Iron Triangle/Willets Point Demolition/Redevelopment

[metsforever7515]

You guys can argue this all you want but sooner or later your going to have to face the facts. The Iron Triangle is a scene out of a foreign slum, and is going to be demolished and a complex is going to be put up in its place.

[SilentKiller]

So because they aren't permanent it's pointless?

Temporary jobs are not as important as permanent jobs and there are a bunch of people in the Willets Point who have permanent jobs and are making a living in Willets Point. I'm sure the Willets Point people are seeing what's happening in Downtown Brooklyn and are ready for a fight with the knowledge that they have a chance to win.

[NYMets523]

Temporary jobs are not as important as permanent jobs and there are a bunch of people in the Willets Point who have permanent jobs and are making a living in Willets Point.

So the 3000 jobs currently there are worth more than the 5000 jobs from the construction plus the 3000 new jobs that will be created after the redevelopment?

I'm sure the Willets Point people are seeing what's happening in Downtown Brooklyn and are ready for a fight with the knowledge that they have a chance to win.

Downtown Brooklyn didn't have a stadium to compete against.

[BiggieSmalls]

the job creation numbers are 20,000 construction jobs over the 10 years of the development and 5,000 full time jobs including hotel union jobs and teaching jobs.

This compares to the 1200 jobs in Willets where over 80% (WPIRA number) are undocumented illegal residents who dont speak ANY english.

$12/an hour was pulled out of thin air with no supporting information

[BiggieSmalls]

I'm sure the Willets Point people are seeing what's happening in Downtown Brooklyn and are ready for a fight with the knowledge that they have a chance to win.


Downtown Brooklyn? You mean Atlantic Yards? The judge in that case just dismissed the Develop Dont Destroy Brooklyn petition to vacate the environmental study and is widely believed to soon (within the next 12 weeks) rule against the DDDB eminent domain petition.

Ratner has said he will break ground on the stadium this year for completion in 2011./ He has already demolished most of the structures in the AY development district.

How is that a chance to win?

[metsforever7515]

Found 2 more pictures of what it's going to look like:

[Fudbutter]

I know that a lot of you folks really want to see the Iron Triangle redeveloped. As I’ve seen people say, it does look like Mumbai a bit. In fact of the 30 or so MLB parks I’ve been to, it might be the ugliest area around any park I’ve seen.

The sad truth is that the project of which you speak is doomed to failure. There’s a reason that these business are there to begin with. It’s backed into a triangle (duh) in the butt end of the borough, the least inhabitable area in all of Queens within the direct approach of one of the busiest airports in the country. The type of businesses that they are would require years of expensive remediation, very very expensive remediation, to the point that the recovery of the costs to do so may not happen in your lifetime. You assume these businesses will move elsewhere. Where? Do you want them in your neighborhood?

For approx 80 or so dates, the area is flooded by ballpark goers. Most people show up just before the game and leave either before the game is over or immediately after. Any restaurant’s success is measured by covers (the number of meals served). The places would be empty the rest of the time, which spells death for eateries. Hotels? There is already enough in the area. The only purpose they serve is for early morning flyers. Now there will be much less business flying, permanently. There will be less conventions, permanently. Would you invest in such businesses?

Housing? Have you seen the neighborhood in any direction? Who do you think will move in there? People from the Upper East Side? Either you build housing for incoming immigrants or you’ll have a see though building. Death for real estate. This does not forebode well for any retail business opening nearby either.

Someone here keeps talking about our shrinking public services; police, teachers, etc. Of course we have more than any US City. We are bigger than anyone else. Still, we do not have enough and the ones we do have do not have enough support. If you have any hope that this city will survive as an economic force, these areas need to be addressed now, not some special interest for a purpose doomed to fail. Add in the fact that our infrastructure (mass transport, bridges, highways, etc) is crumbling beyond hope of repair, you have an irresponsible act to use $1 of public funds on the project.

Conclusion? “Cleaning up” the Iron Triangle is a poor use of public funds and certainly a huge mistake by any investor or financier of any part of this project. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is the stone cold truth. I’m afraid that this area will be a huge embarrassment for as long as CF stands.

