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Thread: The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

  1. #3351
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    See there you go. To follow your suit:

    The Knicks have a rabid fan base so including them is moot.

    New York is also a rabid baseball city but the Mets have had bad attendance didn't they? Which is why it all backfired on Fred.


    Wasn't 1993 the inaugural year for the Rockies after Colorado basically begged for an MLB team for years? They proved to be a good sports city unlike some cities in Florida. Which by the way even the Marlins drew over 3 million in 1993.
    IMO it's all about supply and/or demand, win or lose (see Knicks and Cubs).

    NYC has had very low attendance for the Mets, Yankees, Giants and Dodgers. Maybe in that sport it's about winning in NYC.
    Other teams, other sports in NY or around the country not so much.

    Fenway park would have sold out every game in 2005 if they had 55,000 seats. For the same high prices.

    IMO that Professor using Fenway and its "reduced capacity" implies it was done deliberately. Instead the team played in an 11,000 seat stadium and in 1912 27,000 seat Fenway park opened. It's capacity has increased over the years. Just like Wrigley field. The principle should not be named after Fenway.
    If you want to say new Yankee stadium and Citi was deliberate, that's a different scenario.
    Last edited by LI METS FAN; 03-30-2016 at 07:04 AM.

  2. #3352
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    Why did the Mets sell such an important piece of their history to a private collector? This Jersey should be on display somewhere at Citi Field, did they really need the few thousand bucks that they probably made off it?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2581448
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  3. #3353
    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Why did the Mets sell such an important piece of their history to a private collector? This Jersey should be on display somewhere at Citi Field, did they really need the few thousand bucks that they probably made off it?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2581448
    Wasn't that part of the court order regarding Charlie Samuels theft?

  4. #3354
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    IMO it's all about supply and/or demand, win or lose (see Knicks and Cubs).

    NYC has had very low attendance for the Mets, Yankees, Giants and Dodgers. Maybe in that sport it's about winning in NYC.
    Other teams, other sports in NY or around the country not so much.

    Fenway park would have sold out every game in 2005 if they had 55,000 seats. For the same high prices.

    IMO that Professor using Fenway and its "reduced capacity" implies it was done deliberately. Instead the team played in an 11,000 seat stadium and in 1912 27,000 seat Fenway park opened. It's capacity has increased over the years. Just like Wrigley field. The principle should not be named after Fenway.
    If you want to say new Yankee stadium and Citi was deliberate, that's a different scenario.
    Saying that Fenway would have sold out every game in 2005 is probably true - because the team just came off of a WS win. You keep bringing up extenuating circumstances.

    In normal terms - If you have a hot product or a great product with a low inventory you can drive the price up because of supply and demand. This is just too simple.

    At one point 15 years ago weren't "Tickle Me Elmo's" selling for $1200 each because every kid wanted one for Christmas and there were none to be found. So the idiot parents went out and spent hundreds on a toy that was costing $20 in February - two months later.

    The professor is using Fenway because that is the perfect example - not because it was done on purpose in 1912. Its the perfect example because its a hot ticket most years with a limited inventory.....so then what happens? The prices can go up.

    Why so offended by the use of Fenway as the example? Its the perfect example, and yes Citi and NYS followed suit for sure.

  5. #3355
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    Quote Originally Posted by GiambiJuice View Post
    Why did the Mets sell such an important piece of their history to a private collector? This Jersey should be on display somewhere at Citi Field, did they really need the few thousand bucks that they probably made off it?

    http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...icle-1.2581448
    That jersey should have a prominent display in Citi Field. This is typical Mets though -- not a feel for anything of significance when it comes to their own history.

    It is one of if not THEE most memorable Met homer in history, and maybe the most memorable moment in their history and its going to a high bidder.

    If the Wilpons purchased it they would have to release another player. Tejeda is gone - so Plawecki may be cut if the Mets buy the jersey.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 03-30-2016 at 08:00 AM.

  6. #3356
    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Saying that Fenway would have sold out every game in 2005 is probably true - because the team just came off of a WS win. You keep bringing up extenuating circumstances.

    In normal terms - If you have a hot product or a great product with a low inventory you can drive the price up because of supply and demand. This is just too simple.

    At one point 15 years ago weren't "Tickle Me Elmo's" selling for $1200 each because every kid wanted one for Christmas and there were none to be found. So the idiot parents went out and spent hundreds on a toy that was costing $20 in February - two months later.

