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Thread: Saving Yankee Stadium

  1. #1

    Saving Yankee Stadium

    Hello all,

    This is something that should have been done months ago, and while I will be the first to admit that nothing has shocked me into realization like seeing the picture just posted in the demolition thread (not even seeing the new place across the street in November did it), there is no better time than the present to try and do at least something for the most historic baseball venue out there.

    Chastise me if you must (and I'm sure some of you will), but you can't fault a man for trying.

    So please, any of you that have posted things in the demo thread, post them again here, let's get something start, petitions, contacts and organizations (i.e. Save Our Parks). Any help from former and current players and people on the Yankee staff or even just citizens of New York and the Bronx would be as helpful as possible. Sportswriters, celebrities, etc.

    Let's contact as many as we can so that something can be saved. There have been some GREAT ideas put forth so far, but if they just stay ideas on this thread then the Stadium doesn't stand a chance.

    So who's with me? Can we get something going?


    Richard

  2. #2
    DiggerODell Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post
    Hello all,

    This is something that should have been done months ago, and while I will be the first to admit that nothing has shocked me into realization like seeing the picture just posted in the demolition thread (not even seeing the new place across the street in November did it), there is no better time than the present to try and do at least something for the most historic baseball venue out there.

    Chastise me if you must (and I'm sure some of you will), but you can't fault a man for trying.

    So please, any of you that have posted things in the demo thread, post them again here, let's get something start, petitions, contacts and organizations (i.e. Save Our Parks). Any help from former and current players and people on the Yankee staff or even just citizens of New York and the Bronx would be as helpful as possible. Sportswriters, celebrities, etc.

    Let's contact as many as we can so that something can be saved. There have been some GREAT ideas put forth so far, but if they just stay ideas on this thread then the Stadium doesn't stand a chance.

    So who's with me? Can we get something going?


    Richard
    Very Good Richard! This idea of remembering Yankee Stadium should never be on a thread of it's demise. What were we all thinking?

    My idea, probably 1 of 10,000 was inspired by "Pinstripes" on the demolition thread. He spoke of actually enclosing the remainder of the stadium portion of YS. The following is what I had to say on that.


    I love the "enclosed aspect" of what you describe? I've never considered that. I've always thought they could leave that small section of the BP and a field where the players once played . . .and actualy invent a technology (which might be already invented and I don't know about it) whereas like a museum, folks could come and rent/lease this little IPod looking thing that would show telecasts of famous plays made at the park . . . and walk around and ponder . . . of the things that occured where they stand, watchin a live rebroadcast in the palm of their hand. Lotta stuff to figure out . . .like why someone wouldn't just walk off with this technology when they are through . . . deposit . .something . .. cc # . . .I don't know, unimportant. But it would establish and reestabllish the history of the sacred grounds for generations to come.

    ps: some money could be made from this . . . even if it's small change . . .small change adds up. And it would still be . . .tah dah . . A park.

    I'm tellin' ya . . . something like this might work with the powers that be. I don't personally care to make one red cent off it, but would love to see the history of a beautiful (even though my one time experience, was't great, lol) park be preserved.

    Digger
    Last edited by DiggerODell; 04-02-2009 at 11:47 PM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post
    Hello all,

    This is something that should have been done months ago, and while I will be the first to admit that nothing has shocked me into realization like seeing the picture just posted in the demolition thread (not even seeing the new place across the street in November did it), there is no better time than the present to try and do at least something for the most historic baseball venue out there.

    Chastise me if you must (and I'm sure some of you will), but you can't fault a man for trying.

    So please, any of you that have posted things in the demo thread, post them again here, let's get something start, petitions, contacts and organizations (i.e. Save Our Parks). Any help from former and current players and people on the Yankee staff or even just citizens of New York and the Bronx would be as helpful as possible. Sportswriters, celebrities, etc.

    Let's contact as many as we can so that something can be saved. There have been some GREAT ideas put forth so far, but if they just stay ideas on this thread then the Stadium doesn't stand a chance.

    So who's with me? Can we get something going?


    Richard
    Hi Richard,
    There was a thread like this last summer, with alot of posts, pro and con.
    As I have said, Polititians have been written to, conservation socities as well. BUT former sen clinton, and sen schumer did not return my email, where I reminded him that destroying this entire structure would not only be a bad mistake, and something that will be regreted, but would be unamerican as well.
    I knew that when the day came that they started ripping into the place, THAT would be the day that shock/reality would set in.

