Peter Gammons: "Mariano Rivera is the best player in baseball the last 14 years"

[Blackout]

i heard him say that on the radio, explaining that "getting the 27th out" is the hardest thing to do



does anyone agree with his opinion?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

No. Gammonds always says silly things. Marinao Rivera have been close to ever being the best player in baseball.

[Captain Cold Nose]

In terms of consistent excellence, that's not a stretch, although it's very, very selectively convenient considering the workload he puts in comparatively to players who have a more direct impact throughout the game.

[BSmile]

I love the Yankees.
I love and have huge respect for Mariano.
Hall Of Fame 1st ballot...yup.
Best player in the past 14 years?
No.
I gotta go Pujols here.
Sorry.....

[RationalNYYfan]

I would argue that it's more difficult as a batter to avoid being the 27th out than it is as a pitcher to try and get it.

[KCGHOST]

The Great Rivera is deserving of many accolades but this is a bridge too far.

[Joltin' Joe]

that "getting the 27th out" is the hardest thing to do

Maybe if you are the starting pitcher throwing a perfect game and the 27th out is Albert Pujols who has already seen you for 2 plate appearance.

A part time player coming in fresh in the 9th inning to face 3 hitter who could very well be the 7th, 8th, and the 9th hitter? Not even close.

Statement is an insult to starting pitchers.

[dgarza]

From 1995-2009

Mariano Rivera
202 ERA+
1,090 IPs

Barry Bonds
200 OPS+
13,558+ Innings

Albert Pujols
172 OPS+
8,658+ Innings

[EdTarbusz]

The most valuable player in history averaged about 73 IP per season over the last 15 years? That seems like low total to me.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Not the best over that time span because of the shorter workload, but clearly the best relief pitcher in baseball history. Unlike other relief aces, Rivera can still be more than a 1 inning guy, as evidenced by his perfect 2 1/3 innings against the Angels the other night.

I will say that the gravity (importance) of the situations he's put into warrants extra consideration for excellence, although it cannot be comparable to a standardized workload of 9 innings/game a position player plays; although in some individual games his impact is equal to or greater than the best position player of that game.

[gman5431]

Are you kidding me. He prolly wouldnt be in my top 100 of players in the last 14 years. I can name a few players on his own team i would take before him....

G Man

[Eastvanmungo]

Best Relief Pitcher: Yes
Best Pitcher: I'd put him in the Top 5-ish
Best Player: Top 20, at best.

[mwiggins]

I can see it. Notice he said "best", not "most valuable". And he said "last 14 years". Who was a better player over that 14 year span (1996-2009)? Note the obvious choices - Pujols and Bonds - did not play in the majors that entire 14 year span, so depending on how you look at it, they wouldn't be in the conversation.

Rivera's case mostly revolves around a record of consistent post-season dominance that nobody else can match, and the fact that he's head and shoulders above everyone else who's ever played his position before.

A-Rod was certainly a far more valuable player during that 14 year span, but was he a "better" baseball player than Rivera?

What Gammons said is similar, IMO, to someone claiming Jerry Rice was a better football player than Jim Kelly. Kelly was far more valuable, because he had the talent to play a far more important position at a high level, but most would agree Rice was the better football player.

Of course, to make that argument, you have to consider "closer" to be an actual position, not just a pitcher who wasn't good enough to start. That's another argument.

[davewashere]

He's probably the greatest reliever of all time, but if I were to make a draft order for players of the past 14 years, it would probably include ARod, Barry Bonds, Manny Ramirez, Derek Jeter, Vladimir Guerrero, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, Roy Halladay, Albert Pujols, and probably a handful of others before Mariano Rivera.

Closers do have to get some tough outs, but I think some "experts" are taking it too far and overvaluing them. Sure, not all starters could be good closers, but I think a lot of them would be if given the chance. They just don't get that chance, because they are more valuable to their team as a starter pitching 200+ innings a year. Look at a guy like Randy Johnson. When the Mariners put him in as a reliever on short rest multiple times at the end of the year in 1995 he was lights out, but they didn't decide to convert him to a closer the next season. Mariano, on the other hand, was a poor starter at the beginning of his career, and while his stuff is great for 1 or 2 innings, he lacks the variety to be a starter throwing 6-7 innings in a row every 5th day.

[White Knight]

I love the Yankees.
I love and have huge respect for Mariano.
Hall Of Fame 1st ballot...yup.
Best player in the past 14 years?
No.
I gotta go Pujols here.
Sorry.....

Unless you discount for PED's, Bonds was a lot better than Pujols. It's not even close really.

[bob]

Unless you discount for PED's, Bonds was a lot better than Pujols. It's not even close really.

If you take out 01-04 from Bonds, Pujols is a very good match for Bonds so far. Early Bonds had more speed and walked more, Pujols hits better for average and strikes out less. Pujols also was great right from day one. It wasnt until Bonds 5th season (1990) that he had his first great season.

[EricAnno]

The last 14 years?

I can think of at least 20 players off the top of my head who were better than Rivera. He's the best relief pitcher during that time span, obviously, and he might be the greatest relief pitcher of all-time. But there are at least 20 other players were better overall players than Rivera.

[Paul Wendt]

2887 ip, 129 era+ Maddux (missing his first 10 seasons)
2383 ip, 140 era+ Clemens (missing his first 12 seasons)

This guy loses several seasons but only one great one.
2456 ip, 134 era+ Schilling

[Los Bravos]

He probably should have written "most valuable" or "most important" or something of that nature.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

No. Gammonds always says silly things. Marinao Rivera have been close to ever being the best player in baseball.

he does

like saying the 1978 Yankee - Red Sox playoff game was the most important game in baseball history

lol

[dominik]

That he is the best player of the last 14 years is of course laughable.

He also is not the top pitcher of this period. Maybe a top ten pitcher which would be a great effort for a reliever.
Sure HOFer though.

[RuthMayBond]

he does

like saying the 1978 Yankee - Red Sox playoff game was the most important game in baseball history

lol

Yeah, Jackie Robinson's ML debut or 1960 WS game 7 were no Yankee-Red Sox regular season game

[White Knight]

Yeah, Jackie Robinson's ML debut or 1960 WS game 7 were no Yankee-Red Sox regular season game

Jackie Robinson's presence was highly important, but the game wasn't. And call it what you want, but game 163 is never a regular season game no matter what MLB calls it.

[RuthMayBond]

Jackie Robinson's presence was highly important, but the game wasn't.

Semantic gymnastics

<And call it what you want>

Actually, that sounds like what you are doing

<but game 163 is never a regular season game no matter what MLB calls it.>

OK, so a "first round playoff" game (if that makes you feel better) that did NOT have a walkoff ending is more important that a WS G 7.

[White Knight]

Semantic gymnastics

<And call it what you want>

Actually, that sounds like what you are doing

<but game 163 is never a regular season game no matter what MLB calls it.>

OK, so a "first round playoff" game (if that makes you feel better) that did NOT have a walkoff ending is more important that a WS G 7.

Of course it's not more important. I never said it was the most important ever, I just disputed that the actual game you listed above was important (the event was).