Registered User
I'm with you! I never thought I would ever say this:Originally Posted by LostMet
If we had a third straight season collapse on the last day of the
season that wouldn't be so bad in comparison.At least that kept
our interest all year!
I am not going to be playing the 2009 Mets in Strat O'Matic when
it comes out.If I did I would probably break a finger or trip over the
computer wire while playing!
Grote said to Koosman:"You don't give up any runs,we'll guarantee you
at least a tie."(lol)
Registered User
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsO...57R3KY20090828
Mets owners will sell due to Madoff losses: author
Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:23pm EDT
By Ben Klayman
CHICAGO (Reuters) - The owners of the New York Mets will be forced to sell the pro baseball team due to huge losses suffered in the Bernard Madoff swindle, the author of a book about the disgraced money manager said on Friday.
The Wilpon family, led by Mets owner Fred Wilpon, lost about $700 million because of Madoff, according to Erin Arvedlund, author of "Too Good to Be True," published earlier this month.
Arvedlund said she does not know the terms of the Wilpons' bank loans but said the losses are steep enough that a sale of the baseball team is certain.
"It's qualified by when," she said. "It's possible they would have to sell by next year."
Fred Wilpon was among thousands of investors defrauded by Madoff, himself a Mets fan. Wilpon bought a stake in the Mets in 1980, raised his share to 50 percent six years later, and purchased the rest with his family and others in 2002.
Madoff pleaded guilty earlier this year to running the biggest investment fraud in Wall Street's history, which prosecutors said bilked investors out of as much as $65 billion. Madoff is serving a 150-year prison sentence.
A Mets spokesman was not immediately available. The team and the Wilpons have repeatedly said the family's Madoff losses will not force a sale or affect the club's operations.
A team spokesman told MarketWatch that Arvedlund's loss projection is inaccurate.
Some bankers have speculated the Wilpons would be forced to sell all or part of the Mets, while others said a sale of part of the Mets cable TV channel SportsNet New York was more likely.
If the team were sold, it would likely fetch more than the $845 million that a group led by Tom Ricketts, a Chicago investment banker and son of the founder of TD Ameritrade Holding Corp, is paying for the Chicago Cubs and other assets, analysts said.
The Mets play in a larger market, control their own sports network and play in a ballpark that opened this season.
In April, Forbes magazine estimated the Mets were worth $912 million, trailing only the New York Yankees among Major League Baseball teams.
(Reporting by Ben Klayman; editing by John Wallace)
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Retired User
Now you'll have a new owner to complain about, Mongoose.
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Is it 2012 yet.
I can't think of anyone interested in buying a major league team who can A) put that kind of money together and B) would get approved by the rest of the owners.
The only person with the balls to attempt something like that is Mark Cuban, and his $1.3 billion bid already got shot down by the rest of the owners in MLB (which I personally think should violate some kind of anti-trust law, regardless of how I feel about Cuban).
It should be noted that Rickett's offer for the Cubs is heavily bank funded, and altogether a much less attractive package then the one Cuban proposed both in dollar amount and source/payout terms.
I am pretty skeptical the team will be sold, more likely I think that part of SNY will be sold, payroll will be shed, and the Mets as a team will get alot worse, and as always the fans will be the ones who suffer. And for those of you thought it oculdn't get any worse...just wait.
Last edited by Frogshiem77; 08-28-2009 at 12:55 PM.
"Nobody ever won a World Series drinking milk"
-Doug Sisk, RP 1986 Mets
Retired User
Mark Cuban has had money issues though.
I highly doubt they will sell the team. Even though they lost a lot of money, the team and SNY is a source of revenue for them.
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Retired User
Article in the Times refutes he's going to sell the team
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/29/sp...lpon.html?_r=1
Wilpon Addresses Doubts Over Madoff Losses and Mets
Fred Wilpon, the Mets’ principal owner, tried Friday to temper concerns that he and his team had been scarred financially by the losses caused by a vast Ponzi scheme run by his former friend Bernard L. Madoff. He said he had no intention of selling the team.
