The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

[WEB]

My biggest laugh at the whole anti Wilpon mission is that Shea Stadium was packed before closing and people were throwing around all sorts of money to get into Citi Field in 2009. Many of those currently on the anti Wilpon mission were those same people who proudly proclaimed "life long Met fan status" during the end of Shea, beginning of Citi period. I wonder how many on here would be able to forgive the villian Wilpons if they gave them a winning product? Would they care about all the peoples lives the Wilpons ruined? Would they care about the poor Madoff victims who also had no suspicions why only they could get 20% rate of return each year? Would they care that the guys who fix transmissions across the street for less because they do not pay taxes would have to find a new place to conduct business at current market value rent. I tend to believe that most, if not all of the "life long Met fan crew" may be more than willing to come back on board when the team begins to win again, which they will, someday. Don't you think it is hypocritical that people who have spent so much time knocking this Ownership group will be so quick to come back when there product is winning again? I wonder how many posts a Fair Weather Fan Thread would generate? Not many, nobody likes to find fault in themselves.

In 2008 if you were anti-Fredo you were a troll here who must be removed and the enemy of all that is good and right. In 2009 it came off like a civics lesson how for the betterment of New York how generational businesses in that community before Shea must be removed for Fredo Wilpon, and Jeff-R-Us playing boy developer.

By 2010, the spending was going down, the complaints were going up and it went downhill from there, the curtain got pulled back with Madoff becoming Fredo's, Howard Spira moment but far worse for so many people.

Everyone's seen this act before when a convicted felon x2 got a seventeen minute ovation upon being permanently banned, but the next generation of fans were bought off, the team won and the media sells winning teams which makes a felon, a reborn beloved figure who wants to win more than anything. (while sucking down all the taxpayer cash he can get)

If the spending goes up here, and the team wins the defense of anything done will be defended again with a ton of positive media fertilizer propaganda to influence that generation's perception.

Go team go.

Most of the same players or management that roasted the convicted one all knew where future payday's came from after retirement looked the other way or hopped on the bandwagon because to be anti-ownership is not good for them personally with media who influence the public.

The newspaper needs these teams, they will sell any owner no matter what he represents if it sells papers and the team wins.

Someday when the Mets win and eventually all teams do, Jeff-R-Us will be making his monument for Fredo like the convicted one got in the Bronx, some of the same people who complain now, will be the first to go and praise it.

[rjsallstars]

In 2008 if you were anti-Fredo you were a troll here who must be removed and the enemy of all that is good and right. In 2009 it came off like a civics lesson how for the betterment of New York how generational businesses in that community before Shea must be removed for Fredo Wilpon, and Jeff-R-Us playing boy developer.

By 2010, the spending was going down, the complaints were going up and it went downhill from there, the curtain got pulled back with Madoff becoming Fredo's, Howard Spira moment but far worse for so many people.

Everyone's seen this act before when a convicted felon x2 got a seventeen minute ovation upon being permanently banned, but the next generation of fans were bought off, the team won and the media sells winning teams which makes a felon, a reborn beloved figure who wants to win more than anything. (while sucking down all the taxpayer cash he can get)

If the spending goes up here, and the team wins the defense of anything done will be defended again with a ton of positive media fertilizer propaganda to influence that generation's perception.

Go team go.

Most of the same players or management that roasted the convicted one all knew where future payday's came from after retirement looked the other way or hopped on the bandwagon because to be anti-ownership is not good for them personally with media who influence the public.

The newspaper needs these teams, they will sell any owner no matter what he represents if it sells papers and the team wins.

Someday when the Mets win and eventually all teams do, Jeff-R-Us will be making his monument for Fredo like the convicted one got in the Bronx, some of the same people who complain now, will be the first to go and praise it.

Sad but true. In the words of another legend, the great Al Davis, "Just win baby".

[Paulypal]

Sad but true. In the words of another legend, the great Al Davis, "Just win baby".

Sad and not true.

I dont believe some of us will ever be in Wilpons corner regardless of the outcome. That doesnt mean we dont want him to put a winner on the field or spend money properly to do so, but to be a "fan" of Wilpon is something I can never be.

Although Steinbrenner was dispicable for much of the time he was the active owner one thing never waivered - he wanted a winner on the field and did what he felt was necessary to do so - including spending a lot of money. So yes George has a statue because people have short memories, but most of us have not forgotten how horrible he was.

