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Thread: 2013 World Baseball Classic

  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by quinnystar27 View Post
    You look at china that really started their baseball program not to long ago, but after MLB poured money into them they became a emerging power.
    MLB built a baseball power in China?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    For whatever reason the single-elimination game doesn't seem to be all that popular in the USA, but the point of the WBC seems to be spreading international baseball around the globe so I'd rather put that in instead of two rounds of double-elimination
    USAmericans love a knockout tournament. It's baseball that doesn't fit the knockout well. MLB teams now use five starting pitchers in rotation, colleges three, and small boys two. Only the kiddies in some locales routinely rotate multiple pitchers thru the game. Knockout baseball is too much of which pitcher has the best stuff and endurance today.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    For whatever reason the single-elimination game doesn't seem to be all that popular in the USA, but the point of the WBC seems to be spreading international baseball around the globe so I'd rather put that in instead of two rounds of double-elimination
    Not so. One of the most popular sports tournment in the USA--the college and university basketball tournament--is single-elimination with a field of 64 teams. People in the States love that format.

    And the professional American football playoff tournament is single-elimination too. And it's the most popular sportig event in the country.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    ......the eight legit baseball countries that aren't already in the Classic are Germany, Czech Republic, Spain, Philippines, Thailand, Brazil, Colombia, and especially Nicaragua. Those countries compete in international competitions already, they're all in the top 25 of the IBAF World Rankings (with the exception of Thailand, which is 26), and (again with the exception of Thailand) they each have a pretty well-developed club league. I'm sure we can quibble with some of these at the margins, but it's pretty clear. After the top-25, it all falls off pretty dramatically.

    Plus, these countries are pretty widely dispersed. Not too many Euro countries, not too many American. What's not to like?
    And with Colombia and Nicaragua at least they could have teams augmented by MLB players. I think there would be two eligible Nicaraguans from the MLB and maybe a handful (four or five) eligible Colombians. I would expect the Philippines and Thailand to easily be the weakest teams of the tournament if they were picked for 2013 though and unless there is massive improvement between now and 2013 I wouldn't expect to see them pass the the preliminary round.....

  4. #124
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    I e-mailed Dr. Schiller on the IBAF site asking which countries may be added by 2013? He responded by not knowing yet which countries will be added, but said that discussions are the following: at least three from Latin America, possibly three from Europe, one from Asia and one from Africa.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post


    USAmericans love a knockout tournament. It's baseball that doesn't fit the knockout well. MLB teams now use five starting pitchers in rotation, colleges three, and small boys two. Only the kiddies in some locales routinely rotate multiple pitchers thru the game. Knockout baseball is too much of which pitcher has the best stuff and endurance today.
    Sorry I should have made it a bit clearer- I was talking about baseball specifically, which as you mention does have the issue of a 'pitching rotation' which doesn't make it ideal for knockout baseball

    However, I do feel that having knockout baseball after the initial group stage of the WBC is a good idea that adds a further degree of strategy and team management to the mix- which starting pitcher will the manager go with for the first knockout game, then any potential games after that?

    I'm not worried about pitchers missing out on playing past the first knockout if their team gets eliminated- they are big boys after all and will get over it in time

    Sian xx
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  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I e-mailed Dr. Schiller on the IBAF site asking which countries may be added by 2013? He responded by not knowing yet which countries will be added, but said that discussions are the following: at least three from Latin America, possibly three from Europe, one from Asia and one from Africa.
    Interesting- While any potential second African team would instantly become my second favourite, it seems difficult to justify their inclusion over a country elsewhere with a more 'developed' baseball program (relatively speaking of course)

    I'm assuming the second African nation would be Nigeria, as they are traditionally the closest to South Africa in terms of competitiveness, although baseball in Ghana seems to be slowly on the rise also

    Sian xx
    Sian xx

    South Africa Baseball-
    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
    All-Africa Games- CHAMPIONS (1999 & 2003)
    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  7. #127
    look like Bobby Valentine want to manage Team USA in 2013

    what you think of that??

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Americanoutlaw2.0 View Post
    look like Bobby Valentine want to manage Team USA in 2013

    what you think of that??
    I do not know if it is a good idea or bad idea but here are some thoughts.

