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Thread: 2013 World Baseball Classic

  1. #1341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    I am thinking with all the retired Jewish people in Florida that you can send Spain to Germany, and put Israel in Florida..... And the qualifier to be at would be in Panama with Panama, Colombia, Brazil, and Nicaragua!
    If Israel DOES play in Florida AND Israel names either Ron Blomberg or Art Shamsky as manager, all the retired NYers will DEFINITELY show.
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  2. #1342
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    Now, I heard today, from sources I will not reveal, that an announcement will come the first week of March, but that the November dates in Taiwan look to be correct, and that the other qualifiers, dates unknown, but likely in September will be held in Germany, Panama, and Florida!
    Those sites make a lot of sense. I'm sure I've predicted them all at one time or another. (But then I've pretty much predicted every city in the world would host a round. Cover my bases.)

    I think certainly Team Israel would play in a Florida-based qualifier. Why not? The fans are there, the team's chief financial backer is there, and the threat of a potential underdog challenger to Team Canada will encourage the Canucks to try to field the best team they can. (A September series, though, will make it impossible, of course, for major leaguers to make it.)

    So (assuming this speculation is right), here's what we've got: Thailand, Taiwan, Philippines, and New Zealand in the Taiwan pool (unless the Japan mess isn't figured out by November, and Taiwan gets promoted as a replacement); South Africa, Germany, Czech Republic, and Spain in Regensburg; Panama, Colombia, Brazil, and Nicaragua in Panama; and Canada, Israel, France, and Great Britain in Florida. Lots of interesting story lines there.

  3. #1343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    Those sites make a lot of sense. I'm sure I've predicted them all at one time or another. (But then I've pretty much predicted every city in the world would host a round. Cover my bases.)

    I think certainly Team Israel would play in a Florida-based qualifier. Why not? The fans are there, the team's chief financial backer is there, and the threat of a potential underdog challenger to Team Canada will encourage the Canucks to try to field the best team they can. (A September series, though, will make it impossible, of course, for major leaguers to make it.)

    So (assuming this speculation is right), here's what we've got: Thailand, Taiwan, Philippines, and New Zealand in the Taiwan pool (unless the Japan mess isn't figured out by November, and Taiwan gets promoted as a replacement); South Africa, Germany, Czech Republic, and Spain in Regensburg; Panama, Colombia, Brazil, and Nicaragua in Panama; and Canada, Israel, France, and Great Britain in Florida. Lots of interesting story lines there.
    Florida Qualifier would best be played in November. Major leaguers would be available and the temps are a bit more moderate, with less humidity. They could be held here in the Tampa Bay area. Al Lang Stadiium, Bright House Field, Steinbrenner Field and Florida Auto Exchange Stadium are four parks that would be sufficient.
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  4. #1344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    Paula....please tell me that was Die Fantastichen Vier singing that song for that video!!!! And tell me where I can download it as well!!!!!
    would love it would be Fanta 4 but it is "just" a local Regensburg band. Have send you the mp3 file.

    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins
    That song is too "in your face" for my liking
    true but I kind of like the song

    For those interested here is the musicvid live performance closing ceremony BBWC 09 Regensburg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rawL_MQhcA
    You can find some more vids of the WC Regensburg there too as it gives a good view about the atmosphere
    The only thing you know is you never know and that you know for sure!

  5. #1345
    There are some confusing issues here. (1) We hear speculation about using various minor league ballparks in Florida for the Qualifying Round, with " satisfactory " capacity. It seems that everyone on this blog is resigned to Qualifying Round games drawing measly crowds of 3000 or 4000. Let's say that #7 Taiwan, #15 Panama, and #17 Germany are hosting the other three pools. So potentially this qualifying round pool is being displaced from Toronto to Florida. (2) Why would #6 Canada not be interested in hosting this pool instead of going down to Florida ? A #6 team would seem to have the talent to go all the way into the semifinals. (3) Why wouldn't the WBC want to highlight their newest stadium, Marlins Ballpark in Miami ? (4) It would seem to me that a well-promoted pool in either Toronto or Miami could easily draw an average of 15,000 fans, with the most interesting games drawing upwards of 20,000 or 25,000. Why does everyone assume that these games will be trivial in terms of attendance ?

