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Thread: The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

  1. #3251
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattD1972 View Post
    Not like I need to defend my Mets fandom, but I've been with them, except for a break in the 90s, for as long as I have followed baseball. Yankee troll? I HATE the Yankees.
    MattD, any and all criticism of anything Mets is interpreted as being a Yankees troll. Many times it comes form 'long time' die hards that couldn't tell the difference between Art Shamsky and Art Howe.

  2. #3252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    What is that...the entrance way to the gas chamber?
    Believe it or not, that doorway was named in honor of Mrs Payson. That would be like going to Yankee Stadium and seeing the Mickey Mantle broom closet, or the Lou Gehrig urinal. But Fred/Jeff have a few admirers here.
    Remember there are people on this forum who were not Mets fans when Doubleday rescued the franchise . Some think the Mets began when they (actually Doubleday) signed Piazza. Others think Mets history dates back to David Wright.

  3. #3253
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    Believe it or not, that doorway was named in honor of Mrs Payson. That would be like going to Yankee Stadium and seeing the Mickey Mantle broom closet, or the Lou Gehrig urinal. But Fred/Jeff have a few admirers here.
    Remember there are people on this forum who were not Mets fans when Doubleday rescued the franchise . Some think the Mets began when they (actually Doubleday) signed Piazza. Others think Mets history dates back to David Wright.
    All thats missing from that doorway is the big switch that gets thrown to set "ol sparky" off.


    I guess its all relative depending on your age.
    Which is exactly why we KNOW Wilpon is a piece of crap owner as well as a less than human being.
    Last edited by Paulypal; 08-06-2015 at 08:53 AM.

  4. #3254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    No memorial patch for Nelson Doubleday?
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/06/sp...rom-sight.html
    Considering that Doubledays' more firm financial footing permitted Fred Wilpon to purchase the team you'd think he'd let bygones be bygones and show some appreciation to the fact that because of Mr Doubleday Fred's son, Jeff Wilpon, is not raving about his Danbury Mint Ebbets Field minuature replica and instead actually got to rebuild the actual real-life structure.

    I know Doubleday took a dig at Jeff (and lets be honest he was actually right because he does not have a sterling, no pun, reputation among the ppl who work with him), but to that I say....

    Be the bigger men, Fred W. & Jeff W. forgive, forget and commemorate Nelson Doubleday.
    Last edited by trepye; 08-06-2015 at 09:58 AM.
    Definition of a homerun: When the baseball gets hit to a DISTANCE that the fielder cannot get it into homeplate before the batter rounds the bases.

    Associated Press -- Citi Field's smaller dimensions helped opponents more than the New York Mets.
    Thanks Sandy Alderson.

  5. #3255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    What is that...the entrance way to the gas chamber?
    I was on a tour of Citi Field a few years ago and I took that photo of the Payson entrance on my way out.

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...Field/page1705

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_dunaier/7052720103
    The Mets have the best, smartest fans in baseball.

  6. #3256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue387 View Post
    I was on a tour of Citi Field a few years ago and I took that photo of the Payson entrance on my way out.

    http://www.baseball-fever.com/showth...Field/page1705

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/gary_dunaier/7052720103
    Your pics just reminded me that I actually have a brick outside of Citi Field that my sister bought for me. I actually even saw it once. LOL.

  7. #3257
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    The Mets recently refinanced $700 million in debt. The interest rates are said to be lower. That's good. This allowed them to make some recent additions. That is also good.

    Having $700 million in debt really isn't a very good thing.

    http://nypost.com/2015/08/19/fred-wi...mets-sny-debt/

  8. #3258
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    The Mets recently refinanced $700 million in debt. The interest rates are said to be lower. That's good. This allowed them to make some recent additions. That is also good.

    Having $700 million in debt really isn't a very good thing.

    http://nypost.com/2015/08/19/fred-wi...mets-sny-debt/
    Now how does a baseball team and sports network with big market revenue wind up a billion dollars in debt?

    I don't believe most of the press has ever explicitly explained the Wilpons dumped their debt from other sources onto the Mets/SNY. They usually aid and abet Fred in the fiction those are baseball related losses.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  9. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Now how does a baseball team and sports network with big market revenue wind up a billion dollars in debt?

