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Thread: Derek Jeter & Team Records for Career Hits

  1. #1
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    Derek Jeter & Team Records for Career Hits

    As of this writing, Derek Jeter sits four hits shy of breaking Lou Gehrig's record for most hits by a Yankee. Thought the occasion was a good opportunity to look at some similar records. Some interesting surprises here.

    ARI 1337 Luis Gonzalez
    ATL 3600 Hank Aaron
    BAL 3184 Cal Ripken
    BOS 3419 Carl Yastrzemski
    CHC 2995 Cap Anson
    CHW 2749 Luke Appling
    CIN 3358 Pete Rose
    CLE 2046 Nap Lajoie
    COL 2111 Todd Helton
    DET 3900 Ty Cobb
    FLA 1273 Luis Castillo
    HOU 3060 Craig Biggio
    KC 3154 George Brett
    LAA 2368 Garret Anderson
    LAD 2804 Zack Wheat
    MIL 3142 Robin Yount
    NYM 1411 Ed Kranepool
    NYY 2721 Derek Jeter/Lou Gehrig
    OAK 1882 Bert Campaneris
    PHI 2234 Mike Schmidt
    PIT 3000 Roberto Clemente
    SD 3141 Tony Gwynn
    SF 3187 Willie Mays
    SEA 2247 Edgar Martinez
    STL 3630 Stan Musial
    TB 1273 Carl Crawford
    TOR 1583 Tony Fernandez
    WAS 1694 Tim Wallach
    Last edited by Brad Harris; 09-10-2009 at 11:54 AM.
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    If you notice, the lowest totals are all from expansion teams. Only the Mets are almost 50 years old, and their highest total comes from Ed Kranepool????
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by yankillaz View Post
    If you notice, the lowest totals are all from expansion teams. Only the Mets are almost 50 years old, and their highest total comes from Ed Kranepool????
    Free agency plays as big a part of that as anything.
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    Wonder how far he will get. Predictions?
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Wonder how far he will get. Predictions?
    3, 267 safeties.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brad Harris View Post
    As of this writing, Derek Jeter sits four hits shy of breaking Lou Gehrig's record for most hits by a Yankee. Thought the occasion was a good opportunity to look at some similar records. Some interesting surprises here.
    Sorted:

    Code:
    DET	 3,900 	Ty Cobb
    STL	 3,630 	Stan Musial
    ATL	 3,600 	Hank Aaron
    BOS	 3,419 	Carl Yastrzemski
    CIN	 3,358 	Pete Rose
    SF	 3,187 	Willie Mays
    BAL	 3,184 	Cal Ripken
    KC	 3,154 	George Brett
    MIL	 3,142 	Robin Yount
    SD	 3,141 	Tony Gwynn
    HOU	 3,060 	Craig Biggio
    PIT	 3,000 	Roberto Clemente
    CHC	 2,995 	Cap Anson
    LAD	 2,804 	Zack Wheat
    CHW	 2,749 	Luke Appling
    NYY	 2,721 	Lou Gehrig
    LAA	 2,368 	Garret Anderson
    SEA	 2,247 	Edgar Martinez
    PHI	 2,234 	Mike Schmidt
    COL	 2,111 	Todd Helton
    CLE	 2,046 	Nap Lajoie
    OAK	 1,882 	Bert Campaneris
    WAS	 1,694 	Tim Wallach
    TOR	 1,583 	Tony Fernandez
    NYM	 1,411 	Ed Kranepool
    ARI	 1,337 	Luis Gonzalez
    FLA	 1,273 	Luis Castillo
    TB	 1,273 	Carl Crawford
    Of the older teams, CLE and OAK are waaay down there, and the Yankee's are suprisingly low.
    Last edited by CandlestickBum; 09-10-2009 at 11:51 AM. Reason: code

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    Quote Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
    Wonder how far he will get. Predictions?
    Tough question. I'll be surprised if he gets past 3,400 hits.
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    This is such a non-story outside of NY Yankee circles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CandlestickBum View Post
    Sorted:

    Code:
    DET	 3,900 	Ty Cobb
    STL	 3,630 	Stan Musial
    ATL	 3,600 	Hank Aaron
    BOS	 3,419 	Carl Yastrzemski
    CIN	 3,358 	Pete Rose
    SF	 3,187 	Willie Mays
    BAL	 3,184 	Cal Ripken
    KC	 3,154 	George Brett
    MIL	 3,142 	Robin Yount
    SD	 3,141 	Tony Gwynn
    HOU	 3,060 	Craig Biggio
    PIT	 3,000 	Roberto Clemente
    CHC	 2,995 	Cap Anson
    LAD	 2,804 	Zack Wheat
    CHW	 2,749 	Luke Appling
    NYY	 2,721 	Lou Gehrig
    LAA	 2,368 	Garret Anderson
    SEA	 2,247 	Edgar Martinez
    PHI	 2,234 	Mike Schmidt
    COL	 2,111 	Todd Helton
    CLE	 2,046 	Nap Lajoie
    OAK	 1,882 	Bert Campaneris
    WAS	 1,694 	Tim Wallach
    TOR	 1,583 	Tony Fernandez
    NYM	 1,411 	Ed Kranepool
    ARI	 1,337 	Luis Gonzalez
    FLA	 1,273 	Luis Castillo
    TB	 1,273 	Carl Crawford
    Of the older teams, CLE and OAK are waaay down there, and the Yankee's are suprisingly low.
    I'm not surprised by Oakland because their dynastic players were always sold off, but Cleveland is somewhat unexpected. (Shows how few great hitters that stuck around long enough.) Consider how many of these franchises have a record lower than Ichiro Suzuki's 9-year hit total.
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    Am I the only one surprised at the low hit total for the Phillies? I mean, this is a 127 year old franchise and their hit leader has fewer hits than the hit leader for my beloved M's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by KCGHOST View Post
    This is such a non-story outside of NY Yankee circles.
    Which is a fallacy since the Yankees are the marquee franchise of MLB. Lou Gehrig isn't just "some player".

    Jeter is still ahead of Pete Rose's pace for career hits

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    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post

    Jeter is still ahead of Pete Rose's pace for career hits
    And? Cobb, Aaron, Yount, Crawford, Speaker, and Musial all had more hits by the age of 35 than Rose did too. Yount finished about 1100 hits behind Rose. Crawford is about 1300 behind Rose.

    Jeter's already amassed a great hit total, but he is by no means guaranteed anything. Like Crawford, he could be out of the game before he even makes it to 3,000.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    Which is a fallacy since the Yankees are the marquee franchise of MLB. Lou Gehrig isn't just "some player".

    Jeter is still ahead of Pete Rose's pace for career hits
    It's not a fallacy. If you can legitimately point out why this is such an important story for fans from the 28 other MLB cities (and other cities in other geographic locations) that it so greatly trumps all else I'd be surprised.

    It is a story, a good one. One deserving of mention. It is not even close to being the biggest story of the year as someone on ESPN trumped it as this morning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Cold Nose View Post
    It's not a fallacy. If you can legitimately point out why this is such an important story for fans from the 28 other MLB cities (and other cities in other geographic locations) that it so greatly trumps all else I'd be surprised.

    It is a story, a good one. One deserving of mention. It is not even close to being the biggest story of the year as someone on ESPN trumped it as this morning.
    I would agree that it's not the biggest story of the year, but the original comment was that it was a "non-story" outside of NY. Just think about the rich history of the Yankees, and no one has gotten to 3,000 hits which is pretty shocking. Jeter will likely be the first.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by GordonGecko View Post
    I would agree that it's not the biggest story of the year, but the original comment was that it was a "non-story" outside of NY. Just think about the rich history of the Yankees, and no one has gotten to 3,000 hits which is pretty shocking. Jeter will likely be the first.
    It is a story. As an objective former journalist, I'd say it deserves its own article, more than just the team-by-team capsules most local papers across the country would have. I wouldn't put it on the first sports page of the Detroit News or Chicago Tribune or Atlanta Constitution, etc. but it does merit mention.

    Yes. Mention.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by tearforamariner View Post
    Like Crawford, he could be out of the game before he even makes it to 3,000.
    Highly unlikely though. He'll likely reach 3,000 in the next 2 seasons. Yes career ending injuries can happen to anyone, especially after 35 but Jeter has been very consistant in his career, i'll rekon he'll end up around 3,300-3,500. How long he stays with the yankees will probably be up to him as much as anyone, you have to feel they'll make room for him in the OF or DH until he feels ready to move on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tearforamariner View Post
    And? Cobb, Aaron, Yount, Crawford, Speaker, and Musial all had more hits by the age of 35 than Rose did too. Yount finished about 1100 hits behind Rose. Crawford is about 1300 behind Rose.

    Jeter's already amassed a great hit total, but he is by no means guaranteed anything. Like Crawford, he could be out of the game before he even makes it to 3,000.
    Willie Keeler, who took fewer games to reach 2,000 hits than anyone else ever, had 2,650 hits before he was 35 and a .355 lifetime avg., heck, he'd never once hit below .300 -but he didn't make 3,000 hits and was out of baseball four years later at .341 lifetime after seasons of .234, .263, and .264, so nothing's a given.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaldrin View Post
    Willie Keeler, who took fewer games to reach 2,000 hits than anyone else ever, had 2,650 hits before he was 35 and a .355 lifetime avg., heck, he'd never once hit below .300 -but he didn't make 3,000 hits and was out of baseball four years later at .341 lifetime after seasons of .234, .263, and .264, so nothing's a given.
    I wonder how much effect the foul strike rule had on Keeler's batting skill, his batting average. Before foul balls were counted as strikes Willie was knocking the cover off the ball. Before 1901 foul balls were not counted as strikes in the NL, the AL followed in 1903.

