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Thread: The Mets Ownership / Management Thread

  1. #3151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    The only time I have ever heard Alderson mention his military career is when he was asked by the media. Ted Williams spoke about his military career all the time - I guess that speaks volumes about Ted Williams.

    "I served there with the 2nd Battalion, 1st Marines for a period of time, then their Regiment CP, was just there for a few months before they pulled out of Vietnam all the 1st Marines in May 1970."

    Not sure what kind of service that is - combat or not, but this was an answer to a question delivered to Alderson by........you guessed it.. The Media.



    Some other opinions on Alderson by people that actually have Met him:

    “For the general manager of a New York team, Sandy Alderson remains largely a mystery. Steve Kettmann changes that with this compelling inside look at the Ivy League graduate, former Marine and Vietnam veteran who went on to revolutionize baseball. A must-read for Mets fan and anyone who loves the game.”
    —Ken Rosenthal , Fox Sports/MLB Network

    “In Baseball Maverick, Steve Kettmann paints an intimate portrait of one of the shrewdest, most decorated men to ever occupy the GM chair. The level of detail here is phenomenal, and the result is a really fun read.”
    —Jonah Keri, author of The Extra 2% and Up, Up, & Away

    “Steve Kettmann expertly takes you along the fascinating journey of a true Renaissance man. From combat to the roots of modern analytics to rebuilding the New York Mets—I'll let you decide the most difficult of such pursuits—Sandy Alderson is a compelling case study of leadership.”
    —Tom Verducci, Senior Writer, Sports Illustrated

    “Sandy Alderson’s character and credentials are among the most impressive in baseball. He is an original thinker and a true maverick . . . the title says it all. A book about Sandy is long overdue, and Kettmann’s is outstanding.”
    —Dennis Eckersley

    “Sandy Alderson stumbled into baseball, but as Steve Kettmann shows so adroitly, he’s put a best foot forward everywhere he’s marched in the game. If, under his aegis, Alderson’s Mets can finally come back to glory, it will cap the career of a man who has not only led his teams, but led the whole sport.”
    —Frank Deford

    “A fascinating and enlightening book on one of baseball’s mystery men. Kettmann does a brilliant job delivering a behind-the-scenes look at how Alderson built this team to win in 2015.”
    —Bob Nightengale, USA Today baseball columnist

    “Steve Kettmann has given us so much more than a baseball book or biography; he has given us a fascinating look into one of the game’s great minds. Sandy Alderson defies any simple description, but Kettmann has brilliantly painted a portrait that ties together the Marine, the scholar, the general manager, and the maverick streak that binds them together.”
    —T.J. Quinn, ESPN reporter and anchor

    “Steve Kettmann has long taken readers into the unexplored reaches of baseball, the places the game’s poets bypass but where history—the real kind; not the fairy-tale stuff—is made. In Baseball Maverick, he has given us the pre-Moneyball story of a man and new ways of thinking about the game. It’s really, really good.”
    —Bryan Curtis, staff writer, Grantland
    log·roll·ing
    ˈlôɡˌrōliNG,ˈläɡˌrōliNG/
    noun
    North American
    noun: logrolling; noun: log-rolling

    1.
    informal
    the practice of exchanging favors, especially in politics by reciprocal voting for each other's proposed legislation.
    2.
    a sport in which two contestants stand on a floating log and try to knock each other off by spinning it with their feet.



    Kirkus is a notable independent review site within the publishing industry. The other quotes are the usual pre-publication logrolling by people that know the author/subject (non-objective sources) and appear on dust jackets of books that haven't been independently reviewed yet.

    The man hasn't had a winning season yet and the subtitle of the book is: "How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets". Doesn't that strike you as kind of presumptuous?

    As for Alderson's military service, the reason the media asks him about it (and not Kiner, for example) is because it's part of press bios they receive about him. Most writers, especially outside Oakland and San Diego wouldn't have known the difference between Alderson and you without them. The ultimate source of info for the bios is always the subject himself.