    That day is here.

    The question is, WHO to bring the ideas to?(sparkeys in the demolition thread is a great idea) and what kind of time frame is available.
    I honestly think that the real demolition will start right after they rip out the seats, so that means one month, maybe a little more or a little less
    The thing to keep in mind here is that
    A. The yankees want the stadium gone ASAP
    B. the polititians dont care

    The only hope of saving any of this stadium is thru the media,since it is, and always will be, the media that drives the polititians. You cant go to the Yankee media alone( that would be like going thru radio havana to complain about Castro).
    If we all got together, called and flooded schumer (again) and hold him PERSONALY responible (he is the senior NY senetor, correct?) and flooded the daily news, the post, espn, and yes, the yankee offices, then MAYBE there might be a chance to save some of the historic sections of yankee stadium.
    the city has never addressed why the original walls of Yankee Stadium should not be landmarked. They have stated that the 'entire structure has been changed to the point where it lost landmark status'...ok, fine, what about the original sections of the stadium....where have they changed?
    Why is it that a 1970s apartment up the street HAS landmark status, while Yankee Stadium does not?
    You see, the city has never answered these questions, no one in the media will ask them
    In my opinion, these questions need to be asked, and answered. That and sparkeys diagram where most of the exterior wall was preserved needs to be presented as well.
    If not acted on quickly, and in force, then the entire place is doomed
    I think Mike Lupica needs to be contacted about these unanswered questions,and sparkeys plans need to be shown to him as well.(if my memory serves me, Lupica thinks the stadium should have been renovated)
    Other NY writers need to be called as well
    If I can help, let me know.

  4. #4
    Keith Olbermann (whether you like him or not... my opinion will be kept to myself) is a Yankee fan and has been going to the Stadium, in the same seats, since the renovation. His mother was even hit with a baseball bat that broke.

    Maybe someone can get a hold of him to make an effort.

    I'll do as much as I can tomorrow afternoon, it's late here and I'm heading to bed.


    Richard

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by shaneslatts View Post
    Hi Richard,
    There was a thread like this last summer, with alot of posts, pro and con.
    As I have said, Polititians have been written to, conservation socities as well. BUT former sen clinton, and sen schumer did not return my email, where I reminded him that destroying this entire structure would not only be a bad mistake, and something that will be regreted, but would be unamerican as well.
    I knew that when the day came that they started ripping into the place, THAT would be the day that shock/reality would set in.

    That day is here.

    The question is, WHO to bring the ideas to?(sparkeys in the demolition thread is a great idea) and what kind of time frame is available.
    I honestly think that the real demolition will start right after they rip out the seats, so that means one month, maybe a little more or a little less
    The thing to keep in mind here is that
    A. The yankees want the stadium gone ASAP
    B. the polititians dont care

    The only hope of saving any of this stadium is thru the media,since it is, and always will be, the media that drives the polititians. You cant go to the Yankee media alone( that would be like going thru radio havana to complain about Castro).
    If we all got together, called and flooded schumer (again) and hold him PERSONALY responible (he is the senior NY senetor, correct?) and flooded the daily news, the post, espn, and yes, the yankee offices, then MAYBE there might be a chance to save some of the historic sections of yankee stadium.
    the city has never addressed why the original walls of Yankee Stadium should not be landmarked. They have stated that the 'entire structure has been changed to the point where it lost landmark status'...ok, fine, what about the original sections of the stadium....where have they changed?
    Why is it that a 1970s apartment up the street HAS landmark status, while Yankee Stadium does not?
    You see, the city has never answered these questions, no one in the media will ask them
    In my opinion, these questions need to be asked, and answered. That and sparkeys diagram where most of the exterior wall was preserved needs to be presented as well.
    If not acted on quickly, and in force, then the entire place is doomed
    I think Mike Lupica needs to be contacted about these unanswered questions,and sparkeys plans need to be shown to him as well.(if my memory serves me, Lupica thinks the stadium should have been renovated)
    Other NY writers need to be called as well
    If I can help, let me know.


