Blindly Throwing $ @ Youth Sports

[shake-n-bake]

I was talking with a friend today about how football was going. His son is in a league that costs 5X what my son's league cost. The coaching in my son's league is nothing short of outstanding. The level of competition is basically a wash, in fact looking at the who's who of kids in both leagues you could easily make a case that the competition is better in the cheaper league.

I wouldn't want my son to switch to the other league even if it cost the same or even less. There's a lot of parents who could afford to pay the cost of the other league that have kids on my son's team.

About the only advantage that we really agreed on was the uniforms and the fufee stuff surrounding the game, but I think he really believes that somehow by paying the extra cash he gives his kid an advantage later on.

I don't have any experience with travel baseball, but is that mentality out there in that as well?

[Kevkey]

Travel baseball is like many things in life..cost and quality are not necessarily related.

[shake-n-bake]

It comes up here a lot about what's different these days compared to genereations gone by. I don't really buy into the parental behavior being all that much different. I heard the word "politics" thrown around in youth sports before I ever really understood what that meant. That's been there a long time. So has the outrageous behavior. What really strikes me as different is the prevelance of spending, spending, spending by so many in the hope that athletic prowess can be somehow bought.

[Jake Patterson]

Travel baseball is like many things in life..cost and quality are not necessarily related.

agree.......

[skipper5]

"It comes up here a lot about what's different these days compared to genereations gone by. I don't really buy into the parental behavior being all that much different."

It's much different. In the 1960's, many--if not most-- parents didn't attend their sons' scholastic sports events, with the exception of football and hoops.

The were very few over-the-top sports-dads. There must have been a few, but I can't remember any.

If asked, my kids could provide many names of dads who they think are over-the-top.

[scorekeeper]

It's much different. In the 1960's, many--if not most-- parents didn't attend their sons' scholastic sports events, with the exception of football and hoops.

I read your post, then I thought about it for a minute, and something occurred to me. I can’t say how it was different because I grew up in a completely different environment than the one I deal with now.

I grew up in a small rural town in the Steel Valley of Ohio. My dad was a carpenter, and mom was a housekeeper. We never went without, but for sure there wasn’t a lot of disposable income. My day would have given almost anything to come to my HS games, but there was a problem. He needed to go to work to get paid. My mom came to many of my games, but not dad.

There was one kid who’s dad came to the games, but he was in a wheelchair, and it was darn seldom it was any different for any of the other teams we played, because the entire area was industrial, and there were few parents who could just take off of work.

The team I score for now, is very different indeed. While my graduating class was about 300, this school is almost triple the size. While the average household at my school had the average family income, the average family income at this school is well over $100K, which means lots more disposable income. While most of the dads where I grew up were hourly guys, at least half of the parents at this school work for the government in one way or another, or own their own businesses.

What I’m saying is, of course in those days parents would normally only attend HS football and basketball games. They were at night and parents didn’t get docked pay to attend.

The were very few over-the-top sports-dads. There must have been a few, but I can't remember any.

I honestly think there would have been more back when I was growing up, if the income levels were at a place where there was a lot of disposable income like there is today.

[Ursa Major]

This may set a record for one of the quickest hijackings of a thread. It may be that over-the-top ("OTP") dads are more likely to put up the money for expensive travel ball programs - so maybe there is a connection.

I don't see that much difference in expense for the programs here in the San Francisco Bay area, though there are maybe a couple of elite programs that attract the suburban kids. I live in the East Bay, and some of the better programs are geared toward a mixture of inner city and suburban kids, so they have to keep the costs pretty reasonable. Since the programs only provide the jersey, there isn't all that much froo-froo to charge parents for. The costs add up with tournament fees for parents who want to play in top level tournaments, but those fees also don't vary with the caliber of the program.

And, frankly, I think having the modest programs available is great, because that allows the inner city kids who might get sucked away into other sports to stay with baseball. I predict a surprising resurgence of African-American participation in baseball over the next few years -- at least coming from our area.

[JRH11]

"It comes up here a lot about what's different these days compared to genereations gone by. I don't really buy into the parental behavior being all that much different."

It's much different. In the 1960's, many--if not most-- parents didn't attend their sons' scholastic sports events, with the exception of football and hoops.

The were very few over-the-top sports-dads. There must have been a few, but I can't remember any.

If asked, my kids could provide many names of dads who they think are over-the-top.

I'm 40, and I can only think of one parent who stuck around for practice when I was a kid. Nowadays, most parents stick around for practices and rarely miss a game.

[shake-n-bake]

Perhaps it has something to do with where you were raised, not just when. Ever seen the movie Friday Night Lights? I was raised in a small town where HS sports was king. Pro sports venues were a long distance away. Even the closest Div I college was a 3 hour (weather permitting) drive.

We had perennially good HS athletics and a HS that was in the highest division of school sizes (small town but only one HS). If you were an athlete, you were treated like a God. So, it was really the opposite. No one shows up at HS practices and maybe a few parents hang around and watch Jr. HS or below practices these days. However, in my day (45) there was practically tailgating before every practice and youth leagues had every parent there.

[shake-n-bake]

The other thing that really had me scratching my head is that my friend's son is very small. I get the impression also that he thinks paying this big money will somehow make that irrelevant.