    Alderson has chosen to use his brief non-combat service in the military - which most draft age men of his generation can boast of - to form a persona for public consumption. Most draft age men of his generation have not done this. I view it as a method of shifting focus from his background as a slimeball lawyer to something more heroic. Sort of like he shifted "payroll kill" into "payroll flexibility".


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  2. #3152
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    log·roll·ing
    ˈlôɡˌrōliNG,ˈläɡˌrōliNG/
    noun
    North American
    noun: logrolling; noun: log-rolling

    1.
    informal
    the practice of exchanging favors, especially in politics by reciprocal voting for each other's proposed legislation.
    2.
    a sport in which two contestants stand on a floating log and try to knock each other off by spinning it with their feet.



    Kirkus is a notable independent review site within the publishing industry. The other quotes are the usual pre-publication logrolling by people that know the author/subject (non-objective sources) and appear on dust jackets of books that haven't been independently reviewed yet.

    The man hasn't had a winning season yet and the subtitle of the book is: "How Sandy Alderson Revolutionized Baseball and Revived the Mets". Doesn't that strike you as kind of presumptuous?

    As for Alderson's military service, the reason the media asks him about it (and not Kiner, for example) is because it's part of press bios they receive about him. Most writers, especially outside Oakland and San Diego wouldn't have known the difference between Alderson and you without them. The ultimate source of info for the bios is always the subject himself.

    Alderson has chosen to use his brief non-combat service in the military - which most draft age men of his generation can boast of - to form a persona for public consumption. Most draft age men of his generation have not done this. I view it as a method of shifting focus from his background as a slimeball lawyer to something more heroic. Sort of like he shifted "payroll kill" into "payroll flexibility".
    Mongoose it comes down to you make Alderson as implicit at anyone for the Mets condition for the last 6 years. I don't.

    Alderson did "kill" payroll, but again and again it wasn't his call.

    I am not a huge fan of Alderson but I will respond when I think he gets unfairly hammered, and he does in my opinion. Same with Collins.

    As far as they media asking about his military service as opposed to Kiner....is it that big of deal if he has it in his bio...which is his resume so to speak. It is part of his past, part of his resume..no big deal. Having it in his bio doesn't mean he is flaunting or bragging about his military service does it? What if he graduated Harvard and had that in his bio - is he bragging about his education.

    We know the woman that Jeff harassed graduated Wharton - do we need to know that? Does it matter? No, but its part of the persons history.

    I heard Ted Williams talk about WWII as much as anyone -- its part of his past and the person asking the questions may find it interesting for whatever reason. Its not a huge deal to me.

    Slime ball / lawyer ....some may call that redundant...not me necessarily, but some.

  3. #3153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paulypal View Post
    Mongoose it comes down to you make Alderson as implicit at anyone for the Mets condition for the last 6 years. I don't.

    Alderson did "kill" payroll, but again and again it wasn't his call.

    I am not a huge fan of Alderson but I will respond when I think he gets unfairly hammered, and he does in my opinion. Same with Collins.

    As far as they media asking about his military service as opposed to Kiner....is it that big of deal if he has it in his bio...which is his resume so to speak. It is part of his past, part of his resume..no big deal. Having it in his bio doesn't mean he is flaunting or bragging about his military service does it? What if he graduated Harvard and had that in his bio - is he bragging about his education.

    We know the woman that Jeff harassed graduated Wharton - do we need to know that? Does it matter? No, but its part of the persons history.

    I heard Ted Williams talk about WWII as much as anyone -- its part of his past and the person asking the questions may find it interesting for whatever reason. Its not a huge deal to me.

    Slime ball / lawyer ....some may call that redundant...not me necessarily, but some.
    Ted Williams set the Marine gunnery record while training in Jacksonville.

    He was the best hitter, perhaps in history, and took 5 years from his prime to serve. Had he not he might have eclipsed Babe Ruth's home run record.

