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Thread: The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

  1. #2851
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Blind trust.

    /end
    Blind faith, on your part? If you are not related to them, or if you don't work for them, I don't get the Wilpon worship? All kidding aside. Why do you love Fred?

    Why don't I like them ? Well, to start with it's been 28 years between WS championships. And one Pennant in 28 years.....and that WS ended up with a classic NY Yankees beat down of the Mets.

    Previous record for National League in NYC WS drought was the Giants winning in 1933 and then in 1954. 21 years. But at least they won pennants in '36,'37 and '51.(of course lost all of these to NYY by 4-2, 4-1, 4-2 margins)

    28 years.....even M Donald Grant couldn't achieve that. And that was when 2 and then 4 teams made the post season. Now . ten teams make the post season and still they can't even do that.

    There are other reasons to dislike Fred and Jeff, but as a fan...this could be their 6th straight losing season, 8th since they made the post season, 14th since their last pennant, and 28th since the 1986 championship. Nothing like success........


  2. #2852
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    More evidence Fred and Saul knew their 14% annual return from Madoff wasn't going to change: the agreement to give deferred payments on the $5.9 million they owed Bonilla with an 8% annual interest rate.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...k-day#comments


    Morning Briefing: Bobby Bonilla check day
    July, 1, 2014
    Jul 1
    1:00
    AM ET
    By Adam Rubin | ESPNNewYork.com

    FIRST PITCH: It’s payday for Bobby Bonilla.

    Back near the end of Bonilla’s playing days, the Mets agreed to pay him $1,193,248.20 annually on July 1 for 25 years, beginning in 2011.

    Bonilla was owed $5.9 million when the Mets agreed to that buyout.

    The agreement called for deferred payments at an 8 percent annual interest rate. At the time, Mets ownership did not mind that interest rate because their investments with Bernie Madoff were returning comfortably more than that figure.

    Meanwhile, believe it or not, the Mets annually make a second payment to Bonilla, too.

    CBSSports.com reported last year that Bonilla receives a separate payment for 25 years, which is the shared responsibility of the Mets and Baltimore Orioles and runs through 2028. The Mets reportedly are required to pay slightly more than half of the annual $500,000 sum, which stems from Bonilla’s original tour of duty with the Mets...


    But don't worry... The Coupons will regain the lost payroll flexibility by trading Daniel Murphy for Jonathan Villar, or some other chunk of excrement.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  3. #2853
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    More evidence Fred and Saul knew their 14% annual return from Madoff wasn't going to change: the agreement to give deferred payments on the $5.9 million they owed Bonilla with an 8% annual interest rate.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/met...k-day#comments
    First of all, it wasn't 14% every year. Second, other funds out-performed Madoff over ten-year periods - pick a decade. What Madoff "promised" investors was stable returns because he used a strategy that minimized risk--something about holding options on Fortune 500 companies. That's what set Madoff apart. There were years where other funds earned 30% but Madoff investors earned half of that or less. On the flip side when the same competitive fund earned 5%, Madoff investors got the ~same returns as they did before.

    You act like this is something new. The minute the Mets made the arrangement with Bonilla I understood the strategy. Ever hear of a compound interest calculator? When the Mets signed Santana, do you remember what Fred said about insuring Santana's contract? He said it was self-insured. Guess what he meant.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 07-12-2014 at 08:44 AM.
    You can teach fundamentals all day long...but you can't teach guys to step up. You can't teach guts and heart...You can run the game and run the bullpen. But it's up to the players." -- Wally Backman, 9/15/10

  4. #2854
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    First of all, it wasn't 14% every year. Second, other funds out-performed Madoff over ten-year periods - pick a decade. What Madoff "promised" investors was stable returns because he used a strategy that minimized risk--something about holding options on Fortune 500 companies. That's what set Madoff apart. There were years where other funds earned 30% but Madoff investors earned half of that or less. On the flip side when the same competitive fund earned 5%, Madoff investors got the ~same returns as they did before.

    You act like this is something new. The minute the Mets made the arrangement with Bonilla I understood the strategy. Ever hear of a compound interest calculator? When the Mets signed Santana, do you remember what Fred said about insuring Santana's contract? He said it was self-insured. Guess what he meant.
    I'm sure Fred and Saul had heard of the compound interest calculator. They recognized the geometric growth of returns Madoff gave was much higher than other funds that could arithmetically tally higher annual percentages. The Wilpon family had been investing with Madoff for some 20 years by the time Saul was confronted with Noreen Harrington's information. I don't believe Madoff's fund ever posted a loss - ever. This just doesn't happen in the real world.

    In the unlikely event Fred and Saul hadn't already known that the forensic accountant they hired was kind enough to tell them.

    Saul's reaction? To withdraw hundreds of millions in cash from the fund while he and Fred fed everyone they knew into it.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  5. #2855
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    I'm sure Fred and Saul had heard of the compound interest calculator. They recognized the geometric growth of returns Madoff gave was much higher than other funds that could arithmetically tally higher annual percentages. The Wilpon family had been investing with Madoff for some 20 years by the time Saul was confronted with Noreen Harrington's information. I don't believe Madoff's fund ever posted a loss - ever. This just doesn't happen in the real world.

    In the unlikely event Fred and Saul hadn't already known that the forensic accountant they hired was kind enough to tell them.

    Saul's reaction? To withdraw hundreds of millions in cash from the fund while he and Fred fed everyone they knew into it.
    After Harrington expressed her concerns, Sterling put more money into Madoff and it's feeder funds. He didn't panic and withdraw hundreds of millions. Money that was withdrawn was already earmarked for diversification -- ironically it went to Merkin, a feeder fund for Madoff.

