Jarry Park

[Sean O]

oh, sure... a couple of heavy-lift cranes to move the tons of concrete sections and reworking the foundation, (even this place needs a foundation) rework the parking and the lighting, re-grade for the larger outfield surface and add a baseball pressbox and poof it's done! so easy...

I didn't say "easy", but it would be possible. If you take most stadiums and simply take them apart, you'll have a hard time doing anything with afterward. Obviously they must have had some plan for it being reusable in some capacity, if the writeup is to be believed (with the stadium built with the potential to be moved to another site if required).

I didn't design the thing, just repeating what was written.

[Paul W]

it was torn down in '78 and never used again, many ideas are possible on paper but not in practice.

montreal mayor drapeau had many grand "ideas", but most of them were not feasible in the real world - such as autostad for baseball or paying for his grand olympics...

[zxasqw12]

From Wikipedia

Is that a hula girl and palm tree? Wishful thinking on a cold Montreal night, eh?

[ri95171]

I like how they couldn't be bothered to paint a capacity crowd at the Autostade in their own brochure.

[Bazookadale]

I like how they couldn't be bothered to paint a capacity crowd at the Autostade in their own brochure.

Well, they didn't bother to paint an event being played on the field - so I guess this is just the number of imaginary folks that would show up over lunch to stare at the grass

EDIT: Or maybe they anticipated that this would be a typical Expos crowd!

[soup]

I like how they couldn't be bothered to paint a capacity crowd at the Autostade in their own brochure.

I guess they thought it would be unrealistic to have a capacity crowd watching a big empty brown space

[Dougman59]

Looking at the drawing and pics of autostade I tried to re-configure the stadium sections for baseball using the shapes found in a powerpoint application.

What I ended up with was ....pretty much... a replica of Jarry Park.

[Gary Dunaier]

I like how they couldn't be bothered to paint a capacity crowd at the Autostade in their own brochure.

Well, they didn't bother to paint an event being played on the field - so I guess this is just the number of imaginary folks that would show up over lunch to stare at the grass

EDIT: Or maybe they anticipated that this would be a typical Expos crowd!

I guess they thought it would be unrealistic to have a capacity crowd watching a big empty brown space

Blasphemers, each and every one of you!

How dare you befoul the names of what are obviously early members of our very own stadium forum! Besides, some of us don't need a game on the field to enjoy a day at the ballpark...

[DarioMet]

It's an ugly version of my favorite non-baseball stadium, Stadio San Nicola Di Bari:

Potentially a good stadium, but one of the biggest errors in Italia '90 World Cup. It's too far from downtown, a typical "cathedral in the desert". Lack of maintenance, awful turf and huge distance between field and stands (the italian olympic committee forced architects to put an athletic track in it, never used...) made it a real mess. Pity...

[Anubis2051]

MOAT ALERT!

[Paul W]

not a moat, it is a cross aisle. you could walk from the last row to the infield railing anywhere in jarry without any physical barriers...
in places like nys you can't do that, the moat segregates economic levels!

[ol' aches and pains]

Tonight (8:00 EST) MLB Network is broadcasting a Classic Game, Pirates at Expos from 1970. Might be some good looks at the old park in there.

[Paul W]

1st game @ jarry, 4/14/69. drapeau was the egomaniac who's responsible for the big "owe".

[The Old Ballpark]

1st game @ jarry, 4/14/69. drapeau was the egomaniac who's responsible for the big "owe".

Drapeau had the greatest politician's quote in the history of politicians. Reacting to rumors that the 1976 Olympics would leave Montreal and the province of Quebec hundreds of millions of dollars in debt, which it did, he replied "the Olympics can no more lose money than a man can have a baby."

Wonder if Mayor Drapeau enjoyed the movie "Rabbit Test?"

[Paul W]

Wonder if Mayor Drapeau enjoyed the movie "Rabbit Test?"

don't know if that movie was ever translated into quebecois...