    He served in a combat role in WWII remained in the reserves and was recalled for the Korean conflict. Here's an anecdote from his service in Korea. You need to read it to understand the significance of his service in his life's experience:

    Captain Theodore Williams Crash Lands

    Flying with the 33rd Marine Air Group, Ted Williams was one of the 200 flyers in a huge air mission aimed at Kyomipo, fifteen miles south of the North Korea capital of Pyongyang. Coming in low over his target, a troop encampment, Ted lost site of the plane in front of him.

    He dropped down to regain visual contact, but went too low. North Korean soldiers in the encampment blasted him with small arms fire. He completed his run over the target and tried to pull up. Every warning light in the cockpit was lit and the plane was vibrating. The stick started to shake and he knew he’d sprung a leak in the hydraulic system.

    The landing gear came down and the plane was hard to control. Ted got the gear up and started climbing. He knew he was in trouble and got on the radio, but the radio went dead. Another pilot pulled close and tried to signal Ted to bail out, but he didn’t know his plane was on fire.

    He increased altitude and turned the jet toward the nearest American base. Nearly all his instruments were out. The airspeed indicator read zero. The wing flaps were frozen and Ted was unable to lower the landing gear. Every message given by the plane told him to eject.

    He continued to climb, still not knowing the plane was on fire, but took the precaution of climbing to higher elevation anyway. A companion aircraft, piloted by Lieutenant Larry Hawkins, led Ted back to the field and radioed ahead that he was in trouble.

    Ted again considered bailing out but resisted the idea. He was afraid if he ejected his kneecaps would crash against the cockpit.

    With the field in site, Ted turned to land when an explosion rocked the craft. A wheel door had blown off. Smoke was pouring from the brake ports. Down below, the residents of a small Korean village on the outskirts of the field scattered. His plane was a mass of fire and smoke.

    Unable to check his air speed and almost powerless to do anything about it, Ted approached the ground at 225 miles per hour, almost twice the recommended speed. He dropped the emergency wheel latch and only one wheel dropped into position. He hit the strip level, but with no way to slow the plane. Soon the plane settled on its belly, sparks, fire, and smoke trailing after it, as Ted held on, hoping it would stop.

    The F-9 screamed down the field out of control for more than a mile, shedding strips of metal and on the verge on exploding. Twice the plane nearly barreled into fire trucks waiting for the inevitable blowup. Finally, at the very edge of the field, the plane groaned to a stop.

    Ted popped the canopy. With the exception of the cockpit, the entire plane was aflame. He dove headfirst to the tarmac, where he was grabbed by two Marine flight crewmen and hustled away. Angry, both at himself and the close call, Ted took off his helmet and threw it on the ground. When he returned to look at the plane, it was a blackened hulk, completely destroyed. He avoided death by the narrowest margin.


    Williams' military service was a key element in his life narrative.

    Alderson, on the other hand, joined ROTC to avoid the draft, served a couple years in a non-combat role, yet allows himself to be presented as a career officer, a cinema caricature almost, who somehow decided to leave the honor of the Corps to "Revolutionize Baseball and Revive The Mets".

    Everybody knows the Wilpons are the King Vampire Tapeworms, but Alderson is their loyal daimyo.

    Kiner downplayed his service because he was a humble man. Alderson inflates his service because he's not. This is representative of the dishonesty and dishonor that seem key elements in Alderson's makeup.


    "The Fightin' Met With Two Heads" - Mike Tyson/Ray Knight!

  4. #3154
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Ted Williams set the Marine gunnery record while training in Jacksonville.

    He was the best hitter, perhaps in history, and took 5 years from his prime to serve. Had he not he might have eclipsed Babe Ruth's home run record.

    He served in a combat role in WWII remained in the reserves and was recalled for the Korean conflict. Here's an anecdote from his service in Korea. You need to read it to understand the significance of his service in his life's experience:

    Captain Theodore Williams Crash Lands

    Flying with the 33rd Marine Air Group, Ted Williams was one of the 200 flyers in a huge air mission aimed at Kyomipo, fifteen miles south of the North Korea capital of Pyongyang. Coming in low over his target, a troop encampment, Ted lost site of the plane in front of him.