[BiggieSmalls]

The sad truth is that the project of which you speak is doomed to failure. There’s a reason that these business are there to begin with. It’s backed into a triangle (duh) in the butt end of the borough, the least inhabitable area in all of Queens within the direct approach of one of the busiest airports in the country.

No. It is situated between two dof the most diverse, fastest growing sections of Queens (Corona and Flushing) and right next to the largest park in the City and public transportation. As far as its proximity to the airport. Howard Beach Queens is a clean, community directly in the flight path of a larger airport and it has thrived.

The type of businesses that they are would require years of expensive remediation, very very expensive remediation, to the point that the recovery of the costs to do so may not happen in your lifetime. You assume these businesses will move elsewhere. Where? Do you want them in your neighborhood?

They could cap the area very easily. It is done in areas many times larger than the 60 some acres we are talking about

For approx 80 or so dates, the area is flooded by ballpark goers. Most people show up just before the game and leave either before the game is over or immediately after. Any restaurant’s success is measured by covers (the number of meals served).
The places would be empty the rest of the time, which spells death for eateries. Hotels? There is already enough in the area. The only purpose they serve is for early morning flyers. Now there will be much less business flying, permanently.

Again. Right next to a thriving ethnically diverse area of Flushing and conveniently near a major airport and the largest park in the city. Hotels? You mean the Holiday Inn? The new Hotel could serve the new convention center for regional events.

There will be less conventions, permanently. Would you invest in such businesses?

What evidence do you have that conventions and air travel is in permanent decline?

Housing? Have you seen the neighborhood in any direction? Who do you think will move in there? People from the Upper East Side? Either you build housing for incoming immigrants or you’ll have a see though building. Death for real estate. This does not forebode well for any retail business opening nearby either.

we are talking about 40% affordable. And many many immigrant families coming from over all over the world would love to live in an area such as this. The asian population in Corona and Flushing is exploding. There is a structural housing shortage in NYC and we will need substantial housing stock over the next few decades. Again, 40% affordable is proposed. And this is REAL affordable housing.

Someone here keeps talking about our shrinking public services; police, teachers, etc. Of course we have more than any US City. We are bigger than anyone else. Still, we do not have enough and the ones we do have do not have enough support.

Three times as many as Los Angeles? A City with 5 times the land mass and half the residents? Three times as many as we have FBI Agents in the whole U.S.? How many police is enough?

If you have any hope that this city will survive as an economic force, these areas need to be addressed now, not some special interest for a purpose doomed to fail. Add in the fact that our infrastructure (mass transport, bridges, highways, etc) is crumbling beyond hope of repair, you have an irresponsible act to use $1 of public funds on the project.

this IS a small investment for a HUGE long term return in terms of housing, environmental cleanup, jobs, lifestyle and taxe revenue. It is precisely the type of long term project the NYC government should be taking on and supporting..

Conclusion? “Cleaning up” the Iron Triangle is a poor use of public funds and certainly a huge mistake by any investor or financier of any part of this project. I wish it wasn’t so, but it is the stone cold truth. I’m afraid that this area will be a huge embarrassment for as long as CF stands.

Other larger, more environmentally screwed up areas have been cleaned up and developed into revenue generating beautiful areas. This is not rocket science. All it takes is the political willpower to focus on it and make it happen.. And that is what Bloomberg has done here.

Within a few years the iron triangle will be no more and it will be a happy happy day for all new yorkers that a blight such as this has been eradicated from the greatest country in the world. That a place like the Iron Triangle exists has been a pox on our city and country for too long.

[Mongoose]

Within a few years the iron triangle will be no more and it will be a happy happy day for all new yorkers that a blight such as this has been eradicated from the greatest country in the world. That a place like the Iron Triangle exists has been a pox on our city and country for too long.

What a joke: you're talking about a productive, blue collar area that generates jobs and tax revenue like it's a cross between a Charles Dickens slum and a brothel. Shame on you.

That big time hustlers and billionaires continue to generate big boondoggles, pocket all the profits, and stick the public with the bill is the real pox on our city and country.

You need look no further than our deficits, both municipal and national, for proof.

[MyNameIsMURRAY]

Ok guys, time for me to jump right into the fray:

First, can we respectfully disagree with Mongoose? (he/she) obviously is concerned with the back room dealings between NYC politicians and the billionaire developers who love making a buck at the taxpayers expense.

