This is our tenth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will run through 11:59:59 PM EST April 24, 2009.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1943 voters, are in this thread
Researcher/advocate/mod
This is our tenth election in this project. The entire rules follow.
This election will run through 11:59:59 PM EST April 24, 2009.
The prior election, and the ballots of the 1943 voters, are in this thread
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Rules
1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance, or only the first vote will be counted. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.
2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.
3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.
4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.
5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.
6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.
7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.
8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.
9) Each election will run for two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.
10) No one is ineligible, nor are players from any league ineligible. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project. Candidates will not lose eligiblity after becoming eligible except by being elected as either a contributor or player.
11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.
12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.
13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.
14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.
15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.
16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.
17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.
18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, take those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.
19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.
20) I reserve the right to hold both 19th century and Negro League special elections in 2000 if we don't have a sufficient number in those categories by then. These elections probably will be limited to voters I feel are appropriately versed on the group of players to be considered. I do wish to only use this as a last resort, however, and only to ensure that those groups received what I regard as at least adequate bare minimum representation. I do not plan on sharing with you what I consider to meet those bare minimum standards, but I think that the numbers I am thinking of are well below the number of candidates that well informed observers believe are well qualified candidates from each group.
21) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.
22) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
Last edited by jalbright; 04-18-2009 at 06:32 AM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The players who become eligible in 1945 are:
There is only one contributor candidate becoming eligible in 1945, Grantland RiceCode:Bluege , Ossie Bottomley , Jim Critz , Hughie Earnshaw , George Elliott , Jumbo Goslin , Goose Grantham , George Grove , Lefty Hartnett , Gabby Johnson , Judy Kamm , Willie Lyons , Ted McManus , Marty Pruett , Hub Suttles , Mule Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jimmie
Last edited by jalbright; 04-12-2009 at 01:12 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The 1944 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1944 election:
The 1944 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the 1944 election:Code:player…………….. votes pts Barnes , Ross 11 101 Ward , John M. 12 96 Hines , Paul 11 86 Sisler , George 14 80 Magee , Sherry 8 72 Clarke , Fred 12 68 Collins , Jimmy 11 67 Wheat , Zack 9 53 Jackson , Joe 5 50 Vance , Dazzy 10 45 Traynor , Pie 5 34 Radbourn , C 8 31 Bennett , C 4 30 Keeler , Willie 4 27 Stovey , H 5 25 Thompson , S 4 25 Groh , Heinie 3 24 Carey , Max 3 23 Sutton , Ezra 4 22 Terry , Bill 5 21 Flick , Elmer 3 19 McPhee , Bid 3 19 Maranville , R 3 18 Waddell , Rube 4 17 Start , Joe 2 15 Caruthers , B 2 14 Galvin , Pud 3 14 Grant , Frank 3 14 Johnson , HR 2 13 Hoyt, Waite 1 12 Joss , Addie 1 11 Bresnahan , R 3 10 Coveleski , S 2 10 Roush , Edd 2 10 Chance , Frank 1 8 Browning , P 2 5 Gore , George 1 5 Pennock, Herb 1 5 Tinker, Joe 1 5 Evers , Johnny 1 4 Jennings , H 1 3 Grimes , B 1 2 Hill , Pete.....2 2 Kling, Johnny 1 2 Pearce , Dickey 1 2 Duffy , Hugh 1 1 Glasscock , J 1 1 Kelley , Joe 1 1
