Citi Field

[dstoffa]

I thought most casinos were around the $5 figure

Actually, I need to revise my statement about casinos. There are normal ATMs at casinos, and then there are those Cash Advance Machines, where you buy casino chips via credit card. I recall 'fees' being charged by casinos being no more than $5, but the juice to buy chips to be something ridiculous, like 10 percent or something.

[dstoffa]

The "safest" thing to do is re-generate the barcode (need barcode software to get the style right) and photoshop it into an e-ticket along with the right date and seat location. If done right there's not much chance of anyone denying you entry

Well, I tested the theory at last night's game.

I scanned a ticket at 300 dpi color. I printed the ticket (even stretched it to fit the margins of the page), printed greyscale on a laser printer. Scanner at gate took the ticket no worries. I just folded the paper over so that only the bar code was visible. Nobody blinked an eye. No 'bar code touch up' required.

I would gather that this would still cause issues if you had seat / usher issues, but is probably a decent way to forward tickets to friends who know your seats or will meet at the game instead of having to deal with will call, waiting outside, or having to run down to the gate for a hand pass.

Cheers!
-Doug

[SparkyL]

Regarding the tarps over the ends of the bulpen; if the Mets want to protect the players from falling objects, why can't they just install a net so you can actually see the players?

[Mongoose]

The link did not work, but a search for "Mets" and "Trophy" at that domain brought me to the page showing the piece.

It's not THE World Series Trophy, but claims to be one of THREE REPLICAS ordered by the team's owners for display.

Safe to say that this is NOT the one that was in ye olde Diamond Club.

Cheers!
-Doug

Here's the thread in the Mets forum with a working link to the auction:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=91639

Read this text from the item's description:

Unlike the standard-size World Series trophies, which are issued to players, coaches, and front office executives, only a very limited number of owner's trophies are produced each year. Normally the team owner or owners get one and another is ordered for display in the team's office. According to our consignor, this is one of only three New York Mets owner's trophies ordered by the club to commemorate its 1986 World Championship.

This was almost certainly the display one. I guess we won't be seeing it in the Mets Hall of Fame... Assuming Wilpon really has been shamed into building one.

It's going to get worse. Look, assume for a second the economy didn't unravel just in time for the inaugural season in the new park. They didn't WANT the old fans back! They were hoping to sell the new, very expensive and very chic seats in the new place to business people who, by and large, are really the only steady customers for $200 everyday tickets.

There was something written about Shea Stadium before it opened; that it was "designed to lure fans away from their televisions and into the ballpark." The new way of doing things now in MLB is the exact opposite. The modern baseball customer isn't the fanny-in-the-seat anymore. Nowadays the fans are what's being sold to the real clients, i.e. the advertisers. They would rather the little guy stay home and watch on TV. By pushing up the ratings they have a better "product" to sell to the advertisers. The only people they want in their new stadium (actually it's owned by New York City, but that's only a technicality) are those people - businessmen looking for deductible entertainment expenses and Richy Rich Wall Street/Madison Avenue types - don't flinch at a $500 ticket, a $200 stadium restaurant tab or a $300 bar tab. That's the lowest social and economic rung on the ladder they were hoping to cater to in the new stadium. They just don't care if average low income people like us can afford to attend the games or not. And believe me, if you make under $200,000 a year then you are what they define as "low income" out there in 11368 these days.

But then the economy tanked and threw a monkey wrench into their plans. All of a sudden half of their "preferred fan base" had their incomes, net worth, and future prospects put into a downward trajectory. Once things begin to pick back up again in a couple of years they will make it even more difficult for the "average fan" to be able to afford going to the games in person. They already project a 4% increase in ticket prices each year for the next 5 years so don't hold your breath waiting for more affordable tickets.

This is one of the best posts I've ever read on this forum.

As soon as I heard the details of the new stadium, I understood what it meant. I got a lot of flack on this forum for pointing these sorts of things out last year. At this point, it seems more people are beginning to comprehend the level of contempt current ownership has for anything involving this team and its fans other than how best to wring every last cent out of them.

But guess what? We're not as over a barrel as this post implies. We can always choose to not watch. Starting around 1992/93 after Wilpon dismantled the 1986 team, I took an extended break from paying much attention to the Mets. If ownership insists on wringing all the money out of the team, and wringing the joy out with it, we don't even have to boost Fred's ratings or television income.