[Paul W]

stills from the keith olberman jarry park video, probably taken 8/19-21/69 vs. padres...

as usual, there isn't a camera or mirror he doesn't love.

[Calif_Eagle]

Does anyone know how much it cost in 1968 or 1969 dollars (American or Canadian, but please specify which if you respond ) to take Jarry Park from a 3,000 seat amateur ballpark to a 28,000 seat "MLB" park ? (Well... sort of an MLB park anyway.) I am one that believes that had the Expos put more money into Jarry Park over the years and just stayed there rather than moving to the "Big Owe"; Montreal might still have MLB Baseball today. The Expos could have placed luxury boxes of a sort above the top of the stands (think in terms of what the Green Bay Packers did at Lambeau Field), when those came into vogue... could have raised the scoreboard on poles to be above a section of seats, freeing up that space it had sat on for more seats,... could have possibly negotiated a move of the swimming pool, freeing up space for more outfield seating... could have added a roof over all or at least some of the existing stands... they might have wound up with both a VERY cheap, yet also very functional ballpark that seated in the range of a post cookie-cutter era, modern day park now. (40,000 or so.)

EDIT to add content: I was able to answer my own question. From the Sports Illustrated Vault (archive of old stories) Sept 28, 1970 story by Frank Deford :

(Montreal Mayor Jean) "..... Drapeau and (Mayoral Assistant Gerry) Snyder started calling around for 10% owners, which took awhile, and then began searching for a stadium, which took till past the 11th hour. What they came up with at last was Jarry Park, a temporary structure that was built, in the dead of the Canadian winter, for $3 million (Presumably $3 million Canadian). What it turned out to be is one of the two or three best places in the major leagues to watch a baseball game, and it makes the city a profit."

[Paul W]

Does anyone know how much it cost in 1968 or 1969 dollars (American or Canadian, but please specify which if you respond ) to take Jarry Park from a 3,000 seat amateur ballpark to a 28,000 seat "MLB" park ? (Well... sort of an MLB park anyway.) I am one that believes that had the Expos put more money into Jarry Park over the years and just stayed there rather than moving to the "Big Owe"; Montreal might still have MLB Baseball today. The Expos could have placed luxury boxes of a sort above the top of the stands (think in terms of what the Green Bay Packers did at Lambeau Field), when those came into vogue... could have raised the scoreboard on poles to be above a section of seats, freeing up that space it had sat on for more seats,... could have possibly negotiated a move of the swimming pool, freeing up space for more outfield seating... could have added a roof over all or at least some of the existing stands... they might have wound up with both a VERY cheap, yet also very functional ballpark that seated in the range of a post cookie-cutter era, modern day park now. (40,000 or so.)

EDIT to add content: I was able to answer my own question. From the Sports Illustrated Vault (archive of old stories) Sept 28, 1970 story by Frank Deford :

(Montreal Mayor Jean) "..... Drapeau and (Mayoral Assistant Gerry) Snyder started calling around for 10% owners, which took awhile, and then began searching for a stadium, which took till past the 11th hour. What they came up with at last was Jarry Park, a temporary structure that was built, in the dead of the Canadian winter, for $3 million (Presumably $3 million Canadian). What it turned out to be is one of the two or three best places in the major leagues to watch a baseball game, and it makes the city a profit."

expos would not have survived in an open-air park that that had little cover. the initial enthusiam would have died off and free agents would have been less interested that they already were.

besides, the main reason that the n.l. granted the franchise was due to the promise of a domed stadium to com. without this - no franchise...

[Calif_Eagle]

expos would not have survived in an open-air park that that had little cover. the initial enthusiam would have died off and free agents would have been less interested that they already were.

besides, the main reason that the n.l. granted the franchise was due to the promise of a domed stadium to com. without this - no franchise...