The issue with Wilpon is that he just refuses to put a winner on the field or take the steps to do so. Wilpon has come up with some of the lamest excuses to NOT sign some of the best players of their time to come here. Sometimes by facilitating a smear campaign, or having one of his lackies do so.

Then there is the fact that he was deeply involved in THEE biggest scam in human history which should tell you something about his character. Once the stolen money dried up --- so did the Mets. Much of the dislike of the Wilpons is directly connected to wins and losses. Winning can make people over look a lot of ills as we said of Steinbrenner. With that said, Wilpon has proven himself dispicable beyond repair. If WEB is correct and the Mets win with Wilpon still the owner - he will not be part of the celebration in my minds eye. He will be ignored.

The best Wilpon can do in my estimation is become like a good umpire - you dont know he is there. He should never be celebrated or acknowledged. Anyone that follows this team can see why there was a peak and why the last 4 seasons there has been a deep deep valley. I honestly believe without the stolen money Wilpon doesnt invest that much into putting a winner on the field. This should be obvious because since that dried up the Mets have become a minor league team.

[PVNICK]

As much as I malign and ridicule Steinbrenner, Pauly hit upon the key difference. These guys don't appear to give a *@#$ about whether the team wins or loses.

[rjsallstars]

Can we agree that the majority of "lifelong Met fans" who are claiming to be so appauled by the Wilpons dispicable actions really are staying away because the team currently is not a playoff contender? Can we also agree that most if not all of those same fans will be buying tickets and inquiring about plans/season tickets etc if the team is in a legitimate pennant race in September of 2014 and Sandy's plan actually does produce a winning team, no matter what the payroll is?

[WEB]

Can we agree that the majority of "lifelong Met fans" who are claiming to be so appauled by the Wilpons dispicable actions really are staying away because the team currently is not a playoff contender? Can we also agree that most if not all of those same fans will be buying tickets and inquiring about plans/season tickets etc if the team is in a legitimate pennant race in September of 2014 and Sandy's plan actually does produce a winning team, no matter what the payroll is?

Absolutely. The bandwagon fans, the diehards all fall in line and reality is many do not care who the owner is or what he's done if his team is winning and there are the casual fans who do not even know (or care) who the owner is.

The corporations are people club are as ruthless and vindictive as Fredo.

Last year's team was eight games over five hundred at the break and in a playoff spot, if they played five hundred in the second half, got a wild card it would be criminal to knock Fredo for most again, all would have been forgiven.

Sadly many New York fans admire the convicted felons x 2 brand of spending like it was done out of pocket and at a loss to him for the good of winning above all when nothing could be further from the truth. It's the only template many Mets fans see for trying to building a winning team.

[Paulypal]

Can we agree that the majority of "lifelong Met fans" who are claiming to be so appauled by the Wilpons dispicable actions really are staying away because the team currently is not a playoff contender? Can we also agree that most if not all of those same fans will be buying tickets and inquiring about plans/season tickets etc if the team is in a legitimate pennant race in September of 2014 and Sandy's plan actually does produce a winning team, no matter what the payroll is?

If they were winning yes it would be different, BUT because of what has come to light in the past few years the Wilpons will always be villified in my book. Can I seperate the team and the Wilpons...yes of course I can, but right now they are a direct reflection of their neglect and a their "couldnt care less" attitude towards its once loyal fan base.

Its not a matter of payroll - I dont care if the payroll is $4. Its about winning. The payroll needs to be whatever supports playing some games in October. Now we all know a payroll of $4 is not going to get it done, but my point is its about winning.

I happen to watch the MLB Network at least 50% of the time that my TV is turned on. Watching this off season I felt like I was getting information, and watching transactions from a league that the Mets were no longer playing in. The Angels, the Dodgers, dominated the top stories, but other teams were mentioned.....at least once. The Mets were no where to be found on anything. Sure there were some fake reports about Upton but that was it. You see and hear other teams trying to improve to compete and yours is not. We actually lost our best OF'er (sad that Hairston can be considered that), and our best pitcher. So the team is actually worse...much worse.

Do any of the Wilpon supporters realize that the Mets dont have an outfield. When a ball is hit through the infield there is no one there to pick it up right now.

After 2008 - I knew 2009-2012 was coming. Before every season despite some of the most optimistic fans it was quite obvious what kind of teams we had. What I didnt know or think possible was that 2013 can quite possibly be the worst of the bunch.