    Katz was merely being defensive -- even in denial. As I stated elsewhere there is a continuum between blind loyalty and willful blindness. Having been "there" myself, I understand what it is like to have a suspicion, but to minimize it by focusing on everything that contradicts the suspicion. Don't forget, Madoff was a giant on Wall Street, with a long and distinguished career. The SEC looked into his business 6 times and cleared him each time.

    Telling someone what they do not want to know can sometimes make someone angry, and/or they will often become defensive. It's human nature. Look at Jerry Sandusky's wife. She absolutely believes he is innocent even after the conviction. This is blind loyalty. It can happen when so much is at stake.

    The more you try to support your position, the more I realize how little you know.
    You can teach fundamentals all day long...but you can't teach guys to step up. You can't teach guts and heart...You can run the game and run the bullpen. But it's up to the players." -- Wally Backman, 9/15/10

  6. #2856
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    After Harrington expressed her concerns, Sterling put more money into Madoff and it's feeder funds. He didn't panic and withdraw hundreds of millions. Money that was withdrawn was already earmarked for diversification -- ironically it went to Merkin, a feeder fund for Madoff.

    Katz was merely being defensive -- even in denial. As I stated elsewhere there is a continuum between blind loyalty and willful blindness. Having been "there" myself, I understand what it is like to have a suspicion, but to minimize it by focusing on everything that contradicts the suspicion. Don't forget, Madoff was a giant on Wall Street, with a long and distinguished career. The SEC looked into his business 6 times and cleared him each time.

    Telling someone what they do not want to know can sometimes make someone angry, and/or they will often become defensive. It's human nature. Look at Jerry Sandusky's wife. She absolutely believes he is innocent even after the conviction. This is blind loyalty. It can happen when so much is at stake.

    The more you try to support your position, the more I realize how little you know.
    The more posts you write, the more convinced I become that you have some kind of ties to the Mets or the Wilpons. Maybe Jeff vacationed in Savannah, I don't know. Mongoose has always provided links from the NY Times and Wall Street Journal backing his position, but somehow you know more than those folks. I have a suspicion, but for now that's all it is.

    You have a tendency to attack people personally you disagree with, which is against the forum rules. I believe you have been called out on this before by several others, and yet you persist. It does seem that you have an agenda, but that is only a suspicion.

  7. #2857
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    The more posts you write, the more convinced I become that you have some kind of ties to the Mets or the Wilpons. Maybe Jeff vacationed in Savannah, I don't know. Mongoose has always provided links from the NY Times and Wall Street Journal backing his position, but somehow you know more than those folks.
    01. I have no ties to the Mets.
    02. I read the same articles.
    03. I do have an agenda -- aside from being a Mets fan on a Mets forum. Correcting people who recklessly and maliciously post gross and foul-mouthed misrepresentations of truth about the Mets.
    04. If someone routinely attacks others with vitriol, they should not feel entitled to hiding behind protective cover.
    Last edited by Dugmet; 07-16-2014 at 04:12 AM.
    You can teach fundamentals all day long...but you can't teach guys to step up. You can't teach guts and heart...You can run the game and run the bullpen. But it's up to the players." -- Wally Backman, 9/15/10

  8. #2858
    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    01. I have no ties to the Mets.
    02. I read the same articles.
    03. I do have an agenda -- aside from being a Mets fan on a Mets forum. Correcting people who recklessly and maliciously post gross and foul-mouthed misrepresentations of truth about the Mets.
    04. If someone routinely attacks others with vitriol, they should not feel entitled to hiding behind protective cover.
    Agree or disagree with you, your opinion is yours. Don't understand the fascination with thinking fans are members of the Wilpon family.

  9. #2859
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    01. I have no ties to the Mets.
    02. I read the same articles.
    03. I do have an agenda -- aside from being a Mets fan on a Mets forum. Correcting people who recklessly and maliciously post gross and foul-mouthed misrepresentations of truth about the Mets.
    04. If someone routinely attacks others with vitriol, they should not feel entitled to hiding behind protective cover.
    Maybe I am mistaken on these items, and if I am I will certainly apologize.

    01. You were "Reyes of Hope" and when they let Jose go, you changed your user name since you could not be a "reyes" fan anymore if they (Sandy/Jeff) let him walk
    02. Again, I could be wrong, but I thought somewhere along the line you name dropped about having connections with Savannah GA...home of the Mets Class A team
    03. Without searching through your posts to find the quotes, I think you once said something about 'knowing' David Wright
    04. You engage in personal attacks against several long time members here, especially Mongoose. Having opinions are one thing, as are debates. No issues with disagreements at all. However you do seem to take personal shots at people here, which is against the rules. I don't recall anyone launching similar personal tirades against you, as YOU do to Mongoose in particular.

  10. #2860
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    Quote Originally Posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Agree or disagree with you, your opinion is yours. Don't understand the fascination with thinking fans are members of the Wilpon family.
    I don't think that's in violation of the rules.

    Baseball Fever Netiquette:

    Personal attacks of any type against Baseball Fever readers will not be tolerated. In these instances the post will be copied by a moderator and/or administrator, deleted from the site, then sent to the member who made the personal attack via a Private Message (PM) along with a single warning. Members who choose to not listen and continue personal attacks will be banned from the site.
    But this is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    It is "sneaking" because you distort reality, constantly, and attempt to color it to suit your perspective. Whereas, I post nothing that is not consistent with reality...
    And this is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    You distort reality as usual.
    And this is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Dugmet View Post
    Your post was nothing more than a fart. I smelled it. It stunk and it had no substance.
    Do you prefer this level of "debate"?


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

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