To talk about Willets point you have to start with Citi Field. For those of you who have been following the CF thread you may know I have mixed feelings about the place. The Wilpons have given us a marvelous new home for our favorite obsession. The place is gorgeous- a true architectural achievement with amazing attention to detail. Everywhere you look there is evidence of the Wilpons deep personal involvement in the design. From the outfield restaurant to the meeting areas near the rotunda it is clear CF has all the amenities a sports/entertainment business in NYC could need. I have to admit I am impressed.

Ok, but Citi truly is the anti-Shea. Gone is the democratic egalitarianism of the bowl. Gone are the indistinct ramps where people of all levels would funnel out together after the game (win or lose it was always a fun time walking down those ramps). And most importantly gone are most of the cheap seats.

Say what you want about the aesthetics of the two buildings but the different styles in architecture say everything about the two times. Our priorities as a society have changed so entirely from the years when Shea was planned and constructed.

Of course there is tremendous irony in the opening of Citi Field. For starters the name, which boldly displays the logo of the largest bank in the world- a bank that has become so disgustingly large that we have been told is "too big to fail". Citi has become a global icon for all that is wrong with the world's financial system: a massive problem that has everything to do with the scale between the individual and the institutions that control money. I know people think we are in some small recession here, but sorry. We you are seeing is the breaking down of a system that has become both amoral and unsustainable. I am not sure the Wilpons from their vantage point (you know, with all their Bernie dealings) are able to see all this.

I know guys but this thread has opened this can o' worms...

Citi Field, which does have some public financing, is hardly the worst example of the problems associated with public/private development in NYC. The Mets had a clear idea of how CF should look based on their needs as a MLB franchise. The Atlantic Yards by contrast shows the dangers of the City entering into more open-ended agreements with private developers. My beloved Nets, who I desperately want to move to Brooklyn, may never move because their owner is engaged in a deadlock with a community group. Both sides are fighting to a draw because they cannot come to any compromise on the scale of the project. The plans have already been altered breaking the original agreement that lead the city to claim eminent domain. With the change in plans there is no longer any guarantee that any of the negotiated public benefits such as affordable housing will ever be built. This is despite large public subsidies. Without oversight the Atlantic Yards will likely become an engine for turning public dollars into private profit for Forest City Ratner- all while displacing poorer communities. This is not economic growth, it is economic stratification.

So yes, Willets Point needs to be bulldozed and the area desperately needs the environmental cleanup. The workers there need to be retrained, taught english and naturalized so they are not just displaced. Responsible development needs to take place so that Flushing becomes a New York destination. But as US citizens in a time of crises it is our duty to not just get behind another scheme to make another billionaire richer. Especially for a project that DOES NOT YET HAVE AN ACTUAL PLAN. Don't be fooled by that artist rendering the city only has a vague and changing idea of what will be built at Willets Point.

Wow that was long. Ok no more, for now I will be quiet. What do you guys think?

[MyNameIsMURRAY]

That a place like the Iron Triangle exists has been a pox on our city and country for too long.

I agree with some of your points but that goes too far. There are some decent people and some not-so-decent people who rely on the Iron Triangle to survive. I think if we can't show sensitivity to the people whose lives this will actually effect then we should just end the conversation now. Obviously the solution lies somewhere between just bulldoze the damn place and keep it as is. Let's leave the hyperbole for another forum...

[BiggieSmalls]

OVer 50% of the land mass in the Iron Triangle has been purchased from the existing land owners.

Major businesses int he IT are in process of being relocated to larger, cleaner locations in College Point.

The City is in process of relocating the more than 200 auto body shops

Workers are receiving free job and basic english lessons as a result of this project.

No one is being thrown aside and plowed under by bull dozers. That is just not happening.

Like the slums of third world countries PICTURES of the Iron Triangle have been used in Communist School text books to teach young students that some U.S. citizens live and work in filthy, slum conditions in Free lands.

[JerseeJerry55]

You made a big assumption that Sterling Equities is the developer of the Willets Point area. That is very unlikely and probably completely incorrect.

So you are talking about retail space? What? The team store? a few locations in the Admin building? really?? that is an enormous amount of added revenue?

Sure The Mets want the place to be a mixed use entertainment/retail/hotel complex but I think the benefits of building this are largely asthetic for the Mets.

