Is Rolling the Wrists Actually a Problem?

[Chris O'Leary]

Lots of people I encounter seem fixated on solving the problem of rolling the wrists too soon or too late. It also seems that products like the Insider Bat were originally designed to solve this problem.

However, I question whether the wrists is really a problem, or if the problems it (supposedly) causes aren't actually symptoms of other problem.

What problems are rolling the wrists too soon or too late supposed to cause?

I'd be interested in other people's thoughts about this.

[FiveFrameSwing]

IMO the Insider Bat is a decent product.

If one is having a difficult time making square contact with this bat, then it is likely that there is something mechanically deficient in their swing. The IB, IMO, helps find swing flaws and it can be used to help promote a good swing.

If one uses reasonably sound swing mechanics, then they can routinely hit line-drives with the Insider Bat. For example, a swing in which the student allows the ball to get deep, uses a top forearm swivel to contact (which the bat appears to promote), with a connected swing (one group may prefer to think of a “triangle”, another “maintaining the angle in the lead arm”, another a “box”, etc. … but the avoidance of disconnection … or some [I believe Epstein] seem to refer to this as “staying inside the ball”), and performs a timely thrust (some may focus on rotation) … then it seems to workout just fine.

It’s easy to go wrong … and hence it’s easy to find a flaw with this bat.

As for the concept of premature wrist rollover, this is a topic (at least in my opinion) that Mankin did a decent job of describing. The fix is often not to be found in making an adjustment to the top hand/forearm (i.e., not in recommending a multi-step swing where one attempts to push a palm-up position to extension), but often in the lead-arm (which permits the top hand/forearm to undergo a one-piece swing that begins by supination/swivel and transitions to pronation at/after contact). Mankin documented the importance of the lead-arm wrt to top-hand premature wrist rollover in his DVD.

You’ll see some batters in the on-deck circle working on getting the feel of the proper amount of wrist tension … something Yeager promotes and teaches in his DVDs.

[Chris O'Leary]

IMO the Insider Bat is a decent product.

If one is having a difficult time making square contact with this bat, then it is likely that there is something mechanically deficient in their swing. The IB, IMO, helps find swing flaws and it can be used to help promote a good swing.

Wouldn't the Sweet Spot Bat...



...be just as effective?

I'm not sure the flat bat face is necessary.

P.S. I have thought about picking up a Sweet Spot Bat multiple times.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Chris, IMO the Sweet Spot Bat would not be as effective. IMO the Insider Bat is much more revealing in terms of exposing swing flaws. IMO it forces the student to do more things correctly in order for them to use the instrument to routinely hit line-drives. As an example, you can disconnect and hit the ball out front with the Sweet Spot Bat ... but if do that with the Insider Bat then you'll quickly receive feedback that you are doing something wrong.

It can be a frustrating product to use at first, since it isn't very forgiving ... and that, IMO, is where much of the value is.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Here's Sparky Parker, an Epstein certified instructor who added a "weight shift" to Epstein's teachings, discussing the Insider Bat.

Sparky doesn't recommend a lot of products ... but he recommends this product.

Insider Bat

[ralanprod]

With the IB, there is no way to hide rolling of the wrists. With the way the grip is designed, if you roll your wrists early, it's not possible to hit a ball squarely. You can still get away with wrist rolling with the Sweet Spot.

The necessity can be up for debate, however if this is a specific flaw that you feel needs to be addressed - the IB can be useful.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Ralanprod ... good observation.

IMO, correcting premature wrist rollover is relatively simple.

The Insider Bat will expose this weakness, as well as other weaknesses.

A decent instructor will quickly detect why a student isn't making square contact with the Insider Bat and offer corrections.

[Chris O'Leary]

With the IB, there is no way to hide rolling of the wrists. With the way the grip is designed, if you roll your wrists early, it's not possible to hit a ball squarely. You can still get away with wrist rolling with the Sweet Spot.

The necessity can be up for debate, however if this is a specific flaw that you feel needs to be addressed - the IB can be useful.

