Is Rolling the Wrists Actually a Problem?

[FiveFrameSwing]

If you have seen some of Yaeger's workout videos, he shows how the wrists uncock or snap as the shoulders and arms "decelerate" He shows that if you inhibit that uncocking and subsequent rolling - over you are slowing the hands by forcing the shoulders/arms to continue to turn/push rather than transfer to hands....

I hope that is clear--much easier to see on the video...gave it a shot

This makes sense ... it sounds like you are describing the lead-side deceleration drills.

[collegeStar]

This makes sense ... it sounds like you are describing the lead-side deceleration drills.

yes---------

[FiveFrameSwing]

Not saying the sequencing was wrong--the guys that worked with him do it well---but I have had trouble teaching it --or at least getting my players to perform it in the games

Not all MLB players tip the barrel ... but many of them do use a two plane swing. I seem to recall that Yeager's barrel loading was similar to what Donny described (below). Maybe that might help?

Tip and Rip drill

•Since the perfect high level swing has some complex elements that make explanation difficult we break the process down into a simple beginning and a reactionary phase ending that gives the batter vital ball flight feedback

•The beginning is the tip of the barrel with hip coil. The tip is the forward tipping of the barrel to the opposite field gap with the hands. The shoulders stay relaxed and on the same line of direction(LOD) as the feet and the hips coil as the hands only tip the barrel.

•The two negative loading moves that we want to connect in the players mind are the hand tip and the hip coil/ tuck

•So the command is ”coil your hips as you tip the barrel”. The hips and the hands must get behind the rotary mechanism.

•The reactionary phase ( swing) is “stride and hit the inside seam of that ball on the tee with the laces vertical and facing backwards.

•The goal is to load the hips and the hands, carry the loaded hips and barrel position forward in the stride and then get inside the ball yielding a line drivethrough the pitchers mound area.

•The plane transition of the barrel from tipped to opposite fieldgap to back at the rear shoulder as the hips open into foot plant will yield the effortless line drives . If they practice the drill with this visual feedback of the inside seam as the aiming target and the ball flight objective of a ball hit between the gaps then they can synch theweight shift and barrel movement such that the lead shoulder is coming back to the ball at launch as the hips are opening

[collegeStar]

thanx--------

[collegeStar]

Hey JJA
go to a site called baseball debate
look under Hank Aaron revisited
then hank5 video
check out around :47 sec in
that's how he hit 755
5'11" 180 pounds NO JUICE
If only Jr. could have got to him...

[LAball]

Just because it looks like palm up and palm down at contact dont mean the wrist arent being rolled. A push up and a bench press look like the same movements, but muscle initiation is different.

[collegeStar]

LA-don't complicate it---JJA was certain that these students were rolling over before/at contact and AT THOSE POINTS IN TIME they are not rolled over..

Geeez----if it is such a problem where is all the video of players rolling over---

Hell Hank Aaron tried to roll his wrists thru contact and he still didn't roll over at contact..

Although I'd say he does start to roll and is LESS Palm up/Palm down than those kids....

Therefore Aaron has MORE "roll" happening and is in a worse position with the hands than those kids according to the Palm up/Palm down crowd...

[FiveFrameSwing]

[JJA]

collegeStar,

I went to that site you mentioned as a guest. When I noticed Schenck was labeled "God", had 40% of all the posts, almost every topic was called "PCR" or "Englishbey", and these topics were unmoderated rants about everything Englishbey, I decided I had better places to spend my time. But thanks for the offer. It's safe to say I have more clips of Aaron than anyone so I understand his swing very well.

OK, I'll go through this once as this topic is starting to bore me. Take a look at the extension position of A-Rod.



This is THE key position Lau tries to get his students into. He wants the bottom hand under the top hand until basically full extension with the bottom hand and the bat almost collinear. As Jake pointed out before, even Lau acknowledges that the wrists roll, but he doesn't want them to start to roll until this position. If one of his students rolls much before this, he considers the swing to be top hand dominant. The two young players are classic examples of what he sees as top hand dominance.

Lau believes that this lead arm extension is the key position to strive for in the modern era. Indeed, many of today's great sluggers get into a similar position (Manny, Pujols, etc.). This of course was the legacy from his dad, who first started working on lead arm extension in the early 80's. Of course this is not the same swing that Aaron, Mantle, Gehrig, and many other Hall of Famers had, but he believes that the modern era with the lower strike zone requires a somewhat different swing than that of yesteryear. And he most definitely believes that it is no coincidence that so many of the top home run hitters take their top hand off the bat. He believes that lead arm extension does work, and that's what he teaches.

Lau understands better than anyone that not everyone agrees. He has fought that battle since the days of his father. But he could care less. He believes in it and teaches it. And there is NO question that Lau hitters look like A-Rod when they're done with his program. Not everyone likes A-Rod's swing, which is fine, and if you don't like it Lau is definitely not for you. He definitely does not teach Hank Aaron's swing, even though much of his dad's book The Art of Hitting 0.300 was very much based on the personal observations of Lau Sr from watching Aaron.

Lastly, there is no argument to win or lose here. It's simply a different way of looking at the swing. You don't look at it this way, but Lau does. If you don't look reasonably close to A-Rod in that extension position (like those young players), then he considers you to have a top hand dominant swing. That's the way he views it. And no one with common sense can say that those two young players look anything like A-Rod at that extension position.

-JJA

[collegeStar]

man you're fast--how do yall do that???

[collegeStar]

man you're fast--how do yall do that???

[collegeStar]

And no one with common sense can say that those two young players look anything like A-Rod at that extension position.

I agree w/ that other than they are ALL PU/PD at contact!!!!!

BTW-thanks for the reply ...I like a lot of Lau esp the lower half

I decided I had better places to spend my time.

agree--I don't participate in the group think and don't post there....

[FiveFrameSwing]

JJA .... enjoyed the posts.

[soceric]

This is not in dispute. He wrote that the top hand was the power hand and because he was a right handed thrower he suggested he would have been better right handed. True.

What makes you think he was bottommh and dominant? I don't see it in his stroke; or hear it in his words.

TW was brilliant in his mental aspects; they were from the ultimate experience. But his "science" and mechanics are suspect.

By bottom arm dominant, I meant it as more a definition than anything. Basically he's a right hander hitting left handed. There is no doubt that Ted's top hand is working. From his lament, It's pretty clear he thought he could have been better had he had the benefit of having his dominant arm on top.

[songtitle]

The fact that the girl hits the top of the ball and moves her bat up has nothing to do with top hand dominance..It is a strength issue---I'd say the 6'4" jucied up A rod is a bit stronger...

Strength has absolutely nothing to do with this.

It's 100% technique.