  6. #1346
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    Here are some attendance figures from the last time Panama and Germany hosted an International event; and the attendance figures from Nicaragua's games in Panama. How much of an increase in attendance can we expect for the WBC Qualifiers?

    Attendance from Panama 2011 BWC
    Panama vs.
    PHP Code:
    Greece        20,000
    Taiwan         3
    ,000
    Puerto Rico    6
    ,000
    Japan          7
    ,000
    Canada         7
    ,500
    Netherlands    7
    ,500
    USA            4
    ,000
    Venezuela      5
    ,200
    South Korea    2
    ,000
    Australia        100
    Cuba           2
    ,500
    Venezuela        100 
    Attendance from Germany 2009 BWC
    Germany vs.
    PHP Code:
    China        5,300
    USA          9
    ,600
    Venezuela    6
    ,900 
    Attendance from Panama 2011 BWC
    Nicaragua vs.
    PHP Code:
    Germany          400
    Venezuela      2
    ,500
    Italy            250
    Australia        400
    South Korea    2
    ,900
    Dominincan Rep 5
    ,500
    Cuba           5
    ,000 

  7. #1347
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    Something to remember is that there are a lot of Snowbirds in Florida, Canadians who retire or go on vacation in warmer climates. There's enough Canadians in Florida that they thought it safe to put ice hockey teams in Tampa and Miami. It's why I don't mind Canada playing in Florida, there will be fans down there for them.

  8. #1348
    Not sure what Phil Lowry's talking about. WBC Inc.'s bid invitations said that the organizers want the stadiums in the qualifying rounds to seat at least 10,000 fans. And Champion Stadium at Orlando's ESPN Wide World of Sports Complex has just under that. Remember, that's where one of the first-round pools was held during the '06 Classic.

    I don't think anyone's resigned to small crowds for the qualifiers. (Although there might be.) But the WBC never planned for them to be held in a stadium the size of the Rogers Center or the new Marlins ballbark. I'd expect crowds in the 5000-10,000 range.

  9. #1349
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    Quote Originally Posted by PLowry View Post
    There are some confusing issues here. (1) We hear speculation about using various minor league ballparks in Florida for the Qualifying Round, with " satisfactory " capacity. It seems that everyone on this blog is resigned to Qualifying Round games drawing measly crowds of 3000 or 4000. Let's say that #7 Taiwan, #15 Panama, and #17 Germany are hosting the other three pools. So potentially this qualifying round pool is being displaced from Toronto to Florida. (2) Why would #6 Canada not be interested in hosting this pool instead of going down to Florida ? A #6 team would seem to have the talent to go all the way into the semifinals. (3) Why wouldn't the WBC want to highlight their newest stadium, Marlins Ballpark in Miami ? (4) It would seem to me that a well-promoted pool in either Toronto or Miami could easily draw an average of 15,000 fans, with the most interesting games drawing upwards of 20,000 or 25,000. Why does everyone assume that these games will be trivial in terms of attendance ?
    Simply stated.....history.... I've been to a lot of International events, and while this means more than others, it is to new and without the marquee teams that will draw the big attendance.... in my opinion.

  10. #1350
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    Simply stated.....history.... I've been to a lot of International events, and while this means more than others, it is to new and without the marquee teams that will draw the big attendance.... in my opinion.
    I mean, that's right. Why would we think there'd be 20,000 fans in the seats to see, say, a Canada versus Great Britain game? Especially if, as expected, no big leaguers play? Heck, the Canada-Italy game only attracted 12,000 fans in Toronto back in '09. And that roster included Joey Votto, Justin Morneau, Jason Bay, and Matt Stairs!