    I like bobby v because he probably wont care about MLB teams thoughts or worries. Of course he will respect them but i doubt he will be like davey johnson. I also like him because he will do a better job of providing a balance attack for the USA so they do not rely on the HR only. Also after managing in japan he will probably be very familiar with japanese teams and pitchers. And the asian teams are favorites. Also i like his managing style.

    Cons as far as i know he hasnt managed in international tournaments. Also he he will probably be a bit more hands on then johnson. He might cause worries for MLB teams. Does he want to coach team USA? I see him adding some speed in the line up possibly with BJ upton and a few other speed runners and that is not america's game. Thought he is a good manager i know he is not the best at managing pitchers, not saying he is bad but i do not think he will get the best out of his pitchers. And he will probably use USA pitchers more then johnson did

  9. #129
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    I don't think anybody deserves to host it more than Korea, except THE TWO TIME DEFENDING CHAMPIONS. The Japanese fans showed a little more gumption by showing up in larger numbers for the non-Japan games than last time, and I think if it was all there attendance WOULD be better. I think the Japanese fans would show up for a USA/Dominican Republic matchup. The Japanese don't like the Koreans or the Chinese (or anybody really) so it is unrealistic to think they would show up for China/Chinese Taipei and the like. The Japanese have several domed stadiums so they could spread it across the country. And Japan can argue that their attendance was better, which it was, for all their games, than those in Puerto Rico, where 9,000 showed up twice, and 11,000 once, or San Diego, which had two crowds of 9,300, and that was only because they handed out about 3,000 FREE TICKETS downtown before the game. The problem would be getting MLB teams to allow their players to disappear to the other side of the world during Spring Training. It was enough of hassle this time.

    As for Korea, if they get that domed stadium then give them as many rounds as possible. They deserve it to. Their WBC and Olympic record the past three years is 22-4, with all those loses coming to Japan, two competitive loses, one blowout, and one loss in the meaningless seeding game this past year. But it is FREEZING in Seoul. The temperature during the Finals was 39 or something like that. It's too cold without that dome (And thanks for the info. I am hoping to Guangzhao in 2010 for the Asian Games, and now I have Incheon on the list for 2014.)

    I attended all the games in Mexico City, which had pretty decent attendance (I'll just take a mask to protect against the cigarette smoke next time), and I could see a first round headed back there, or more probably, Monterrey, to mix it up. The problem with moving it around the world, which I would love, is the quality of stadiums (they will demand good quality if they are sending MLB players) and the weather. I think they make focus more on Florida and Arizona next time because everybody is there for Spring Training anyway, and Tampa Bay will have a new ballpark they could use instead of Orlando.

    Personally, give me a gas mask, and play THE WHOLE THING in Mexico City. 7,300 feet up. 6 games 28 homers. I was in heaven. I went to all the games in San Diego and LA as well, and man what a difference compared to Mexico City. Just ask Cuba, who went homerless after leaving Mexico City.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    I think we can expect to see the following in 2013:

    The tournament will take place in March again.

    There will be a play-in round for at least eight new teams and the bottom eight or twelve teams from the 2009 tournament.

    South Korea will host one of the second round pools.

    The Dominican Republic will host one of the first or second round pools.

    Los Angeles, Anaheim, or Phoenix will host one of the quarter-final pools.

    Miami will host the semi-finals and finals in its new ballpark.

    Here's why I predict these things. South Korea has a definite claim to host a round. So if the WBC organizers give it to Japan again, Korea will rightfully demand to know why--and the specter of a boycott (such as the D.R. threatened this time around) could arise. What's more, I understand that Incheon plans to build a domed baseball stadium for the 2014 Asia Games. If this is ready to go by early 2013, I don't see how the WBC can say no.

    The D.R.'s threatened boycott fizzled out this year, but we'll hear more about it as 2013 approaches. The D.R. can rightfully claim that their fans deserve to see them play. If they can get their act together in time, I don't see how the WBC says no--especially if the island is hosting one of the play-in rounds where tickets can be priced lower and the infrastructure doesn't need to be world-class.

    I think the greater L.A. area has shown that its large ethnic communities and baseball-loving public are a perfect match for the WBC. The Dodger Stadium games were a huge success. (For those who noticed that the games didn't sell out, remember that it's a huge stadium. Dodger playoff games sometimes don't sell out.) Phoenix doesn't share L.A.'s demographics, but it's a baseball mecca in March. And with more promotion, I think the tournament could definitely be a draw for snowbirds.