    He dropped down to regain visual contact, but went too low. North Korean soldiers in the encampment blasted him with small arms fire. He completed his run over the target and tried to pull up. Every warning light in the cockpit was lit and the plane was vibrating. The stick started to shake and he knew he’d sprung a leak in the hydraulic system.

    The landing gear came down and the plane was hard to control. Ted got the gear up and started climbing. He knew he was in trouble and got on the radio, but the radio went dead. Another pilot pulled close and tried to signal Ted to bail out, but he didn’t know his plane was on fire.

    He increased altitude and turned the jet toward the nearest American base. Nearly all his instruments were out. The airspeed indicator read zero. The wing flaps were frozen and Ted was unable to lower the landing gear. Every message given by the plane told him to eject.

    He continued to climb, still not knowing the plane was on fire, but took the precaution of climbing to higher elevation anyway. A companion aircraft, piloted by Lieutenant Larry Hawkins, led Ted back to the field and radioed ahead that he was in trouble.

    Ted again considered bailing out but resisted the idea. He was afraid if he ejected his kneecaps would crash against the cockpit.

    With the field in site, Ted turned to land when an explosion rocked the craft. A wheel door had blown off. Smoke was pouring from the brake ports. Down below, the residents of a small Korean village on the outskirts of the field scattered. His plane was a mass of fire and smoke.

    Unable to check his air speed and almost powerless to do anything about it, Ted approached the ground at 225 miles per hour, almost twice the recommended speed. He dropped the emergency wheel latch and only one wheel dropped into position. He hit the strip level, but with no way to slow the plane. Soon the plane settled on its belly, sparks, fire, and smoke trailing after it, as Ted held on, hoping it would stop.

    The F-9 screamed down the field out of control for more than a mile, shedding strips of metal and on the verge on exploding. Twice the plane nearly barreled into fire trucks waiting for the inevitable blowup. Finally, at the very edge of the field, the plane groaned to a stop.

    Ted popped the canopy. With the exception of the cockpit, the entire plane was aflame. He dove headfirst to the tarmac, where he was grabbed by two Marine flight crewmen and hustled away. Angry, both at himself and the close call, Ted took off his helmet and threw it on the ground. When he returned to look at the plane, it was a blackened hulk, completely destroyed. He avoided death by the narrowest margin.


    Williams' military service was a key element in his life narrative.

    Alderson, on the other hand, joined ROTC to avoid the draft, served a couple years in a non-combat role, yet allows himself to be presented as a career officer, a cinema caricature almost, who somehow decided to leave the honor of the Corps to "Revolutionize Baseball and Revive The Mets".

    Everybody knows the Wilpons are the King Vampire Tapeworms, but Alderson is their loyal daimyo.

    Kiner downplayed his service because he was a humble man. Alderson inflates his service because he's not. This is representative of the dishonesty and dishonor that seem key elements in Alderson's makeup.
    Again your holding something against Alderson that he isn't creating. Did he say"Revolutionize Baseball and Revive The Mets" or did some ******* writer say it.

    I have heard Alderson speak quite a few times and never brings up the military unless asked.

    "He allows himself to be portrayed" - The media wants someone portrayed in a certain way you get portrayed that way. Lets not forget how "clutch" Jeter was -- How much of a "choker" Arod is despite what the facts say.

    It comes down simply to this..you obviously have a deep seeded hatred for Alderson...I don't. I could give a rats ass about how he presents his military career, or could care less if he dispels the media from doing so. Obviously enough people think enough of Alderson so this is all moot.

    All I wish is that he was given the rope that past GMs had with payroll budget so he could GM the team I root for. Other than that I don't care if he was GI Joe or working the mess hall.

    The

  5. #3155
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    I saw this story about 70% of households in the LA area not getting Dodger broadcasts and I thought of the Mets TV deal and SNY.

    http://nypost.com/2015/03/20/no-dodg...-tv-providers/

    I know Mandrake has commented about TV deals and the Dodgers in particular. Can Mandrake or anyone else shed some light on whats going on? Anyone have any idea what NY area pay TV customers pay additionally to have YES and SNY available in their homes?