I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.Code:contributor… votes pts Creighton , Jim 10 37 Cartwright , A 9 36 Klem, Bill.. 15 32 Richter , F 10 26 Barrow , Ed 5 13 Landis , K 6 13 Commiskey , C 2 9 Clarke , Fred 2 8 Reach , A. J. 3 7 Doubleday , A 2 6 Dunn , Jack 2 6 Taylor , C. I. 2 6 Spink, Albert 2 5 Hanlon , Ned 1 3 Caylor , O. P. 1 2 Conlan , C 1 2 Pearce, Dickey 1 2 Ward , John M. 1 2
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
Members of the Best of Baseball Hall
Players
ContributorsCode:Pete Alexander Cap Anson Frank Baker Dan Brouthers Mordecai Brown Jesse Burkett Oscar Charleston John Clarkson Ty Cobb Eddie Collins Roger Connor Sam Crawford Bill Dahlen George Davis Ed Delahanty Buck Ewing Frankie Frisch Lou Gehrig Billy Hamilton Harry Heilmann Rogers Hornsby Walter Johnson Tim Keefe King Kelly Nap LaJoie Pop Lloyd Christy Mathewson Kid Nichols Jim O'Rourke Eddie Plank Bullet Joe Rogan Amos Rusie Babe Ruth Louis Santop Tris Speaker Cristobal Torriente Honus Wagner Ed Walsh Deacon White Smoky Joe Williams George Wright Cy Young
Code:Doc Adams Henry Chadwick Rube Foster William Hulbert Ban Johnson Connie Mack John McGraw Al Spalding Harry Wright
Last edited by jalbright; 04-12-2009 at 07:52 AM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
The complete list of eligible players:
The complete list of eligible contributors:Code:Adams , Babe Adams , Sparky Altrock , Nick Archer , Jimmy Arlett , Buzz Austin , Jimmy Bancroft , Dave Barnes , Ross Barry , Jack Battin , Joe Beaumont , Ginger Beckley , Jake Bender , Chief Bennett , Charlie Benton , Larry Bergen , Marty Bigbee , Carson Bishop , Max Blades , Ray Blue , Lu Bluege , Ossie Bodie , Ping Boley , Joe Bond , Tommy Bottomley , Jim Bradley , Bill Breitenstein , Ted Bresnahan , Roger Browning , Pete Burns , George J. Bush , Joe Bush , Donie Cadore , Leon Camnitz , Howie Carey , Max Carrigan , Bill Caruthers , Bob Chance , Frank Chapman , Ray Chase , Hal Chesbro , Jack Childs , Cupid Cicotte , Eddie Clarke , Fred Coakley , Andy Collins , Jimmy Collins , Shano Combs , Earle Conroy , Wid Coombs , Jack Cooper , Andy Cooper , Wilbur Coveleski , Stan Crandall , Doc Cravath , Gavvy Creighton , Jim Criger , Lou Critz , Hughie Cross , Lave Crowder , Al Cruise , Walt Cummings , Candy Cuyler , Kiki Daubert , Jake Davis , Harry Dinneen , Bill Doak , Bill Donlin , Mike Donovan , Bill Dooin , Red Doyle , Jack Doyle , Larry Duffy , Hugh Dugan , Joe Dunlap , Fred Dykes , Jimmy Earnshaw , George Ehmke , Howard Elberfeld , Kid Elliott , Jumbo Ens , Jewel Evers , Johnny Faber , Red Falkenberg , Cy Fletcher , Art Flick , Elmer Fonseca , Lew Foster , Eddie Fraser , Chick Galvin , Pud Glasscock , Jack Gleason , Kid Gonzalez , Mike Gore , George Goslin , Goose Gowdy , Hank Grant , Eddie Grant , Frank Grantham , George Griffith , Clark Grimes , Burleigh Grimm , Charlie Groh , Heinie Grove , Lefty Hahn , Noodles Haines , Jesse Hargrave , Bubbles Harris , Bucky Hartnett , Gabby Herzog , Buck Hill , Pete Hinchman , Bill Hines , Paul Hooper , Harry Hoyt , Waite Huggins , Miller Irwin , Charlie Jackman , Will Jackson , Joe Jennings , Hughie Johnson , Home Run Johnson , Judy Jones , Charley Jones , Fielder Jones , Sam P. Jordan , Tim Joss , Addie Judge , Joe Kamm , Willie Keeler , Willie Kelley , Joe Kerr , Dickie Killefer , Bill Kilroy , Matt Kling , Johnny Knabe , Otto Kremer , Ray Lange , Bill Larkin , Henry Latham , Arlie Leach , Freddy Leach , Tommy Leever , Sam Lewis , Duffy Lobert , Hans Long , Herman