    I do remember that thread, but it disappeared to the cracks. I wish I had done more then, but I guess I was waiting for something to come to me. A huge mistake to be sure.

    The fact is, I want to do something now and I'm prepared to do as much as I can.

    PM or email me with phone numbers, email addresses, and the like to try and get something done and I will do all I can from my end.


    Richard

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post
    His mother was even hit with a baseball bat that broke.
    I'm pretty sure she was hit with an errant Chuck Knoblauch throw that went into the stands.
    New York Yankees
    New York Rangers
    New York Giants

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post
    I do remember that thread, but it disappeared to the cracks. I wish I had done more then, but I guess I was waiting for something to come to me. A huge mistake to be sure.

    The fact is, I want to do something now and I'm prepared to do as much as I can.

    PM or email me with phone numbers, email addresses, and the like to try and get something done and I will do all I can from my end.


    Richard
    I will be calling the daily news, the post, the local TV stations as well. I have contacted a writer friend of mine who has contacts in the yankees as well.
    We need to start somewhere and we need media help..Any media out there? HELP)
    The WAR starts today

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post
    I do remember that thread, but it disappeared to the cracks. I wish I had done more then, but I guess I was waiting for something to come to me. A huge mistake to be sure.

    The fact is, I want to do something now and I'm prepared to do as much as I can.

    PM or email me with phone numbers, email addresses, and the like to try and get something done and I will do all I can from my end.


    Richard

    Hey everyone. Here is one place to start http://schumer.senate.gov/
    Good old chuck schumer. The senior senetor from NY should be held accountable for this. I do not have the phone numbers for the daily news, post and the local stations YET, but I will be surfing the net and finding them.
    Again, today is the time to start
    The WAR has begun!

  9. #9
    Here is a letter I just fired off to Chuck Schumer

    Dear Sen Schumer,
    There are many basball fans over at baseballfever .com
    We, as a group are concerned with the destruction of a NY landmark, Yankee Stadium.
    If you get a chance, could you take alook at some of the ideas that we have come up with to preserve parts of the historic 1923 sections of old Yankee Stadium
    We, as a group, will be contacting the media today.
    We, as a group, are asking for your support in our efforts to preserve part of this historic old ballbark, The House that Ruth Built, Yankee Stadium
    thank You,
    Mark Slattery

  10. #10
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    In the demolition thread, there was conversation about saving the gate 2 wall and field.

    You know, its not unprecedented.

    http://www.leaguepark.org/current.html

    They did pretty much just that in Cleveland with League Park.



  11. #11
    Hello all,

    I don't have much time right now, but I just wanted to say that I love the pictures from League Park, it really shows that we're capable of something like this! Keep in mind though that the League Park wall is smaller, so we need a plan to preserve something much larger. Perhaps a small building, even a restaurant, museum, or even small office of some kind that would be dedicated to Bronx history and Yankee History.

    I think in any and all letters we fire off to anyone, we also need to make mention of the amount of the structure that remains from the original construction and how structurally sound it still is. The common opinion that everyone has of Yankee Stadium is that it's rotting away, we need to reverse that and educate everyone!

    Above all though, if this is to get any consideration, we need to stress that the Bronx will still get its parkland back as much as we can. This should almost be over-emphasized as anyone who is going to debate this with us will use that as their main rebuttal point.

    If they are concerned about trees and having them replaced in one of the worst asthmatic regions in the country, then perhaps someone could draw something up that would show just how many trees (approximately) would and could be put in to mark the original structure's outline.

    Maybe we could also work on illustrating several different proposals to show just what the different options are, but keep in mind that with EVERY proposal, we need to focus on the parkland around the Stadiums as well as Yankee Stadium itself.

    Too many people are upset about losing parkland and trees that we need a plan that puts all of that to rest.


    Richard

  12. #12
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    Dear Friends,

    I've always believed in advertising. I think great numbers of people will be reached through the various media. Even something as simple as a Letter To The Editor. These will be read by millions of people.

    How about putting a story on youtube. Everyone sees that great site. Tell what we want and have drawings included of ideas.

    The same for other well-known sites.

    Many great ideas were on "To Save Yankee Stadium," on Baseball Fever.