[Strawman]

If they were winning yes it would be different, BUT because of what has come to light in the past few years the Wilpons will always be villified in my book. Can I seperate the team and the Wilpons...yes of course I can, but right now they are a direct reflection of their neglect and a their "couldnt care less" attitude towards its once loyal fan base.

Its not a matter of payroll - I dont care if the payroll is $4. Its about winning. The payroll needs to be whatever supports playing some games in October. Now we all know a payroll of $4 is not going to get it done, but my point is its about winning.

I happen to watch the MLB Network at least 50% of the time that my TV is turned on. Watching this off season I felt like I was getting information, and watching transactions from a league that the Mets were no longer playing in. The Angels, the Dodgers, dominated the top stories, but other teams were mentioned.....at least once. The Mets were no where to be found on anything. Sure there were some fake reports about Upton but that was it. You see and hear other teams trying to improve to compete and yours is not. We actually lost our best OF'er (sad that Hairston can be considered that), and our best pitcher. So the team is actually worse...much worse.

Do any of the Wilpon supporters realize that the Mets dont have an outfield. When a ball is hit through the infield there is no one there to pick it up right now.

After 2008 - I knew 2009-2012 was coming. Before every season despite some of the most optimistic fans it was quite obvious what kind of teams we had. What I didnt know or think possible was that 2013 can quite possibly be the worst of the bunch.

That somebody here can actually type "Sandy's plan" and mean it says a lot about how some fans can delude themselves because they love the team. You know, in some ways I actually have to admire it.

But to me, it's horrendous how ownership/management have run down a franchise that actually (still) has such fans!

[rjsallstars]

That somebody here can actually type "Sandy's plan" and mean it says a lot about how some fans can delude themselves because they love the team. You know, in some ways I actually have to admire it.

But to me, it's horrendous how ownership/management have run down a franchise that actually (still) has such fans!

I guess I am that somebody, and believe it or not there are others who choose not to contribute to this nothing but negative thread anymore who think there is a plan also. You may not like it but with no disrespect to your ability and experience in running a front office I would hold three executives (Alderson, Depodesta and Ricco) who have years of experience running actual MLB franchises thoughts on rebuilding a broken franchise in higher regards than yours. Unless you hold no regard for young talent how can you say the Mets have not developed a better than average farm system with several high end pitching prospects who may help the team on the field or be used to trade for other pieces that may help? Why must good baseball moves be equated with buying players? The Mets current Major League roster is not going to win anything next year but there ENTIRE farm system has recently been ranked 14 overall in MLB and they were the only franchise to have 2 players in the top 30. You may not agree with the plan, but it is VERY foolish to say there is not one and that the plan is not being followed and to this point meeting its objectives. Please do not tell me which free agents they should have signed and that if there payroll was 140 mil they would be in better shape. We saw just what a overrated underachieving 140mil payroll will get you a few years ago and I predict we may see what a 200 mil overrated over the hill payroll will get you this year in the Bronx.

[Mongoose]

I guess I am that somebody, and believe it or not there are others who choose not to contribute to this nothing but negative thread anymore who think there is a plan also. You may not like it but with no disrespect to your ability and experience in running a front office I would hold three executives (Alderson, Depodesta and Ricco) who have years of experience running actual MLB franchises thoughts on rebuilding a broken franchise in higher regards than yours. Unless you hold no regard for young talent how can you say the Mets have not developed a better than average farm system with several high end pitching prospects who may help the team on the field or be used to trade for other pieces that may help? Why must good baseball moves be equated with buying players? The Mets current Major League roster is not going to win anything next year but there ENTIRE farm system has recently been ranked 14 overall in MLB and they were the only franchise to have 2 players in the top 30. You may not agree with the plan, but it is VERY foolish to say there is not one and that the plan is not being followed and to this point meeting its objectives. Please do not tell me which free agents they should have signed and that if there payroll was 140 mil they would be in better shape. We saw just what a overrated underachieving 140mil payroll will get you a few years ago and I predict we may see what a 200 mil overrated over the hill payroll will get you this year in the Bronx.

I give you credit for sticking to your guns rjsallstars. I must call foul, though. I was slamming Wilpon here even when the Mets were contenders. "You could look it up." Baseball failures aside, his greed and contempt for others have been on parade a long time.