It's a big league and a big world. This team doesn't have a monopoly on entertainment.

[mandrake]

Regarding the tarps over the ends of the bulpen; if the Mets want to protect the players from falling objects, why can't they just install a net so you can actually see the players?

Maybe they are concerned about liquids, like beer.

I recall years ago McReynolds having a beer poured on his face in Wrigley by a coward in the bleachers.

Take an idiot, juice him up with beer, and he becomes very brave in the crowd.

[GordonGecko]

Well, I tested the theory at last night's game.

I scanned a ticket at 300 dpi color. I printed the ticket (even stretched it to fit the margins of the page), printed greyscale on a laser printer. Scanner at gate took the ticket no worries. I just folded the paper over so that only the bar code was visible. Nobody blinked an eye. No 'bar code touch up' required.

I would gather that this would still cause issues if you had seat / usher issues, but is probably a decent way to forward tickets to friends who know your seats or will meet at the game instead of having to deal with will call, waiting outside, or having to run down to the gate for a hand pass.

Cheers!
-Doug

Well right now people are only talking openly about this on a couple message boards, eventually this will become common knowledge and get the Mets attention and they will look at every ticket. Also, eventually every usher will have a handheld scanner that will return the exact seat location for every barcode and tell them how many times a ticket has been scanned to get into the section. For now e-tickets are in the wild west infancy of existence and there's a lot of potential for abuse. There's one team I have tickets for that uses a sequential system for barcodes!! (not exactly 1-2-3-4 but something simple enough to crack). I couldn't believe it, it's so easy to print out the next barcode in the sequence from one stub from a season ticket holder. Like I said, wild wild west.

[SparkyL]

Maybe they are concerned about liquids, like beer.

I recall years ago McReynolds having a beer poured on his face in Wrigley by a coward in the bleachers.

Take an idiot, juice him up with beer, and he becomes very brave in the crowd.

Perhaps, but CF is not the only place to have fans over the pens and the possibility of liquid spillage (including NYS) and they don't have anything.

IMO it makes no sense at all to "feature" the pens like they did and then cover it with a tarp. It looked great during the exhibition games. At least use a clear tarp or cover those sections with plexiglass.

[tfc3rid]

Speaking of the bullpens, I noticed last night a Lincoln-Mercury ad located on the 'Step' between the Mets pen and the visitors pen... The funny thing is, the Xerox sign blocks the 'Mercury' portion of the ad...

[tomkaz]

going foward from today, I will be referring Citi Field as "PityField".

Def - pity :Pity evokes a tender or sometimes slightly contemptuous sorrow or empathy for a people, person, or animal in misery, pain, or distress. ...

may the lord understand my pity that i have endured this season...make it stop!!

oh the pain!!!!!

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Newsday agrees on my piti field idea.........i mentioned it yesterday on their site and it is getting it's wings.



http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...2933121.column

Maybe they should call it Piti Field
Ken Davidoff
12:43 AM EDT, July 8, 2009
Citi Field has turned into the world's largest dentist's office. The patrons have grown so numb to the pain, they barely acknowledge it.

Last night's abominable 8-0 loss to the Dodgers marked a low point in what is quickly turning into an all-time Mets blowup season - which is saying something, given this franchise's history of heartbreak.

"I just think we stink right now," David Wright said.

"It's almost like a team funk right now," Jerry Manuel said.



Ken Davidoff Bio | E-mail | Recent columns


Right now, against a playoff-caliber team like Manny Ramirez's and Joe Torre's Dodgers, the Mets - 39-43, their most games under .500 since 2005 - are woefully outmanned. Read your box score this morning and compare the two clubs' starting lineups, position by position. I gave the Mets the advantage at one slot - David Wright over Casey Blake at third base. I gave the Dodgers the edge at the other eight.

Which makes us wonder what in the world Omar Minaya was thinking, before Tuesday's game, when he said this:

"We hope that, as guys are getting back, we'll be in contention. The way guys have battled back, I think we will."

With this group? Without a high-impact trade (which, to reiterate, I wouldn't recommend if it came at the cost of a good prospect)?

It's nearly impossible to buy what Omar is selling.

