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Thread: The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

  1. #3361
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  2. #3362
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    He was also a rabid Brooklyn Dodgers fan. Did you make it to Citi Field the year it opened? It was a shrine to the Dodgers. There wasn't a thing in the ballpark to celebrate the Mets's history or legacy. My contempt for the Wilpons predates the ponzi scheme money strapped version they are today.

    I'm not a Yankees fan, and find it hilarious how many numbers they have retired (seriously, Roger Maris and Reggie Jackson did not play on that team long enough) but they at least got it right with a memorial park and everywhere in the ballpark you are reminded of their legacy. Not a team that played in Brooklyn and is now playing in Los Angeles.
    I always felt the stuff about Fred being a big Dodgers fan rang fraudulent.

    I think his handlers felt it good PR to pretend he had passions besides greed.

    Here was Fred's original plan for a new stadium:

    NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT: WILLETS POINT Enough Yankees Already. The Mets Have Their Own Plans

    By NORIMITSU ONISHI
    Published: July 24, 1994

    Even as the Yankees' future in the South Bronx becomes more and more uncertain, the Mets are making sweeping plans that could profoundly alter the face of Queens.

    Fred Wilpon, a co-owner of the team, said that if all goes according to his plans, the Mets will be playing in a new domed stadium just east of Shea within four years. The old Shea Stadium will be torn down and replaced by a giant parking garage. Around it, Mr. Wilpon said, there will be an entertainment center with a permanent, high-tech "world's fair."

    The plans were announced last year, but within the next two weeks, the Mets are to give the city a report detailing projected costs and financing of the stadium, and the city will begin the process of relocating small businesses in the area of growth.

    Rudy Washington, the commissioner of the city's Department of Business Services, said that after reviewing the Mets' report, he and community leaders would discuss the project's impact on Queens. He planned to speak with business owners in the Willets Point Industrial Park, just east of Shea Stadium. Those businesses will have to be moved to make way for the stadium and entertainment center, he said.

    Although Mr. Wilpon declined to reveal projected costs of the stadium, he said revenues from its operation would cover construction costs. "We will not ask for any general funds from the city or the state," he said.

    Shea Stadium, which opened in 1964, is owned by the city. The Mets' lease expires at the end of 2,004.

    The Mets hope a new stadium and entertainment center will return attendance figures to the levels of the mid to late 1980's, when about 3.5 million fans went each season. Last season, attendance was 1.8 million.

    Proponents of a domed stadium say the Shea, while adequate, lacks the distinctiveness that makes the stadiums in Toronto and Baltimore inspire crowds, no matter how well the hometown teams perform. They say the 30-year-old structure is rundown and "generic" and could not be part of an entertainment mecca attracting tourists who would otherwise not visit Queens.

    Mr. Wilpon said the Toronto Blue Jays have averaged four million for the last three years, partly because of the team's success, but also partly because of its new Skydome. To reach those attendance figures, he said, baseball must be supplemented with other kinds of entertainment.

    The project is still more drawing paper than contract, but Mr. Wilpon's dreams are detailed. He hopes companies will set up pavilions to showcase a particular theme, like the Wild West, and ticket buyers would be transported there through virtual-reality and other interactive technologies.



    Besides being a delusional misuse of other peoples' money all this had in common with what eventually happened was it required eliminating Doubleday and separating his neighbors from their land.

    No mention of Ebbets Field, though. Fred didn't become passionate about recreating Ebbets Field until he discovered the dome would cost more than he could suck from the public tit. At that point Fred became a misty-eyed sentimentalist.

    In light of the subsequent greed fueled destruction of the team, the following article needs to be read to be believed:



    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    Mets unveil model of new stadium
    Facility will pay homage to New York and club's history


    By Bryan Hoch / Special to MLB.com

    NEW YORK -- Speaking about the Mets' 21st century field of dreams on Thursday, Fred Wilpon struggled to maintain his composure, his voice cracking with emotion.

    As the Mets unveiled their digital visions for tomorrow, releasing images of a new ballpark, Wilpon was thinking not of the computer-generated plans for the striking open-air, baseball-only facility or its modern-day amenities.

    Wilpon's thoughts had drifted back to his own personal field of dreams, Brooklyn's Ebbets Field.

    Suddenly, Wilpon could see himself at eight years old, holding his father's hand and walking through the elaborate rotunda, embracing an afternoon in the sun to watch his beloved team.

    "It chokes me up every time I look at the plans," Wilpon admitted.

    Suddenly, a new slate of future memories does not appear quite so far away.

    Highlighted by the exhibition of a stunning 360-degree, three-dimensional computer model, the Mets' next home was displayed in a ceremony at Shea Stadium's Diamond Club on Thursday.

    "We heard Fred talking about the stadium, not in terms of dollars and cents, but thinking back to when he went to Ebbets Field with his father," New York Governor George Pataki said. "You could sense the emotion in his voice. This is not just a business venture; this is a passion of bringing people together."...




    It's a shame this board doesn't have a vomiting emoticon.