    I don't believe most of the press has ever explicitly explained the Wilpons dumped their debt from other sources onto the Mets/SNY. They usually aid and abet Fred in the fiction those are baseball related losses.
    Being that I do this for a living - This takes a lot of inter-company transactions to pull this off. I dont doubt for one second that it is what is getting done.

    Assuming that is the case then the fault also needs to be placed at the doorstep of MLB. MLB should audit all of its franchises books yearly to make sure that baseball debt is being incurred by baseball activities alone. Otherwise you have scumbags like Wilpon just burying their franchises with debt, always having an excuse for not spending, and a fan base stuck rooting for a scumbag owned franchise.

    The problem is, as I work directly for someone on the Forbes list, that the richer you are the easier it is to pull this type of crap off. I dont care who does it, but when it affects a big market sports franchise these actions become magnified.

  10. #3260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Being that I do this for a living - This takes a lot of inter-company transactions to pull this off. I dont doubt for one second that it is what is getting done.

    Assuming that is the case then the fault also needs to be placed at the doorstep of MLB. MLB should audit all of its franchises books yearly to make sure that baseball debt is being incurred by baseball activities alone. Otherwise you have scumbags like Wilpon just burying their franchises with debt, always having an excuse for not spending, and a fan base stuck rooting for a scumbag owned franchise.

    The problem is, as I work directly for someone on the Forbes list, that the richer you are the easier it is to pull this type of crap off. I dont care who does it, but when it affects a big market sports franchise these actions become magnified.
    They might have sold the team down the river but at least we get to have some fun. Ever Google Jeff Wilpon?

    https://www.google.com/search?q=jeff...utf-8&oe=utf-8

    My favorite is the bio with images in the sidebar. They make sure to mention his education (Roslyn High School) and his grandfather (Nathan the undertaker).

    And check out the wonderful images of Fred and Saul.

    Attached is a screen shot.

    If you click "people also search for" you get Bernard Madoff and various other people caught up in the Ponzi swindle. Marc Rich too for some reason.
    Attached Images Attached Images


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  11. #3261
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    Mongoose, you're slipping on Uncle Fred's mall. it is slipping away. I was reading the Wall Street Journal the other morning and I saw an article where NYC is now withdrawing its support for the appeal. This is big since Bloomberg was the driving force when he was the mayor.

    So I began looking at some different angles at this.

    Behind the scenes, soccer was trying to get a stadium in Flushing Meadows park. (In truth, I always though this would actually be a great idea, as long as it incorporated the land marked 1964-65 NY State Pavilion somehow into the buildings). Well, the soccer folks are pulling their cross support: if they supported Uncle Fred's mall, he would allegedly support their stadium.

    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/pursui...stadium-39028/

    New York City officials and private developers have been fighting to secure land for redevelopment in the 64-acre Willets Point area for the better part of a decade. As it turns out, a new home for New York City F.C. was quietly a part of those plans.

    But now, the entire initiative seems up in the air.

    According to the New York Times, New York City officials have pulled away from an appeals process started by developers Related and Sterling Equities, fighting a recent court injunction forbidding the construction of a one-million-square-foot mall on Citifield parking property. The ruling, which came from the lower courts this past July, states that the area in question was zoned strictly for entertainment and sporting usage, forbidding the mall’s construction. By doing so, the courts put up a major roadblock in the City’s overall Willets Point investment plans, which has already accounted for a reported $400 million in spending.

    As reported by the Times:

    Under the terms of the current agreement, the developers would first clean up environmental damage at Willets Point and build the mall next to the stadium with 200 stores, a theater and a small hotel, in 2018. The developers had agreed to also build 2,500 apartments, including 875 apartments for low- and moderate-income families, starting in 2025, although they had the option of paying the city $35 million to get out of that obligation.
    Recently, the developer pitched the idea of adding a home for New York City F.C. on the Willets grounds — an interesting development considering Related and Sterling Equities is the real estate company owned by Fred Wilpon and Saul B. Katz who also run the Mets and Citi Field. Zoning already allows for such a move on the proposed mall area, particularly if the option exists to create parking land on the current Iron Triangle zone to supplement the lost land.