Minaya took the time to meet with the media to update the public on the rehabilitation of Jose Reyes (bad - he received a cortisone shot) and Carlos Beltran (bad - he won't even be evaluated again until the All-Star break). After he professed his belief that this Mets team - with Oliver Perez and Angel Pagan the only injured guys returning any time soon - could hang in there, I pressed Minaya on what gave him such faith.

"I'm basing my hope on the fact that, even though we've been losing certain games, we are in a lot of these games," Minaya said. "We just came from a stretch when we played 21 consecutive days.

"I think that these guys here, we need to stay in contention. We do have another half a season left to play. That's a lot of time. We hope that, by the time these guys come back, we're in striking distance or, hopefully, ahead."

Ahead? Of whom, exactly? The rioting fans, chasing them with bats?

Don't even bother with the "grit/toughness/stick-to-itiveness" talk. This is just a terrible Mets team. They're so bad that, when they actually put together something resembling a rally, they make poor decisions, as Luis Castillo did when he tried to go from first to third on Alex Cora's one-out single in the third. Matt Kemp, the Dodgers' talented centerfielder, threw out Castillo, and the Mets didn't reach second base for the rest of the evening.

Surprisingly, the poor play didn't generate that many boos. Neither did Ramirez; maybe it's just the "corporate crowd" we all feared. Yet it's almost like the crowd has been sobered by what has gone down that it enters the ballpark with minimal expectations.

It's a nightmare for a franchise that viewed this stadium-opening season, coming off two straight final-day collapses, as crucial.

"We just have to take it day by day," Wright said.

It's more like injury by injury. Their only real hope is for the Phillies and Marlins to play so poorly that, should their star players return, the Mets are still within shouting distance.

It's no way to exist for the team with the National League's highest payroll. No way to win over new fans at higher ticket prices

[dstoffa]

Well right now people are only talking openly about this on a couple message boards, eventually this will become common knowledge and get the Mets attention and they will look at every ticket. Also, eventually every usher will have a handheld scanner that will return the exact seat location for every barcode and tell them how many times a ticket has been scanned to get into the section. For now e-tickets are in the wild west infancy of existence and there's a lot of potential for abuse.

I don't think they'll ever really crack down on these paper e-tickets... at least not for some time. As it stands right now, the bar codes serve as a means for the club to count attendance and how often tickets are used. I don't think they care how the bar code is presented as long as it gets presented, provided information like section, row, seat, and date are accurate. The only issue they will have to deal with is them not being able to charge people for the transfer. This is a grey area. I personally would never give photocopies / scans of my tickets to anyone whom I didn't personally know. My efforts here were to simply see if I could hand off a ticket to a mate w/o having to deal with the club's transfer method or will call.

When it comes to falsifying a ticket to attempt theft of goods and services, then that is definitely an issue that will rear its ugly head once the club chooses to have secondary security at places such as club entrances and such. I'd think the club will allow fans to police themselves (usher summoned when two fans have tickets to the same seat) as it comes to sections, but this will become an issue when the lower bowl is empty because nobody wants to see a team play. I can't see an usher being employed whose sole job is to electronically scan a ticket every time people enter and leave a section of seating. Maybe they install turnstiles everywhere... That I can see. Ushers may look at a ticket, but imagine the queues between innings if they had to punch everyone in and out...

There's one team I have tickets for that uses a sequential system for barcodes!! (not exactly 1-2-3-4 but something simple enough to crack). I couldn't believe it, it's so easy to print out the next barcode in the sequence from one stub from a season ticket holder. Like I said, wild wild west.

That's ridiculous.... That type of security is like assuming something is safe because nobody knows its there... Kind of like an ostrich. Did you bring it to their attention?

Cheers!
-Doug

[GordonGecko]

That's ridiculous.... That type of security is like assuming something is safe because nobody knows its there... Kind of like an ostrich. Did you bring it to their attention?

I have not, but I may write them a letter about it. I scan and save all my ticket barcodes in a spreadsheet so it's really easy to spot patterns. Most teams will have repeating blocks of 2 or 3 numbers, but in no particular order and not in a way that you can pinpoint what barcodes will correspond to any particular game.

[robardin]

But guess what? We're not as over a barrel as this post implies. We can always choose to not watch. ... It's a big league and a big world. This team doesn't have a monopoly on entertainment.

