Swing Analysis Requested

[rjkid]

I would greatly appreciate it if folks could offer some thoughts on the attached swing. He has generally had a lot of success hitting in the past and is very motivated to work hard on his own and continue to improve. He's 13 and hits the ball hard to all parts of the field (frequently well over the outfielders last year). Looking for things to focus on and/or major flaws to begin correcting. Suggestions on how to go about making changes woudl be appreciated as well. Thanks.

[DukeK]

I don't see any obvious faults. His back foot comes pretty far off the ground, but that's not necessarily bad.

Perhaps those with a more discerning eye than me can see something.

[rjkid]

Thanks for the comments. He was a little worried about squishing the bug at the end of last year's season so he did a lot of "walk up drills" and a drill where he thrust his rear knee forward while hitting off the tee during the Winter. He is not even aware of his back foot coming up so high now, and I thought it may not happen as much with live pitching, but I definitely noticed it after viewing video of him. I was thinking that maybe he his not blocking with his front leg properly or over rotating? We are a bit weather impaired so he has not really faced much live pitching this year yet.

[DukeK]

Let's put him up with Jeter and Rollins to compare:



One thing I do see is that his head/eye level is raising up through his swing where Jeter and Rollins head/eyes stay steady and at the same level. It appears this might be affecting keeping his eyes on the ball, i.e. not looking down the barrel of the bat at contact.

Perhaps the other swing gurus here can point out exactly why that is happening and give you some drills to correct it.

[CoachW]

I wouldn't mess with that swing at all. Good job!!!

CoachW

[Deemax]

I would greatly appreciate it if folks could offer some thoughts on the attached swing. He has generally had a lot of success hitting in the past and is very motivated to work hard on his own and continue to improve. He's 13 and hits the ball hard to all parts of the field (frequently well over the outfielders last year). Looking for things to focus on and/or major flaws to begin correcting. Suggestions on how to go about making changes woudl be appreciated as well. Thanks.

Your son has good actions with his hands, and his lower body. Dont let anyone deaden these actions.

Work hard on getting stronger over the next 5 years, and you could have quite a hitter on your hands.

IMO I wouldnt mess with his swing, just keep throwing him quality BP.

There are many positive things with this swing.

-good luck

[Coach G]

13 years old. Thats pretty impressive for a 13 year old swing. A lot of good things happening.

[MSandman]

He's doing exactly what I'm failing to help MY son do - GREAT LATE upper body load (rear elbow back/up).

[SLBaseballDad]

Nice Swing for sure!!

My son's swing was similar only in that his rear foot came off the ground alot and he had some head movement as well. Let me be clear, your sons swing looks much better that mine when this vid was taken. I though you might be interested in a post by mudvnine that realy help us. Its relply #12.


http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81594

[rjkid]

I appreciate the comments from everyone. We have learned a lot from this forum over the past year.

MSandman,
Regarding the "GREAT LATE upper body load (rear elbow back/up)":
We will see if it continues as he gets in game situations.
We have referred to the "Loading Sequence" sheets you put together and shared several times while working on this with the tee. Actually, I was getting concerned with his tee swing this Winter because his rear elbow was almost pointing up to the sky at times.

SLBaseballDad,
The Mudvnine post you referenced is very helpful. I recall that thread because I remember thinking that at some point my son is going to need to figure out how to calm his head movement. So far it has not seemed to hurt him much, but I suspect it will when he sees more advanced pitching.

[rjkid]

I am hopefully attaching a slower speed version of my son's swing which may reveal other issues to those with a discerning eye. I am a bit out of my league when it comes to the finer points of the swing.
My thoughts on areas to focus future attention are...
-landing a bit more closed with his front foot and having a little more bend in the front leg
-calming his head movement (keeping it more level from start to finish)
-keeping his rear knee down a little more on his initial push

I think his coach this year may have commented to him that his swing was "too long" and that he was moving the bat around too much prior to launching. I do not personally think his swing is long or loopy, but I have noticed that his coaches generally demonstrate an "ideal" swing being more arm extension and downward to contact.

Thanks again.

[jbooth]

My thoughts on areas to focus future attention are...
-landing a bit more closed with his front foot and having a little more bend in the front leg

Baloney, don't do a thing with his front foot. And, the front leg is supposed to land bent, but it MUST straighten before contact to get a full hip turn.

-calming his head movement (keeping it more level from start to finish)

A steady head is always a fundamental need.

-keeping his rear knee down a little more on his initial push

Most of what makes the head move incorrectly, is incorrect leg geometry. The back leg must not straighten, and the front one should not bend.

I think his coach this year may have commented to him that his swing was "too long" and that he was moving the bat around too much prior to launching. I do not personally think his swing is long or loopy, but I have noticed that his coaches generally demonstrate an "ideal" swing being more arm extension and downward to contact.

He can wave the bat around all he wants, as long as he isn't late on fastballs. The timing of the hips and hands going forward is the important thing. And getting the barrel off of a dead point is good thing.

[Coach G]

I'm sure they mean downward to start. Downward to contact equates to a bunch of holes in the ground in front of the plate. Thats a different topic different thread.

[wogdoggy]

[deleted ...........

[jbooth]

]Baloney, don't do a thing with his front foot. And, the front leg is supposed to land bent, but it MUST straighten before contact to get a full hip turn.

jim it looks like his front foot sits still doesnt even roll a wee bit from rotation,,do you see a lack of rotation and more "hip" slide or a vertical push ? dont get me wrong the kid looks great ,,just curious about your opinion.is he getting the best rotation if his front foot doesnt roll at least a wee bit?

I think he is turning "around the front hip/leg" rather than turning from the back hip. So, yes his foot won't roll as much. He's getting a little bit too far over that foot before he gets a good rotation going. I wouldn't call it hip slide. He turns as soon as the foot weights, he doesn't slide. But, he should be turning from the backside as the foot goes down instead of waiting to get the foot down and then turn.