Lowe , Bobby Lundy , Dick Luque , Dolf Lyons , Denny Lyons , Ted Magee , Sherry Maranville , Rabbit Marberry , Firpo Marquard , Rube Mathews , Bobby Mays , Carl McAleer , Jimmy McCarthy , Tommy McCormick , Jim McGinnity , Joe McGowan , Bill McInnis , Stuffy McLean , Larry McManus , Marty McPhee , Bid McVey , Cal Meadows , Lee Mendez , Jose Meusel , Bob Milan , Clyde Miller , Bing Miller , Dots Miller , Hack Moore , Dobie Moran , Pat Mostil , Johnny Mullane , Tony Murphy , Danny Murray , Red Nehf , Art O'Doul , Lefty Oeschger , Joe O'Farrell , Bob O'Leary , Charlie Oms , Alejandro O'Neill , Steve O'Neill , Tip Orr , Dave Pabor , Charlie Paskert , Dode Pearce , Dickey Peckinpaugh , Roger Peitz , Heinie Pennock , Herb Perdue , Hub Perkins , Cy Phillippe , Deacon Pike , Lip Pipp , Wally Poles , Spotswood Pruett , Hub Quinn , Jack Radbourn , Charlie Raymond , Bugs Redding , Dick Remsen , Jack Rice , Sam Richardson , Hardy Ring , Jimmy Ritchey , Claude Rixey , Eppa Robertson , Dave Rommel , Eddie Root , Charlie Roush , Edd Rucker , Nap Rudolph , Dick Ruel , Muddy Ryan , Jimmy Schacht , Al Schaefer , Germany Schalk , Ray Schang , Wally Schreckengost , Ossie Schulte , Frank Scott , Everett Scott , Jack Severeid , Hank Sewell , Joe Seymour , Cy Sheckard , Jimmy Sherdel , Bill Shocker , Urban Sisler , George Smith , Earl Smith , Sherry Sparks , Tully Stahl , Jake Start , Joe Steinfeldt , Harry Stephenson , Riggs Stovey , Harry Street , Gabby Suttles , Mule Sutton , Ezra Sweeney , Bill Tannehill , Jesse Taylor , Ben Tenney , Fred Terry , Bill Thomas , Ira Thompson , Sam Tiernan , Mike Tinker , Joe Toney , Fred Traynor , Pie Turner , Terry Uhle , George Van Haltren , George Vance , Dazzy Veach , Bobby Waddell , Rube Walberg , Rube Wallace , Bobby Wambsganss , Bill Ward , John M. Warfield , Frank Welch , Mickey Wheat , Zack White , Sol White , Will Whitehill , Earl Williams , Cy Williams , Ken Williamson , Ned Willis , Vic Wilson , Hack Wilson , Jimmie Witt , Whitey Wood , Joe Yerkes , Steve Youngs , Ross Zachary , Tom Zimmer , Chief
Code:Abe , Iso Bancroft , Frank Barrow , Ed Bulkely , Morgan Cartwright , Alexander Caylor , O. P. Chance , Frank Clarke , Fred Commiskey , Charlie Conlan , Charles Connolly , Tom Cooper , Andy Creighton , Jim Cummings , Candy Dinneen , Bill Doubleday , Abner Dreyfuss , Barney Dunn , Jack Elias , Al Munro Foster , John B. Fullerton , Hugh Gleason , Kid Griffith , Clark Hanlon , Ned Hillerich , John Huggins , Miller Jennings , Hughie Klem , Bill Landis , Kenesaw Lardner , Ring Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W. McCarthy , Tommy Mendez , Jose Mills , A. G. Moran , Pat Mutrie , Jim Navin , Frank Norworth, Jack Osborn , Frank Reach , A. J. Rice, Grantland Richter , Francis Robinson , Wilbert Ruppert , Jacob Selee , Frank Shibe , Ben Spink, Albert Stallings , George Taylor , C. I. Thayer , Ernest Ward , John M. Warfield , Frank White , Sol Wilkinson , J. L. Wilson , Horace
Last edited by jalbright; 04-12-2009 at 01:14 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Researcher/advocate/mod
My ballot:
Players
1. Lefty Grove
2. John M. Ward
3. Mule Suttles
4. Sherry Magee
5. Zack Wheat
6. Paul Hines
7. Fred Clarke
8. Gabby Hartnett
9. Dazzy Vance
10. Harry Stovey
11. Goose Goslin
12. Ted Lyons
Contributors
1. Jim Creighton
2. Bill Klem
3. Francis Richter
4. Ed Barrow
5. Kennesaw Landis
Shuffled my contributor list a bit, and added Barrow to replace the elected Hulbert. The depth of the newcomer player class caused Grimes and Galvin to disappear for a while. They will eventually return.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
Players
01. Lefty Grove
02. Zack Wheat
03. Joe Jackson
04. Sherry Magee
05. Gabby Hartnett
06. Dazzy Vance
07. Fred Clarke
08. Pie Traynor
09. John M. Ward
10. George Sisler
11. Goose Goslin
12. Rabbit Marranville
Contributors
01. Jim Creighton
02. Bill Klem
03. Ed Barrow
04. Francis Richter
05. Kennesaw Landis
Last edited by Domenic; 04-12-2009 at 01:46 PM.