  6. #3156
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I saw this story about 70% of households in the LA area not getting Dodger broadcasts and I thought of the Mets TV deal and SNY.

    http://nypost.com/2015/03/20/no-dodg...-tv-providers/

    I know Mandrake has commented about TV deals and the Dodgers in particular. Can Mandrake or anyone else shed some light on whats going on? Anyone have any idea what NY area pay TV customers pay additionally to have YES and SNY available in their homes?
    I want to say that the deal the Dodgers have is different than the deal the Mets and Yankees have with the local cable company.

    In New York, SNY and YES are part of the standard tier. The only tier lower is broadcast basic. So, if you want to watch Lifetime, SciFi, TNT, TBS, etc... you are going to have to pay for SNY and YES.

    Sports channels that are bundled into the standard tier (SNY, YES, MSG, MSG+, ESPN, ESPN2, NBCSN) add a lot of money to your cable bill, probably in excess of $10 / mo. The house of mouse can say to a cable company, "If you want ABC, Disney, ABC Family, etc... you are going to have to take the ESPN's, too." Same could be said for the NBC networks (NBC, NBCSN, CNBC, MSNBC, etc..)

    You can get around paying for SNY, YES, MSG, and MSG+ by subscribing to Dish and getting just AT120. Funny thing is, they advertise AT120+, which is AT120 + your RSN's. And you need AT120+ to get any any other ala carte package... So, in the NY DMA, you need to pay extra $$ for nothing before you can pay $$ for an ala carte package...
    20-Game "A" Plan, Prom Box 423.

  7. #3157
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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I saw this story about 70% of households in the LA area not getting Dodger broadcasts and I thought of the Mets TV deal and SNY.

    http://nypost.com/2015/03/20/no-dodg...-tv-providers/

    I know Mandrake has commented about TV deals and the Dodgers in particular. Can Mandrake or anyone else shed some light on whats going on? Anyone have any idea what NY area pay TV customers pay additionally to have YES and SNY available in their homes?
    The Time Warner deal was so crazy with the Dodgers that they tried to charge every other cable or satellite sky high prices to have the Dodgers channel. Every system said no thanks.
    Only a small percentage of people in Southern Cal could actually watch the Dodgers last season.. The Angels did not have the same problem even though they have the 2nd best contract in MLB.

    On my Time Warner menu, I see Channel 331 is Sports Net LA...but I can't subscribe here in NY (???) However, in my daughters room we don't have an HD box and for some reason I was getting the Dodger games unscrambled. I would think that gets 'fixed' this year.

    I am not sure about DISH, but now directv charges extra for the regional sports networks in Los Angeles and New York. For Time Warner, the cheapest package is 'starter' TV, for 24 channels you get NYC Over the air channels and ESPN...$20 a month. In fact, ESPN is usually at least $7 a month in every single cable/satellite household. It is nearly impossible for anyone, even if one never watches it, to avoid buying ESPN no matter how small the package.

    ESPN and the regionals in NYC cost around $12-$15 a month, and while that isn't a lot for sports fans, it is about $150 a year charged to people who don't watch sports. For example, last season less than 5% of households in metro NYC were watching the Mets AND Yankees together. 5% watching, 95% not watching, 100% are paying. There are bills in congress trying to stop this, but don't hold your breathe. If a la carte pricing ever comes to cable/satellite, it would cripple pro sports. Hockey and basketball would probably hurt the most, of course the NFL would be hurt the least (most games are on CBS, NBC, Fox, and ABC could take back ESPN games) and baseball would be in the middle.

    When MLB put the entire NLCS on Foxsports 1, media observers said that baseball could rue the day they kissed off the network OTA viewers. I guess we will have to wait for that result down the road.

    With the emergence of many new channels on free TV offering movies and retro TV (Antenna, ME TV, Get TV, Movies ! etc), and with Netflix and HULU, the only genre that hasn't been affected by "cord cutting" has been the sports world. A la carte programming would be a disaster for sports, and the mavens know it.