    (For what it's worth, I'd like to see the quarterfinals held in a single city. I know that that's a challenge for TV ratings, but it would make the tournament easier to promote and more of a draw for out-of-towners, I think.)

    MLB has emphatically promised Miami officials that the WBC will be located there in 2013 if the county agrees to build the Marlins a new ballpark. Now that that's happened, I don't see how the WBC reneges on its promise. Too bad because, as I've written here for months, Miami hates going to baseball games.

  10. #130
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    True But

    I would love to see Lesotho play Hong Kong, or Lesotho play Thailand (only if I don't have to broadcast that game. I did a Thailand game on the Internet once. What a mess a I made of those names), but to get back to what Plowry was saying; aboslutely Pakistan should be there. The only question is seeding. Do they play a #1 or do you try to match them up a little more evenly, with, what would be in the early years, a clear cut favorite, say a Chinese Taipei in a group with Hong Kong, Thailand and Pakistan, or what. The seeding would be interesting, but before we bash the Pakistan baseball countries of the world because they are far behind who really was excited about UCONN battling Chattanooga in the NCAA's. But we give them their shot. No 16 as beat a 1, but they will eventually. Pakistan is not going to beat anybody anytime soon, but they will eventually, if we work to grow the sport there. If we could find 64 then I am absolutely for it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    64 teams? Maybe some day. As it now stands, IBAF only ranks 44 countries and territories. And those includes traditional international baseball powerhouses such as Lesotho and Pakistan.

  11. #131
    As I understand it, it's not eight new teams. The eight teams that advanced will be seeded (Korea, Japan, Cuba, Mexico, USA, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Holland).
    That would mean that maybe Thailand, Pakistan and the Philippines would play Taiwan and China and two would qualify, though it is possible that Taiwan would be invited and only one position would be open; in the same vein, maybe the Dominican Republic would be invited outright but Panama would have to play Colombia, Nicaragua and/or Brazil, maybe more.
    Italy would have to fight off Spain, England, Germany, Russia, Czech Republic, France or maybe even Sweden or more. And South Africa would play a couple of African nations to reclaim a place.

  12. #132
    i think korea deserves to host. And japan deserves to host the final rounds but when i was in round one in tokyo i went to four games and the korea chinese tapei game was not that full in fact other then the cheering section i saw at least 10 seats or more per row empty. When i saw japan play it was full. Remember the population in japan is over 90% japanese so not many foreigners. Lets say that japan host the final rounds but they do not make it how many will turn up for venezuela vs. the DR? Or USA vs. Mexico? I never been to korea so i do not know how baseball crazy they are. But it would be nice to have the final rounds outside the USA. But will MLB like that? I think the MLB needs to change it's schedule to support the classic.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    I e-mailed Dr. Schiller on the IBAF site asking which countries may be added by 2013? He responded by not knowing yet which countries will be added, but said that discussions are the following: at least three from Latin America, possibly three from Europe, one from Asia and one from Africa.
    Very interesting. It doesn't tell us much, but it gives me enough to kill a few minutes by idly speculating:

    Latin America: Colombia, Nicaragua, Brazil;
    Europe: Germany, Spain, Czech Republic;
    Asia: Philippines;
    Africa: Nigeria.

    I don't really see the point in inviting a second African country this time around. South Africa is light-years ahead of Ghana and Nigeria in baseball development. As I understand it, Ghana doesn't even have a single dedicated baseball field. And Nigeria and Ghana aren't exactly lighting up with world of international baseball: They're ranked 29 and 31 in the latest IBAF rankings and, as far as I know, they've never competed in a Baseball World Cup or other worldwide baseball tournament.

    Having said all that, I know that a lot of the powers-that-be have really promoted the idea of developing baseball in West Africa and eventually across the continent. And there probably isn't a better way of doing that than giving one of them a shot on the biggest international stage.

    The big losers here, of course, would be the European countries with well-developed baseball programs and a long-standing international presence--like Great Britain and Sweden. Unfortunately for them, the number of European teams probably won't exceed five under any scenario: It's not in the interest of the WBC to have so many of its participants come from just one continent. I suppose Europe is already used to this with the soccer world cup and the Olympics.