    To save a reasonable part of Yankee Stadium would not take up much park space. I still think that with all the history that Yankee Stadium has given us, it absolutely deserves to have a part left behind for us to visit.

    I wish Disney or another company would be involved. Audio-animatronic figures of Babe, Lou, Joe, Mickey, and many others could tell us about the teams they played on, the history of Yankee Stadium, etc. The possibilities are endless. It would also be a moneymaker. As we all know, sadly, the almighty buck is the bottom line. Besides these talking figures, a museum in the saved portion of Yankee Stadium would be on display.

    Assuming the Yankees draw about 4 million people this year, hundreds of thousands of people would easily visit such an experience as this. Local people would also have some more jobs in the area.

    The Baseball Hall of Fame, as I understand it, has a lot of memorabilia that cannot be displayed due to limited space (if I'm wrong, please correct me).
    What better place than this shrine to display some of these priceless treasures. At, say, $10. per person for admission, this would be a nice income. Plus income from souvenirs. Instead of having a restaurant in the museum, visitors could go to the local restaurants. This would certainly be most welcome, I would think, by such establishments in the off-season.

    Anything is possible, as long as people keep an open mind and are reasonable.
    This could all be done, and the people living in the area would still have parks
    and recreational areas.

    Once it's gone, it's gone. That would be very sad and very wrong for all that The House That Ruth gave us.

    Sincerely,
    Mike Wagner

  13. #13
    It's called constructive reuse, NYC, let's start using it. Look at Boston, for example:

    Braves field, home of the Braves,


    After the Braves left for Milwaukee, some of the stadium was demolished but the rest was reused:



  14. #14

    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by RichardLillard1 View Post

    I think in any and all letters we fire off to anyone, we also need to make mention of the amount of the structure that remains from the original construction and how structurally sound it still is. The common opinion that everyone has of Yankee Stadium is that it's rotting away, we need to reverse that and educate everyone!



    Richard
    I'd venture to guess the old girl is structurally stronger even than what just opened to the public next door! And she'll be a b$%@tch to dismantle.

    All the more reason some of OYS can and should be incorporated into the park restoration plan for the space.

    Outlining the grandstand with hundreds of trees simply does not convey the enormity and significance of what was demolished there, unless you fly over it in a plane or have access to view it from the roof of the BxCo Courthouse. From terra firma, it will look like little more than a small Central Park with three baseball diamonds all facing each other surrounded by trees. No context as to what stood there the previous 85 years.

    What kind of remembrance is that???
    NYC's politicians and media need look no further than right here, Baseball Fever, to get a taste of the sentiment surrounding the preservation of Old YS. Once they've been here, they'll realize rocket science is not required to do what needs to be done.
    Last edited by NYFan1stYankFan2nd; 04-03-2009 at 07:39 PM.
    RYS to NYS: "Obi-Lonn never told you what happened to your father."

    NYS: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him - in the 1970s!!"

    RYS: "No, I am your father..."

    NYS: "No, it's not true, that's impossible!!!!"

    RYS: "Look beyond my respirator pods and my upper crown; you know it to be true!

  15. #15
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    I would love to see part of the old stadium remain... I like the idea that was proposed on another thread of having the gate be the gateway of the park, or something like that...

  16. #16
    Hello again everyone,

    Mike it's great to have you on board!

    I just sent an email off to Joel Sherman, who wrote the article below for the New York Post. I hope we can get something from him.

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/04032009...731.htm?page=2

    It's a bit late here in Arizona, so I'm off to bed again. I'll have much more time to work on things tomorrow and Sunday.


    Richard

  17. #17

    To Everyone...

    Read Mike Wagner's latest post (#12)...it also appears on the "Demolition" thread.

    The debate has to come a pretty quick end, and concrete plans (and I use the word "concrete" in a variety of ways) must be drawn up, finalized, and presented. Those holes in the leftfield bleachers are only a few feet away from Gate 2.

    Mike couldn't have said it any better!

  18. #18
    I couldn't agree with you more, we need to take action and have a solid plan by the end of the weekend.

    A very important thing to cover, is there ANYONE out there who either lives in the Bronx, or New York and can help us/is interested in doing the leg work for this whole thing? If I need to I can book a flight out to New York and I'm aware it might come to that, but I don't want to do it unless we stand a choice.

