Page 69 of 192 FirstFirst ... 1959676869707179119169 ... LastLast
Results 1,361 to 1,380 of 3833

Thread: 2013 World Baseball Classic

  1. #1361
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,570
    Blog Entries
    3

    Timing of the WBC

    David Ortiz says that the timing of the "Classic needs to be changed". Paraphrasing Ortiz "Cubans and Asians beat us because they play year round, those guys sleep with their uniforms on". He proposes that Spring Training should be completed and that the Classic be played in April. Cleveland Indians manager, Manny Acta agrees with Ortiz, but says that an April WBC is not going to happen. Acta says that the "Solution is to play in the Winter" or a November time table. Acta says that players would be in better position to play in Winter League to prepare for a Fall/Winter WBC and it would be better than running the risk of injury right before the regular MLB season.

  2. #1362
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    Did you rage when Mark Teahan, who is (or was) an American citizen, decided to play for Team Canada? Will you rage if a Great Britain team that consists mostly of Canadians, Aussies, and Americans beats Canada? Or a French team consisting of Quebecois?

    Why single out Israel?

    Here's the bottom line: Team Germany's organizers are free to pick only native-born Germans for their roster if they want to. They're also free to have their butts humiliated in the tournament. Italy, to their credit, wanted to win some games. And so they included Italian Americans on the team. Would I prefer to have more Alex Liddi-caliber players living in Italy? Sure. But that's not the way it is. If the WBC used strict citizenship rules, there'd be only a handful of teams who'd have a shot of winning it all. (The Dominican Republic, with the American Albert Pujols barred from playing first base, probably wouldn't be one of them.)

    Oh, and and a citizens-only rule would be unique, too, among international sport tournaments. Who was the best player on Japan's Rugby World Cup team last year? A New Zealander, who qualified to play for the Brave Blossoms because he plays his club rugby in Japan. Even the FIFA World Cup--which, to be sure, requires that players be naturalized citizens of the countries they represent--still lets players play for countries that aren't their home or birth country so long as they have "clear connection" to the country. (That wasn't always the case. Before 2004, it wasn't uncommon for players to play on several different teams in international play over their careers. Countries would simply naturalize them in order to get them on the team. A lot more corrupt and nonsensical than what the WBC does now.)

    So don't pick on Israel. Team New Zealand will no doubt field Americans and Aussies who've never stepped foot in New Zealand. The Phillipines will probably have Filipino-American players. I wouldn't be surprised if a Thai-American or two play for their parents' or grandparents' country. Obviously, this isn't ideal. But until baseball enjoys the kind of deep international popularity that soccer has, it's not really realistic for the WBC to do it any other way. Unless we just want to see five or six teams compete.

    Ummm, I've been pretty consistent in saying I hate the WBC rules for eligiblity no matter what team it is. Go back through my posts if you truly want to. Your also using sports that I agree have lax eligibility rules still. I know it won't happen but I like the IIHF rules.

    Gotta play in that country for 2 years before even being allowed to play and then you still gotta prove your connection. A Canadian hockey player cannot represent Great Britain while being allowed to get citizenship until he plays 2 years in the British Hockey League to show how serious he is taking it. The two year limit really stops the IIHF from suffering from this problem even if it means a lot of countries don't have a chance.

    I mean, when Italy held the Winter Olympics they were really afraid of their hockey team looking bad so thjey tried hard to recruit in Southern Ontario for Italian-Canadians to play for them. They were not successful though because its two years of your life. I mean, in hockey, you could easily put together awesome Australian/British/French/Dutch hockey teams with Canadians if the rules were that easy in hockey.

    Sure, the IIHF has maybe 3-4 countries that can ever compete for a Gold Medal but atleast I know each team truly represents the efforts of their national hockey federations to grow the sport.

    Just wondering if you like the WBC rules personally?
    Last edited by cutchemist42; 03-01-2012 at 11:25 PM.

  3. #1363
    That's fair, cutchemist. Personally, I like the IIHF model as you described it. Assuming that real leagues can gain traction in Europe and across Asia, I think it's one the WBC can adopt down the road. But only, I think, once it's clear that it won't undermine the competitiveness of the tournament. In the meantime, some variation of the current liberal eligibility rules will have to be used--unless, again, we're happy with seeing the same five teams dominate the WBC year after year.


    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    David Ortiz says that the timing of the "Classic needs to be changed". Paraphrasing Ortiz "Cubans and Asians beat us because they play year round, those guys sleep with their uniforms on". He proposes that Spring Training should be completed and that the Classic be played in April. Cleveland Indians manager, Manny Acta agrees with Ortiz, but says that an April WBC is not going to happen. Acta says that the "Solution is to play in the Winter" or a November time table. Acta says that players would be in better position to play in Winter League to prepare for a Fall/Winter WBC and it would be better than running the risk of injury right before the regular MLB season.