“I’m fine, my family’s fine, my business family’s fine,” Wilpon said by telephone from Aspen, Colo., where he was vacationing. His son, Jeff, the team’s chief operating officer, made similar remarks shortly after Madoff’s $65 billion fraud was revealed in December. But Fred Wilpon felt the need to emphasize again that the finances of the team had not been affected.
Although he did not divulge what he, his business, Sterling Equities, or his family had lost — “that’s personal stuff,” he said — he noted that the estimates of the losses were wildly inaccurate and wildly high. One estimate of $700 million was reportedly made to GQ magazine in March by the talk show host Larry King, a friend of Wilpon’s who is also a Madoff victim.
“Larry told me that he never said a specific number, only that it was a vast number,” Wilpon said.
The same figure was used by Erin Arvedlund, author of “Too Good to Be True,” a new book about the Madoff fraud, in an interview with Marketwatch.com on Friday. She predicted that the losses would cause Wilpon to sell the Mets, as soon as 2010.
“It’s a matter of when,” she said.
But Wilpon, who would say only that his Madoff-related investment losses were “significantly” below $700 million, said the Mets were an “emotional asset” that he was not selling. He said he would not sell even to recoup the money stolen by Madoff.
Wilpon paid $135 million in 2002 to buy out Nelson Doubleday’s half of the team, and the team’s value has appreciated greatly since then.
“My long-term goal has always been to have my son and my grandchildren involved with the Mets, if they choose to be, and Jeff has chosen to be,” Wilpon said. “Would I sell a building on whatever street, in whatever city? I have no problem with that. I have no emotional attachment to them.”
The Mets “are part of our lifestyle, what we feel in our hearts,” he said. “You feel great when they play well, you feel wounded when they’re not. The team is what we want for our next generation. It’s for them.”
The Mets, hampered by injuries and poor play, are in fourth place in the National League East with a 58-71 record. Nearly all of the team’s stars — Carlos Delgado, Jose Reyes, Carlos Beltran, David Wright and Johan Santana — are on the disabled list, as have been lesser players. The team’s accumulated woes have created a dismal product for Wilpon to sell in the first season at Citi Field, where 94 percent of the season’s tickets have been sold for a far smaller ballpark than its predecessor, Shea Stadium.
“It’s been a difficult season,” Wilpon said.
Bob DuPuy, the president of Major League Baseball, said that the Mets’ financial reports, which are filed quarterly, like those of other teams, have shown no financial distress or need to worry about the team’s long-term future under the Wilpons.
“It’s business as usual,” DuPuy said. “I’ve only seen distress in the performance on the field and in the injuries. But I’ve seen enormous satisfaction in the reception for the new ballpark, which has generated significant new revenue. I’m confident that the only disappointment for the Wilpons is that they expect a pennant-contending team every year, and they thought they had one at the start of this season.”
Wilpon’s businesses, including the Mets, are privately held, making it extremely difficult to verify his or DuPuy’s assertions. Wilpon said that the Mets were proceeding, as they usually do, into planning for next season. The resources available to him — revenue from luxury suites, club seats and a nearly 70 percent stake in the SNY network and his real estate holdings — have not been compromised by Madoff, he said.
“Are we all saddened by what Bernie Madoff did to our family? Yes,” he said. “But we’re probably more saddened by what he did to people who can’t fight back, who are really affected financially. To be betrayed by a friend is a burden. You don’t expect that to happen. I’ve known him for 30 years.”
Wilpon, his family, friends and employees of Sterling Equities fill many pages on the list of Madoff victims. Also among the defrauded investors are Sandy Koufax, the Hall of Fame pitcher and a friend of Wilpon’s; the former Met Tim Teufel and his wife, Valerie; the Brooklyn Cyclones, a Mets minor league team; and the Wilpon family foundation.
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Registered User
Well, if Fred and Jeff Wilpon say it, I guess it must be so.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Retired User
Them selling the team is a pipe dream for fans like you. Even though they lost money with Madoff, the team is still a source of revenue for them.