    Also, does anyone have the ability to compile all of the plans we have seen on this board so far and re-post them here? This includes all of the plans we saw last year AND the information about other places being given landmark status.

    There was one that I recall about modification to the surrounding parkland, I want to see that one again, but every search brings up too many results for the amount of time I have right now. I have a few ideas that could go along with that one if I remember enough about it correctly.

    In terms of what could be and should be preserved;

    - Gate 2, I think this one is a no brainer, not to mention that some sort of a building could be erected behind it to be a Yankee/Baseball museum with shops and the like.

    - Portions of the lower grandstand, again, no-brainer - this could not only be used as a field for many surrounding schools and semi-professional teams, but serves as THE most (paired with the lower grandstand) important shrine to Yankee Stadium.

    - The section of the bleachers that so many bring up, this gives us a chance to preserve a little bit of everything.

    - The last remaining section of the original outfield wall, I think this could be a nice thing to preserve as it would show just what used to be there and it's something that's been there from day one of the present bleacher sections.

    - The Frieze, or at least a section of it would be very important. With a new support structure, it could be put on the ground level and would even give people a chance to see its immense size up close and personal. Just think of the souvenir pictures that could be taken of people posing next to it. Truly something New York visitors (especially ones visiting the Yankees) would love.

    - Possible section of all three tiers of the grandstand, I know this is asking a lot, but it would be nice to preserve something to show what used be, perhaps with some sort of modified construction to show what it was like originally and after the renovation, I was thinking this should be behind home plate, like the renderings I've seen. This also opens up the option of preserving the original press area behind home plate, Bob Shephard's booth and allowing for more museum space.

    In terms of admission; I think that a tour could be offered of the House that Ruth Built alone, or a joint tour (anyone know how to get a hold of Tony Morante?) of the former and newer.

    This would mean that tours could be offered at a higher price than what the Yankees charge for tours of the new stadium and Tony Morante could still give his nostalgic tours of the original Stadium. This would generate revenue for BOTH the city and the Yankees. Something I'm sure they would both like.

    When the new stadium was started a few years ago, a lot of people started and outcry about mature trees and the lack of parkland. I think we can counter this by showing just how little of it preservation would take up and how much we could use of the property to make up for both the trees and parkland.

    Tennis courts could be constructed around the outfield area, or something along those lines. Trees could go around, in rows (probably three to four trees wide, if that makes sense) to outline the original grandstand structure, I know this has been mentioned that it wouldn't look like much unless viewed from above, but there is a very high building with photograph access right next door and what better way would there be to show the massive House that Ruth Built and it's outline than to be able to see it from across the street, with parts of it still in tact and a large Yankee/Baseball Museum there as well?

    I think that's about it for right now, I'll be in and out all day, but feel free to PM me, or email (RichardLillard1(at)gmail(dot)com).


    Richard

  19. #19
    Richard:

    You offer magnificent plans...but at this late date, the Yankees, the Parks Dept., and the City, are going to be adamently agasinst anything more than a single, simple proposal. Personally, I'd love to see all your plans come to fruition, but I feel that the Gate 2 proposal and the way Pinstripes visually rendered it, is the best way to go. If it goes through, additions and modifications are a distinct possibility at a later date.

    As I've posted before...as long as what is saved is from 1923, 1928, or 1937,
    I'm all for it, but like you, I'm not in New York and that makes direct contact difficult (and as of this morning, something has completely shut down my e-mail). I have made phonecalls and still have more to make. I will be out of town April 5,6...headin' south, away from the Stadium, but will make some calls none-the-less.

    I may be completely wrong in my opinion concerning the "total package"...
    the gate, the stands, the wall, etc...but wehatever is ultimately decided, I'm in it for the duration.

    Keep me, and the rest of the FAITHFUL informed...and I will do the same.

    Best Wishes, Good Luck, and may "God Bless Us, Everyone."

    Chris

  20. #20
    Richard:

    You offer magnificent plans...but at this late date, the Yankees, the Parks Dept., and the City, are going to be adamently agasinst anything more than a single, simple proposal. Personally, I'd love to see all your plans come to fruition, but I feel that the Gate 2 proposal and the way Pinstripes visually rendered it, is the best way to go. If it goes through, additions and modifications are a distinct possibility at a later date.