Who wants that Hot Mess less than 30 feet from your front door? I would think they would rather have a decent neighborhood to walk outside the Admin offices on a cold January night than have to have an armed escort to get to your car.

Again, the benefit to ALL new yorkers, in terms of entertainment/hotel/convention and retail .. not to mention the added housing stock far out weighs moving 200 or so tenant businesses to a real industrial park -- like Steinway or College Point.

Additionally wouldn't there be added revenue if restaurants, hotels, etc that would also cater to the business travelers flying in and out of LaGuardia 365.25 days a year. The last time I was at Shea the chop shops across the street weren't serving meals, or drinks to those travelers. If they can build up the area, and make it a viable means of income, and reduce the chance of crime, etc. isn't that a good thing?

[Fudbutter]

This argument has turned into a Tastes Great vs Less Filling silliness. Chances are that the answer lies somewhere in the middle 62%, it usually does.

Instead, let's take this step by step to examine the viability of the project all the way through to the end. Follow the money so to speak.

First step is to remove the establishments currently occupying the location. we'll worry about environmental remediation, construction, finance, market sustainability afterwards.

We need to determine the gross costs, where to get the money and who provides it (and if applicable terms of repayment if financed) to:

1. Buy the land (remember that you will need to pay more than whatever comps there are now)
2. Compensate the businesses that will be compromised

Anyone have an educated guess on these to items and a breakdown of the components of each?

[JerseeJerry55]

OVer 50% of the land mass in the Iron Triangle has been purchased from the existing land owners.

Major businesses int he IT are in process of being relocated to larger, cleaner locations in College Point.

The City is in process of relocating the more than 200 auto body shops

Workers are receiving free job and basic english lessons as a result of this project.

No one is being thrown aside and plowed under by bull dozers. That is just not happening.

Like the slums of third world countries PICTURES of the Iron Triangle have been used in Communist School text books to teach young students that some U.S. citizens live and work in filthy, slum conditions in Free lands.

If this is indeed the case wouldn't it be considered a GOOD thing? We have to remember that this is not 1964 anymore. The area is not only run down, and in very poor condition, but needs a facelift of massive proportions. When this whole concept is finalized and up and running it will breathe new life into an otherwise run of the mill dead area. Remember the idea is not to draw from a 10 block radius, it is to draw from a 50 to 100 mile radius, or more. The NJ Devils (as an example) within the last 2 seasons built a brand new facility in Newark, which as far as I am concerned is in an area that is substantially worse in a lot of ways that Flushing NY is. This facility which I've been to twice this season has really pumped up the Newark area, and made it viable again. Lets remember one more thing there is a tennis event here every year in August, and September called the US Open. You don't think those folks that visit the event, wouldn't also want to venture over to the new facility near Citi Field as well?

[JerseeJerry55]

This argument has turned into a Tastes Great vs Less Filling silliness. Chances are that the answer lies somewhere in the middle 62%, it usually does.

Instead, let's take this step by step to examine the viability of the project all the way through to the end. Follow the money so to speak.

First step is to remove the establishments currently occupying the location. we'll worry about environmental remediation, construction, finance, market sustainability afterwards.

We need to determine the gross costs, where to get the money and who provides it (and if applicable terms of repayment if financed) to:

1. Buy the land (remember that you will need to pay more than whatever comps there are now)
2. Compensate the businesses that will be compromised

Anyone have an educated guess on these to items and a breakdown of the components of each?

Chances are it probably (the money) won't come from Freddie, and Jeff. Ever since there escapades with Bernie Madoff (who I like to refer to as "The Ponz") I don't think they'll be investing in anything other than players.

[BiggieSmalls]

We need to determine the gross costs, where to get the money and who provides it (and if applicable terms of repayment if financed) to:

1. Buy the land (remember that you will need to pay more than whatever comps there are now)
2. Compensate the businesses that will be compromised

The City has allocated 400 million in the budget to purchase the land they do not own and relocate the businesses..

When you include the 13 some acres of Streets and the 11 acres owned by the MTA we are really talking about 35 or so acres of property . 12 acres of that is occupoed by the "big three" (Fodera foods, Tully Construction and House of Spices). These three are at the far easter edge of the district and, under their agreement, will stay until the phase two and sell directly to the ultimate developer.