Or as I like to remind myself whenever I get too worked up about anything sports related: "It's only a game. And you're not even playing in it."

[Gary Dunaier]

I can't see an usher being employed whose sole job is to electronically scan a ticket every time people enter and leave a section of seating.

How is that different from now, where they have people at the top of the aisles at each section - on the Field Level at Citi, and on all levels at Yankee Stiadium - whose only responsibility, it seems, is to check everyone's ticket?

[dstoffa]

How is that different from now, where they have people at the top of the aisles at each section - on the Field Level at Citi, and on all levels at Yankee Stiadium - whose only responsibility, it seems, is to check everyone's ticket?

Checking tickets visually upon entering a section is one thing. Having to scan a ticket when a person leaves a section and having to scan a ticket when that person returns to the section is getting absurd. They'd be better off installing iron maiden turnstiles at the top of each section, and fence off each section so that nobody can just walk through the sections.

Ushers at Giants Stadium check tickets visually for entry into the lower bowl and mezzanine seats. They don't scan them. I don't see it as being practical. Can you imagine ushers holding people back during a rain storm. "Sorry, you will have to wait in the rain while we scan your tickets to document your exit from the section." Ridiculous.

[ribant]

Checking tickets visually upon entering a section is one thing. Having to scan a ticket when a person leaves a section and having to scan a ticket when that person returns to the section is getting absurd. They'd be better off installing iron maiden turnstiles at the top of each section, and fence off each section so that nobody can just walk through the sections.

Ushers at Giants Stadium check tickets visually for entry into the lower bowl and mezzanine seats. They don't scan them. I don't see it as being practical. Can you imagine ushers holding people back during a rain storm. "Sorry, you will have to wait in the rain while we scan your tickets to document your exit from the section." Ridiculous.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would they need to scan your ticket when you leave your seat?

[GordonGecko]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would they need to scan your ticket when you leave your seat?

yeah they wouldn't. And in terms of checking tickets going in, it could be a random thing when the usher doesn't recognize you

[thrill5one6]

I haven't been around as much lately with the Mets slumping but am I going crazy or did StubHub change the color of their Citi Field seating chart?

[GordonGecko]

I haven't been around as much lately with the Mets slumping but am I going crazy or did StubHub change the color of their Citi Field seating chart?

Don't know, but these are the current CF maps for the Mets and for Concerts:

[dstoffa]

Maybe I'm missing something here, but why would they need to scan your ticket when you leave your seat?

Earlier in the discussion, we (namely GG) wrote that electronic paper e-tickets are new kids on block, and we are entering the wild wild west. It was written that there is potential to abuse the system... namely, falsifying bar codes and such, and heck, even falsifying tickets to 'steal services'. Gecko mentioned that, in the not too distant future, all ushers in the park will have scanners and will be required to scan (not visually inspect) your ticket if you intend to enter a certain section.

Obviously, you can always take two stubs, go to the head, and escort another mate down into an otherwise empty seat. You can continue doing this unless management finally catches wind, and forces you to punch in and punch out of your section, thereby enforcing the one-to-one relationship between body, ticket, and seat.

In the old days, you needed Field Level tickets to gain access to the field level seating concourse at Shea. Let us say you had two tickets. You and your buddy could enter and go to your seats. Then, one of you can leave with both studs, leave the field level, meet up with another buddy, and bring him in, too.

In the future, if you had two *good* tickets, they COULD force you to scan your ticket upon entering and exiting the section. One person, one scan. Sure, you could leave with both stubs, but a competent usher would only scan one stub when you exited. When you try to sneak your buddy in, one of the stubs is gonna get gonged, and your buddy is not going to be allowed back into the section with you, because the scanner says the person is already there.....

It would be required if a sports team feels that fake tickets are being used to get the better of them.

Cheers!
-Doug

[Shea1012]

Does anyone have an old ticket from the Excel level they can email me

[dstoffa]

yeah they wouldn't. And in terms of checking tickets going in, it could be a random thing when the usher doesn't recognize you

Agreed here. Scanning would be a spot check to ensure the ticket is valid if an usher has a gut feeling about something. A falsified ticket would get gonged by the scanner. It would be a nightmare if they had to scan going both ways.