Its true that the Expos wouldnt have gotten the franchise without the promise of a domed stadium to come. However, the Expos played in Jarry Park for 8 years and as a place to play it wasnt terrible. Especially considering the team never considered just staying there and thus put little money into making it better. More seats, luxury boxes, some roofing, moving or raising the scoreboard for seats or a restaurant with a field view, moving the pool, adding features and amenities on the concourses... Any or all these things *might* have made a huge difference. I think free agents just dont like playing in Canada in general with the currency exchange and travel issues it brings. The Montreal Royals had a long and successful minor league run at Delorimier Downs, which wasnt all that as a ballpark. (See the picture of it at Wikipedia > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delorimier_Stadium ) The Boston Red Sox have played just shy of 100 years in a small ballpark with no parking and very little roof cover and have done just fine.

People that want to see the game would come to Jarry Park. Especially one improved along the lines I suggested. People that need to go to a Disneyland might not enjoy it so much. I personally think its pathetic that cities with many more pressing needs spend millions upon millions of dollars to build playgrounds to attract casual fans and even non fans, just because thats what everyone else is doing. I think what I outlined above is more than adequate and defensible too. The game looks the same from a seat in either type of ballpark.

[tinseltown]

If the Expos were going to invest in building their own ballpark, rather than throwing up a quick temporary location, then a downtown location would have been best, with good access to hotels, restaurants, and the highway network.

[Paul W]

If the Expos were going to invest in building their own ballpark, rather than throwing up a quick temporary location, then a downtown location would have been best, with good access to hotels, restaurants, and the highway network.

and almost no parking.
the canadiens beat them to the downtown location, ever seen the traffic after a game there?
with max. crowds of 19K, it's still a mess...

[JaysExpos]

The what-ifs from Calif Eagle are just too much. It would've worked as yet another innovative approach from the Expos, instead of following the pack and moving into a multipurpose stadium. Sad but true.

and almost no parking.
the canadiens beat them to the downtown location, ever seen the traffic after a game there?
with max. crowds of 19K, it's still a mess...

More parking would attract more cars to the area. You'd think if there's "almost no parking" around the Bell Centre, traffic would be a lot better, because the lack of parking spots would attract almost no cars to the area. You're right on a subway line and commuter rail hub. You don't need to bulldoze the area for parking.

[Paul W]

The what-ifs from Calif Eagle are just too much. It would've worked as yet another innovative approach from the Expos, instead of following the pack and moving into a multipurpose stadium. Sad but true.
More parking would attract more cars to the area. You'd think if there's "almost no parking" around the Bell Centre, traffic would be a lot better, because the lack of parking spots would attract almost no cars to the area. You're right on a subway line and commuter rail hub. You don't need to bulldoze the area for parking.

i've been to the bell centre and seen the traffic after canadiens games.
i've spent enough time in town to know that as good as metro is, auto traffic is still heavy.
do you think that folks who don't live/work near metro aren't gonna drive to games?

mlb now requires a minimum number of parking spaces for all new mallparks, more than the nhl does. the bell centre needs fewer spaces because of the smaller capacity. the downtown mallpark for the expos was a bad concept.

[JaysExpos]

i've been to the bell centre and seen the traffic after canadiens games.
i've spent enough time in town to know that as good as metro is, auto traffic is still heavy.
do you think that folks who don't live/work near metro aren't gonna drive to games?

mlb now requires a minimum number of parking spaces for all new mallparks, more than the nhl does. the bell centre needs fewer spaces because of the smaller capacity. the downtown mallpark for the expos was a bad concept.

Traffic at Dodger games is many times worse, and they have all the parking spaces in the world. It's bad urban planning/design to have too many parking spaces. A balanced approach is required. One of the great things about the new Twins ballpark is the wealth of transportation options you have (light rail, bike, car, bus, etc.) Do you happen to know what the minimum number of spaces is for new parks? I think that with this minimum plus the subway + commuter rail, transportation would be adequate for a ballpark at that location.

[Paul W]

Do you happen to know what the minimum number of spaces is for new parks? I think that with this minimum plus the subway + commuter rail, transportation would be adequate for a ballpark at that location.

not without more parking than that location could handle.
40K seat mallparks have between 10 - 14K spaces. 20K seat arena need half (or less) than that.