    Willie dropped dramatically in that time, he was only 30-31 years old.

    The reason I bring up that rule change and it's possible effect is because Willie and John McGraw were masters at fouling off pitches ( no strike) until they got one they liked. One of them, don't recall who, one time fouled off 22 pitches, not charged with one strike, then walked.

    That aside I do agree with your point, we can never know, looks like Jeter is on his way, but nothing is sure.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 09-10-2009 at 06:40 PM.

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    We'll never really know about McGraw, since he finally blew out his knee for good in spring training 1903 so we don't have any numbers to crunch, but with Keeler...well, it's true that he did foul off a lot of pitches before the rule, and it's clear that the rule affected him, but not that much it seems.

    In 1900, without the rule, he hit .362 with a 129 OPS+. In 1901, with it, his batting dropped to a career low (for a full season) .339, but his OPS+ was at 126 and he still had 200 hits. The next three years it was 130, 116, and 147, which was the second highest of his career, so there really was no dramatic drop in his fortunes, he merely reflected the league as a whole, but he was still getting 180+ hits a year.

    He suddenly lost it, as mentioned in my earlier post, at the age of 35 in 1907, when he hit .234 after never failing to reach either .300 or the league top 10 in batting one single time in his career (in fact, in both 1904 and 05 he was second in the league in batting, so he wasn't at all in decline). However, I've just noticed that it was also the first season that he didn't play a full complement of games- he only played 107 that year.

    Perhaps he was injured or something? Anybody know about this? That would certainly explain the tailspin at the end of his career.

    As a side note, you can see one effect of the foul strike rule in his stats- he started bunting more. Beginning in 1901 he had 9 straight seasons of over 20 sacrifices, with an amazing 33 in only 99 games when his magic was all gone in 1909.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzaldrin View Post
    We'll never really know about McGraw, since he finally blew out his knee for good in spring training 1903 so we don't have any numbers to crunch, but with Keeler...well, it's true that he did foul off a lot of pitches before the rule, and it's clear that the rule affected him, but not that much it seems.

    In 1900, without the rule, he hit .362 with a 129 OPS+. In 1901, with it, his batting dropped to a career low (for a full season) .339, but his OPS+ was at 126 and he still had 200 hits. The next three years it was 130, 116, and 147, which was the second highest of his career, so there really was no dramatic drop in his fortunes, he merely reflected the league as a whole, but he was still getting 180+ hits a year.

    He suddenly lost it, as mentioned in my earlier post, at the age of 35 in 1907, when he hit .234 after never failing to reach either .300 or the league top 10 in batting one single time in his career (in fact, in both 1904 and 05 he was second in the league in batting, so he wasn't at all in decline). However, I've just noticed that it was also the first season that he didn't play a full complement of games- he only played 107 that year.

    Perhaps he was injured or something? Anybody know about this? That would certainly explain the tailspin at the end of his career.

    As a side note, you can see one effect of the foul strike rule in his stats- he started bunting more. Beginning in 1901 he had 9 straight seasons of over 20 sacrifices, with an amazing 33 in only 99 games when his magic was all gone in 1909.
    Do not know about McGraw, my previous post dealt only with Keeler and his dramatic drop. I only mentioned John because like Keeler he used that "no strike" foul rule greatly to his advantage.

    Yes as you say Keeler really took a dip in 1907 but his slide began much earlier, around 1900 still young 30 or 31, just at the time the foul strike rule was changed. I can't say that was the whole reason but it's at least reasonable to at least give it some thought, maybe part of the reason for that decline.

    He may have finished second in those two seasons but his numbers show he was in decline after the turn of the century, more so than the league declined.

    Here he is is some full seasons.
    Average for years
    1894-1900 age 22-28----Ba. .383-----OBA .428
    1901-1907 age 29-35----Ba. .312-----OBA .356 Fouls now called strikes.

    His three highest batting averages in these years
    1894-1900------.424 .386 .385
    1901-1907------.343 .339 .333

    Now his stats reflect the leagues drop with that foul strike change, but it appears he fell off the edge, really came down
    Again, not to say that rule change was the only factor, how will we ever know for sure, but it may have played a part in his drop after the turn of the century.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules View Post
    Tough question. I'll be surprised if he gets past 3,400 hits.
    On the Yankee game last night, the announcer said Jeter is quoted as saying he'd like to play until 43. If he does that, he should get past 3,400 easily.
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