Fred wanted to make the new stadium season ticket holders only, so he slashed capacity by nearly a third. He then moved the bulk of seats down to the expensive lower bowl - while simultaneously moving an enormous amount of seating into the outfield. He also wanted to reconfigure the ballpark experience into an orgy of consumption, so obviously the prime seating areas had to be hijacked for suites, clubs, restaurants, etc.

Wilpon built a monument to his insatiable need for "More". In its way it sums up much of what's bad in society today. It's a lightless cluster of retail areas with a ball field in the middle. Mets baseball takes a back seat. Wilpon's real mission is to expand his subsidized retail areas over his neighbors' land like a tapeworm expanding itself throughout a host's bowels.

I think a lot of fans have developed such a distaste for the product Wilpon offers that it would require an enormous amount of winning to wash it away. It might not be possible, especially with Wilpon apparently unlikely to ever again spend commensurately with revenue. I'll agree: some will forgive and forget if winning ever occurs; probably enough to fill the artificially low number of seats. For some reason I can't figure out, others will keep throwing money and support at Wilpon with no winning required. Right rj?

[Mongoose]

Hold onto your hats: The Wilpons are trying to build a casino next door to "Citi Field"!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...y4cJtLtuqgMmkK

I can see it now. Fred and a cabal of sleazy cronies plotting new villainy in a back room of the newly opened casino. The single malt and cigars flow freely. By night's end the tab is enormous. Fred signs for it without leaving a tip. Their table hasn't been easy. Jeffy was especially abusive. The waitress's anger swells, swamping her timidity. "What about my tip?". "You want a tip?" Fred's thin lips twist into a wry smile. A pregnant pause. Fred: "Don't bet on the Mets." The table of tipsy villains erupts in drunken laughter.

Bring your kiddies and bring your wife...

Aren't MLB owners forbidden to be involved with gambling, or is Fred exempt from all restrictions and standards?

[Paulypal]

Hold onto your hats: The Wilpons are trying to build a casino next door to "Citi Field"!

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/b...y4cJtLtuqgMmkK

I can see it now. Fred and a cabal of sleazy cronies plotting new villainy in a back room of the newly opened casino. The single malt and cigars flow freely. By night's end the tab is enormous. Fred signs for it without leaving a tip. Their table hasn't been easy. Jeffy was especially abusive. The waitress's anger swells, swamping her timidity. "What about my tip?". "You want a tip?" Fred's thin lips twist into a wry smile. A pregnant pause. Fred: "Don't bet on the Mets." The table of tipsy villains erupts in drunken laughter.

Bring your kiddies and bring your wife...

Aren't MLB owners forbidden to be involved with gambling, or is Fred exempt from all restrictions and standards?

I think this answers any questions that need to be answered about Fred Wilpon.

[rjsallstars]

I give you credit for sticking to your guns rjsallstars. I must call foul, though. I was slamming Wilpon here even when the Mets were contenders. "You could look it up." Baseball failures aside, his greed and contempt for others have been on parade a long time.

Fred wanted to make the new stadium season ticket holders only, so he slashed capacity by nearly a third. He then moved the bulk of seats down to the expensive lower bowl - while simultaneously moving an enormous amount of seating into the outfield. He also wanted to reconfigure the ballpark experience into an orgy of consumption, so obviously the prime seating areas had to be hijacked for suites, clubs, restaurants, etc.

Wilpon built a monument to his insatiable need for "More". In its way it sums up much of what's bad in society today. It's a lightless cluster of retail areas with a ball field in the middle. Mets baseball takes a back seat. Wilpon's real mission is to expand his subsidized retail areas over his neighbors' land like a tapeworm expanding itself throughout a host's bowels.

I think a lot of fans have developed such a distaste for the product Wilpon offers that it would require an enormous amount of winning to wash it away. It might not be possible, especially with Wilpon apparently unlikely to ever again spend commensurately with revenue. I'll agree: some will forgive and forget if winning ever occurs; probably enough to fill the artificially low number of seats. For some reason I can't figure out, others will keep throwing money and support at Wilpon with no winning required. Right rj?