    This might be the most nauseating, dishonest piece I've ever read in a sports section.

    I suspect the whole Wilpon/Dodgers thing was propaganda to give the disgusting real estate boondoggle some sort of context regular fans could relate to. Problem was Fred wasn't a Mets fan and was so out of touch with the fan base that he blew it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Is being used as a moral fig leaf really an honor?


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  3. #3363
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Honoring him in a way that is insulting to his wife and family because it's not an accurate depiction is a good thing?

  4. #3364
    Yeah, all things considered, I think the Jackie presence at Citi Field is a good thing. It inspired my son.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  5. #3365
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    Honoring him in a way that is insulting to his wife and family because it's not an accurate depiction is a good thing?
    What am I missing here? Rachel Robinson herself dedicated the rotunda. I was under the impression she was happy with his values depicted there.

  6. #3366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Yeah, all things considered, I think the Jackie presence at Citi Field is a good thing. It inspired my son.
    I think the Jackie Robinson presence is good also, I am glad it inspired your son. I do not think they honored the the Giants enough or for that matter their own history. They really didn't honor NY national league baseball, they honored the Brooklyn Dodgers. Willie Mays and Tom Seaver should have had similar sections. The Rotunda is a beautiful entrance for a sports stadium. It could have been divided in a more equitable fashion if the intent was to honor NY national league baseball history.

    I do think they made a lot of improvements since 2009 and I can finally say it does feel like the Mets home stadium when I walk into it. A packed house with a winning team helps also.

  7. #3367
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    Improvements on the Field and on the Mets’ Balance Sheet
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/sp...nce-sheet.html
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  8. #3368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Improvements on the Field and on the Mets’ Balance Sheet
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/sp...nce-sheet.html
    All of this good fortune and the scum bag owner waited until the 11th hour to do something by signing Cespedes. I know Mongoose will talk about them letting Murphy walk and in this instance I agree with him, but for different reasons.

    Murphy should have been retained as a super utility player, and insurance if Herrera doesn't work out in the future. He could play 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. Not well but he has the appropriate gloves in his locker to do so.

    The Mets are off to a very good start and they have a better roster than they did in April of 2015 by good margin. Attendance will only go up as the weather gets better. Lets see Fred The Scumbag Wilpon put his alligator arms in his pocket and acquire some talent/extend current talent so the Mets can be a contender for more than 5 f'n minutes.

    I hate that mother XXXX'er.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 04-30-2016 at 11:48 AM.

  9. #3369
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    Mets’ ballpark revenue jumps in ’15
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-15-1.11850586
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  10. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Metsí ballpark revenue jumps in í15
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-15-1.11850586
    I crunched the numbers earlier in this thread. Between Wilpon percentage of SNY net and other sources Fred had over $500M of revenue last year. Operating expenses other than MLB payroll are a bit over $100M and payroll is now around $140M. Fred's operating margin is almost surely over 50% which is remarkable for a business of that scale.

    Now that David Wright is predictably going to miss a lot of time we find nobody in the organization to take his place. Even with all the extra revenue the organization was too cheap to backstop Wright.

    I guess it's taboo to talk about the penny pinching tap dance involved in pushing Murphy out. .395/.426/.621 and he would have slotted easily to 3B. Instead he carried the Nats to another win today. Oh well.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  11. #3371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    I crunched the numbers earlier in this thread. Between Wilpon percentage of SNY net and other sources Fred had over $500M of revenue last year. Operating expenses other than MLB payroll are a bit over $100M and payroll is now around $140M. Fred's operating margin is almost surely over 50% which is remarkable for a business of that scale.

    Now that David Wright is predictably going to miss a lot of time we find nobody in the organization to take his place. Even with all the extra revenue the organization was too cheap to backstop Wright.

    I guess it's taboo to talk about the penny pinching tap dance involved in pushing Murphy out. .395/.426/.621 and he would have slotted easily to 3B. Instead he carried the Nats to another win today. Oh well.
    If Murphy wanted to remain a Met he would have for twice the money in 2016. He opted to leave for half the price, and not bet on himself. He would have one great payday coming up this offseason.

    Instead he opted to go to a division rival, and make less money for 2016-2018. It would have been nice to have him hitting this way in the Met lineup, but like you said ...oh well.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-31-2016 at 09:27 AM.

  12. #3372
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    duplicate post
    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-31-2016 at 08:47 AM.

  13. #3373
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    Some years ago, I said Fred was planning on timing the "rebuild" to match projected opening of his mall surrounding the stadium. I said he would spend on a winner to attract renters, but if the project didn't happen I didn't see him spending going forward.

    His TV contract doesn't give him a higher affiliate license fee for winning. A team that's cheap and has a shot at the playoffs will probably draw close to an actual winner. From Fred's perspective there was no incentive to pay extra for exceptional talent. If the Mets make as much as the Yankees and Fred spends $100M less than the Yankees, he gets to pocket that money.