    In getting a stadium, NYCFC would reportedly pitch into the “housing fund” in order to make the deal happen. Affordable housing is a lynch pin in the development negotiations.

    With New York City interest apparently waning, the project has taken an uncertain turn — and so have the hopes of NYCFC’s Flushing-based stadium deal.

    “My community urgently needs affordable housing, jobs and transportation enhancements,” urges City Councilwoman Julissa Ferreras-Copeland. “I have been working to this end, to improve Willets Point for the past eight years. We cannot wait any longer. I will work with all the parties to find an equitable solution.”



    Affordable housing ??? Egads, you think Fred and Jeffie want THOSE people near his stadium??? Come to think of it, if the Brooklyn Dodgers had wanted affordable housing surrounding their ball park, they would have stayed in Brooklyn. Or maybe Fred should have built Citi Field on the spot taken by the Barclays Center. After all, that is where O'Malley said he wanted to go all along.


    But the soccer club pulling its support isn't the big news. THIS NY Times story is the big one:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/20/ny...ield.html?_r=0



    The project suffered another setback on Wednesday, as negotiations broke down between the city and the developers that had been selected by the Bloomberg administration to build the project.

    The developers, Related Companies and Sterling Equities, filed an appeal on Wednesday, the deadline for asking the Court of Appeals, the state’s highest court, to overturn the lower court decision.

    But the city did not.

    In effect, Mayor Bill de Blasio, a Democrat, pulled back from one of his predecessor’s signature projects. His administration’s decision to stay out of court undermines the developer’s attempt to overturn the lower court ruling, which concerns a city action.

    Ultimately, the disagreement could spell the end of the project as it is currently conceived, despite the city’s having already spent $400 million buying land and making improvements in the Willets Point district for the development.

    The redevelopment plan has long been criticized by landowners in Willets Point, parks advocates, local residents and community groups as a generous deal for developers.

    In recent weeks, the city tried to improve the terms of the existing development deal, asking that the developers commit to accelerating the construction of affordable housing.

    Under the terms of the current agreement, the developers would first clean up environmental damage at Willets Point and build the mall next to the stadium with 200 stores, a theater and a small hotel, in 2018. The developers had agreed to also build 2,500 apartments, including 875 apartments for low- and moderate-income families, starting in 2025, although they had the option of paying the city $35 million to get out of that obligation.

    The developers said Wednesday that they remained committed to the redevelopment of Willets Point and were confident that their appeal would be successful.

    “We support the administration’s efforts on affordable housing and are committed to significantly accelerating the housing portion of this plan,” Phil Singer, a spokesman for the developers, said. “But those efforts need to be backed by a financially viable model. We look forward to working with the administration over the next few months.”

    Deputy Mayor Alicia Glen, however, said the city needed more promised for its investment of nearly a half-billion dollars than a shopping mall before it would have agreed to an appeal.



    Ain't that something....Fred could pay the city $35 million, out of $400 million already spent by the city, to get out of the obligation for affordable housing. You can't make this stuff up. Affordable housing, next to Fred and Jeff's ball park? It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.......O'Malley must be really proud of his student Fred.

  12. #3262
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    Well, the Wilpons wanted to land the NYC MLS franchise, but the Steinbrenners outbid them. And the Yankees aren't motivated to do business in the Mets back yard, so soccer is not coming to Flushing and apparently neither is another chain store mall

  13. #3263
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    Mongoose, you're slipping on Uncle Fred's mall. it is slipping away. I was reading the Wall Street Journal the other morning and I saw an article where NYC is now withdrawing its support for the appeal. This is big since Bloomberg was the driving force when he was the mayor.

    So I began looking at some different angles at this.