    Here is an article form two years ago with the numbers from 2013.

    http://www.whatyoupayforsports.com/2...new-york-city/


    According to SNL Kagan estimates, YES Network’s subscriber fee is $2.99 per month, SportsNet New York’s sub fee is $2.55 per month, and MSG charges a combined $4.91 per month for its two channels.So the end result is that every New Yorker with standard cable pays $10.45 per month, or $125.40 per year, for local sports channels
    Last edited by mandrake; 03-22-2015 at 05:42 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dstoffa View Post
    I want to say that the deal the Dodgers have is different than the deal the Mets and Yankees have with the local cable company.

    In New York, SNY and YES are part of the standard tier. The only tier lower is broadcast basic. So, if you want to watch Lifetime, SciFi, TNT, TBS, etc... you are going to have to pay for SNY and YES.

    Sports channels that are bundled into the standard tier (SNY, YES, MSG, MSG+, ESPN, ESPN2, NBCSN) add a lot of money to your cable bill, probably in excess of $10 / mo. The house of mouse can say to a cable company, "If you want ABC, Disney, ABC Family, etc... you are going to have to take the ESPN's, too." Same could be said for the NBC networks (NBC, NBCSN, CNBC, MSNBC, etc..)

    You can get around paying for SNY, YES, MSG, and MSG+ by subscribing to Dish and getting just AT120. Funny thing is, they advertise AT120+, which is AT120 + your RSN's. And you need AT120+ to get any any other ala carte package... So, in the NY DMA, you need to pay extra $$ for nothing before you can pay $$ for an ala carte package...

    I think it was a year or more ago when we had a discussion that the cash less experiment on the Henry Hudson Bridge was a 'practice run" for the East River tolls. Looks like I could be right, but even I didn't foresee the $8 toll to cross 60th Street.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    The Time Warner deal was so crazy with the Dodgers that they tried to charge every other cable or satellite sky high prices to have the Dodgers channel. Every system said no thanks.
    Only a small percentage of people in Southern Cal could actually watch the Dodgers last season.. The Angels did not have the same problem even though they have the 2nd best contract in MLB.

    On my Time Warner menu, I see Channel 331 is Sports Net LA...but I can't subscribe here in NY (???) However, in my daughters room we don't have an HD box and for some reason I was getting the Dodger games unscrambled. I would think that gets 'fixed' this year.

    I am not sure about DISH, but now directv charges extra for the regional sports networks in Los Angeles and New York. For Time Warner, the cheapest package is 'starter' TV, for 24 channels you get NYC Over the air channels and ESPN...$20 a month. In fact, ESPN is usually at least $7 a month in every single cable/satellite household. It is nearly impossible for anyone, even if one never watches it, to avoid buying ESPN no matter how small the package.

    ESPN and the regionals in NYC cost around $12-$15 a month, and while that isn't a lot for sports fans, it is about $150 a year charged to people who don't watch sports. For example, last season less than 5% of households in metro NYC were watching the Mets AND Yankees together. 5% watching, 95% not watching, 100% are paying. There are bills in congress trying to stop this, but don't hold your breathe. If a la carte pricing ever comes to cable/satellite, it would cripple pro sports. Hockey and basketball would probably hurt the most, of course the NFL would be hurt the least (most games are on CBS, NBC, Fox, and ABC could take back ESPN games) and baseball would be in the middle.

    When MLB put the entire NLCS on Foxsports 1, media observers said that baseball could rue the day they kissed off the network OTA viewers. I guess we will have to wait for that result down the road.

    With the emergence of many new channels on free TV offering movies and retro TV (Antenna, ME TV, Get TV, Movies ! etc), and with Netflix and HULU, the only genre that hasn't been affected by "cord cutting" has been the sports world. A la carte programming would be a disater for sports, and the mavens know it.


