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Reply With Quotelol so i'm guessing i should start aligning my knuckles like them
Hey i was just woundering what the correct bat grip is? I was told by a coach a while back to align your knocking knuckles while holding on to the bat before you swing. Can't really remember why he told us to do it haha. But the more and more i watch baseball on tv i see players not aligning their knocking knucles. So im pretty confused now lol
Here's the mlb knuckle alignement
http://niketown.nike.com/niketown/me...s_1024x768.jpg
lol so i'm guessing i should start aligning my knuckles like them
I think you answered your own question. Few pros "align" their knocking knuckles.Originally Posted by RRVPioneer
"He who dares to teach, must never cease to learn."
- John Cotton Dana (1856–1929) - Offered to many by L. Olson - Iowa (Teacher)
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Agree.
You want to get to a strong position to initiate the swing like the batters shown above ... and if aligning the door knocking knuckles inhibits that for you, then you want to avoid that.
You also want to get to a position like the hitters shown below at/near contact.
You might consider backwards chaining ... i.e., getting into a 'contact' position shown below, and backing up to a strong position like the hitters shown above. My students get it when I have them do this. I stopped teaching a specific grip a while back ... as I'm much more interested in moving through a contact position similar to that shown below, from a power position similar to that shown above.
Interesting. I was at my local cages today and saw a cork board with how to line your hands up in the grip. It said to align the knocking knucks up for maximum wrist roll.
I tried it for a few swings and went away from it.
I like the mild overlap grip here:
"Interesting. I was at my local cages today and saw a cork board with how to line your hands up in the grip. It said to align the knocking knucks up for maximum wrist roll."
To the contrary, aligning the door-knocking knuckles can be a good thing to the degree that it inhibits wrist-roll prior to contact, enabling flat-hands at contact. It used to make some sense in the context of the "power-V" contact position that used to be taught.
The way the swing is taught nowadays, with a non-extended contact position deeper in the zone, the knocking-knuckles grip only makes sense as a band-aid approach for low-level hitters who don't bother getting their hips open prior to contact, or for older hitters who are ingrained with hitting the ball out in the front of the plate with a "power-V" position.
Or for anyone who feels more comfortable using this grip.
RRVPioneer,
Good advice by all. There is so much bad (or incomplete) advice over the last 100 years that you could write a thousand books about it. And “swing thoughts” can not be taken literally in my opinion.
In the pics that Five Frame Swing graciously posted, take a close look at the “cupped” or “bent” wrists in every one. This is the “common denominator” that every MLB hitter shares. Teach your hitters to grip the bat lightly and where the fingers of both hands join at the hands to achieve this. This will promote “tip and rip” as well as increased late bat speed just before impact with the ball.
Also, and of equal importance (in my opinion), the grip will tighten somewhat during the load and beginning of the swing so make sure your hitters take very light/loose grip to begin with. Otherwise they will slow there swings down in order to maintain bat control.
Just my opinion. I am no guru, but have studied this for over 20 years.
THop
I have to go with Five on this, because I don't feel that the previous pictures of grips he posted really tell us anything. None of the players shown above actually have their hands positioned like they do in the pictures at contact, you would never see the great extension and follow-through that they produce if they did; it's just physically impossible . . . Manny is a perfect example.
Manny’s hand position at start . . . “knockers” not lined up:
Manny’s hand positon at contact . . . “knockers” lined up:
How about Albert . . .
Start:
Contact:
Julio?
Start:
Contact:
The start positioning is personal preference/feel, and really not all that important . . . it’s where they are at contact that really matters.
Mudville,
In my opinion,
I believe all the pictures posted in this thread prove a very important point that is supported by the Hanson Principle. Every MLB hitter, grips the bat in order to gain cupped/bent wrists (not knuckle alignment) which promotes tip and rip and great power just before impact/contact with the ball.
THop
That's fine, but I don't believe that the "Hanson Principle" is necessarily appropriate for all levels of youth hitting instruction.
IMO, the MLB swing is gained incrementally and the "Hanson Principle" can be detrimental if taken and used at face value by inexperienced instructors and/or well meaning dads.
At load it seems like the bottom hand door knocking knuckles are lined up somewhat with the upper big (bottom) knuckles of the top hand. At contact the palm down, palm up position seems to result in more door knocking knuckles lined up.
Can someone describe the cupped/bent wrist in more detail? Which hand is cupped vs. bent and which way.
Baseballdad,
By cupped/bent wrists I mean “L” shaped between the back of both fore arms and hands (like every picture in this thread).
Both wrists are constantly and fluidly bending back and forth between say a 25-50 degree during the stance, move back, load and swing. After contact, this changes but like the top hand on/off the bat-it doesn’t matter.
It’s hard to teach 12U players for 2 reasons. One, smaller hands. Two, some still have a tendency to sling their bats.
THop
Gotcha thanks.
Lining up knocking knuckles is not a bad cue in itself. However, the reason you don't see the pros doing this is it is very difficult to get the knuckles in that position when you have your back elbow up in your stance. The pros prefer to have the back elbow up and the knuckles go where they go.
SC
Mudville,
“That's fine, but I don't believe that the "Hanson Principle" is necessarily appropriate for all levels of youth hitting instruction".
That’s fine as well (because of huge differences in size and strength, right?). But I do think Mark H made a great point. If a MLB player (or team) is consistently doing it (between the lines), we owe it to ourselves to find out why and explain it to our kids in terms they can understand.
And “cupped”/”bent”/”L shaped”/”45 degree” wrists are a prime example. In my opinion.
THop
Not disagreeing with you that "cupped" wrists are something you see at the MLB level, but when assimilating that to youth swing, what benefit are you trying to obtain by having them start from this position?