    Behind the scenes, soccer was trying to get a stadium in Flushing Meadows park. (In truth, I always though this would actually be a great idea, as long as it incorporated the land marked 1964-65 NY State Pavilion somehow into the buildings). Well, the soccer folks are pulling their cross support: if they supported Uncle Fred's mall, he would allegedly support their stadium.

    http://www.empireofsoccer.com/pursui...stadium-39028/

    New York City officials and private developers have been fighting to secure land for redevelopment in the 64-acre Willets Point area for the better part of a decade. As it turns out, a new home for New York City F.C. was quietly a part of those plans.

    But now, the entire initiative seems up in the air.

    According to the New York Times, New York City officials have pulled away from an appeals process started by developers Related and Sterling Equities, fighting a recent court injunction forbidding the construction of a one-million-square-foot mall on Citifield parking property. The ruling, which came from the lower courts this past July, states that the area in question was zoned strictly for entertainment and sporting usage, forbidding the mall’s construction. By doing so, the courts put up a major roadblock in the City’s overall Willets Point investment plans, which has already accounted for a reported $400 million in spending.

    As reported by the Times:

    Under the terms of the current agreement, the developers would first clean up environmental damage at Willets Point and build the mall next to the stadium with 200 stores, a theater and a small hotel, in 2018. The developers had agreed to also build 2,500 apartments, including 875 apartments for low- and moderate-income families, starting in 2025, although they had the option of paying the city $35 million to get out of that obligation.
    Recently, the developer pitched the idea of adding a home for New York City F.C. on the Willets grounds — an interesting development considering Related and Sterling Equities is the real estate company owned by Fred Wilpon and Saul B. Katz who also run the Mets and Citi Field. Zoning already allows for such a move on the proposed mall area, particularly if the option exists to create parking land on the current Iron Triangle zone to supplement the lost land.

    In getting a stadium, NYCFC would reportedly pitch into the “housing fund” in order to make the deal happen. Affordable housing is a lynch pin in the development negotiations.

    With New York City interest apparently waning, the project has taken an uncertain turn — and so have the hopes of NYCFC’s Flushing-based stadium deal.

    “My community urgently needs affordable housing, jobs and transportation enhancements,” urges City Councilwoman Julissa Ferreras-Copeland. “I have been working to this end, to improve Willets Point for the past eight years. We cannot wait any longer. I will work with all the parties to find an equitable solution.”



    Affordable housing ??? Egads, you think Fred and Jeffie want THOSE people near his stadium??? Come to think of it, if the Brooklyn Dodgers had wanted affordable housing surrounding their ball park, they would have stayed in Brooklyn. Or maybe Fred should have built Citi Field on the spot taken by the Barclays Center. After all, that is where O'Malley said he wanted to go all along.


    But the soccer club pulling its support isn't the big news. THIS NY Times story is the big one:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/20/ny...ield.html?_r=0



    The project suffered another setback on Wednesday, as negotiations broke down between the city and the developers that had been selected by the Bloomberg administration to build the project.

    The developers, Related Companies and Sterling Equities, filed an appeal on Wednesday, the deadline for asking the Court of Appeals, the state’s highest court, to overturn the lower court decision.

    But the city did not.

    In effect, Mayor Bill de Blasio, a Democrat, pulled back from one of his predecessor’s signature projects. His administration’s decision to stay out of court undermines the developer’s attempt to overturn the lower court ruling, which concerns a city action.

    Ultimately, the disagreement could spell the end of the project as it is currently conceived, despite the city’s having already spent $400 million buying land and making improvements in the Willets Point district for the development.

    The redevelopment plan has long been criticized by landowners in Willets Point, parks advocates, local residents and community groups as a generous deal for developers.

    In recent weeks, the city tried to improve the terms of the existing development deal, asking that the developers commit to accelerating the construction of affordable housing.

    Under the terms of the current agreement, the developers would first clean up environmental damage at Willets Point and build the mall next to the stadium with 200 stores, a theater and a small hotel, in 2018. The developers had agreed to also build 2,500 apartments, including 875 apartments for low- and moderate-income families, starting in 2025, although they had the option of paying the city $35 million to get out of that obligation.

    The developers said Wednesday that they remained committed to the redevelopment of Willets Point and were confident that their appeal would be successful.

    “We support the administration’s efforts on affordable housing and are committed to significantly accelerating the housing portion of this plan,” Phil Singer, a spokesman for the developers, said. “But those efforts need to be backed by a financially viable model. We look forward to working with the administration over the next few months.”