I never said you jumped off the bandwagon when the winning stopped and the payroll dried up. I stated that most who have chosen to take the high moral ground and "boycott" the team because of the evil Wilpons will be very forgiving once the team begins to win. That is a frontrunner, plain and simple and they ARE the majority. I am a baseball fan who roots for the Mets. I always thought Met fans were different. We are loyal, maybe to a fault. If I had the courage to be a 10-12 year old Met fan in NYC during the late 70s Yankees run I damn well can survive a 75 win season watching what may become a dominant pitching staff develop. If others can only enjoy the game of baseball if there team wins thats fine. Do not get me wrong, I love to win, but I can enjoy watching young talent develop. I also do not have the time to be fixated on something I despise. If I ever did make a decision to step away from baseball, or the Mets, I would not spend so much time killing them. I would rather spend time on something I enjoy. BTW, you are going to have a field day on this casino story, enjoy!

[Strawman]

I never said you jumped off the bandwagon when the winning stopped and the payroll dried up. I stated that most who have chosen to take the high moral ground and "boycott" the team because of the evil Wilpons will be very forgiving once the team begins to win. That is a frontrunner, plain and simple and they ARE the majority. I am a baseball fan who roots for the Mets. I always thought Met fans were different. We are loyal, maybe to a fault. If I had the courage to be a 10-12 year old Met fan in NYC during the late 70s Yankees run I damn well can survive a 75 win season watching what may become a dominant pitching staff develop. If others can only enjoy the game of baseball if there team wins thats fine. Do not get me wrong, I love to win, but I can enjoy watching young talent develop. I also do not have the time to be fixated on something I despise. If I ever did make a decision to step away from baseball, or the Mets, I would not spend so much time killing them. I would rather spend time on something I enjoy. BTW, you are going to have a field day on this casino story, enjoy!

I've been a Mets fan since 1969. I've never boycotted the team. I'm simply buying 95% fewer tickets from the Wilpons now, mainly because my kids no longer want to go since the Reyes debacle - compounded by the Dickey debacle - compounded by the bizarre Alderson regime. It's a total mess.

I'm not front running. Heck I'm not running. I'll die a Mets fan. But I call it as I see it and I'm far, far from naive. My experience tells me this: there is no plan.

Indeed, if they sign Bourn, it's pure proof there really is no plan, and as a reactive a signing as *anything* that happened during the (more successful) Minaya era.

[Gary Dunaier]

Hold onto your hats: The Wilpons are trying to build a casino next door to "Citi Field"!

1) If Judge Landis were still commissioner, the article linked to in Mongoose's post would be enough for him to force the Wilpons to sell the team.

2) If this were to come to pass - I don't think it will, and I hope it doesn't - I think Pete Rose would have a legitimate claim for removal from the ineligible list.

[rjsallstars]

I've been a Mets fan since 1969. I've never boycotted the team. I'm simply buying 95% fewer tickets from the Wilpons now, mainly because my kids no longer want to go since the Reyes debacle - compounded by the Dickey debacle - compounded by the bizarre Alderson regime. It's a total mess.

I'm not front running. Heck I'm not running. I'll die a Mets fan. But I call it as I see it and I'm far, far from naive. My experience tells me this: there is no plan.

Indeed, if they sign Bourn, it's pure proof there really is no plan, and as a reactive a signing as *anything* that happened during the (more successful) Minaya era.

You have your opinion which you have every right to express but again I will lean towards the guys who have made decisions like this for years and have been very successful in the past and are well respected in their field by others who know what they are doing. Most "lifelong Met fans" will begin to pack the house once they begin to win, its alright. I am sure I will also have to pay more for my same seats once the Mets win and my perks will go down, I guess, right or wrong, thats the way things work. My son still loves to go to games. He watched Reyes play for Miami last year, I even bought him a Reyes shirt in Florida last year while we were at spring training. Now he likes Tejada at short and enjoys the way he conducts himself professionally and likes the way he works pitchers and plays a very steady defense. We can go to a Mets game and root for Tejada to do well. We do not need to hate the Mets and hold a grudge because they made a decision not to pay a guy over 100 mil who has had leg issues. People are different, I guess.

[GordonGecko]

The Mets are in rebuilding mode, there's nothing wrong with that. They're waiting to get Santana and Bay's contracts off the books and that money is expected to be spent on new talent. They should be lining up to be competitive soon, but when they have the foundation in place they need to start spending even above the new money that came off the books. The Wilpons are making a lot of profit through SNY with a below-market TV rights contract that's sheltered from MLB revenue sharing. They need to spend that money, because even with the recent price cuts people still pay a lot of money to see the Mets play and they should be getting adequate value for their money. Sports owners in general have no respect for their fanbases, which is pretty tragic. The exception that comes to mind is George Steinbrenner (his kids have zero respect it's 100% about maximizing profits) and Mark Cuban. If only a guy like Cuban owned the Mets, they would be at the top of the division every year AND they would be profitable

[WEB]

This is a 2011 non-story that tells most what they already know about Fredo and the city willing to give them anything they want.

