The List of 104, why do we even believe the names?

[RubeBaker]

I made a post about this in another thread, but I think it deserves its own discussion.

Make no mistake, this list has brought out the absolute worst in journalism. We have gotten so caught up in the steroid scandal we haven't taken a step back to take a look as to HOW these names are coming up.

Every time a name creeps out, it's always through an unnamed source with "knowledge" of the list. Never a copy of or direct access to the list, just knowledge of it. And thank goodness it's through either a lawyer or government official, lord only knows those two groups NEVER have an agenda. We don't know who these people are, how they have knowledge, or if they even exist for that matter.

The other problem is, where is the source itself? The media hasn't seen it, the only ones who have seen it aren't showing it. So there are no copies to back it up, no photographs, nothing to show that 1) it does exist 2) those names actually are on there. But they are rattling off these names, and there is nothing to back it up against. We can't check their sources because there is nothing that can be checked.

To put it simply, my argument is this: the media is naming these players through "anonymous" sources, and through nothing but hearsay. Oh, some guy said his name is on the list it must be true.

It would be like if I went on a gameshow, buzzed in and just said, "I know the answer," and got the points without clarifying. They can't prove I don't know, and I don't have to clarify how I know. It sounds stupid, but this is how the whole leak process has gone down.

A name comes out, and we jump on that player, and never question why. The media is in a position now to name anybody they want, it could be a name that is totally insane and completely out of a left field, but all they have to say is "he's on the list" and bam, they player's on the defensive, everything he's done is questioned, and it could cost him millions.

There is a lot at stake by releasing these names, so let's have some due diligence before we can say for sure that these players are guilty. We make fun of players when they claim they didn't know how there name got on there, but could it just be possible there may be a reason for that? Some names will come out, and we all have a pretty good idea of who did and who didn't, and the players named so far haven't been totally without suspicion to begin with. You can name some people and they will confess, doesn't mean it's proof that they actually are on the list.

I am done with this leak nonsense, and I am not buying into any name that comes out in these leaks unless that 1) the player admits they did it or 2) we see the actual list, or get good solid proof that the people naming these names have any validity at all. The media has done a poor job and abandoned their journalistic integrity and validity just to make big headlines.

[STLCards2]

Since MLB admitted that at least 8 of the individuals on the list did not test for steroids (and left it open that it could have been over-the-counter-medication) the waters have been muddied even more.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3900542

How are we to know which are which?

[Bulldog19]

Rube, I've been saying this same thing all along. I won't believe a word of it until there is actual proof.

[Erik Bedard]

I still don't know why the names were even kept. Just assign each player tested a random number upon walking in, mark down only the number and the test result when they leave, and then you have your statistical study.

[RubeBaker]

I still don't know why the names were even kept. Just assign each player tested a random number upon walking in, mark down only the number and the test result when they leave, and then you have your statistical study.

That has puzzled me too. The purpose of the test to begin with was to see how many players were sing, not who was positive and who was not. The name was of no consequence, the result was all that mattered for this study.

This was supposed to be confidential from the onset, and there is no reason why the players should have been listed by name. If this is indeed the case, and only numbers were used, then whoever sought out the names to go with the numbers may have violated HIPPA laws in the act.

[spark240]

Just because the sources aren't named to you, and the original documents shown to you, doesn't mean the reporters (and their editors/publishers/producers) don't know exactly what's going on.

[04golf]

I really hate the 24/7 media we have today and the garbage that is considered news worthy. First off there are many more important issues in life than who is using PEDs in baseball. The media is simply manipulating the situation. They will every few months release a name that may or may not be true just for a story. With media 24/7 there always needs to be a story to keep people entertained.

I would like to see hard evidence, an actual physical list that is released. Dont believe the media, its alot of ejournalism/ bloggers these days with no sources or creditability.

The media is ruining baseball. Baseball is meant to be an entertainment sport, which it is. Integrity went away along time ago, baseball is simply entertainment and a business. Quite frankly PEDs havent truned me away from baseball, its the inflated salaries and contracts these players make. I see more media fixated on contract negotations that the actually games them selves.