    Here is an article form two years ago with the numbers from 2013.

    http://www.whatyoupayforsports.com/2...new-york-city/


    According to SNL Kagan estimates, YES Network’s subscriber fee is $2.99 per month, SportsNet New York’s sub fee is $2.55 per month, and MSG charges a combined $4.91 per month for its two channels.So the end result is that every New Yorker with standard cable pays $10.45 per month, or $125.40 per year, for local sports channels
    Thanks for the response. Dodgers building a great team with cable money and no one can watch it because cable is trying to profit on its investment. I really do not know who to blame but as usual the fan gets screwed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    Thanks for the response. Dodgers building a great team with cable money and no one can watch it because cable is trying to profit on its investment. I really do not know who to blame but as usual the fan gets screwed.
    Well at least Guggenheim puts money into the team unlike Fred Saul and Spawn who pocket the TV money under a separate corporate entity.


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    Quote Originally Posted by rjsallstars View Post
    I saw this story about 70% of households in the LA area not getting Dodger broadcasts and I thought of the Mets TV deal and SNY.

    http://nypost.com/2015/03/20/no-dodg...-tv-providers/

    I know Mandrake has commented about TV deals and the Dodgers in particular. Can Mandrake or anyone else shed some light on whats going on? Anyone have any idea what NY area pay TV customers pay additionally to have YES and SNY available in their homes?
    Same situation in NYC with the Rangers & Islanders. The Rangers have always had a small core of rabid fans, but there's no way to expand that base because they're completely invisible on TV. People will never see them over the airways, you have to be paying for cable. Dolan is happy to drive revenue on his TV station at the expense of driving revenue to the hockey team. At least with the Mets & Yankees, you have a regular rotation of games on channel 9 & 11 so they're not completely forgotten to the casual fan

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Same situation in NYC with the Rangers & Islanders. The Rangers have always had a small core of rabid fans, but there's no way to expand that base because they're completely invisible on TV. People will never see them over the airways, you have to be paying for cable. Dolan is happy to drive revenue on his TV station at the expense of driving revenue to the hockey team. At least with the Mets & Yankees, you have a regular rotation of games on channel 9 & 11 so they're not completely forgotten to the casual fan
    Here is an article from last August in Forbe's http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybro...me-television/

    The Yankees averaged a share of 3.37 with an avg of 251K households in NY. The Mets had an avg share of 1.92 with 143K households and was usually number 7 in NYC prime time.

    This was 2014 so I expect Yankees numbers to go down and Mets numbers to go up in 2015. However, together they only attract an average of just over 5% of the market. Nealy 95% are not watching baseball.

    I would guess Rangers, Islanders, and Devils ratings must be much lower than the Yankees and Mets.

    http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/milleni...a-record-rate/ I find this very interesting, and I think MLB needs to take a good look at this. With a few notable exceptions (i.e LA and SF etc) MLB is only playing to a mostly middle aged white male audience. That's not saying exceptions are out there.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...t-fans/283626/


    http://www.clickz.com/clickz/news/23...-male-baseball


    and of course we have Curtis Granderson's game : http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish...are-black-fans

    What started out as a game among teammates has turned into a serious issue.

    Curtis Granderson challenged his fellow Yankees to "count the number of African-American" fans in the ballpark on a recent trip to Texas.

    The goal of the game was to count up to 10, without including people working at the stadium.

    "At first, it starts off as a joke," Granderson, who hit the second most home runs in baseball (42) between 2010 and this year's All-Star Game, (Toronto's Jose Bautista 61), told the Fort Worth-Star Telegram.

    "And as the game moves on, you'll get to 10, or maybe 15. Depends on where you are, too. Places like Chicago or New York, other places it's easy. Here (in Texas), it's hard. So after a while it becomes, 'Told you so.'"

  13. #3163
    Curious if the majority of people who go to NFL games, NHL games, NBA games would be characterized as middle aged white male audiences as well.

  14. #3164
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by mandrake View Post
    Here is an article from last August in Forbe's http://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybro...me-television/

    The Yankees averaged a share of 3.37 with an avg of 251K households in NY. The Mets had an avg share of 1.92 with 143K households and was usually number 7 in NYC prime time.