[Gary Dunaier]

Ushers at Giants Stadium check tickets visually for entry into the lower bowl and mezzanine seats. They don't scan them. I don't see it as being practical. Can you imagine ushers holding people back during a rain storm. "Sorry, you will have to wait in the rain while we scan your tickets to document your exit from the section." Ridiculous.

Yes, I can imagine ushers holding people back during a rainstorm at Giants Stadium.

They don't allow you to bring umbrellas, even if the event is a "rain or shine" thing and rain is definitely in the forecast. (For example, some of the Springsteen shows he did there in 2003.)

So I don't see them giving a damn about the paying customers getting soaked as long as their petty micromanaging rules are being followed.

[Late Innings]

I think the front office is willing to cut their loses this season as ticket sales for the new park have been pretty good and with Bobby V becoming available, going to the post season would only leave them with egg on their faces making a move against Jerry. But face it.. Jerry is lost as a mgr... HoJo should have been fired a while ago... Warthen hasn't impressed anyone....
I think they're cutting bait as far as a winning season is concerned, they're not hurting on revenue from ticket sales right now, we have a terrible year, everyone wants Jerry and his kids gone. In comes Bobby V and we look towards 2010....

Just a thought.

[StillShea]

As for that 4 % increase? The Mets , if they do not make the post season, will see a drop off by a much larger percentage than a price increase. It's called diminishing returns and I see at least a 20% reduction at Citi next season (if they miss the playoffs).

The Mets themselves project a 5% decline in paid attendance and a 16% decline in actual attendance between now and 2013. This is in line with their 4% annual ticket price increases. What team, intent on fielding squads good enough to win championships, projects real declines in attendance in a brand spanking new ballpark??? Roll that one around in your head for awhile and the conclusions are inescapable.

As soon as I heard the details of the new stadium, I understood what it meant. I got a lot of flack on this forum for pointing these sorts of things out last year. At this point, it seems more people are beginning to comprehend the level of contempt current ownership has for anything involving this team and its fans other than how best to wring every last cent out of them.

I've only been here a short time but I would have backed you up on those sentiments. I don't know if I'd call it "contempt" as much "committment to the bottom line", and truth be told I can't see where any other possible owner would do anything different. This is, after all, the #1 television market in the country and the advertising-over-tickets business model is only workable in the larger markets.

The 2 local NFL teams used their new stadium to cleanse their season ticket waiting lists of undesirables, too.

But guess what? We're not as over a barrel as this post implies. We can always choose to not watch.

That's true, but boycotts never work. For every fan who is tired of being played for a sucker who opts out there are 10 more waiting to take his place. Not to mention that you have no choice but to pay the SNY tax if you want anything over basic cable.

[Mongoose]

That's true, but boycotts never work. For every fan who is tired of being played for a sucker who opts out there are 10 more waiting to take his place. Not to mention that you have no choice but to pay the SNY tax if you want anything over basic cable.

Nobody's talking about a boycott. I'm sick of this team. What's there to root for on any level? A lot of people are coming to this realization about baseball on the whole; it's not just Mets fans.

These team owners who focus on the bottom line have lost sight of the big picture. People are realizing there's nothing decent to root for in this whole set up. With no rooting interest one way or the other, baseball has little entertainment value for most; the reason the bulk of fans watch their teams becomes lost. Fans tend to view their teams as on-the-field surrogates for themselves. A level of perceived mutual loyalty is necessary to maintain this dynamic. Remove this loyalty and people will eventually move on to something else.

An organized boycott isn't necessary. Competition for people's attention and entertainment dollars is fierce. The methods baseball is using to wring their consumers dry are repellent and will have a negative ultimate effect on the sport. So baseball has decided to shut out families and waste its seed corn on decrepit businessmen with expense accounts? O.K. then: Fewer children will have baseball imprinted on their consciousnesses and in 20 years the impact of these horrible stadiums will be manifested in a further decline in the fan base.

The market isn't static; circumstances aren't static. With 162 game a years, teams are massively reliant on having people attend baseball games in order to drive sales at the malls the stadiums have become. Anything from a change in ticket deductibility to a general change in entertainment tastes to fluctuations in the economy could deal these bottom line watchers a heavy blow and have them screaming for mercy.

They are not all-knowing.

At the end of the day they're squandering the goodwill it took baseball 150 years to build and no good will come of it for them.