    So I see no end in sight for the low, self-imposed payroll caps. Every now and then a move like Cespedes will be made to appease the fans, but what we see is what we get. Madoff was a blessing for Fred. It gave him an excuse for implementing austerity budgets. The fans are now conditioned to expect this.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  14. #3374
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Some years ago, I said Fred was planning on timing the "rebuild" to match projected opening of his mall surrounding the stadium. I said he would spend on a winner to attract renters, but if the project didn't happen I didn't see him spending going forward.

    His TV contract doesn't give him a higher affiliate license fee for winning. A team that's cheap and has a shot at the playoffs will probably draw close to an actual winner. From Fred's perspective there was no incentive to pay extra for exceptional talent. If the Mets make as much as the Yankees and Fred spends $100M less than the Yankees, he gets to pocket that money.

    So I see no end in sight for the low, self-imposed payroll caps. Every now and then a move like Cespedes will be made to appease the fans, but what we see is what we get. Madoff was a blessing for Fred. It gave him an excuse for implementing austerity budgets. The fans are now conditioned to expect this.
    Mongoose if these were just some random thoughts you were having.......have a cup of egg nog.

    Look we all know (most of us anyway) that Fred will make the "shut up fans" move. For the most part mission accomplished because it shuts the fans up.

    What separates the top players from the rest are the "all in" "going for it" "over the top" moves that you see happening.

    The argument from the Fred defenders is always "These moves don't guarantee anything". Of course they don't, but it puts you in a better position to win. There are no guarantees for spending money or making trades.

    There is one thing I can guarantee -- the Met offense as currently constructed shown in a Starbucks will put everyone to sleep. Not enough caffeine.

  15. #3375
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    Good Call Pauly..Personally, I don't see how any Mets fan could be a Cap'n Jeff supporter. Yes, Papa Fred always makes a crowd pleaser mover every off season..It keeps the faithful coming back or so I've been told. Personally, I'd prefer more hot dogs, beer, coke, cracker jack, popcorn and less sushi and wine.
    North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla

  16. #3376
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    Quote Originally Posted by brooklynboy View Post
    Good Call Pauly..Personally, I don't see how any Mets fan could be a Cap'n Jeff supporter. Yes, Papa Fred always makes a crowd pleaser mover every off season..It keeps the faithful coming back or so I've been told. Personally, I'd prefer more hot dogs, beer, coke, cracker jack, popcorn and less sushi and wine.
    Maybe Fred was visited by the 3 ghosts of Christmas last night, and they terrified him into waking up a new man.

    Too bad all the best bullpen arms are already signed.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  17. #3377
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    More likely he was visited by the ghost of Madorf...
    North of the Big Apple but missing Central Fla

  18. #3378
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    Between the Mets playing "meaningful games in September" and SNY, Fred and family probably net more money than any owners in baseball.

    But in a sport with no salary cap he's apparently instituted a unilateral hard cap in the bottom half of league payroll.

    As a consequence, despite 5 starters coming back from surgery, despite their closer looking at a long suspension, despite losing their top left hander and Salas, they haven't made a Major League bullpen acquisition.

    So a weakness that kept the team out of the post-season has gotten vastly weaker.

    That's the story of the off-season so far. It's unbelievable. As usual, the press has maintained a hands-off approach.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  19. #3379
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Between the Mets playing "meaningful games in September" and SNY, Fred and family probably net more money than any owners in baseball.

    But in a sport with no salary cap he's apparently instituted a unilateral hard cap in the bottom half of league payroll.

    As a consequence, despite 5 starters coming back from surgery, despite their closer looking at a long suspension, despite losing their top left hander and Salas, they haven't made a Major League bullpen acquisition.

    So a weakness that kept the team out of the post-season has gotten vastly weaker.

    That's the story of the off-season so far. It's unbelievable. As usual, the press has maintained a hands-off approach.
    The Mets are 13th in payroll. Get your facts straight:

    http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/


  20. #3380
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Between the Mets playing "meaningful games in September" and SNY, Fred and family probably net more money than any owners in baseball.

    But in a sport with no salary cap he's apparently instituted a unilateral hard cap in the bottom half of league payroll.

    As a consequence, despite 5 starters coming back from surgery, despite their closer looking at a long suspension, despite losing their top left hander and Salas, they haven't made a Major League bullpen acquisition.

    So a weakness that kept the team out of the post-season has gotten vastly weaker.

    That's the story of the off-season so far. It's unbelievable. As usual, the press has maintained a hands-off approach.

    Although I will be accused of defending Fred I write this because I have an extreme disdain for people who fudge the facts.

    1. The current Mets payroll is 13th in MLB. There are 30 teams. I believe that is in the top 1/2 of payroll
    2. Saying they "probably" have the highest net of any team in baseball is a statement that can not proven.
    3. Although I get your point about the starters, 4 are coming back from surgery and even if 2 do not come back fully this year they will still have a very good pitching staff.
    4. Their top left handed relief pitcher should be able to be replaced fairly easily and he still may be back with the team. It is way too early to forecast who will be in relief for the 2017 team.

    I know every once in a while you get the bug to stir the pot but in my humble opinion it is way too early for the gloom and doom attitude that your post conveys.

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