    I actually agree with this. As long as MLB runs the WBC in spring training, it'll seem like exhibition games. And, as Ortiz says, countries whose players play and train through the winter will dominate. I don't think the solution is to move it to April. (MLB won't sacrifice regular season games for this.) Or to November. (It's hard for me to think of American audiences tuning in much to fall baseball after the World Series--and when football season is hitting its stride.)

    No, the answer, I think is to play the tournament during the All-Star Break. An opening round in March or November makes sense: A field of 32 teams playing in 8 pools spread around the globe. Sort of like now. But then after that initial qualifying round, the top 8 or 16 teams can then cool their jets for a few months, and then play the remaining games in a single-elimination, NCAA basketball-style tournament held over four or five days the second week of July. The All-Star game would be canceled for that year, of course (or played with players who aren't in the WBC), but most of the top players we look forward to seeing that time of year will be playing for their countries instead. It'd take moving up the season to accomodate the extra day or two of the break. But the excitement of single-elimination--to say nothing of the fact that players are in peak form this time of year--would make it worth it.

  4. #1364
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    That's fair, cutchemist. Personally, I like the IIHF model as you described it. Assuming that real leagues can gain traction in Europe and across Asia, I think it's one the WBC can adopt down the road. But only, I think, once it's clear that it won't undermine the competitiveness of the tournament. In the meantime, some variation of the current liberal eligibility rules will have to be used--unless, again, we're happy with seeing the same five teams dominate the WBC year after year.





    I actually agree with this. As long as MLB runs the WBC in spring training, it'll seem like exhibition games. And, as Ortiz says, countries whose players play and train through the winter will dominate. I don't think the solution is to move it to April. (MLB won't sacrifice regular season games for this.) Or to November. (It's hard for me to think of American audiences tuning in much to fall baseball after the World Series--and when football season is hitting its stride.)

    No, the answer, I think is to play the tournament during the All-Star Break. An opening round in March or November makes sense: A field of 32 teams playing in 8 pools spread around the globe. Sort of like now. But then after that initial qualifying round, the top 8 or 16 teams can then cool their jets for a few months, and then play the remaining games in a single-elimination, NCAA basketball-style tournament held over four or five days the second week of July. The All-Star game would be canceled for that year, of course (or played with players who aren't in the WBC), but most of the top players we look forward to seeing that time of year will be playing for their countries instead. It'd take moving up the season to accomodate the extra day or two of the break. But the excitement of single-elimination--to say nothing of the fact that players are in peak form this time of year--would make it worth it.
    Concerning eligibility, I understand the competitiveness is important but its just too lax for me. I could compromise for the moment if you allowed the current WBC rules but limited them to only 50% of your hitters and 50% of your pitchers and made the rest have to be native players, something along those lines.

    My biggest fear is a WBC team having only 10% of the team represent a country's true baseball strength. To be fair, I should save my comments for when rosters are actually announced and then I can criticize the make-up of any WBC team.

  5. #1365
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    454
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    Why single out Israel?
    My point is a WBC (Qualifier) team should be competitive at their continental level and should only invited if the do have a strong domestic league and a running (youth and growth) programm. As I donīt know how this is with Thailand, NZ, etc I only point out to Israel. They do not really run a league - well there was twice the project but it failed. The national team plays at a low level and all of sudden they can be a fear to other countries (Canada, etc) who deserve it more to represent the country at the highest level of international Baseball.
    If we just go by european teams Germany, Spain, Czech Republic, Great Britain (all EC A Pool team) can fall and miss the WBC founding because Israel (never made it out of EC B Pool) fields a team made of players with no relationship (just because of their religion heritage) to the country.

    I hope Germany will use the eligibilty rule as much as possible although I donīt like it but what I more like is to get the WBC money to keep the programm running for years. Doing this will cut longtime national team players who helped the team to be here where we are right now and believe me they hardly derserve to play at the WBC level. One player quoted at a WC: "I am an old player! You young players may get the chance to reach the MLB or even the World Series but this is my kind of World Series, I will never play at any higher stage like this. So letīs do as good as we can!"
    I do know a lot of eligible players allready asked to play for Germany and trying to set everthing up to be eligible.

    All teams are bolstering to stay/get in the money which is ok but the romantic part on international Baseball is lost.