Mike Illitch via his wife Marian is about one inch lower than Fredo on the human garbage scale. He got his taxpayer funded baseball stadium, neglected Tiger Stadium while getting paid maintain it and milked every penny he could get out of it, then had bulldozers waiting to tear into the grandstand within minutes of a court decision to defeat a group trying to make it a museum because he did not want competition to his taxpayer funded ballpark in a place where vacant buildings stand for generations. Now he wants another development where he's paid via the taxpayers for an arena.

Almost seems Marian Illitch grabbed for this deal from NY in 2011:
http://www.crainsdetroit.com/article...ts-voted-down#

[Paulypal]

I never said you jumped off the bandwagon when the winning stopped and the payroll dried up. I stated that most who have chosen to take the high moral ground and "boycott" the team because of the evil Wilpons will be very forgiving once the team begins to win. That is a frontrunner, plain and simple and they ARE the majority. I am a baseball fan who roots for the Mets. I always thought Met fans were different. We are loyal, maybe to a fault. If I had the courage to be a 10-12 year old Met fan in NYC during the late 70s Yankees run I damn well can survive a 75 win season watching what may become a dominant pitching staff develop. If others can only enjoy the game of baseball if there team wins thats fine. Do not get me wrong, I love to win, but I can enjoy watching young talent develop. I also do not have the time to be fixated on something I despise. If I ever did make a decision to step away from baseball, or the Mets, I would not spend so much time killing them. I would rather spend time on something I enjoy. BTW, you are going to have a field day on this casino story, enjoy!

More than erroneous here.

I am boycotting going to Met games but by no means am I a front runner.

Front running in my opinion is ignoring a team because they are losing. That reason alone is not nearly why I am boycotting this horrible Wilpon owned mess. I need to see a team TRY to win. TRY to put a professional team on the field. TRY to compete. Right now we are not getting any kind of effort at all. We are being slapped in face and told to come back for more.

RJ if you get slapped in the face by a "partner" (and dont kid yourself - the team/fan relationship should be a partnership) and go back and ask for more...then so be it. Its your choice. I opt to expect an effort on both sides...mine and theirs.

Like Straw - I have been a Met fan for 40+ years and have gone through some horrendous periods blindly rooting and hoping with very little in return. I find it disgusting to see ownership treat the fans in the manner they have since the stolen money stopped rolling in. Disgusting.

What I find more disgusting are fellow fans that dont get it. Fans that root for a team because it says METS across their shirt regardless of anything else. I find it disgusting that after 40+ years of rooting for a team through all kinds of crap...and believe me its been mostly crap...that you get called a front runner. It takes a huge amount of nerve for someone to call fans of a team for that many years a front runner.

You go ahead and love your Wilpon owned Mets while your getting your pocket picked while watching a AA team. Your call.

[rjsallstars]

A quick definition of "frontrunner" on google basically says someone who only shows interest in a team when they win. By that definition, you or any of the frequent flyers on this site are not "frontrunners" because you are still showing interst even though they are losing. I do think you have a flare for the dramatic when you say this team is not trying? Really?, not at all? Tell that to players who will wear the uniform next year. I root for the players. I do not root for the owners, but I also do not root against them. I believe thats not in a team I like best interests and have no time for the negativity. You also state a fan/team relationship is 2 ways, which it is. You feel the team is not living up to their end of the bargain? Well what exactly is there end of the bargain? Are you looking for a guarantee that your team will win? Thats not going to happen. Do you expect every move will pay instant dividends? thats not realistic. Do you think you deserve more because you live in a certain part of the country and your team should try harder than the other 29 who also want to win? There's another name for that. Do you feel your boycotting this team, which I take as financially(not buying tickets) may actually be slowing down the process of rebuilding this team?

I have pre bought Met tickets via a partial or season plan for most of the last 30 years. I can honestly say the Mets are more fan friendly now then they have ever been. Please read other threads for examples of perks, dedicated sales reps who actually help you find a location that works for you and believe it or not a price point for tickets that I feel is fair which is supported by me being able to recoup my investment via the secondary market for games I cannot use.

