signed a 2-year minor league deal with the New York Mets back in 2008

He played for the GCL Mets in his first minor league season, hitting .356/.408/.378 in 16 games

Sian xx

But it's or "A" or Rookie League

[Sweet_Bokke]

The GCL is rookie-level baseball, it's the first step on the long road to the Major Leagues- it's certainly an improvement over the general talent level of German or Russian domestic baseball

Sian xx

[Alexx1971]

The GCL is rookie-level baseball, it's the first step on the long road to the Major Leagues- it's certainly an improvement over the general talent level of German or Russian domestic baseball

Sian xx

OK. But this guy - 1.
Look at these page:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Moscow
Oleg Korneev, Lobanov Bros, Vasiliev
Vasiliev pitch about 94 mph

[Mischa]

OK. But this guy - 1.
Look at these page:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/bullpen/Moscow
Oleg Korneev, Lobanov Bros, Vasiliev
Vasiliev pitch about 94 mph

Korneev's minor league career doesn't look any better than the Germans in the US like Jennell Hudson and Tim Henkenjohann. Vasiliev never even played in the minors, unlike the best German catchers (Gronauer and Simon Guhring).

[Alexx1971]

Vasiliev never even played in the minors, unlike the best German catchers (Gronauer and Simon Guhring).

Special for you: Russia - Germany - 7:2 (last their match, copy from CEB site):
http://www.baseball.in.ua/nat/eu200509.htm

GUHRING & GRONAUER play in this match !!!
Are you have another question ?

Germany ALWAYS lose to Russia

[chicagofan71]

Special for you: Russia - Germany - 7:2 (last their match, copy frov CEB site):
http://www.baseball.in.ua/nat/eu200509.htm

GUHRING & GRONAUER play in this match !!!
Are you have another question ?

Yeah, I do.

If that were the WBC, 3 MLBers born in Germany would most likely be playing (all sucessful, sold MLers too): INF Jeff Baker, P Will Ohman, and P Edwin Jackson. There is NO way a Russian team would score 7 runs off Jackson or Ohman

[Alexx1971]

If ex-USSR countries will play united team, - indifferent who will pitched in Germany (Jackson or Ohman).
Germany will loser

[Richard]

How close is Germany to competing internationally at a high level?

[Alexx1971]

Miller (citizen the Germany) headed in CEB 2005, and Germany grow in baseball again.
Are you know about level the baseball in Russian and Ukraine ?
We lose NOW ( Russian or Ukraine) to Germany but united team win Germany.

In our countries the officials steal too much

If MLB (or MILB) would put(invest) money at Ukrainian and Russian baseball, in some years the quantity Russian and Ukrainian players in MLB would be more, than all Europeans together.

[Shootmaster_44]

Oh, so is it on a set schedule or is it just randomly picked years?

It is on a set schedule starting with this year. From now on it will be every 4 years, so 2013, 2017, etc.

[NewEnglandAmazins]

I had the following idea on a format for a 24-team WBC in 2013....it's kind of just me thinking aloud, so apologies if it gets confusing lol

You’re not kidding about the confusing part... I'm not sure the WBC Steering Committee will use such a format. I can see the following format being used. Round 1 would consist of the “minnows” and some mid-tier teams. The top two teams advance to Round 2 and join two of the top eight from the 2009 WBC.

Round 1
Group A
China
Philippines
Spain
Taiwan

Group B
Australia
Czech Republic
Nicaragua
South Africa

Group C
Colombia
Dominican Republic
Germany
Panama

Group D
Brazil
Canada
Great Britain
Italy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Assuming the group favorites advanced: (One 2009 WBC Semi-Finalist in each group)
Round 2
Group 1
Japan
Netherlands
Group A Winner & Runner-up:
China
Taiwan

Group 2
Cuba
South Korea
Group B Winner & Runner-up:
Australia
Nicaragua

Group 3
Puerto Rico
USA
Group C Winner & Runner-up:
Panama
Dominican Republic

Group 4
Mexico
Venezuela
Group D Winner & Runner-up:
Canada
Italy

The rest of the tournament would follow the previous format.

I would also like to see pool play instead of double elimination.
Here is an idea from a previous post of mine:

The following doesn’t deviate too much from the previous format: In a pool of four teams the three way tie is the problem. Let’s look at the only the two 3-way tie scenarios possible, from the 2006 WBC. Both are at opposite ends of the spectrum.

1)Pool B        Tiebreaker
   Mexico 2-1    1-1, 1.59 RA/9
   USA    2-1    1-1, 4.00 RA/9
   Canada 2-1    1-1, 7.50 RA/9
   RSA    0-3 

The team with the lowest Runs Allowed per 9 innings (RA/9), in this case, Mexico advances to the next round, but a tiebreaker game where the USA hosts Canada is played to determine the second berth. This format wouldn’t take more than 7 games and every team would play each other. The other scenario is more complicated, because there is only one berth available.

2)Pool 1          Tiebreaker
   Korea   3-0
   Japan   1-2    1-1, 2.50 RA/9
   USA     1-2    1-1, 2.64 RA/9
   Mexico  1-2    1-1, 3.50 RA/9 

In this case Mexico would be eliminated, because it has the highest RA/9, therefore Japan hosts the USA in a tiebreaker game to advance to the next round. Again, this format wouldn’t take more than 7 games and every team would play each other. There is a double standard, but remember a team with a winning record will only be eliminated on the field and a team with a losing record can be eliminated by a formula.

[Pere]

The system NEA describes here is the logical way to break the three-way ties in a four-team round-robin pool.

I'm starting to think it would have made more sense to stick with straight round-robin, plus a formula for adding a single (seventh) tiebreaker game in each pool.

The arguments against this which occur to me are,

1. There is still a statistical formula which announcers and writers will have to repeatedly explain to viewers and readers. In short, this annoys people and drives away casual fans. The double-elimination bracket diagram may have looked a little complicated to some, but at least it could be drawn. You can't draw the round-robin plus RA/9 ranking and tiebreaker.

2. Why is it RA/9? Why is allowing fewer runs more important than scoring more runs, or any other measure?