    This was 2014 so I expect Yankees numbers to go down and Mets numbers to go up in 2015. However, together they only attract an average of just over 5% of the market. Nealy 95% are not watching baseball.

    I would guess Rangers, Islanders, and Devils ratings must be much lower than the Yankees and Mets.

    http://nypost.com/2015/02/16/milleni...a-record-rate/ I find this very interesting, and I think MLB needs to take a good look at this. With a few notable exceptions (i.e LA and SF etc) MLB is only playing to a mostly middle aged white male audience. That's not saying exceptions are out there.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...t-fans/283626/


    http://www.clickz.com/clickz/news/23...-male-baseball


    and of course we have Curtis Granderson's game : http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish...are-black-fans

    What started out as a game among teammates has turned into a serious issue.

    Curtis Granderson challenged his fellow Yankees to "count the number of African-American" fans in the ballpark on a recent trip to Texas.

    The goal of the game was to count up to 10, without including people working at the stadium.

    "At first, it starts off as a joke," Granderson, who hit the second most home runs in baseball (42) between 2010 and this year's All-Star Game, (Toronto's Jose Bautista 61), told the Fort Worth-Star Telegram.

    "And as the game moves on, you'll get to 10, or maybe 15. Depends on where you are, too. Places like Chicago or New York, other places it's easy. Here (in Texas), it's hard. So after a while it becomes, 'Told you so.'"
    Quote Originally Posted by LI METS FAN View Post
    Curious if the majority of people who go to NFL games, NHL games, NBA games would be characterized as middle aged white male audiences as well.
    Lets face it - People can talk all they want about Selig - the fact remains he comissioned baseball in a bubble. He was not proactive at all. Selig only reacted to problems - such as the steroid debacle which he and his cronies helped create to begin with. Selig will be recognized as a great comissioner to some because of interleague play, WC, and the ASG meaning something. These things were created because there were problems to begin with - either it being the baseball strike, or an ASG ending in a tie (which is not a big deal to me).

    These were band-aids on a game that was losing audience share.

    They tell you baseball is making more money than ever --- that is a very mis leading statement because so is everyone else. How much of lions share is baseball getting is the real question.

    We all know football is the 800 pd gorilla in the room, and altough football will remain popular I believe baseball will put a sizeable dent into it under the new commssioner. I think Rob Manfred is going to get baseball on track. Football is under mass scrutiny right now and if anyone every blows the whistle on the NFL for the coverups and deceit it will hurt the sport in a big way. Football has swept players injuries, drugs, and domestic issues under the rug for decades. The NFL has the resources and the infrastructure to remain off the radar.

    Does anyone remember when MLB went in front of congress? I am sure you do. Do you also remember that shortly thereafter the NFL went before congress? Congress couldnt get on their knees fast enough to commend the NFL for having such a terrific, well thought out and enforced drug policy. Has anyone in congress actually seen an NFL game? Does anyone really think that the NFL doesnt have a huge drug problem from steroids to pain medication, and whatever else will enhance a player to play one more game.

    I belive Manfred will put programs in place to re-introduce baseball to the inner cities in a big way. I also like the changes that are taking place to decrease the down time in a game.

    I love football, but baseball is by far the greatest game ever created. I hope Manfred provides the leadership that Selig couldnt to get it back to where it belongs.

  15. #3165
    Join Date
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    near JFK airport ,NYC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mongoose View Post
    Well at least Guggenheim puts money into the team unlike Fred Saul and Spawn who pocket the TV money under a separate corporate entity.
    hey mongoose, this is up you alley
    dude you are 100% spot on
    interesting article from forbes.com
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...d-i-was-wrong/
    Yogi Berra Quotes=

    Always go to other people's funerals, otherwise they won't come to yours.

  16. #3166
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by drdg View Post
    hey mongoose, this is up you alley
    dude you are 100% spot on
    interesting article from forbes.com
    http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozan...d-i-was-wrong/

    Now that's a Pulitzer worthy article

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