    The professor is using Fenway because that is the perfect example - not because it was done on purpose in 1912. Its the perfect example because its a hot ticket most years with a limited inventory.....so then what happens? The prices can go up.

    Why so offended by the use of Fenway as the example? Its the perfect example, and yes Citi and NYS followed suit for sure.
    We'll agree on the principle I guess but the "name" not so much. Cleveland principle is accurate, going from 75k stadium to 40k and having 4+ straight sellout years. But then no one would have read his article. Need a northeastern team to get attention.

  7. #3357
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    We'll agree on the principle I guess but the "name" not so much. Cleveland principle is accurate, going from 75k stadium to 40k and having 4+ straight sellout years. But then no one would have read his article. Need a northeastern team to get attention.
    That we can agree on - FENWAY - will make people listen more than saying Progressive Field.

    After all this is the media we are talking about.

  8. #3358
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    Just watched the first part of the Ken Burns Jackie Robinson documentary.... Phenomenal. Jackie's widow takes a thinly veiled dig at the Wilpons when she told the story about the Jackie & Reese statue in Coney Island. That apparently was a myth and there is not concrete evidence of it ever happening; Rachel knew it and implored them to use a different image for the statue (from an actual picture, not folklore) and you can see the consternation in her face when she said that they didn't listen to her.
    Definition of a homerun: When the baseball gets hit to a DISTANCE that the fielder cannot get it into homeplate before the batter rounds the bases.

    Associated Press -- Citi Field's smaller dimensions helped opponents more than the New York Mets.
    Thanks Sandy Alderson.

  9. #3359
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    Quote Originally Posted by trepye View Post
    Just watched the first part of the Ken Burns Jackie Robinson documentary.... Phenomenal. Jackie's widow takes a thinly veiled dig at the Wilpons when she told the story about the Jackie & Reese statue in Coney Island. That apparently was a myth and there is not concrete evidence of it ever happening; Rachel knew it and implored them to use a different image for the statue (from an actual picture, not folklore) and you can see the consternation in her face when she said that they didn't listen to her.
    Fred has used Jackie Robinson as a moral fig leaf for years. His very public displays of admiration are an easy way to fraudulently suggest he's a humanitarian, as opposed to a man committed to pillaging everything he sees.


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  10. #3360
    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Fred has used Jackie Robinson as a moral fig leaf for years. His very public displays of admiration are an easy way to fraudulently suggest he's a humanitarian, as opposed to a man committed to pillaging everything he sees.
    He was also a rabid Brooklyn Dodgers fan. Did you make it to Citi Field the year it opened? It was a shrine to the Dodgers. There wasn't a thing in the ballpark to celebrate the Mets's history or legacy. My contempt for the Wilpons predates the ponzi scheme money strapped version they are today.

    I'm not a Yankees fan, and find it hilarious how many numbers they have retired (seriously, Roger Maris and Reggie Jackson did not play on that team long enough) but they at least got it right with a memorial park and everywhere in the ballpark you are reminded of their legacy. Not a team that played in Brooklyn and is now playing in Los Angeles.

  11. #3361
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  12. #3362
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    He was also a rabid Brooklyn Dodgers fan. Did you make it to Citi Field the year it opened? It was a shrine to the Dodgers. There wasn't a thing in the ballpark to celebrate the Mets's history or legacy. My contempt for the Wilpons predates the ponzi scheme money strapped version they are today.

    I'm not a Yankees fan, and find it hilarious how many numbers they have retired (seriously, Roger Maris and Reggie Jackson did not play on that team long enough) but they at least got it right with a memorial park and everywhere in the ballpark you are reminded of their legacy. Not a team that played in Brooklyn and is now playing in Los Angeles.
    I always felt the stuff about Fred being a big Dodgers fan rang fraudulent.

    I think his handlers felt it good PR to pretend he had passions besides greed.

    Here was Fred's original plan for a new stadium:

    NEIGHBORHOOD REPORT: WILLETS POINT Enough Yankees Already. The Mets Have Their Own Plans

    By NORIMITSU ONISHI
    Published: July 24, 1994

    Even as the Yankees' future in the South Bronx becomes more and more uncertain, the Mets are making sweeping plans that could profoundly alter the face of Queens.