I'm not sure that rolling the wrists is that big of a deal, given that a baseball bat is round. What's the problem with rolling the wrists a bit early or late, unless it changes the trajectory of the bat head. It's not like cricket or golf where you're striking the ball with a flat surface and thus rolling the wrists is an issue.

[Chris O'Leary]

IMO, correcting premature wrist rollover is relatively simple.

But why does it need to be fixed? What problems does it cause?

[FiveFrameSwing]

Chris, there are multiple ways to look at it.

Quite simply, premature rolling of the wrists will impact one’s ability to routinely square the ball … which IMO should be the ultimate objective.

When you are dealing with someone that routinely rolls over their wrists prematurely, you'll be able to use video to capture balls that appear to be perfectly centered, yet the result will be undesirable ... what should have been "square contact" ends up not being "square contact". In other words ... the student looks to have done virtually everything right, yet they screwed up.

Let’s think of it another way that you may better relate to. If a student is prematurely rolling over their wrists then they likely have an inappropriate trajectory or swing plane (I’m trying to use something here that you might relate to). For example, a common cause of premature rollover is having the lead elbow start breaking down too soon.

Lau Jr. considers premature wrist rollover as one of the biggest swing flaws. He makes no bones about it … it is something to be cleaned up.

[skipper5]

Wrist-roller prior to contact causes the bat-head to ride up. That's a problem.
The wrists are the immediate site of the problem, but the cause exists elsewhere.
[IOW, the batter doesn't need to re-train his wrists.]

It can happen when one (or more, in combination) of the following occur prior to contact--
In no particular order:

1. inadequate (or non-existent) opening of the hips--typical of young batters.

2. an overly choked grip

3. a lead arm that collapses against the batters side

4. out in front of the pitch

5. swinging around the ball

6. a severe down-swing

Probably forgot something.

[FiveFrameSwing]

Good summary Skipper ... I also seem to recall a relationship to one's posture.

[Eagle]

Science of Hitting

I'm not sure that rolling the wrists is that big of a deal, given that a baseball bat is round. What's the problem with rolling the wrists a bit early or late, unless it changes the trajectory of the bat head. It's not like cricket or golf where you're striking the ball with a flat surface and thus rolling the wrists is an issue.

" When you get over the plate before the wrists roll, stop and have anohter player apply pressure to the end of the bat from the direction of the pitcher. Check the amount of rsistance you can give him.Then roll your wrists and let him apply pressure again. If you can resist as well in that position you are the rare exception. (I don't happen to believe there is an exception.) The unbroken wrist is a much stronger position."

Page 59 of the 1986 edition.

[mudvnine]

Wouldn't the Sweet Spot Bat...



...be just as effective?

I'm not sure the flat bat face is necessary.

P.S. I have thought about picking up a Sweet Spot Bat multiple times.

We have both and don't use the Sweet Spot Bat anymore . . . the Insider Bat has that "trigger" like grip in the handle that helps align the hands and makes the hitter turn his hands early to get the flat face square to the ball.

Nothing wrong with the Sweet Spot Bat, it's just that the Insider is a bit more precise on what it is we are trying to accomplish . . .


Chris, if you're interested, the Sweet Spot Bat I have is an older 30" one (ok shape), that if you PM me a mailing address and I'll send it out to you free of charge if it's not too small and if you would like to try one before you purchase . . . we just don't use it and therefore, I have no need for it any longer . . . hate to see it sit if someone else could use it. Mud

[Ifubuildit]

Chris

Skipper and Eagle hit the nail on the head. Premature rolling of the wrist prior to contact will cause the bat barrel to raise and you will not make solid contact with the ball. As suggested by FFS.

You will be in a much stronger and powerful position if you do not roll the wrist. If you where chopping a tree or log would you roll your wrist prior to contact? No you wouldnt because to do so would sprain the wrist. Much weaker position. The same applies to the contact position with the ball.

Now here is another one you can play with. Open the thumb and forefinger up before you swing and see what happens when you do. Let me know what you discover.

Dana.