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Registered User
I think this will be the big story regarding the Mets for a while.
I'm a bit torn.
On the one hand I'm immensely dismayed that Fred got away with building a new stadium the size of Pittsburgh's PNC Park (metropolitan area of 2.5 million) in a metropolitan area of 22.5 million. When he inevitably sells and his successors eventually build a good team, the supply and demand issues mean that tickets will be very expensive and hard to come by.
On the other hand Fred's insatiable greed, which drove him to push for that shrunken stadium when Shea was perfectly serviceable, will probably be the thing that drove the stake through his heart. Even though he stuck the public with most of the tab, he still took on a lot of debt to finance the mall. Combined with the slump in real estate and the Madoff Affair, it adds up to the perfect storm.
It will be a case of poetic justice. The greedy fool got hoisted by his own petards.
The problem is the rest of us will be stuck with phony supply and demand issues and obscene prices in the event of a good team for the rest of our lives.
Fred Wilpon: the gift that keeps on giving.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
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Mongoose
The best part of the Post article are the messages left by the fans. If you look at various sports forums , there seems to be an intense dislike of the Wilpons. There are a few, maybe a dozen or so, on BF that continue to wave pom poms and praise Fred and Jeff, but I am starting to wonder if they are 'plants'. Just like that 'biggie' character who popped up a few times and exposed his intents on more than one occasion. Even I had to laugh when he was warning people on here that we were going to get sugar or sand in our gas tanks if we did not park in Fred's $18 lot., or we all needed to call 311 to report incidents on 126th street, etc. What a riot!
I have no doubt that some people on here will be trying to drum up support for Wilpon for 2010, and claim that free agents like Lackey will sign with the Mets (without explaining why one would leave a team that has been a contender for 7 years running and come to the Mets) and that all will be well , and the line for FST's begins right here.
Speaking of plants on here, about a month or so ago someone on here was claiming they 'spoke to Jeff on the phone". Really now. I have not found the posting, but I am still looking. I wish Jeff would call me.
Registered User
That fellow is fortunate. It appears Jeff generally keeps to his own society these days; at least as far as the press is concerned:Mongoose
The best part of the Post article are the messages left by the fans. If you look at various sports forums , there seems to be an intense dislike of the Wilpons. There are a few, maybe a dozen or so, on BF that continue to wave pom poms and praise Fred and Jeff, but I am starting to wonder if they are 'plants'. Just like that 'biggie' character who popped up a few times and exposed his intents on more than one occasion. Even I had to laugh when he was warning people on here that we were going to get sugar or sand in our gas tanks if we did not park in Fred's $18 lot.
I have no doubt that some people on here will be trying to drum up support for Wilpon for 2010, and claim that free agents like Lackey will sign with the Mets (without explaining why one would leave a team that has been a contender for 7 years running and come to the Mets) and that all will be well , and the line for FST's begins right here.
Speaking of plants on here, about a month or so ago someone on here was claiming they 'spoke to Jeff on the phone". Really now. I have not found the posting, but I am still looking. I wish Jeff would call me.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/24/sp...lpon.html?_r=1
Disquieting Hush Envelops Floundering Mets
A pretty cool name for an article, IMO. In "The Paper Of Record", no less.
You're right about the bulk of Mets fans, though: they get what's going on. I don't know why that guy was so upset with me; most other Mets fans all over the internet are much harder on the Wilpons than I am - and for good reason. Wilpon's purge of the 1986 team and assembly of the wretched team of the early 90s drove me away from the franchise for years. I still get angry thinking about it: 20 years of sickening mismanagement coupled with stunning greed.
I just hope the new owners let a qualified baseball man handle personnel decisions, bring back Banner Day and Old Timer's Day, etc. and put in another 15,000 seats. Then the healing for Mets fans can begin.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Registered User
You can learn something new every day, and today my 10 year old daughter had her first cheerleadling 'rehearsal' for opening day. She told me "Daddy, you say it wrong, it's really not POM-POM, but POM-PON. Everyone just says pom-pom out of habit".