    Fred Wilpon, a co-owner of the team, said that if all goes according to his plans, the Mets will be playing in a new domed stadium just east of Shea within four years. The old Shea Stadium will be torn down and replaced by a giant parking garage. Around it, Mr. Wilpon said, there will be an entertainment center with a permanent, high-tech "world's fair."

    The plans were announced last year, but within the next two weeks, the Mets are to give the city a report detailing projected costs and financing of the stadium, and the city will begin the process of relocating small businesses in the area of growth.

    Rudy Washington, the commissioner of the city's Department of Business Services, said that after reviewing the Mets' report, he and community leaders would discuss the project's impact on Queens. He planned to speak with business owners in the Willets Point Industrial Park, just east of Shea Stadium. Those businesses will have to be moved to make way for the stadium and entertainment center, he said.

    Although Mr. Wilpon declined to reveal projected costs of the stadium, he said revenues from its operation would cover construction costs. "We will not ask for any general funds from the city or the state," he said.

    Shea Stadium, which opened in 1964, is owned by the city. The Mets' lease expires at the end of 2,004.

    The Mets hope a new stadium and entertainment center will return attendance figures to the levels of the mid to late 1980's, when about 3.5 million fans went each season. Last season, attendance was 1.8 million.

    Proponents of a domed stadium say the Shea, while adequate, lacks the distinctiveness that makes the stadiums in Toronto and Baltimore inspire crowds, no matter how well the hometown teams perform. They say the 30-year-old structure is rundown and "generic" and could not be part of an entertainment mecca attracting tourists who would otherwise not visit Queens.

    Mr. Wilpon said the Toronto Blue Jays have averaged four million for the last three years, partly because of the team's success, but also partly because of its new Skydome. To reach those attendance figures, he said, baseball must be supplemented with other kinds of entertainment.

    The project is still more drawing paper than contract, but Mr. Wilpon's dreams are detailed. He hopes companies will set up pavilions to showcase a particular theme, like the Wild West, and ticket buyers would be transported there through virtual-reality and other interactive technologies.



    Besides being a delusional misuse of other peoples' money all this had in common with what eventually happened was it required eliminating Doubleday and separating his neighbors from their land.

    No mention of Ebbets Field, though. Fred didn't become passionate about recreating Ebbets Field until he discovered the dome would cost more than he could suck from the public tit. At that point Fred became a misty-eyed sentimentalist.

    In light of the subsequent greed fueled destruction of the team, the following article needs to be read to be believed:



    http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?...=.jsp&c_id=mlb

    Mets unveil model of new stadium
    Facility will pay homage to New York and club's history


    By Bryan Hoch / Special to MLB.com

    NEW YORK -- Speaking about the Mets' 21st century field of dreams on Thursday, Fred Wilpon struggled to maintain his composure, his voice cracking with emotion.

    As the Mets unveiled their digital visions for tomorrow, releasing images of a new ballpark, Wilpon was thinking not of the computer-generated plans for the striking open-air, baseball-only facility or its modern-day amenities.

    Wilpon's thoughts had drifted back to his own personal field of dreams, Brooklyn's Ebbets Field.

    Suddenly, Wilpon could see himself at eight years old, holding his father's hand and walking through the elaborate rotunda, embracing an afternoon in the sun to watch his beloved team.

    "It chokes me up every time I look at the plans," Wilpon admitted.

    Suddenly, a new slate of future memories does not appear quite so far away.

    Highlighted by the exhibition of a stunning 360-degree, three-dimensional computer model, the Mets' next home was displayed in a ceremony at Shea Stadium's Diamond Club on Thursday.

    "We heard Fred talking about the stadium, not in terms of dollars and cents, but thinking back to when he went to Ebbets Field with his father," New York Governor George Pataki said. "You could sense the emotion in his voice. This is not just a business venture; this is a passion of bringing people together."...




    It's a shame this board doesn't have a vomiting emoticon.

    This might be the most nauseating, dishonest piece I've ever read in a sports section.

    I suspect the whole Wilpon/Dodgers thing was propaganda to give the disgusting real estate boondoggle some sort of context regular fans could relate to. Problem was Fred wasn't a Mets fan and was so out of touch with the fan base that he blew it anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Is being used as a moral fig leaf really an honor?


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  13. #3363
    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Lot of bad things about the Wilpons.

