Is Rolling the Wrists Actually a Problem?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • BoardMember
    SeekingTruth
    • Feb 2007
    • 2700

    #31
    I can see/understand several reasons why premature roll causes sub-optimal results....

    1.) you can't roll unless you've prematurely released.......
    2.) force application is minimized when the wrists are place in a compromised position for that application.....
    3.) if the bat is not released prior to the roll the bat head will deflect based on the compound angles at work.
    4.) roll is a byproduct of extension.....not a cause.........

    I could go on but why bother.......enough is enough........

    Comment

    • Chris O'Leary
      Student of the game.
      • Apr 2006
      • 9783

      #32
      Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
      Lau Jr:
      “The Insider Bat is a truly innovative hitting aid that identifies and eliminates the most common flaws in any hitter’s swing, from little leaguers to professionals.

      I immediately identified how the Insider Bat directly translates the Lau hitting philosophy to the student with little coaching. In my opinion there is not a more simple and complete hitting aid in respect to proper hand path/position than the Insider Bat.”


      Insider Bat - followup link
      I know Charley's a big believer in Palm Up, Palm Down at the POC, but do you have any photos or video that you can post of someone who's not PUPD at the POC who wasn't horribly fooled?
      Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

      Comment

      • FiveFrameSwing
        Registered User
        • Jun 2006
        • 6031

        #33
        Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
        So I happened to have this clip already processed and in my files.



        What I see is him topping a ball and driving it into the ground, probably because his habit was to try to pull outside pitches and good pitchers knew it and ate him alive as a result, but I don't see a problem with the wrists rolling early.

        In fact, I would think it would be quite hard to roll the wrists early on an outside pitch.

        P.S. I'm not picking on you. I'm just wondering if the conventional wisdom is wrong. I'll look at more clips in my library and see what I see.

        P.P.S. Notice the sine wave in the bat, which reinforces some of Alan Nathan's contentions about resonance and hitting.

        You're not picking on me?

        That's good ... because you are also not making a lot of sense.

        This, IMO, is not an example of premature wrist rollover.

        Please ... stay on track ... or if you need to change the topic then start another thread.

        There are many reasons that one could drive the ball into the ground.

        Please ... stick to your original topic.

        Comment

        • Chris O'Leary
          Student of the game.
          • Apr 2006
          • 9783

          #34
          Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
          You're not picking on me?

          That's good ... because you are also not making a lot of sense.

          This, IMO, is not an example of premature wrist rollover.

          Please ... stay on track ... or if you need to change the topic then start another thread.
          I'm not changing the subject, I'm just saying I have yet to ever see visual evidence of this problem, which makes me wonder if it's being misdiagnosed.

          I look through my video library later tonight.
          Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

          Comment

          • FiveFrameSwing
            Registered User
            • Jun 2006
            • 6031

            #35
            Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
            I know Charley's a big believer in Palm Up, Palm Down at the POC, but do you have any photos or video that you can post of someone who's not PUPD at the POC who wasn't horribly fooled?
            Chris, I'm not at liberty to share the video of students that I've worked with.

            All this discussion is unnecessary. Premature wrist rollover is an easy issue to address. If you see it in a student's swing, then why not make that one of their "points of emphasis" for a lesson and put the issue to bed?

            Comment

            • FiveFrameSwing
              Registered User
              • Jun 2006
              • 6031

              #36
              Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
              I'm not changing the subject, I'm just saying I have yet to ever see visual evidence of this problem, which makes me wonder if it's being misdiagnosed.

              I look through my video library later tonight.
              I haven't seen it in the videos of professionals ... but I have seen it in amateurs. To me it's easy enough to detect with the naked eye. With video I've been able to show students that they appeared to be successful in centering the bat on the ball, yet drove the ball into the ground.

              I guess I don't understand. If you work with enough kids you'll see this issue ... and with experience you know that it doesn't take a lot of time to address.

              I guess what I'm hearing is that you are not at the point where you can detect it or not.

              Not an issue. We've all been at that point.

              Post a video of the kid, or Email it to me, and I'll comment on it.

              I believe you have my Email address from the time I sent you the Epstein material.

              Comment

              • FiveFrameSwing
                Registered User
                • Jun 2006
                • 6031

                #37
                Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                What's the logic of the 45 degree angle? Doesn't that mean you should pull hook everything if you are swinging well? Also, due to the lighter mass you aren't going to get the double pendulum effect and the whip.
                I believe this is the feature that promotes a “connected” swing (i.e., “staying inside the ball” … as in Insider Bat).
                Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 10-13-2009, 06:32 PM.

                Comment

                • kylebee
                  Owner: Driveline Baseball
                  • Dec 2006
                  • 1590

                  #38
                  From a purely kinesiological standpoint, rolling the wrists prior to contact is an inefficient force transmitter and will cause significant loss in force transmitted to the ball. Though the wrists and hands themselves contribute very little power in the swing, they are the final link in the chain that delivers all the accumulated force from the kinetic link built up from the ground, transmitted proximal to distal, largest segments to smallest.

                  This would seem to indicate that it is a significant problem.
                  Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

                  Comment

                  • Chris O'Leary
                    Student of the game.
                    • Apr 2006
                    • 9783

                    #39
                    Originally posted by kylebee View Post
                    From a purely kinesiological standpoint, rolling the wrists prior to contact is an inefficient force transmitter and will cause significant loss in force transmitted to the ball. Though the wrists and hands themselves contribute very little power in the swing, they are the final link in the chain that delivers all the accumulated force from the kinetic link built up from the ground, transmitted proximal to distal, largest segments to smallest.

                    This would seem to indicate that it is a significant problem.
                    This all makes sense in theory, but what I'm looking for is a single picture or video clip that shows that it's actually a problem.
                    Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                    Comment

                    • kylebee
                      Owner: Driveline Baseball
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 1590

                      #40
                      Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                      This all makes sense in theory, but what I'm looking for is a single picture or video clip that shows that it's actually a problem.
                      It happens all the time with amateur hitters. You don't get far when you have this problem. This is why you don't see it.
                      Owner of Driveline Baseball - Seattle, WA

                      Comment

                      • Chris O'Leary
                        Student of the game.
                        • Apr 2006
                        • 9783

                        #41
                        Originally posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
                        With video I've been able to show students that they appeared to be successful in centering the bat on the ball, yet drove the ball into the ground.
                        How can you center the ball but drive it into the ground, unless you hit it very early on in the swing (on the way down, before the swing bottoms out)?
                        Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                        Comment

                        • Chris O'Leary
                          Student of the game.
                          • Apr 2006
                          • 9783

                          #42
                          Is this an example of the wrists rolling too early?



                          He pounds this ball into the ground (to 3B), probably because he tried to pull an outside pitch.
                          Last edited by Chris O'Leary; 10-13-2009, 08:03 PM.
                          Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                          Comment

                          • FiveFrameSwing
                            Registered User
                            • Jun 2006
                            • 6031

                            #43
                            Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                            Is this an example of the wrists rolling too early?



                            He pounds this ball into the ground (to 3B), probably because he tried to pull an outside pitch.
                            No Chris. I think you should listen to Kylebee. You aren't going to see this issue at the professional level. You'll need to look elsewhere for the clips.

                            Comment

                            • Chris O'Leary
                              Student of the game.
                              • Apr 2006
                              • 9783

                              #44
                              Originally posted by kylebee View Post
                              It happens all the time with amateur hitters. You don't get far when you have this problem. This is why you don't see it.
                              Alright.

                              Let me look at some of my youth footage.

                              P.S. I will say that I wonder if some of this is a strength thing that is hard to fix, except with age.
                              Obsessed with Pitching Mechanics.

                              Comment

                              • FiveFrameSwing
                                Registered User
                                • Jun 2006
                                • 6031

                                #45
                                Originally posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
                                Alright.

                                Let me look at some of my youth footage.

                                P.S. I will say that I wonder if some of this is a strength thing that is hard to fix, except with age.
                                Gosh darn it Chris ... it's SIMPLE to fix.

                                Comment

                                Ad Widget

                                Collapse
                                Working...
                                X