Registered User
Anyone who thinks that none of us agree on anything, check out those two ballots!
That makes me feel good about leaning to Hanlon and Comiskey rather than Barrow and Landis ;-) but I'll mull the contributors for a while longer. Meanwhile here is another early take on the players. Grove and Hartnett are elite players. I'm not sure about Suttles and McPhee but here they are for now. Goslin and Lyons seem to me good players behind other good players.
Players
1 Grove
2 Hartnett
3 Clarke
4 Hines
5 Ward
6 Barnes
7 Johnson G
8 Gore
9 Groh
10 Colllins J
11 Suttles
12 McPhee
Sunday, May 14, 1978
Players
1. Lefty Grove
2. Joe Jackson
3. Fred Clarke
4. Zack Wheat
5. Goose Goslin
6. Sherry Magee
7. Willie Keeler
8. Sam Thompson
9. Elmer Flick
10. Bill Terry
11. Harry Stovey
12. Pete Browning
Contributors
1. J. Creighton
2. A. Cartwright
3. B. Klem
4. F. Richter
5. E. Barrow
Quote
"A ballplayer has to just go out and be mean. You can't play half-heartedly. If you do, there's someone right over your shoulder that'll take your job away. If you don't do your job, what they're paying you for, why should they pay you? You just can't put in eight hours, that's what a lot of people don't realize about athletes. Very few people realize the pressure." Dave Kingman
1. Lefty Grove
2. Sherry Magee
3. Pie Traynor
4. Heinie Groh
5. Gabby Hartnett
6. Max Carey
7. Frank Chance
8. Rabbit Marranville
9. Bid McPhee
10. Joe Tinker
11. Johnny Evers
12. Roger Bresnahan
1. Charles Comiskey
2. Ed Barrow
3. Jack Dunn
4. A.J. Reach
5. Bill Klem
History Mod
1) Lefty Grove
2) Ross Barnes
3) John Ward
4) Paul Hines
5) Fred Clarke
6) Gabby Hartnett
7) Jimmy Collins
8) Charlie Bennett
9) Dazzy Vance
10) Charlie Radbourne
11) Rube Waddell
12] Mule Suttles - I honestly have no idea whether this should be Mule or Goose, but Suttles gets the benefit of the doubt
1) Alexander Cartwright
2) Francis Richter
3) Dickey Pearce
4) Commissioner Landis
5) Bill Klem
carpe baseball
Players
1. Lefty Grove
2. Mule Suttles
3. Paul Hines
4. Gabby Hartnett
5. John Montgomery Ward
6. Goose Goslin
7. Sherry Magee
8. George Sisler
9. Fred Clarke
10. Edd Roush
11. Dazzy Vance
12. Heinie Groh
I've put Groh ahead of Traynor, Collins and Sutton at third now. Zack Wheat was the 13th man on this ballot for me.