Phase one, the part Mets fans should really care about, is 126th Street to 127th Street and is the western most portion which includes most of the "chop shops" and the most heavily polluted areas.

The City has already negotiated $3 million to relocate the businesses so there is PLENTY of Funds to finance the purchase of the remaining properties (less than half the existing triangle) and recoup the dollars from the developer.

[Mongoose]

Let's examine your claims:

First off your continued contention that this is a "3 billion dollar boon doggle" of public dollars is a mischarecterization

The development will not be done ont he City's dime. It will be done by private developers.

Ill say again, the amount of dollars committed by the City is 400 million dollars. Most of which will be recouped in the sale of the land tot he developer.

Many developments have taken place on landfil and on property that otherwise did not have any infrastructure. This has been going on for decades. There is nothing different with the property at Willets Point. It is an historic ash and garbage dump that has been mistreated and neglected for 50 years.

The 60 acres of land land at Willets Point is immediately adjacent to the largest park in the City and a brand new sports complex. It is sandwiched between two of the fastest growing areas of this city. It lies at the crux of three major highway routes and near two major international airports.

If is an ideal parcel of land to develop into something more useful than what it is now. Is it the only parcel in the city that can be developed? No. Hudson Yards, Atlantic Yards and Sunny side Yards are three parcels that area also ripe for re development.

It is the role of government to recognize that long term investment is needed to create housing and jobs and lifestyle centers that can sustain and build this economy for the next 25 years.

Looking at the history, Willets Point is an awful location for this type of development scheme. 50 years ago Robert Moses planned on shifting much of NYC's population to Long Island and saw Flushing Meadows as the Central Park of the future. It didn't work out this way. The very mobility the automobile allowed meant that suburbanites might just as well head into Manhattan for fun and shopping as go to Flushing.

Why would anyone outside the immediate Flushing area want to make some big artificial development at Willets Point a 365 day a year destination when it's just 20 more minutes to Manhattan? The whole idea defies logic. And remember: the landfill, toxic cleanup, sewers that need to be built from scratch, etc. guarantee that any project at Willets Point will cost a fortune before ground is even broken for the first building; more than any comparable site would cost to develop.

By the way, you're wrong. Read the constitution...

It's not government's role to pump money into projects for private developers.

How will there be more teachers, olice and fire jobs when this is complete?

This is a ten year project to complete. At that time based on the population growth expected in the city three will certainly be a higher total budget and more city services on an absolute basis than there are today.

To focus on a one or maybe two year blip in the economy and say we should redirect all long term investments to further fund services that could cut waste fraud and abuse and make up any small differences in absolute dollar cuts is short term thinking and not providing for long term planning.

At least you have the honesty to admit you were being dishonest when you implied this project would somehow increase the policemen firemen and teachers employed by the City.

As far as focusing on a one or two year "blip" in the economy... We are where we are now, which is a place where the City can't afford to maintain essential services needed for day to day survival.

Workers that save lives, maintain order and teach the next generation are being laid off.

Budgeting hundreds of millions of dollars for this project now is crazy.

[BiggieSmalls]

Let's examine your claims:
Why would anyone outside the immediate Flushing area want to make some big artificial development at Willets Point a 365 day a year destination when it's just 20 more minutes to Manhattan? The whole idea defies logic. And remember: the landfill, toxic cleanup, sewers that need to be built from scratch, etc. guarantee that any project at Willets Point will cost a fortune before ground is even broken for the first building; more than any comparable site would cost to develop.

The thought the the whole City revolves around Manhattan has to be broken.. Areas in the outter boroughs have to be built up and receive investments in order to spread the wealth around so that EVERYONE isnt making Manhattan the "destination". That is just suicide. Manhattan will have every last dollar of tourist, convention and entertainment dollar while the outer boroughs will be waste lands with an economic sucking sound. Not healthy for the long term. And that is why the City gov't is pumping investment dollars into large scale developments like WP in the outer boroughs.

At least you have the honesty to admit you were being dishonest when you implied this project would somehow increase the policemen firemen and teachers employed by the City.

Go back and read my comment. Not what I said. I said that there will be more jobs police, fire and teaching jobs when the project is complete. As as I;'ve said before, the city spends an exorbitant amount on City services and workers as is.