Pom-PON as in WILPON. Ironic, eh?
Registered User
This article was posted in the “Cursed?” thread. Still, I thought the final paragraph of the piece ought to be inlcuded here, as it echoes the OP pretty exactly.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...x.html?eref=T1
For decades now, the Mets have operated on a boom-and-bust cycle under management with sketchy lines of authority. This has gone on under enough different regimes that one suspects it has less to do with Minaya and field manager Jerry Manuel or any of their predecessors than with the one constant over this time, the same Wilpon family everyone expects to see wheeling hot dog carts down the street in exchange for hard currency any day now. They're the ones who brought Mets fans Frank Tanana and Anthony Young, Jeff Duncan and Jason Phillips, Cory Sullivan and Jeremy Reed, and they're probably the ones who will have to go if the team is to put on something other than a hideous parody of winning baseball. For now, Murphy will continue to hit third.
Perhaps more interesting, though is this article:
http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...here-1.1409452
The Mets have canceled their Instructional League, held annually in Port St. Lucie, and instead will have a "modified" program at their baseball academy in the Dominican Republic, according to general manager Omar Minaya.
The GM said other teams also have considered scrapping their instructional programs, usually conducted in September when the minor-league seasons have finished, and the amount of money at stake is substantial.
One person familiar with the situation said the Mets will save roughly $250,000 with the move, or a little more than half the major-league minimum salary for one player.
Former Mets GM Jim Duquette spoke Sunday about the team's decision to cancel the Instructional League on his Sirius XM radio show.
"It gives you a chance to extend the development of your young players, of your prospects," Duquette said, "and they're not gonna have it. They have canceled it for this fall. And to me, being a development guy, that's big news. If you're development-oriented, it's not a good decision, in my opinion."
In a statement late last night, the Mets defended the move, saying: "We believe that by housing our minor-league players in the Dominican, we will have more opportunities to have competition against opposing teams that have training facilities nearby. Over the past few years in Port St. Lucie, the competition has predominantly been among our own players as a result of other teams leaving the area."
The Mets also pointed out that the Cardinals, located 45 minutes south in Jupiter, have canceled their Instructional League program and that the Marlins, who share that facility with St. Louis, have cut back to a minicamp in September.
Another cost-saving move could involve the Mets' limited plans for their September call-ups; Minaya does not anticipate a big influx of minor-leaguers for the final month of the season. The only certain addition appears to be Double-A catcher Josh Thole, who is expected to arrive Tuesdaywhen the roster expands, but few players will follow him to the majors.
There are 40-man roster implications to those decisions, but there also is money involved. Each September call-up earns roughly $70,000 for the month. That may not seem like much in the big picture, but for a team going nowhere and looking to tighten the budget, it's an easy way to trim costs.
Even as the Wilpons repeatedly deny a need to sell the Mets, how they operate the team will come under more intense scrutiny in the months ahead, especially during what many feel will be a thrifty offseason for them in the free-agent market.
One of the factors in keeping Minaya and the front office intact is the financial cost of cleaning house. The Wilpons are reluctant to swallow more than $10 million in management contracts to start over again.
The Wilpons already have told Minaya and manager Jerry Manuel that they will be back next season, but it remains unclear what more ownership is willing to invest in 2010 to cover up the stench left by this terrible season.
Still think the Coupons aren't in deep trouble?
Last edited by Mongoose; 09-01-2009 at 09:42 AM.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Registered User
The Mets September call-ups are already on the major league roster or on the major league DL.
Registered User
According to NUMEROUS others.....the mets moved the instructional league to the domican because other teams have left florida as well
"all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner
"Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver
Registered User
Mets fans need to stay away from the ballpark in droves next season. Do not buy tickets. Do not buy merchandise. Our only hope is to force a sale of the team.
Registered User
sorry....I go to games as enjoyment. Been doing it since I was 5, not stopping now. Call me whatever you want, doesn't matter. Baseball is meant to be enjoyed....and Im not gonna let some owner stop me from doing that. Life is too damm short buddy.