    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42
    I could compromise for the moment if you allowed the current WBC rules but limited them to only 50% of your hitters and 50% of your pitchers and made the rest have to be native players, something along those lines.
    I like that idea!
    The only thing you know is you never know and that you know for sure!

  6. #1366
    Hey Guys,

    As a Brit I'd like to mention that if you live in a commonwealth country that does not qualify you for a British passport. Granted a lot of people who live in commonwealth or ex commonwealth will have British ancestors and therefore qualify for a passport, but just being born in Canada doesn't make you eligible for the GB team.

    I'm with Paula and hope we also take the strongest team possible, not just because of the money but because of the exposure that the sports needs in this country, especially after baseball was taken out of the Olympics. In my eyes he WBC at the moment is all about spreading the sport.

  7. #1367
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by FDot25 View Post
    Hey Guys,

    As a Brit I'd like to mention that if you live in a commonwealth country that does not qualify you for a British passport. Granted a lot of people who live in commonwealth or ex commonwealth will have British ancestors and therefore qualify for a passport, but just being born in Canada doesn't make you eligible for the GB team.

    I'm with Paula and hope we also take the strongest team possible, not just because of the money but because of the exposure that the sports needs in this country, especially after baseball was taken out of the Olympics. In my eyes he WBC at the moment is all about spreading the sport.
    Yeah it appears thats true then. You do get some good rights still like right to vote and hold office!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_citizen

  8. #1368
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,570
    Blog Entries
    3

  9. #1369
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    Not a lot of new news there, unfortunately. I know it's pretty obvious by now, but it needs to be said: The 2013 World Baseball Classic starts in just 12 months, people. To say the least, it's pretty concerning that MLB hasn't announced the venues yet.

  10. #1370
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by NewEnglandAmazins View Post
    I spoke with a member of the Great Britain team over the weekend, and he said they do not know anything. The one thing he did say is that they received an email asking who might be available from September 4th through the 30th, so as to cover the Euro's, and potentially a WBC qualifier. That leads credence to the September theories, but who is to say. He said that is a lot to ask guys who have jobs and families; to go away for a month. So, we continue to wait...

  11. #1371
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,570
    Blog Entries
    3
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post

    Not a lot of new news there, unfortunately. I know it's pretty obvious by now, but it needs to be said: The 2013 World Baseball Classic starts in just 12 months, people. To say the least, it's pretty concerning that MLB hasn't announced the venues yet.
    Yes, it's slim pick'ens for WBC related news.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    I spoke with a member of the Great Britain team over the weekend, and he said they do not know anything. The one thing he did say is that they received an email asking who might be available from September 4th through the 30th, so as to cover the Euro's, and potentially a WBC qualifier. That leads credence to the September theories, but who is to say. He said that is a lot to ask guys who have jobs and families; to go away for a month. So, we continue to wait...
    Any idea what's the reason for the hold up; are they still trying to get Japan to participate or proceeding without Japan has proven to be more challenging to organize?

  12. #1372
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    1,006
    Canadian news on the WBC and Canadian NT on sportnset.ca. (They are the bigger of Canada's two sports networks for baseball since they own the Blue Jays)

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...seball_canada/

    So organizers wanted Vancouver to host a quali tourney but it did not make financial sense and no other cities work real well. September is mentioned again here so I think that's definite. I still think Winnipeg or Edmonton could have worked in September. So that means no major leaguers on quali teams, right.

    Other then that, it sounds like Toronto is waiting on Canada's success in the quali before committing to bidding for actual WBC hosting and Canada is worried about other countries pushing to naturalize players before quali rosters have to be set.

    Lastly, Germany is mentioned again as a host event.

  13. #1373
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    562
    Quote Originally Posted by cutchemist42 View Post
    Canadian news on the WBC and Canadian NT on sportnset.ca. (They are the bigger of Canada's two sports networks for baseball since they own the Blue Jays)

    http://www.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...seball_canada/

    So organizers wanted Vancouver to host a quali tourney but it did not make financial sense and no other cities work real well. September is mentioned again here so I think that's definite. I still think Winnipeg or Edmonton could have worked in September. So that means no major leaguers on quali teams, right.

    Other then that, it sounds like Toronto is waiting on Canada's success in the quali before committing to bidding for actual WBC hosting and Canada is worried about other countries pushing to naturalize players before quali rosters have to be set.

    Lastly, Germany is mentioned again as a host event.
    I think you can look in Germany in September and Taiwan in November as hosts. After that I think September will be the time as wel, and that helps some teams and hurts others...Especially if certain players are in the playoffs for minors. My contact in New Zealand was hoping for a September qualifer because he wanted his players more game ready. The November qualifier requires a slightly longer training camp to get them game ready and all that pre-WBC stuff comes out of the federations own pocket. For countries like New Zealand, where they have to fly EVERYBODY in it gets costly. The wait is agonzing, and inexplicable.