As far as focusing on a one or two year "blip" in the economy... We are where we are now, which is a place where the City can't afford to maintain essential services needed for day to day survival.

To read this quote you'd think NYC was a vast lawless badlands reminiscent of Mad Max. The amount of dollars cut from the short term budgets will easiloy be made up , and more, should more dollars be in the city's coffers in the future. The best way to get more dollars is to expand the tax base with projects such as Willets Point. Unless you are willing to fork over more tax dollars on an individual level.

Could the Dept of Education, Fire and Police Dept better allocate their resources to reduce waste, fraud, abuse and middle management in order to retain more teachers, police and firemen? Of course. We spend more on these services than ANY other City, State and in some cases COUNTRIES.

There is no need to cut off long term investments because bloated bureaucracies cant better manage their vast resources and get more rubber to the road.

As was said before, this project is happening. There is really no sense in debating whether it is going to happen or the merits of it happening. EDC and the Mayor's office are committed to the continued investment in this and other long term projects. A good thing.

[MyNameIsMURRAY]

As was said before, this project is happening. There is really no sense in debating whether it is going to happen or the merits of it happening. EDC and the Mayor's office are committed to the continued investment in this and other long term projects. A good thing.

Umm, actually that is the topic of this thread so just relax a little bit smalls.

To say that the NYC has sufficient funds is just wrong: the schools are falling apart, over crowded, and good teachers (many of whom I am close personal friends with) aren't paid nearly enough to keep them long at their jobs.

Of course the money allocated to WP and and the rest of the NYC budget are different topics. It's not like that money is going to be spent on education anyway.

[MyNameIsMURRAY]

Willets Point business relocation program hits speed bump:

CB 7 rips EDC, threatens veto of Willets Point biz moves
Posted on March 25, 2009 by Stephen Stirling



The College Point Corporate Park Task Force is demanding the city set aside the abandoned Flushing Airport site for light recreation and parks uses.
Community Board 7 and College Point leaders threw down a gauntlet before the city Monday night.
At a meeting of the College Point Corporate Park Task Force, CB 7 Chairman Gene Kelty told city Economic Development Corp. officials flatly that the board will not approve any plans to move five Willets Point businesses to the College Point Corporate Park unless the abandoned Flushing Airport site is set aside for parks or soft recreation.
“With the EDC, it’s always talking with nothing coming out and I’m tired of that,” Kelty said in an interview Tuesday. “If we’re going to relocate these guys, then what are you going to do to help out the community?”
The development represents an about face for the task force and could set the stage for a very public fight over the issue.
The city is hoping to relocate five industrial businesses from Willets Point, where a massive redevelopment plan was approved in November, to the 550-acre College Point Corporate Park. The task force, which oversees development at the Corporate Park, heard presentations from each of the businesses — Feinstein Ironworks, Flushing Towing, Met Metals, T. Mina Supply Co. and Sambucci Bros. Auto Salvage — on their plans to relocate at the board’s Monday meeting.
Task Force Chairman and CB 7 Vice Chairman Chuck Apelian said the presentations went well, but the tone of the meeting quickly turned sour afterward.
“We’re taking on these businesses when the community was promised years ago that we wouldn’t have to take on these types of businesses,” Apelian said. “We just said we’re not going to do it unless you give us something. I think they were shocked to their shoes.”
Apelian tabled the discussion and set another meeting for April 2. Though it once served the majority of the air traffic in the city, Flushing Airport has remained vacant since it shut down in 1984. Historic Districts Council Executive Director Paul Graziano and marine biologist James Cervino are hoping to find a developer who could put between $50 million and $75 million toward a recreation facility that could include baseball fields, a driving range, an education center and nature trails all designed within an environmentally sustainable framework.
Reached for comment, the EDC issued a statement Tuesday downplaying the meeting’s fireworks.
“Last night, the board expressed support for the important businesses seeking to bring jobs and economic activity to College Point. We look forward to working with the community board to ensure outstanding questions are addressed and we can move forward with their approval,” the statement said.
But Kelty said if the EDC wants his board to approve its plans, it better get to work.
“They don’t have much of a window, but they better go talk to [Deputy Mayor Robert] Lieber and they better go talk to the mayor and tell them that they need to get something done,” he said. “I’ll screw them to the wall as much as possible.”
The snag in the process comes after members of the task force, which is comprised of College Point civic leader and Community board members, had viewed the proposal to move the businesses with a degree of optimism.
Both Apelian and Kelty said the dispute had less to do with the Willets Point businesses themselves than it did with a pattern of the city sidestepping community interests on the path to development.
“We got the marine transfer station. We said fine. We got the police training academy that’s going up on College Point Boulevard. We didn’t like that too much but we said O.K.,” Kelty said. “Last night was just another piece of icing on the cake. They want these five businesses to come into the area. They’re not the best businesses, its not something that’s really going to help the Corporate Park. So if we’re going to relocate these guys, then what’s the city going to do to help out the community?
“This community, they’ve taken their beatings, its time the city caught up.”