Now be honest with yourself and ask this question? If the Mets somehow develop a good team under Wilpon Ownership, will you watch more, which increases ad revenue or maybe even purchase tickets, which goes directly into the evil hands that you and others have berated thousand of times in the last few years? Or maybe even ask yourself the question, Have I supported this team financially in the past while they put a winner on the field while fully knowing whose grimmy hands my money was going to? That answer may be more damning? Maybe we cannot call it frontrunning but can we at least agree to call it hypocritical?

And I do get that me and my family have enjoyed going to Citifield over the last few years despite the lack of championships. I also hope that maybe a good lifes lesson will be taught to my kids. Don't give up on something when its down and sticking with something during bad times makes the enjoyment of the good times even better. Now I think thats why we should be proud to be a Mets fan.

[Strawman]

A quick definition of "frontrunner" on google basically says someone who only shows interest in a team when they win. By that definition, you or any of the frequent flyers on this site are not "frontrunners" because you are still showing interst even though they are losing. I do think you have a flare for the dramatic when you say this team is not trying? Really?, not at all? Tell that to players who will wear the uniform next year. I root for the players. I do not root for the owners, but I also do not root against them. I believe thats not in a team I like best interests and have no time for the negativity. You also state a fan/team relationship is 2 ways, which it is. You feel the team is not living up to their end of the bargain? Well what exactly is there end of the bargain? Are you looking for a guarantee that your team will win? Thats not going to happen. Do you expect every move will pay instant dividends? thats not realistic. Do you think you deserve more because you live in a certain part of the country and your team should try harder than the other 29 who also want to win? There's another name for that. Do you feel your boycotting this team, which I take as financially(not buying tickets) may actually be slowing down the process of rebuilding this team?

I have pre bought Met tickets via a partial or season plan for most of the last 30 years. I can honestly say the Mets are more fan friendly now then they have ever been. Please read other threads for examples of perks, dedicated sales reps who actually help you find a location that works for you and believe it or not a price point for tickets that I feel is fair which is supported by me being able to recoup my investment via the secondary market for games I cannot use.

Now be honest with yourself and ask this question? If the Mets somehow develop a good team under Wilpon Ownership, will you watch more, which increases ad revenue or maybe even purchase tickets, which goes directly into the evil hands that you and others have berated thousand of times in the last few years? Or maybe even ask yourself the question, Have I supported this team financially in the past while they put a winner on the field while fully knowing whose grimmy hands my money was going to? That answer may be more damning? Maybe we cannot call it frontrunning but can we at least agree to call it hypocritical?

And I do get that me and my family have enjoyed going to Citifield over the last few years despite the lack of championships. I also hope that maybe a good lifes lesson will be taught to my kids. Don't give up on something when its down and sticking with something during bad times makes the enjoyment of the good times even better. Now I think thats why we should be proud to be a Mets fan.

Actually my kids delivered some pointed advice - and a lesson - for me:

"Don't be a sucker, Dad!"

[WEB]

Now be honest with yourself and ask this question? If the Mets somehow develop a good team under Wilpon Ownership, will you watch more, which increases ad revenue or maybe even purchase tickets, which goes directly into the evil hands that you and others have berated thousand of times in the last few years? Or maybe even ask yourself the question, Have I supported this team financially in the past while they put a winner on the field while fully knowing whose grimmy hands my money was going to? That answer may be more damning? Maybe we cannot call it frontrunning but can we at least agree to call it hypocritical?

It's absolutely hypocritical, and for many of them the answer will be damming so they will not go near that question.

The day will come when this team has success again, and that's when they will return to see Fredo and Jeff-R-Us team in their Brooklyn Dodger stadium, many will suddenly defend the newly re-branded tough hard decisions they complain about today which will be spun into what needed to be done to finally produce a winner the so called " right way. "

History always has a sad way of being selectively rewritten when it finally produces results.

[Paulypal]

Now be honest with yourself and ask this question? If the Mets somehow develop a good team under Wilpon Ownership, will you watch more, which increases ad revenue or maybe even purchase tickets, which goes directly into the evil hands that you and others have berated thousand of times in the last few years? Or maybe even ask yourself the question, Have I supported this team financially in the past while they put a winner on the field while fully knowing whose grimmy hands my money was going to? That answer may be more damning? Maybe we cannot call it frontrunning but can we at least agree to call it hypocritical?