  14. #134
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    If Germany and the Czech Republic are selected in 2013, as an American, please do not allow any German-Americans or Czech-Americans to participate on the aforementioned teams. OK. Maybe two or three on each team, but that is enough.

  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard View Post
    If Germany and the Czech Republic are selected in 2013, as an American, please do not allow any German-Americans or Czech-Americans to participate on the aforementioned teams. OK. Maybe two or three on each team, but that is enough.
    I think similar limits should be in place for all countries. The Italians did just as well or better than the Italian-Americans; why let the latter play? One hyphenated player on a team (ex. Ray Chang on China or Leon Boyd on the Netherlands) doesn't bug me, but when they're the majority of the team, that's wrong.

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mischa View Post
    I think similar limits should be in place for all countries. The Italians did just as well or better than the Italian-Americans; why let the latter play? One hyphenated player on a team (ex. Ray Chang on China or Leon Boyd on the Netherlands) doesn't bug me, but when they're the majority of the team, that's wrong.
    Under Italian law they have just as much right to play as those born in Italy. There is no 'generation limit' on the heritage rules for being an Italian citizen, so anyone who has a father/mother or beyond (as far back as you can legally prove basically) that is Italian they have just as many rights to Italian citizenship as those born in the country

    Do I think it's fair on the Italian league players who represent their country all year round, then when the WBC rolls around, they get shunted into the wilderness? Of course not, but you can't stop the Italian-Americans from representing a country that they are legally citizens of

    Sian xx
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    Baseball World Cup- 9th (1974), 15th (1998), 14th (2001), 17th (2005), 15th (2007)
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    Olympic Baseball- 8th (2000)
    World Baseball Classic- 16th (2006), 16th (2009)

  17. #137
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    Under Italian law they have just as much right to play as those born in Italy. There is no 'generation limit' on the heritage rules for being an Italian citizen, so anyone who has a father/mother or beyond (as far back as you can legally prove basically) that is Italian they have just as many rights to Italian citizenship as those born in the country

    Do I think it's fair on the Italian league players who represent their country all year round, then when the WBC rolls around, they get shunted into the wilderness? Of course not, but you can't stop the Italian-Americans from representing a country that they are legally citizens of

    Sian xx
    When it comes to my take, if they want to play Italy GO OUT AND GET THE ACTUAL PASSPORT!!! At least Leon Boyd holds a Dutch passport and lives there. These Italian-Americans only chose Italy because they weren't good enough for the American team.

    I understand under Italian law they could citizenship; I just wish the WBC went by that instead of "well they COULD get one if they wanted to."

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet_Bokke View Post
    lol sorry that wasn't entirely clear of me- I didn't mean Great Britain AND Trinidad & Tobago form a team, they were just two examples of teams made from more than one country that I would accept because of historical reasons

    Just squeezing two or more countries together for no other reason than to make them more competitive doesn't really cut it with me

    Sian xx
    I had glanced through the thread earlier and saw this but didn't fully take notice at first.

    Bokke, I think you've gotten confused. Great Britain has been one country since the 1700s, so a Britain team isn't really a team made up from more than one country. And isn't Trinidad & Tobago one country? Rather like Bosnia & Herzegovina...or Sao Tome & Principe...or Great Britain and Northern Ireland?
    Last edited by ShawnC; 03-31-2009 at 11:13 PM.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    When it comes to my take, if they want to play Italy GO OUT AND GET THE ACTUAL PASSPORT!!! At least Leon Boyd holds a Dutch passport and lives there. These Italian-Americans only chose Italy because they weren't good enough for the American team.

    I understand under Italian law they could citizenship; I just wish the WBC went by that instead of "well they COULD get one if they wanted to."
    But what's the difference? Citizenship or eligibility for citizenship is based on law, not on possession of a passport. Why make people jump through hoops unnecessarily?

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Agente Libre View Post
    But what's the difference? Citizenship or eligibility for citizenship is based on law, not on possession of a passport. Why make people jump through hoops unnecessarily?
    I guess it's the whole "actuality" versus "potential" aspect. Until a person who is eligible for citizenship actually takes it up, they aren't a citizen. So some of those players may be eligible for Italian citizenship, but until they do they are 100% American citizens and can't do things that actual Italian citizens could do. And then it sounds relatively easy for these guys to take out an Italian passport (no limits on heritage) so I guess the question could be "why not?"

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