    Honoring Jackie Robinson, the most consequential National Leaguer ever to play ball in New York, is not one of them.
    Honoring him in a way that is insulting to his wife and family because it's not an accurate depiction is a good thing?

  14. #3364
    Yeah, all things considered, I think the Jackie presence at Citi Field is a good thing. It inspired my son.
    Cleon Jones catches a deep fly ball in F. Scott Fitzgerald's Valley of the Ashes, and a second-grader smiles in front of the black and white television.

  15. #3365
    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    Honoring him in a way that is insulting to his wife and family because it's not an accurate depiction is a good thing?
    What am I missing here? Rachel Robinson herself dedicated the rotunda. I was under the impression she was happy with his values depicted there.

  16. #3366
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strawman View Post
    Yeah, all things considered, I think the Jackie presence at Citi Field is a good thing. It inspired my son.
    I think the Jackie Robinson presence is good also, I am glad it inspired your son. I do not think they honored the the Giants enough or for that matter their own history. They really didn't honor NY national league baseball, they honored the Brooklyn Dodgers. Willie Mays and Tom Seaver should have had similar sections. The Rotunda is a beautiful entrance for a sports stadium. It could have been divided in a more equitable fashion if the intent was to honor NY national league baseball history.

    I do think they made a lot of improvements since 2009 and I can finally say it does feel like the Mets home stadium when I walk into it. A packed house with a winning team helps also.

  17. #3367
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    Improvements on the Field and on the Mets’ Balance Sheet
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/sp...nce-sheet.html
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  18. #3368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Improvements on the Field and on the Mets’ Balance Sheet
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/30/sp...nce-sheet.html
    All of this good fortune and the scum bag owner waited until the 11th hour to do something by signing Cespedes. I know Mongoose will talk about them letting Murphy walk and in this instance I agree with him, but for different reasons.

    Murphy should have been retained as a super utility player, and insurance if Herrera doesn't work out in the future. He could play 3rd, 2nd, and 1st. Not well but he has the appropriate gloves in his locker to do so.

    The Mets are off to a very good start and they have a better roster than they did in April of 2015 by good margin. Attendance will only go up as the weather gets better. Lets see Fred The Scumbag Wilpon put his alligator arms in his pocket and acquire some talent/extend current talent so the Mets can be a contender for more than 5 f'n minutes.

    I hate that mother XXXX'er.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 04-30-2016 at 10:48 AM.

  19. #3369
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    Mets’ ballpark revenue jumps in ’15
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-15-1.11850586
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  20. #3370
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    Metsí ballpark revenue jumps in í15
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseba...-15-1.11850586
    I crunched the numbers earlier in this thread. Between Wilpon percentage of SNY net and other sources Fred had over $500M of revenue last year. Operating expenses other than MLB payroll are a bit over $100M and payroll is now around $140M. Fred's operating margin is almost surely over 50% which is remarkable for a business of that scale.

    Now that David Wright is predictably going to miss a lot of time we find nobody in the organization to take his place. Even with all the extra revenue the organization was too cheap to backstop Wright.

    I guess it's taboo to talk about the penny pinching tap dance involved in pushing Murphy out. .395/.426/.621 and he would have slotted easily to 3B. Instead he carried the Nats to another win today. Oh well.


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  21. #3371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    I crunched the numbers earlier in this thread. Between Wilpon percentage of SNY net and other sources Fred had over $500M of revenue last year. Operating expenses other than MLB payroll are a bit over $100M and payroll is now around $140M. Fred's operating margin is almost surely over 50% which is remarkable for a business of that scale.

    Now that David Wright is predictably going to miss a lot of time we find nobody in the organization to take his place. Even with all the extra revenue the organization was too cheap to backstop Wright.

    I guess it's taboo to talk about the penny pinching tap dance involved in pushing Murphy out. .395/.426/.621 and he would have slotted easily to 3B. Instead he carried the Nats to another win today. Oh well.
    If Murphy wanted to remain a Met he would have for twice the money in 2016. He opted to leave for half the price, and not bet on himself. He would have one great payday coming up this offseason.

    Instead he opted to go to a division rival, and make less money for 2016-2018. It would have been nice to have him hitting this way in the Met lineup, but like you said ...oh well.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-31-2016 at 08:27 AM.

  22. #3372
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    duplicate post
    Last edited by Paulypal; 05-31-2016 at 07:47 AM.

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