    Sure, promotion helps. And if the organizers did a better job, it could've been higher. But, come on. A qualifying event? 10,000 is optimistic.

  11. #1351
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    If Israel is going to placed in the Florida group, then the Germany group may include France, Czech Republic and South Africa. Germany may have better attendance with bordering nations of France and Czech Republic than with Spain in their group.


  12. #1352
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    If Israel is going to placed in the Florida group, then the Germany group may include France, Czech Republic and South Africa. Germany may have better attendance with bordering nations of France and Czech Republic than with Spain in their group.
    Good point. And with the number of Cuban and Venezuelan ex-pats that are likely to be on the Spanish team, it makes sense to put them in Florida, where they can be closer to family, friends, and supporters.

    At any rate, I was thinking it would be fun to have France play in a pool with Canada and Great Britain to play up France's natural rivalry with Great Britain--and to maybe pique the interest of Francophone Canadians. But it probably doesn't make much of a difference.

  13. #1353
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    I mean, that's right. Why would we think there'd be 20,000 fans in the seats to see, say, a Canada versus Great Britain game? Especially if, as expected, no big leaguers play? Heck, the Canada-Italy game only attracted 12,000 fans in Toronto back in '09. And that roster included Joey Votto, Justin Morneau, Jason Bay, and Matt Stairs!

    Sure, promotion helps. And if the organizers did a better job, it could've been higher. But, come on. A qualifying event? 10,000 is optimistic.
    I'm of the opinion the double-elimination format was bad for attendance and ticket buyers. Someone here did the homework comparing attendance numbers for games after the first 2 in a pool. They were terrible due to people not knowing what teams would be in what games after the first known one. You want better attendance, then go back to the round robin pools.

    Also, not trying to make excuses, but this would not be fair to Canada to have play a scraped together Israel squad of MLBers when our program has existed for decades and promoted our own growth ourselves. I know in the past I complained about Italy using Italian-Americans to fill out portions of the roster, but the Israel team will be more ridiculous.
    Last edited by cutchemist42; 02-29-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  14. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    I'm of the opinion the double-elimination format was bad for attendance and ticket buyers. Someone here did the homework comparing attendance numbers for games after the first 2 in a pool. They were terrible due to people not knowing what teams would be in what games after the first known one. You want better attendance, then go back to the round robin pools.

    Also, not trying to make excuses, but this would not be fair to Canada to have play a scraped together Israel squad of MLBers when our program has existed for decades and promoted our own growth ourselves. I know in the past I complained about Italy using Italian-Americans to fill out portions of the roster, but the Israel team will be more ridiculous.
    If Canada can use Votto, Jason Bay and their other Major Leaguers, they should win that pool. You have to remember you're still going up a team of baseball players representing Israel. They have made steps, but are still no where near the talent pool Canada has to work with.

  15. #1355
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    Quote Originally Posted by USA101 View Post
    If Canada can use Votto, Jason Bay and their other Major Leaguers, they should win that pool. You have to remember you're still going up a team of baseball players representing Israel. They have made steps, but are still no where near the talent pool Canada has to work with.
    But every Jewish American baseball player qualifies for the team because of the stupid eligibility rules and some of those players are MLB talent. Not only that, but we've already determined anyone from a Commonwealth country can represent Great Britain too which is dumb if it happens.

  16. #1356
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    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    But every Jewish American baseball player qualifies for the team because of the stupid eligibility rules and some of those players are MLB talent. Not only that, but we've already determined anyone from a Commonwealth country can represent Great Britain too which is dumb if it happens.
    If iwas a player, I could qualify for *five * national sqauds.

    I was born in Boston; I can play for the USA.
    My father was from The Netherlands; I do have dual citizenship. I could play for The Orange.
    My grandfather (mother's side) was from The Ukraine; I could represent them
    His wife (my mother's mother) was from Russia; I could play for them.
    I'm Jewish; I could play for Israel.
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

  17. #1357
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDL View Post
    If iwas a player, I could qualify for *five * national sqauds.
    I donīt know if you are talented or not but I would choose USA or NL ;-)

    but without no doubt and no matter what you would have good chances to make the team in Ukraine, Russia and Israel (not WBC)

    And this is the point I do agree with the others here Israel playing the Qualifier and may kicking other teams out of the WBC is rediculous as they are not able to beat a Great Britain team made of "true" british players to advance out of the B-Pool at the european level
    The only thing you know is you never know and that you know for sure!

  18. #1358
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    Listing teams you could play for under WBC shows how it's so dumb.

    -I'm Canadian so could play for Canada
    -I am Canadian so qualify for Great Britain automatically because of Commonwealth status
    -My Grandmother was English anyway so I double qualify.
    -My mom is Croatian so I qualify for them.

    And players can choose their countries without any prior history of representing that country or being developed by that federation. If Canada with a decades-long history of producing talent loses to an Israel team because a couple of Jewish-Americans decided on a whim,"Why the hell not?", I will rage.

    Deep down, I wonder what is more important to MLB and WBC organizers? Canadian television numbers or potential Jewish-American tv numbers with future potential. The Canadian media already blasted the tourney last time for what Italy was. It could be 10x worse depending on what Israel looks like.

  19. #1359
    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    And players can choose their countries without any prior history of representing that country or being developed by that federation. If Canada with a decades-long history of producing talent loses to an Israel team because a couple of Jewish-Americans decided on a whim,"Why the hell not?", I will rage.
    Did you rage when Mark Teahan, who is (or was) an American citizen, decided to play for Team Canada? Will you rage if a Great Britain team that consists mostly of Canadians, Aussies, and Americans beats Canada? Or a French team consisting of Quebecois?

    Why single out Israel?

    Here's the bottom line: Team Germany's organizers are free to pick only native-born Germans for their roster if they want to. They're also free to have their butts humiliated in the tournament. Italy, to their credit, wanted to win some games. And so they included Italian Americans on the team. Would I prefer to have more Alex Liddi-caliber players living in Italy? Sure. But that's not the way it is. If the WBC used strict citizenship rules, there'd be only a handful of teams who'd have a shot of winning it all. (The Dominican Republic, with the American Albert Pujols barred from playing first base, probably wouldn't be one of them.)

    Oh, and and a citizens-only rule would be unique, too, among international sport tournaments. Who was the best player on Japan's Rugby World Cup team last year? A New Zealander, who qualified to play for the Brave Blossoms because he plays his club rugby in Japan. Even the FIFA World Cup--which, to be sure, requires that players be naturalized citizens of the countries they represent--still lets players play for countries that aren't their home or birth country so long as they have "clear connection" to the country. (That wasn't always the case. Before 2004, it wasn't uncommon for players to play on several different teams in international play over their careers. Countries would simply naturalize them in order to get them on the team. A lot more corrupt and nonsensical than what the WBC does now.)

    So don't pick on Israel. Team New Zealand will no doubt field Americans and Aussies who've never stepped foot in New Zealand. The Phillipines will probably have Filipino-American players. I wouldn't be surprised if a Thai-American or two play for their parents' or grandparents' country. Obviously, this isn't ideal. But until baseball enjoys the kind of deep international popularity that soccer has, it's not really realistic for the WBC to do it any other way. Unless we just want to see five or six teams compete.

  20. #1360
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    Mike Nickeas of the Mets...Canadian born, he grw up in Southern California. He's played for the USA and for Great Britain in the 2007 Euros.. His father was a soccer player from England who came over here to play in the old NASL for Vancouver. Surprised he hasn't played for Canada.
    Man, do I *HATE* the Yankees!!!!!!

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