"all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner
"Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver
Registered User
and Duquette took back his claim on his comment......the mets WILL field an instructional league in the dominican....BECAUSE of the lack of competition in florida now...as alot more teams have their instructionals in the dominican
"all the mets road wins against the dodgers this year have occured at Dodger Stadium"---Ralph Kiner
"Blind people came to the park just to listen to him pitch"---Reggie Jackson, talking about Tom Seaver
Registered User
But don't let facts get in the way of a good Wilpon rant.
I agree with your previous post. The games are entertainment. Due to habit/tradition/fan mentality, whatever, I choose to continue following this team.
There are better owners, there are worse owners. Somehow I don't let Fred Wilpon ruin my day
yhc
ditto ! ..
Registered User
Well, some might give that as a reason to stay away from the ballpark.Life is too damm short buddy.
Registered User
Which brings us back to the original point: Wilpon's squads have not provided satisfying entertainment. Period. Think 1993: that's the Wilpon archetype.
It's not even just about wins and losses. Wilpon & Son have been assembling 20 years of gutless, disinterested teams that either fail completely or spit the bit when it counts and provide bad feelings rather than enjoyment. Even when they've had "good" seasons, you still walk away feeling unhappy, disgusted or even distraught. For those old enough, compare this to 1985. I was at the ballpark the day they were eliminated. We all stood up when the Cardinals score flashed in the scoreboard and gave that team a standing ovation because they fought valiantly and gave it their all. I don't believe a team has to win to be entertaining or satisfying. There's been something fundamentally wrong with Mets baseball for 20 years. It's simply joyless.
Part of it is probably a consequence of the changes at the ballpark Wilpon has wrought. In the old 77-83 days you could at least get a decent ticket from the box office for a reasonable price and enjoy being at Shea with a few thousand of your closest friends; and in those days other Mets fans did feel like your friends. Despite the losing, the experience was enjoyable. The new place is divided into numerous club areas and catacombs for the people Fred likes best: moneyed corporate suits like himself. You no longer feel the same sense of unity at the ballpark because Fred went out of his way to destroy this.
Fred drove prices through the roof and shrunk the ballpark in an attempt to drive away any fan that couldn't afford season tickets. Although this seems to be blowing up in his face, I do not forgive this and I do not forget this. I have bought my tickets for every game but one on the secondary market (at a healthy loss for the principal ticket holder) and will forego attending rather than directly helping this venture succeed.
Wilpon has also sterilized the ballpark experience of every element of local character, franchise history, respect for franchise history and charm. How telling it was that he found room on the outfield walls for ad after ad after ad, but the championship banners were mounted out of view on the opposite side of the wall.
At some point fans just have to say "no, I will not tolerate being screwed, and I will not tolerate the franchise I love being disrespected and used only as a cash cow". To do otherwise simply makes you an enabler in your own suffering.
This is wrong.
At this stage of the game, the Minor League teams in the area provide more enjoyment and deserve fan dollars far more than Wilpon. If push comes to shove, and "baseball is meant to be enjoyed" I'd prefer to patronize them instead.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Retired User
No, he didn't. Every new stadium has been like this. But as metfan13 said, why let facts get in the way of a rant on Wilpon?
"I'm happy for [Edwin Encarnacion] because this guy bleeds internally, big-time" -Dusty Baker
"If on-base percentage is so important, then why don't they put it on the scoreboard?" -Jeff Francoeur
"At the end of the day, the sun comes up and I still have a job" -Joba Chamberlain
Registered User
As usual, where you're concerned, I beg to differ.
The difference here is Wilpon's pricing structure. Outside of the thin cusp at the top of the stadium known as "Promenade", nothing else at the stadium is consistently available at a face price below $50 a ticket.
You don't find appalling economic segregation like that at "Citi Field" elsewhere in the league.
"The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!
Registered User
With Mongoose it's all giong to come back around to Fred and the new ballpark. On and on, post after post.
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