IOW's if a student asks, "Coach, why do I have to hold my wrists like that?" what do you tell him?
I would hope it's not . . . "Because that's what the pros do."
Mudville,
I teach them to grip the bat lightly and where the fingers join at the hands (to achieve the cupped/bent wrists), not the other way around.
And if they don’t already do this properly, I usually tell them why they should before they ask. It goes something like this-“I know this feels a little uncomfortable because you still have real small hands but go ahead and start practicing with it because as you get older it will help you absolutely mash the baseball”. Then I show them some pics of a few famous MLB hitters doing it to further prove my point. And with 12U kids, many times they also have poor hip action so in no time at all you can have them hitting the ball twice as hard (and far) as they ever have. I like to see their face trying to hold back a smile or cracking a smile when they look at mom or dad. That’s really why I continue to coach. My own sons are all grown.
THop
"But coach, WHY will it make me, "absolutely mash the baseball" when I get older?"
Are you really saying that getting "cupped/bent wrists" with a grip will compensate for poor hip action and hitters will hit the ball "twice as hard (and far)" just with a change in grip, because that's how you see MLB hitters hold the bat?
If your answer is "yes", then I really stand by my statement that, "the "Hanson Principle" can be detrimental if taken and used at face value by inexperienced instructors and/or well meaning dads."
Hopefully, I just read your post wrong . . . please expand on your thoughts of the physiological/biomechanical advantage gained by "cupped/bent wrists" at set-up, that contributes to "hitting the ball twice as hard (and far)."
I am on pins and needles awaiting this magical answer.... I can hear it now, "Show me coach!! Show me how to compensate for my poor hip action by just changing my grip so I can hit HR's too!! Please coach, show me!!"
Mudville/Hitnpeas
Sorry guys. Did not mean to insinuate the bent/cupped wrists would cure improper hip action. Only that I often encounter young kids who do neither well. Just wanted to share how I emphasize both as major power contributors. Hamstrings/Hips/Glutes first and hands/wrists next.
I guess I am a better teacher in person than over the internet but I’ll keep working at it.
Thanks again,
THop
PS: Please don’t sweep the cupped/bent wrists under the rug so to speak. Every MLB hitter I have ever seen has these regardless of where his knuckles align.
THop, thanks for clearing that up, I thought I might have read it wrong.
We're in agreement that the hands and wrist do contribute, but I think we agree for different reasons. I also think you may be reading into this "cupped/bent wrists" things a little too far, and also placing your emphasis for attaining it in the wrong place.
You see, the "cupped/bent wrists" is a result of the positioning of the elbows in relationship to the bat (angle) at setup and not really by how they grip the bat, although that does play into it slightly.
The reason you see "cupped/bent wrists" on "Every MLB hitter" you have seen (I would saw most, but . . . ) is because most start with their rear elbow up (vs. lower, almost slotted, in some youth hitters) which causes the "cupping" of the top wrist and most hold their bats vertical or tip them towards the pitcher causing the "cupping" of the bottom wrist. The higher they hold the rear elbow, the less the "knocker knuckles" will line up (also increasing bat tilt towards the pitcher) and that is why you see the cupping "regardless of where his knuckles align" . . . it is a result, not a cue.
As shown in the above pictures, the pros will allow their grip to alter as they start slotting the rear elbow in order to facilitate a palm up/palm down positioning ("knocker knuckles" aligning) at contact. The few that don't alter, make the adjustment with an increased bend in the lead elbow.
So by aligning the "knocker knuckles" (which will also cup/bend the wrists some) in youth hitters, all you are really doing is making it easier for them to obtain a good palm up/palm down grip at contact and help them avoid rolling over the top wrist as early . . . which may help them achieve better elevation on the ball and therefore make it travel further as you may be seeing (there is no increased "power" benefit from the "cupped/bent wrists" in and of themselves).
I think you'd get more bang for your buck working on starting elbow positioning and proper slot timing versus whether or not their wrists are cupping and to what degree, but that's just may thoughts . . . you have to do what you feel comfortable with.
Good luck and keep 'em swingin',
Mud
Last edited by mudvnine; 04-15-2009 at 09:42 AM.
wow this thread is VERY interesting. It's amazing how a proper grip can really change how you swing the bat. Looking at these pictures I am in shock at how much different I grip the bat and I never thought my grip was wrong because I just always gripped the bat the way I do.
What I do is grip the bat with both all 10 of my fingers wrappeda round the bat. Very basic uniform. I never realized you really could just hold it to get a better whip like Chase Utley and Arod's bottom hand index finger is slightly off. I believe I read in the Ted Williams book that he held it similiar. He described it like your holding a hammer if my memory serves me correct.
Anyways I am in shock how Manny's hands look in some of those shots at contact. How you can see the bat in between both hands. You definetley can't see the bat at all in my grip at contact or at any point in the swing.
One thing that I noticed that was wrong with my swing and I could never fix it for the life of me was the swing plane. It's hard to describe but I'll try. When I take a dry swing I notice that I kind of dog leg the bat. It's like a wavy swing. Very hard for me to describe on here but I hope somebody knows what I mean. I blame it on my grip now. It's almost like my bottom wrist is too much extended up instead of flexed down towards the ground at the point of contact. This causes the bat to dog leg. I hope you guys know what I am talking about. Well I think this is related to my grip. Can anybody help??
A hitting coach I used to work with talked about cupped/bent wrists. Even after reading this I don't understand. Could someone explain to me what cupped/bent wrists are? And what the benefits are?
Was really hoping someone could answer the above question...hint hint..
get it your stance. Get bat up. Roll top hand until the pitcher can see the palm of your top hand. There you go.
Top hand wrist should be cupped and palm should be facing the pitcher.