    As I've posted before...as long as what is saved is from 1923, 1928, or 1937,
    I'm all for it, but like you, I'm not in New York and that makes direct contact difficult (and as of this morning, something has completely shut down my e-mail). I have made phonecalls and still have more to make. I will be out of town April 5,6...headin' south, away from the Stadium, but will make some calls none-the-less.

    I may be completely wrong in my opinion concerning the "total package"...
    the gate, the stands, the wall, etc...but whatever is ultimately decided, I'm in it for the duration.

    Keep me, and the rest of the FAITHFUL informed...and I will do the same.

    Best Wishes, Good Luck, and may "God Bless Us, Everyone."

    Chris

  21. #21
    Shaneslatts:

    I haven't responded to your posts as I had intended...your enthusiasm and ideas are wonderful, but the time factor ways heavily upon me...and all of us.

    I'm behind whatever we can save, as are many of those on BBF. I've made some contacts and intend to make more.

    Here's hopin'...and good luck.

    Chris

  22. #22
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    I have to say it truly breaks my heart to see the old girl standing there and not being the Queen of the ball.
    Save some of the stadium, I hope they do, but I sure hope they soon end this embarrassment and let her rest in peace.

  23. #23
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    Buffalo did something similar to War Memorial Stadium by saving one of it's gates and then turn the rest of the stadiums into a park

    The same should be done with Old Yankee Stadium's Gate Two

    Last edited by Milwaukee County Stadium; 04-04-2009 at 06:05 PM.

  24. #24
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    Dear Milwaukee County Stadium,

    What a beautiful job!!!! WOW!!!!! And, just having Gate 2 with nothing else would really be maintenance free. Of course, we'd all like more to be saved, but at the very least Gate 2.

    I wonder if the local shop owners would be interested in saving it if they could get some sort of financial benefit through souvenirs &/or food sales.

    All the ideas we have really are reasonable, intelligent, and doable. Too bad we're only the common people and not the rich or powerful. Too often we common folk have common sense ideas. The rich and powerful should realize this. They probably do, but don't care. If they would embrace the decent ideas we come up with, they'd make more money. And, we'd get our little piece of happiness. Respect should be a two-way street.

    I really think going on youtube and other huge websites to get the word out is the only possible way to accomplish anything. If not, maybe we should send part of Yankee Stadium to Detroit, where they're saving part of Tiger Stadium. At least they truly respect baseball history.

    -Mike Wagner

  25. #25
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    Dear Richard,

    You have great ideas. I especially like having some friezes to where people could get close up and take photos. It's just like taking photos of any landmark, such as the White House, Empire State Building, etc. Yankee Stadium is a shrine except to those in charge who have dollar signs in their eyes. The stupidity of it all is that they'd be making more money by keeping part of the structure up for visitors to see. A museum would add to their pockets, as we all know how rich the Yankee history is.

    They have this distorted notion that keeping any part of Yankee Stadium will detract from the new Yankee Stadium and the heritage it will have starting with 2009. Nothing could be further from the truth. What will happen is that by destroying all of the original Yankee Stadium will only make its ghost stronger. Look at Babe Ruth. He died in 1948, yet his ghost gets more legendary as time goes on. The same for Lou Gehrig.

    If the leaders who hate Yankee Stadium so much would keep part of it, they will be heralded by current and future generations for saving part of it. That would be a legacy they would be thanked for and be proud of. Instead, they will be damned for their hatred and destruction of this shrine. History has proven this time and again. Their names may be alongside of the new Yankee Stadium, which is fine. But, their names will have a blot throughout all of history for completely destroying such a hallowed structure. That's what history will dictate and what their descendents will inherit - like it or not.

    On the other hand, if they were to keep part of Yankee Stadium, they will win on both counts - a new Yankee Stadium and foresight to keep part of the structure that has been so interwoven into American and world history.
    Besides the obvious baseball history, Popes have visited Yankee Stadium, and the memorial for victims of 9/11 was held here. My take is that hatred of Yankee Stadium by the powers that be is of greater importance than the benevolence of saving a part of it for current and future generations. We're not asking for much. And, the community would still benefit - and they should, as it wouldn't take up much space, and there would still be park and recreational areas set aside for the local residents.

    -Mike Wagner

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