    Deputy Mayor Alicia Glen, however, said the city needed more promised for its investment of nearly a half-billion dollars than a shopping mall before it would have agreed to an appeal.



    Ain't that something....Fred could pay the city $35 million, out of $400 million already spent by the city, to get out of the obligation for affordable housing. You can't make this stuff up. Affordable housing, next to Fred and Jeff's ball park? It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.......O'Malley must be really proud of his student Fred.
    On the other hand Fred's way of remediating the toxins entailed just putting a concrete cap over the part of the dump he was developing - just like they did at Love Canal. No cap over the rest of the area. I was thinking about that when we saw the poison swamp waters rise up and engulf "Citi" Field during the hurricane a couple years ago. Should a fortune in public money be spent just to get Fred to build "affordable housing" on a spot unfit for human habitation?

    If Fred loses his appeal the state legislature will have to approve the alienation of parkland. I wonder what kind of pressure the current Governor is willing to exert on Fred's behalf? Plenty. But are his levers as effective as the former Mayor?


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  14. #3264
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    On the other hand Fred's way of remediating the toxins entailed just putting a concrete cap over the part of the dump he was developing - just like they did at Love Canal. No cap over the rest of the area. I was thinking about that when we saw the poison swamp waters rise up and engulf "Citi" Field during the hurricane a couple years ago. Should a fortune in public money be spent just to get Fred to build "affordable housing" on a spot unfit for human habitation?

    If Fred loses his appeal the state legislature will have to approve the alienation of parkland. I wonder what kind of pressure the current Governor is willing to exert on Fred's behalf? Plenty. But are his levers as effective as the former Mayor?
    If the city does pull out, and the current mayor is no friend of Fred's and (more importantly) seems to have a mutual distaste of the Governor and vice-versa...the Wilpon dream of a Xandu in Flushing is as good as flushed.

    Imagine, Fred willing to pay $35 million in order to eliminate that affordable housing problem . Why would any sane person actually believe Fred would want "low and middle class' housing next to his mall and ballpark? How gauche ! To think plebians sitting up in steerage could actually live near his ball park !

    Maybe Fred should have returned Shea back to the taxpayers and moved the Mets out to the Nassau Coliseum site? The suburban fans would not have to worry about affordable housing residents, they would be in a location away from the LIRR so everyone would have to pay parking, and city buses couldn't go out there since the parkways have low overhead crossings to prevent the unwashed from going out there (Northern State, Southern State, etc). It would have been a win-win for everyone.

    Maybe the city can do what it did to Horace Stoneham and the NY Giants? Build a low income housing project right next to the Polo Grounds in 1951 and then tell Horace in 1953 he needed to get out and move over to Yankee Stadium. Imagine housing projects built on the Iron Triangle, EGADS !


    November 6, 1953
    Mr. Horace C. Stoneham
    President
    National Exhibition Co.
    100 West 42 Street
    New York 36, N.Y.
    Dear Mr. Stoneham:

    The newspapers have carried numerous stories in the past year to the effect that various baseball clubs were considered transferring their franchises to other cities. While I have not read any announcement to that effect about the New York Giants, it seemed quite obvious from the attendance figures that the maintenance of a separate stadium must be a terrific drain on the ball club.
    You are familiar with the housing project which the City built just north of the Polo Grounds. The site, occupied by the Polo Grounds itself and the parking field adjacent thereto, being one of the last large open spaces in Manhattan, would make an excellent site for additional housing.
    I have no direct knowledge about the matter, but it would seem to me that the owners of the New York Yankees would welcome the idea of having another club in a different league use their park as has been done successfully in other places. To an outsider, it would appear that it would certainly save money for both clubs.
    I don't know how many years your lease has to go on the Coogan property or what other stumbling blocks there might be in the way of this proposal. I should like very much to know whether you have considered such a consolidation and whether you consider it feasible and desirable. Is there any possibility of such a consolidation becoming effective by the next baseball season?

    Cordially, Robert Moses, Co-Ordinator.

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