Who cares about PEDs. We are a pill popping society. Every other commercial on tv during a baseball game is a about selling a pill to the public. Alcohol is a substance that impairs minds yet can be bought at any gas station or cvs. Its not illegal yet a very dangerous drug. Same with cigarettes. But in the end we rant and rant about a baseball player using a drug that doesnt affect anyone else but the player, because there is supposly still some integrity left in the game. Ive been to plently of MLB games this year, the music, sounds, prices, corporate, rules, salaries of players, its all ruined the integrity of the game.

And lastly congress needs to start focusing on more important issues than baseball. Baseball is not harming the life or bettering the country. Yes these players used drugs, but they didnt go out and commit crimes on them, harm others etc.. They used drugs to play baseball. If we really want to punish baseball players for using PEDs, take back portions of their large salaries for playing on drugs. They got these huge contracts because of performance. Well they cheated so pay back what you cheated your owners out of.

Media, baseball, life...its losing all of its integrity. I wish I could have grown up in an era where everyone wasnt so fixated on others lives.

[spark240]

The media is simply manipulating the situation. They will every few months release a name that may or may not be true just for a story.

No. That's not how "the media" operates. Reporters will put out what they have as soon as they have enough verifiable (to them) information that makes a coherent (even if small) story in itself.

The people who are trickling out names are not media; if anything, it's the media which is being manipulated.

[RubeBaker]

No. That's not how "the media" operates. Reporters will put out what they have as soon as they have enough verifiable (to them) information that makes a coherent (even if small) story in itself.

The people who are trickling out names are not media; if anything, it's the media which is being manipulated.

But what I am saying is where is the verifiable evidence? We don't know who the source is, or how credible they are, or if they even exist for that matter. The public also has no way to verify any of these claims.

The AP reported that Matt Bush was arrested again last month. There's that infamous video of his arrest, plus police records documenting the arrest. If there were anything suspicious about it, somebody could easily do some research and that yes, there is proof this happened.

The problem with this list is that nobody can do that. A name crops up, and we just take on faith that they must be right. Over the years, we have seen the likes of Stephen Glass, Jason Blair, and the Killian letters (the ones that got Dan Rather in hot water) where we have seen members of the media ignore journalistic ideals in order to sell headlines.

If the media had wanted to do the right thing, they would have kept quiet until those names saw the light of day. To think that all reporters will act ethically and do due diligence in what they do is erroneous. Most of them will, but with as big a story as steroids has been, it's always possible that they won't.

[Seattle1]

One way you can tell it's credible is that Ichiro and Griffey are not on the list.

(At least the versions of the list that have been "leaked" to the internet.)

[spark240]

But what I am saying is where is the verifiable evidence? We don't know who the source is, or how credible they are, or if they even exist for that matter. The public also has no way to verify any of these claims.

Are you able to personally verify the accounts of events in the Middle East that you see on television and in newspapers? Do you disbelieve all of it?

The problem with this list is that nobody can do that. A name crops up, and we just take on faith that they must be right. Over the years, we have seen the likes of Stephen Glass, Jason Blair, and the Killian letters (the ones that got Dan Rather in hot water) where we have seen members of the media ignore journalistic ideals in order to sell headlines.

That's true--but those are really rare exceptions. There are many thousands of news reports of all kinds filed every day, and only a handful, ever, have been revealed as frauds like Glass and Blair.

There is unquestionably political bias (mostly in favor of the status quo, incumbent politicians, and big business) in the choice of which news stories to present and pursue, and which quotes to use to illustrate them, and so on. That's not the same as reporting fiction, and when the rare case of fictionalization does happen, it's typically other members of "the media" who reveal it, and lead the castigation of the perpetrators.

If the media had wanted to do the right thing, they would have kept quiet until those names saw the light of day.

What do you mean? To a reporter, "keeping quiet" is the opposite of "the light of day." Promptly reporting the information they do have--a few names, from credible sources (unnamed to keep the channel open for further revelations)--is the light of day, creeping into a dark crevice.

[sturg1dj]

One way you can tell it's credible is that Ichiro and Griffey are not on the list.

(At least the versions of the list that have been "leaked" to the internet.)

even if that is true, there are still many Mariners that are going to be on the list. So if we start removing stats I would petition we also remove RBI's that come from runs scored by steroid users. Bye, bye Griffey RBI's






and anyways why do we believe the names? Because its a with-hunt. That's how these things work. I have in my right hand 104 confirmed steroid users....sound familiar?