[rjkid]

"I think he is turning "around the front hip/leg" rather than turning from the back hip. So, yes his foot won't roll as much. He's getting a little bit too far over that foot before he gets a good rotation going. I wouldn't call it hip slide. He turns as soon as the foot weights, he doesn't slide. But, he should be turning from the backside as the foot goes down instead of waiting to get the foot down and then turn."

I think I see what you are describing. Would the comparison between the swing gate an revolving door action apply here? Is there any specific drill or method you recommend to try and address this? Thanks.

[Berkman#17]

Keep the front hip closed just a tiiiny bit longer, and keep him from rising out of his crouch as he swings.

Small minute refinements and nothing more. Let this swing be, get him in the weight room and enjoy the show.

Love how deep he let that ball get on him. Quick hands and a quick back hip. You can't teach that.

[gameth]

As far as the front foot goes with roll over, I would say it looks like he is opening the front foot nearly 90 degrees (toes to the pitcher). I am willing to bet that if he only opened the foot 45 degrees we would see a more pronounced "roll over."

[hitforaverage]

First off, his swing looks great for a 13 YO, very good fundamentally.

The following thread is a good one to check out, the "Absolutes of Hitting".

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=88746

The only suggestions I would have for him are to do with his weight transfer and his initial bat angle.

His weight transfer should be 'into' his front foot, not over it. When he shifts his weight over his front foot, his eye level changes (up) and it limits how much/fast/explosively he can trigger his lower body, hence why he gets jammed a little in the video. Notice how Rollins and Jeter don't end up 'over' their front foot, rather 'into' it, and they get excellent hip rotation and extension through the ball.

OR another way of saying it...

I think he is turning "around the front hip/leg" rather than turning from the back hip.

Secondly his swing may seem a bit loopy to his coaches because he wraps his bat a bit. Pointing the bat head towards the pitcher is not a good thing, because it has to travel backwards before it comes forwards. It's a bit hard to explain without pictures.

Just some food for thought.

[rjkid]

Again, thanks everyone for the comments and thoughts.

Regarding his weight transfer being over his front foot (causing head to shift up) and not into it (desirable):
-Would it be better if he landed his front foot more on his toes initially and then started rotating into foot plant? He currently lands his foot somewhat flat and pointed at the pitcher.

Regarding pointing the bat toward the pitcher (wraps his bat):
-I confess to thinking that that was what many players actually do, and in some ways it seemed like since he started doing it, he had a bit more power and his timing seemed a little better (he used to be out in front of a lot of pitches).

Lots to learn.

[HYP]

Again, thanks everyone for the comments and thoughts.

Regarding his weight transfer being over his front foot (causing head to shift up) and not into it (desirable):
-Would it be better if he landed his front foot more on his toes initially and then started rotating into foot plant? He currently lands his foot somewhat flat and pointed at the pitcher.

Regarding pointing the bat toward the pitcher (wraps his bat):
-I confess to thinking that that was what many players actually do, and in some ways it seemed like since he started doing it, he had a bit more power and his timing seemed a little better (he used to be out in front of a lot of pitches).

Lots to learn.

If you decide to change anything I your sons swing, which I wouldn't change much, DO NOT, change the bat tipping.

This is not bat wrapping. Bat wrapping is something else.

[DukeK]

If you decide to change anything I your sons swing, which I wouldn't change much, DO NOT, change the bat tipping.

This is not bat wrapping. Bat wrapping is something else.

Glad you posted that. He does actually have it wrapped to start, but it's where it needs to be when he launches.

[rjkid]

"DO NOT, change the bat tipping"
"This is not bat wrapping. Bat wrapping is something else. "

OK. I thought of it as more of a tipping than wrapping. Wrapping would be if he dropped the barrel a bit behind his head prior to launch?

I've generally stayed somewhat hands off with my son in terms of his swing although we do try to look at a lot of major league swings together. My comment to him on the bat tipping has simply been that if he finds he cannot catch up to fastballs, he may want to look at toning it down a bit at some point.

[HYP]

"DO NOT, change the bat tipping"
"This is not bat wrapping. Bat wrapping is something else. "

OK. I thought of it as more of a tipping than wrapping. Wrapping would be if he dropped the barrel a bit behind his head prior to launch?

I've generally stayed somewhat hands off with my son in terms of his swing although we do try to look at a lot of major league swings together. My comment to him on the bat tipping has simply been that if he finds he cannot catch up to fastballs, he may want to look at toning it down a bit at some point.

Good approach. Toning down is easier then trying to learn it from a toned down swing.

I actually think of bat wrapping as getting the barrel trapped behind the head. You will see kids who drop the barrel behind their head and then rotate their shoulders hard to get it around, to slow. If the same kid uses his hands to get the barrel started before the shoulders move then he wouldn't be wrapping.

[hitforaverage]

Glad you posted that. He does actually have it wrapped to start, but it's where it needs to be when he launches.

Fair comments on the bat tipping. I just find when teaching the younger kids it's better to keep it simple and compact.

By tipping his bat, the head will travel in a larger arc, and will therefore create more speed. So when he gets it on the barrel, he'll have more pop, but will be more susceptible to getting jammed. As he gets older and stronger, he'll be able to handle the bat better and the tipping can be a great way to improve his timing.

Regarding his weight transfer being over his front foot (causing head to shift up) and not into it (desirable):
-Would it be better if he landed his front foot more on his toes initially and then started rotating into foot plant? He currently lands his foot somewhat flat and pointed at the pitcher.

Landing flat is great, it gives him a very stable base to rotate around. Emphasise landing 'softly' on the inside of his front foot, and staying closed.