[Curly SB]

Taking a page from Boston and the area surrounding Fenway. The whole area is an economic generator. On game day merchants support the stadium on all sides. They close the streets and sell food, beer and souvenirs. Plus there are several retail stores, restaurants and bars in the area. Good places to meet up before the game and fall into after the game. One thing about (other than a million others) about Boston is that parking sucks in the area, Willets Point has a reasonable amount of parking already. The redevelopment of the Iron Triangle could create this type of environment. Redevelopment zones usually invite outside investment through tax credits.

[MyNameIsMURRAY]

Willets Point United Against Eminent Domain Abuse press release:


WILLETS POINT UNITED TAKING MATTERS
INTO THEIR OWN HANDS
SPONSORING CLEANUP ON FRIDAY, MARCH 27th AT NOON
(March 25, 2009) Willets Point United Against Eminent Domain Abuse is organizing a cleanup of garbage dumped along the streets of Willets Point, Queens, beginning this Friday, March 27th at 12 noon. The trucks will start in front of Crown Container, 126-46 34th Avenue.
“The City of New York has refused to provide us with sanitation services for decades, despite the fact that each business here pays tens of thousands of dollars in taxes annually,” said Jerry Antonacci, President of Willets Point United.
“It’s a shame that we have to take matters into our own hands because of neglect by the City,” said Jake Bono, Spokesperson for Willets Point United. “We have been calling in dumping complaints for years, but the Department of Sanitation refuses to respond and clean up the mess.”
The property owners, business owners and workers of Willets Point will collect and haul the garbage.
Besides lack of sanitation, Willets Point does not have adequate sewers and there are hundreds of potholes that the City’s Department of Transportation refuses to repair. These conditions have caused the streets to become an eyesore, have made it difficult for the businesses to operate and have endangered people’s lives and property.
On November 13, 2008, the City Council approved a plan that would remove existing businesses from Willets Point and redevelop the 64-acre industrial site into a convention center, hotels, shops and housing to be built and owned by a private developer. The City has announced that it will use eminent domain to achieve possession, if necessary, and then turn the property over to the developer, who is yet to be chosen. Willets Point United Against Eminent Domain Abuse represents more than two dozen property owners who are fighting the City’s plan to acquire their property.

Obviously not everyone wants this project to happen.

[BiggieSmalls]

of course the few resident businesses that are left dont want the development to happen.

But they are far from losers in this project. They will be compensated for their land and if they wish move to a new, clean location.

If Mongoose and you want to debate about teachers and firemen head counts go right ahead. I simply contend that these bureaucracies receive PLENTY of money on an absolute basis. That they have the efficiency and middle management of a communist bureau is the real problem.

Funds allocated to long term development projects and infrastructure should not be diverted from these economic engines of growth.

Since this board is named on "baseball fever" I think it is veering off into off topic when it becomes a forum for political rantings.

[SilentKiller]

the job creation numbers are 20,000 construction jobs over the 10 years of the development and 5,000 full time jobs including hotel union jobs and teaching jobs.

This compares to the 1200 jobs in Willets where over 80% (WPIRA number) are undocumented illegal residents who dont speak ANY english.

$12/an hour was pulled out of thin air with no supporting information

I threw out $12 a hour as a conservative figure. Most of these "great" jobs you're talking about you'd be lucky to get $10 a hour from them, and I say this because I've worked in those jobs. Have you?