It's absolutely hypocritical, and for many of them the answer will be damming so they will not go near that question.

The day will come when this team has success again, and that's when they will return to see Fredo and Jeff-R-Us team in their Brooklyn Dodger stadium, many will suddenly defend the newly re-branded tough hard decisions they complain about today which will be spun into what needed to be done to finally produce a winner the so called " right way. "

History always has a sad way of being selectively rewritten when it finally produces results.

Few points here. I havent seen Citi Field so if you want to say that my cable money is going to the Wilpons in some way fine. Call that hypocritical. I havent put a dime in their hands by going to the park since the Madoff thing hit the fan. When they did have a winning team the Wilpon thing was not at the forefront so I didnt knowingly support the Wilscums.

Now answer a question yourself. Are they really trying? Is the organization really trying? If you think ownership is giving any kind of effort you are just justifying how and why you spend your money. Are the players trying? Or course they are. What does that mean? They have AA & AAA players trying. I can go see the Ducks play and see that 15 minutes from my house. By trying I mean that ownership is putting a Major League team on the field. They are not.


WEB -- your beautiful dude. You can spew your crap all you want, but I will never defend anything these Wilscums do. Will I go to a game if I see an organizational/fan partnership where they attempt to put a real team on the field. Yes I probably would. If thats damning then let me be damned......I guess. First and foremost I want a real team on the field.

This is all speculation at this point because they are far from having a real team, and history states that there is no way they have a good team over a period of time. Its like Haley's comet. They are good then they fade because building a winning team from top to bottom is something foreign to the Wilscums.

[WEB]

Organizational/fan partnership

That made my day, and no, I'm not making fun of you.

Bloomberg, Mario Cuomo chest bumping with Fredo outside court or some past press conference or development pr schtick or when Fredo tells Bloomberg to send the cops around Willets Point for some nice organizational fan partnership with the eminent domain notices is the only partnership they know.

In 2009 Met fans around here sounded like Fredo demanding the generational businesses must go for Fredo's organizational fan partnership.

Hey we robbed thousands of people, please take some free land as a reward to go with your taxpayer funded mallpark.

After all what's a mallpark without real mall to go with it.

But when things finally do turn on the field-GO TEAM GO, winning cures all.

They got the public, the neighborhood and the fans by the throat. There's your organizational fan partnership win or lose where it be 2006, 2008, 2009, 2013.

Hint, that's the same everywhere. Fredo's only worse in his traits of how he wrecked the brand permanently which has nothing to do with payroll or on field results and his off field issues which are enormous requiring his immediate removal with Jeff-R-Us.

For the thirteen teams spending more than the Mets and most of the teams spending less the words organizational fan partnership are the equivalent of hearing the words stick em up as you pay what they tell to to pay for parking, concessions, tickets or the fun stories by dstoffa about Fredo's security chasing down fans for seat jumping and the infamous stories of the convicted felon's security in the Bronx.

[Paulypal]

That made my day, and no, I'm not making fun of you.

Bloomberg, Mario Cuomo chest bumping with Fredo outside court or some past press conference or development pr schtick or when Fredo tells Bloomberg to send the cops around Willets Point for some nice organizational fan partnership with the eminent domain notices is the only partnership they know.

In 2009 Met fans around here sounded like Fredo demanding the generational businesses must go for Fredo's organizational fan partnership.

Hey we robbed thousands of people, please take some free land as a reward to go with your taxpayer funded mallpark.

After all what's a mallpark without real mall to go with it.

But when things finally do turn on the field-GO TEAM GO, winning cures all.

They got the public, the neighborhood and the fans by the throat. There's your organizational fan partnership win or lose where it be 2006, 2008, 2009, 2013.

Hint, that's the same everywhere. Fredo's only worse in his traits of how he wrecked the brand permanently which has nothing to do with payroll or on field results and his off field issues which are enormous requiring his immediate removal with Jeff-R-Us.

For the thirteen teams spending more than the Mets and most of the teams spending less the words organizational fan partnership are the equivalent of hearing the words stick em up as you pay what they tell to to pay for parking, concessions, tickets or the fun stories by dstoffa about Fredo's security chasing down fans for seat jumping and the infamous stories of the convicted felon's security in the Bronx.

Glad I somehow made your day. I will see what I can do tomorrow.