This more expensive league doesn't have as many size and weight restrictions. Occassionally that can be an advantage or a disadvantage for a kid. The big boy 6th and 7th graders that go 190# and above are allowed to play on the 8th grade junior high team since they cannot play in my son's league that has restrictions and that's what they all chose to do.

So anyway we're talking and he comments that it sucks for my son to be subject to rule restrictions because he's over 135#. And, if he played in his kid's league "he could play real football." I thought to myself you cocky SOB. My kid plays "real football" year-round with kids that have got your kid by over a foot in height and 100#. I'm 6'4" and 250 (and I get one of his friends hand me down clothes) and he's got no problem strapping it up and tackling me.

And, you're now going to tell me that now all of a sudden since you ponyed up 5 or 6 hundred bucks that your kid who's probably afraid of my daughter is playing "real football." Ha, Ha.

[scorekeeper]

. . . And, you're now going to tell me that now all of a sudden since you ponyed up 5 or 6 hundred bucks that your kid who's probably afraid of my daughter is playing "real football." Ha, Ha.

I think that what’s happening is pretty normal. This other guy wants to do everything he can to make the case that what he did was the best course of action, and of your you’re doing the same thing.

The same thing happens in baseball all the time. One guy’s kid goes to one pitching or hitting coach, and another guy sends his kid to a different one. Of course they’re gonna defend, rationalize, and do whatever else it takes to show their choice was best. And of course the same thing goes for teams, be it an expensive club team/academy team or a relatively inexpensive school team.

I did it, and I’ll bet so does everyone else to some degree. But the sad thing is, I’ll bet if you line up all the kids and ask them, I’ll bet not too many take this “posturing” nearly as seriously as do their parents.

[shake-n-bake]

I think that what’s happening is pretty normal. This other guy wants to do everything he can to make the case that what he did was the best course of action, and of your you’re doing the same thing.

The same thing happens in baseball all the time. One guy’s kid goes to one pitching or hitting coach, and another guy sends his kid to a different one. Of course they’re gonna defend, rationalize, and do whatever else it takes to show their choice was best. And of course the same thing goes for teams, be it an expensive club team/academy team or a relatively inexpensive school team.

I did it, and I’ll bet so does everyone else to some degree. But the sad thing is, I’ll bet if you line up all the kids and ask them, I’ll bet not too many take this “posturing” nearly as seriously as do their parents.

I don't know about that. I remember playing an academy team in a baseball tournament and the one thing the kids on our team kept talking about was how much money it costs. They seemed to be intimidated by that. It was like folk lore stuff. Kids were saying outrageous stuff like, "yeah, I heard it costs $150,000 a year to play for that team."

I told my son to tell the other kids that those boys put their jock on one leg at a time like you guys do. He gave up a HR in the first inning that quite possibly hasn't landed yet and told me, "Hey dad [snicker] guess that didn't work huh?" "I put my jock on both legs at a time anyhow."

[scorekeeper]

I don't know about that. I remember playing an academy team in a baseball tournament and the one thing the kids on our team kept talking about was how much money it costs. They seemed to be intimidated by that. It was like folk lore stuff. Kids were saying outrageous stuff like, "yeah, I heard it costs $150,000 a year to play for that team."

I told my son to tell the other kids that those boys put their jock on one leg at a time like you guys do. He gave up a HR in the first inning that quite possibly hasn't landed yet and told me, "Hey dad [snicker] guess that didn't work huh?" "I put my jock on both legs at a time anyhow."

Yes, I don’t doubt that it CAN happen, and in fact said that. But your example isn’t at all normal in my experience. And remember where the kids get those ideas. They very likely get it from their parents because I don’t know of too many kids who have the $$$$$$$ to pay for much of anything by themselves. It still sounds pretty normal to me. The kid who said that prolly overheard his dad talking about it.

[devilsadvocate]

Things I DON'T remember from my youth sports:

• Pop-up shade canopies
• Propane heaters
• Coolers on wheels
• Tailgating - at youth sporting events
• Team logo stickers on vehicles
• Team shirts, hats and visors for the parents
• $300+ gloves
• $400+ bats
• Roadtrips out of state to play at mini replicas of MLB fields
• Regular mailings about expensive showcase events
• Overuse injuries
• Tommy John surgeries

In my world, yeah, things have changed.

[Jake Patterson]

Things I DON'T remember from my youth sports:

• Pop-up shade canopies
• Propane heaters
• Coolers on wheels
• Tailgating - at youth sporting events
• Team logo stickers on vehicles
• Team shirts, hats and visors for the parents
• $300+ gloves
• $400+ bats
• Roadtrips out of state to play at mini replicas of MLB fields
• Regular mailings about expensive showcase events
• Overuse injuries
• Tommy John surgeries

In my world, yeah, things have changed.

How about mom's driving vans with "Proud Mother of a Devils Player" bumper stickers?

[scorekeeper]

Things I DON'T remember from my youth sports:

• Pop-up shade canopies
• Propane heaters
• Coolers on wheels
• Tailgating - at youth sporting events
• Team logo stickers on vehicles
• Team shirts, hats and visors for the parents
• $300+ gloves
• $400+ bats
• Roadtrips out of state to play at mini replicas of MLB fields
• Regular mailings about expensive showcase events
• Overuse injuries
• Tommy John surgeries

In my world, yeah, things have changed.

And who brought on those changes? The kids or the parents?