  14. #1374
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    I think you can look in Germany in September and Taiwan in November as hosts. After that I think September will be the time as wel, and that helps some teams and hurts others...Especially if certain players are in the playoffs for minors. My contact in New Zealand was hoping for a September qualifer because he wanted his players more game ready. The November qualifier requires a slightly longer training camp to get them game ready and all that pre-WBC stuff comes out of the federations own pocket. For countries like New Zealand, where they have to fly EVERYBODY in it gets costly. The wait is agonzing, and inexplicable.
    a lot of interesting stuff in that Sportsnet article. First, it's pretty obvious that the Japanese players' hold-out is the chief culprit here. It's also becoming clear how much that hold-out is playing havoc with Team Canada--to say nothing of New Zealand and other qualifiers who need certainty in order to recruit players, line up sponsors, and the rest. Awful.

    Also, I read the article to suggest that the Germany and a possible Florida pool could be pushed back to November. And, perhaps most interesting of all, no members of an MLB 40-man roster will be eligible for the qualifiers. And that means, it seems, that--irrespective of when the qualifiers take place--the teams won't have any major leaguers on them.

  15. #1375
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Winnipeg, Canada
    Posts
    1,006
    Quote Originally Posted by Rally Monkey View Post
    a lot of interesting stuff in that Sportsnet article. First, it's pretty obvious that the Japanese players' hold-out is the chief culprit here. It's also becoming clear how much that hold-out is playing havoc with Team Canada--to say nothing of New Zealand and other qualifiers who need certainty in order to recruit players, line up sponsors, and the rest. Awful.

    Also, I read the article to suggest that the Germany and a possible Florida pool could be pushed back to November. And, perhaps most interesting of all, no members of an MLB 40-man roster will be eligible for the qualifiers. And that means, it seems, that--irrespective of when the qualifiers take place--the teams won't have any major leaguers on them.
    Yeah this quote from the sportsnet article seems to indicate no MLBers in the qualis.

    "That is the danger both for Canada, and World Baseball Classic organizers, who risk missing out on stars such as Joey Votto, Justin Morneau, Jason Bay, Russell Martin, John Axford and Brett Lawrie should an upset occur."

    I still wish the quali length was longer. I rarely get to watch international baseball and I want something more then 3 games!

  16. #1376
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A sports field near you
    Posts
    91
    A lot of good talk on this board. Im impressed at how much some people know about baseball in Europe, especially Paula! I've been waiting about two weeks to get my registration confirmed, now I'm finally able to contribute, so please pardon the long rant...

    Having played in some of these countries, and as a person who takes the development of the game abroad seriously, it is both understandable and unfortunate that some teams choose to fill their rosters with players who have only a slight connection to the nation on their uniform. Whether it be religion (Israel), commonwealth (GB) or heritage (Spain), not many people can say that importing talent truly benefits the development of the game. These hired guns make only short stays with their new teams, taking advantage of the chance to play in tournaments. Players in the country who are replaced don't learn from the experience, and the actual team or federation is left at the mercy of the big name imports.

    GB is just one example of this, with their weak league and floundering national team program that is nearly entirely reliant on imports for their success. Israel, whom I supported 110% during their hosting of the ECQ last year, has done a good job of at least getting Israelis with US baseball experience, sending players to college, etc. If they were to flip their roster for the WBCQ purely for the sake of making it, I would have no choice but to cheer against them. With friends on the current roster, I don't want to see the investment by the Israel Baseball Federation sacrificed by replacing Israelis with Jews, and them missing the opportunity of a lifetime to actually improve the standing of baseball in Israel.

    Those familiar with Greece's baseball plight might see it as a warning to countries: you can import players, but you can't import interest in the game. Orioles owner Angelos did a great job of recruiting American ball players with Greek family history, and sponsored a Greek referendum that allowed athletes to become citizens without much trouble, allowing the Greeks to put a respectable baseball team on the field during the Olympics the year they hosted. Now, there aren't any decent baseball fields in Greece, and the best players look for opportunities in Italy and Germany to play. A team that is still made up of (aging) Americans got destroyed in Panama this past fall at the World Cup.

    The reason why I bring this up isn't to criticize Greece, but to pose this question:
    which benefits baseball more, an inexperienced German team that has two non-German born players on their 40-man list of players up for the team, or an aging Greece team that is 75% Americans?