Contributors
1. Francis Richter - best writer on the board
2. Ed Barrow - best executive on the board
3. Alfred H. Spink
4. Bill Klem
5. Frank Selee - best manager on the board
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
2004 & 2007
Players:
1. Lefty Grove
2. Gabby Hartnett
3. John M. Ward
4. Jimmy Collins
5. Mule Suttles
6. Ross Barnes
7. George Sisler
8. Sam Thompson
9. Old Hoss Radbourn
10. Paul Hines
11. Zack Wheat
12. Frank Grant
Contributors:
1. Francis Richter
2. Jim Creighton
3. C. I. Taylor
4. Bill Klem
5. Ed Barrow
Registered User
1. Lefty Grove
2. Gabby Hartnett
3. Ted Lyons
4. Paul Hines
5. Dazzy Vance
6. Elmer Flick
7. Ross Barnes
8. Grant "Home Run" Johnson
9. Stan Coveleski
10. Fred Clarke
11. Hughie Jennings
12. Charley "Old Hoss" Radbourn
Supreme Dictator For Life
1. Lefty Grove
2. John M. Ward
3. Jimmy Collins
4. Gabby Hartnett
5. Max Carey
6. Dazzy Vance
7. Fred Clarke
8. Paul Hines
9. Mule Suttles
10. Sherry Magee
11. Goose Goslin
12. Ted Lyons
Contributors:
1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Francis Richter
3. Jim Creighton
4. Bill Klem
5. Kenesaw Landis
Jim, I think you have William Hulbert listed in both the eligibles and HOFers.
carpe baseball
Doc Adams, too.Originally Posted by AstrosFan
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
Researcher/advocate/mod
Thanks for catching the Adams and Hulbert errors (as still eligible as contributors). I had been away for a couple of days and did this in haste, and what resulted was there for all to see. Sorry about that, but glad you folks keep me on my toes. Those errors have been fixed.
We now have a quorum on the player side, but are still two short of that mark on the contributor side.
Last edited by jalbright; 04-12-2009 at 01:24 PM.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Supreme Dictator For Life
If I couldn't keep you on your toes, I would have no purpose in life
Registered User
1. Lefty Grove
2. Charlie Bennett
3. Paul Hines
4. Mule Suttles
5. Zack Wheat
6. Pud Galvin
7. Jimmy Collins
8. Rube Waddell
9. Ross Barnes
10. John M Ward
11. Ezra Sutton
12. Fred Clarke
1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Jim Creighton
3. Bill Klem
4. Kennesaw Landis
5. Francis Richter
1955 1959 1963 1965 1981 1988
1889 1890 1899 1900 1916 1920
1941 1947 1949 1952 1953 1956
1966 1974 1977 1978
1983 1985 1995 2004 2008 2009
1996 2006
Researcher/advocate/mod
I sincerely hope your life is better than that. If not, you have my deepest sympathies.If I couldn't keep you on your toes, I would have no purpose in life
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
carpe baseball
BlueBlood -
With the quality of - both "modern" and 19th Century - stars hanging around the ballot, I'm curious what your case for Charlie Bennett ranking so highly is? I'm not even sure I'd put Buck Ewing in the #2 spot on this ballot if he were still available.
Mind humoring me with a persuasive argument?
"When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff." -- Cicero
1. Lefty Grove
2. George Sisler
3. Monte Ward
4. Gabby Hartnett
5. Jimmy Collins
6. Hoss Radbourne
7. Pie Traynor
8. Bob Caruthers
9. Goose Goslin
10. Joe Jackson
11. Bill Terry
12. Dazzy Vance
1. Jim Creighton
2. AJ Reach
3. Albert Spink
4. Landis
5. Klem
I moved Jimmy Collins up and Traynor down
Researcher/advocate/mod
We now also have a quorum on the contributor ballot.
Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Registered User
1 Lefty Grove
2 Mule Suttles
3 Gabby Hartnett
4 Paul Hines
5 Goose Goslin
6 Fred Clarke
7 Ross Barnes
8 Joe Start
9 John M. Ward
10 Jimmy Collins
11 Dazzy Vance
12 Zack Wheat
Eradicate, wipe out and abolish redundancy.
Free El Duque! -- discover how the HOF rules are cheating this renowned member of Torre's Yankees dynasty and ask the HOF to include him on the ballot for the next BBWAA election.
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