    If I had Greek citizenship, you bet your hat I would sign up to play for them. The onus is on IBAF, MLB, and WBC directors to determine what works best for the game, so that our sport can make gains on the popularity of soccer around the globe. There are many limits to recreational baseball (equipment, team size, time, etc) that other sports don't have (shooting hoops, kicking at a goal).

    With the agreement between IBAF and MLB on the restructuring of the World Cup, I can imagine that MLB has their eyes clearly trained down the road. After all, Netherlands as world champions gets lots of attention in new markets (small country overcomes baseball powerhouses to win, sounds like a Hollywood plotline). Instituting amateur rules for U21 and U18 world championships ensures that native players receive a more fair chance, meaning we could see a shift in WBC policy in 3/6 years that places limits on nationality.

    MLB isn't NFP, its about money, so looking at these decisions there is obvious motivation: Germany is the biggest market in Europe, nearly no baseball saturation, and Coach Frady's success (along with prospects performing better than past German signees), so the reward of hosting is a decent bone to throw their way. The German Federation (DBV) has not made moves to improve the Bundesliga, but this has primarily been because lower level clubs have two feet on the brakes, hurting the strides made by clubs such as Bonn, Solingen, Regensburg, and even Stuttgart (among others).

    In Israel, you have a country where a serious baseball league failed, but a clearly defined fan base in America means potential for insane revenue. Imagine if Israel were to get a share of WBC profits, and could build a second legitimate baseball stadium in the Tel Aviv area...the current main field is on a Baptist camp, out in the country. If more people saw a field in a metropolitan area, I know for a fact this would raise interest among the public, and inspire and motivate the baseball playing youth. Also, Selig and other Jews in connections to the MLB were on the Israel Baseball League board, so there is clear support from MLB for Israeli participation, despite not earning it.

    MLB will set up the qualifiers to put the teams they want in the WBC. Whether its money, competitiveness, or what have you, they have a clear interest in raising the profile of the tournament abroad (see: South Africa). A qualifier in the US can fit or hurt that, depending on whether you think money or interest level is of bigger importance in a qualifier. A country's program being left in the dark about participation has zero-sway; MLB covers their participation anyways, so no need to bite the hand that feeds. If you track MLB investment over the recent years, I think the signs will point to your answers of what we'll hear when the release finally comes.

    *phew*
    Last edited by TheInternationalGame; 03-09-2012 at 09:12 AM. Reason: sp

  17. #1377
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    562
    I must make one thing clear...Nobody I've spoken to from any of the lesser tier countries and organizations are trying to bite the hand that feeds them. They are happy to be part of this experience, and as you may now from some of the Sweden contingents who are upset they were not included they are not talking trash. They are well aware that MLB picks up the tab, ONCE THEY LEAVE FOR THE TOURNAMENT. Some of these countries will be spending their own money to get their team together earlier to have some workouts and that will be on their own dime. That's what they are trying to raise money for.

  18. #1378
    Great post by TheInternationalGame above. Lots to think about...

  19. #1379
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,570
    Blog Entries
    3
    12/3/11: 12/15/11:
    Tournament organizers are in the process of signing a team to replace two-time defending champion Japan and securing a venue to host the Asian round. Once those contracts are signed, Japan will no longer be able to participate.

    "These [contracts] could be done within 30 days. If it is any later it's not because we are waiting for Japan,"Jim Small, Major League baseball's vice president for Asia said Wednesday.
    2/26/12:
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    Now, I heard today, from sources I will not reveal, that an announcement will come the first week of March
    At this point, it wouldn't surprise me if there is still no announcement by the All-Star break.

  20. #1380
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    A sports field near you
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Unit312J View Post
    I must make one thing clear...Nobody I've spoken to from any of the lesser tier countries and organizations are trying to bite the hand that feeds them. They are happy to be part of this experience, and as you may now from some of the Sweden contingents who are upset they were not included they are not talking trash. They are well aware that MLB picks up the tab, ONCE THEY LEAVE FOR THE TOURNAMENT. Some of these countries will be spending their own money to get their team together earlier to have some workouts and that will be on their own dime. That's what they are trying to raise money for.
    Agree 100%...maybe I didnt word it as well as you did. Sweden is a great example, and also Croatia. The European Championship will hopefully get more attention this year, with the WBC storyline behind it.

    Most teams in the qualifiers will have a tough time financing training camps and organization; teams like NZ have a large number of their players strewn throughout the world playing all summer, but others have advantages. Czech has the Prague Baseball Week each year, Spain has a long season with an early start.

Page 69 of 192 FirstFirst ... 1959676869707179119169 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •