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Thread: 1959 Best of Baseball Election

  1. #1
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    1959 Best of Baseball Election

    This is our twenty-fourth election in this project. The entire rules follow.

    This election will run through 5:59:59 PM EST November 6, 2009.

    The prior election, and the ballots of the 1958 voters, are in this thread

    Please note the slight change in the close time for this election. I will be unable to do all I do on the project on that Saturday due to other commitments, and this slight advancement of time allows for that. Given that we have minimal last minute voting, it should not prove much of an inconvenience to anyone.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  2. #2
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    Rules

    1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

    2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

    3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

    4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.

    5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

    6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.

    7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.

    8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

    9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

    10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.

    11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

    12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

    13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.

    14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

    15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

    16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

    17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

    18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

    19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.

    20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.

    21) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  3. #3
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    The players who become eligible in 1959 are:

    Code:
    Brecheen , Harry
    DiMaggio , Joe
    Kinder , Ellis
    Nicholson , Bill
    Starffin , Victor
    Vander Meer , Johnny
    On the contributor side, we are adding Ford Frick and George Weiss
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  4. #4
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    The 1958 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:

    Code:
    Player…………	votes	pts
    Foster, Willie	11	65
    Flick , Elmer	9	52
    Hack, Stan	7	47
    Stovey , Harry	7	43
    Start , Joe	4	42
    Traynor , Pie	6	42
    Medwick, Joe	7	41
    Ruffing , Red	5	39
    McPhee , Bid	6	38
    Mackey, Biz	5	35
    Groh , Heinie	5	31
    Coveleski , S	5	28
    Terry , Bill	4	28
    Klein, Chuck	3	25
    Beckwith, John	5	24
    Carey , Max	2	21
    Gore , George	4	21
    Ferrell, Wes	3	18
    Grant , Frank	3	18
    Sutton , Ezra	5	17
    Thompson , S	2	17
    Galvin , Pud	3	15
    Bennett , C	3	13
    Joss , Addie	1	12
    Caruthers , B	1	10
    Berger , Wally	1	9
    Faber , Red	2	9
    Smith, Hilton	1	9
    Hill , Pete…..	1	8
    Maranville , R	2	8
    Dandridge, Ray	2	6
    Dean, Dizzy	1	6
    Glasscock , J	1	6
    McGinnity , Joe	2	6
    Averill, Earl	3	5
    Duffy , Hugh	2	5
    Jennings , H	1	5
    Sewell , Joe	1	5
    McCormick , J	2	4
    Roush , Edd 	1	3
    Wallace , Bobby	1	2
    The 1958 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:

    Code:
    Contributor……….	votes	pts
    MacPhail , La	9	23
    Spink, JGT	8	23
    Selee , Frank	8	19
    Huggins , M	7	18
    Taylor , C. I.	2	10
    Doubleday , A	2	8
    Wilkinson, JL	3	8
    Connolly , Tom	3	6
    Bolden, Ed	1	5
    Chance , Frank	1	5
    Shoriki, M	1	5
    Pearce, Dickey	1	4
    Caylor , O. P.	1	3
    Griffith , C	2	3
    Southworth, B	1	3
    Conlon , C	1	2
    I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  5. #5
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    Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.

    Players

    Code:
    Pete Alexander
    Cap Anson
    Luke Appling
    Frank Baker
    Ross Barnes
    Cool Papa Bell
    Dan Brouthers
    Mordecai Brown
    Ray Brown
    Jesse Burkett
    Oscar Charleston
    Fred Clarke
    John Clarkson
    Ty Cobb
    Mickey Cochrane
    Eddie Collins
    Jimmy Collins
    Roger Connor
    Sam Crawford
    Joe Cronin
    Bill Dahlen
    George Davis
    Ed Delahanty
    Bill Dickey
    Martin Dihigo
    Buck Ewing
    Jimmie Foxx
    Frankie Frisch
    Lou Gehrig
    Charlie Gehringer
    Josh Gibson
    Goose Goslin
    Hank Greenberg
    Lefty Grove
    Billy Hamilton
    Gabby Hartnett
    Harry Heilmann
    Billy Herman
    Paul Hines
    Rogers Hornsby
    Carl Hubbell
    Joe Jackson
    Grant "Home Run"Johnson
    Walter Johnson
    Tim Keefe
    Willie Keeler
    King Kelly
    Nap LaJoie
    Buck Leonard
    Pop Lloyd
    Ted Lyons
    Sherry Magee
    Christy Mathewson
    Johnny Mize
    Kid Nichols
    Jim O'Rourke
    Mel Ott
    Satchel Paige
    Eddie Plank
    Charlie Radbourn
    Bullet Joe Rogan
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth
    Louis Santop
    Al Simmons
    George Sisler
    Tris Speaker
    Turkey Stearnes
    Mule Suttles
    Cristobal Torriente
    Dazzy Vance
    Arky Vaughan
    Rube Waddell
    Honus Wagner
    Ed Walsh
    Paul Waner
    John M. Ward
    Willie Wells
    Zack Wheat
    Deacon White
    Smoky Joe Williams
    Jud Wilson
    George Wright
    Cy Young
    Contributors

    Code:
    Doc Adams
    Ed Barrow
    Alexander Cartwright
    Henry Chadwick
    Charlie Commiskey
    Jim Creighton
    Rube Foster
    Ned Hanlon
    William Hulbert
    Ban Johnson
    Bill Klem
    Kenesaw Landis
    Connie Mack
    Joe McCarthy
    John McGraw
    Cum Posey
    A. J. Reach
    Francis Richter
    Branch Rickey
    Al Spalding
    Alfred Spink
    Casey Stengel
    Harry Wright
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  6. #6
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    The complete list of eligible players:

    Code:
    Adams , Babe
    Adams , Sparky
    Allen , Johnny
    Altrock , Nick
    Archer , Jimmy
    Arlett , Buzz
    Austin , Jimmy
    Averill , Earl
    Bancroft , Dave
    Barry , Jack
    Bartell , Dick
    Battin , Joe
    Beaumont , Ginger
    Beckley , Jake
    Beckwith , John
    Bender , Chief
    Bennett , Charlie
    Benton , Larry
    Berg , Moe
    Bergen , Marty
    Berger , Wally
    Berry , Charlie
    Bigbee , Carson
    Bishop , Max
    Blades , Ray
    Blue , Lu
    Bluege , Ossie
    Bodie , Ping
    Boley , Joe
    Bond , Tommy
    Bottomley , Jim
    Bradley , Bill
    Brecheen , Harry
    Breitenstein , Ted
    Bresnahan , Roger
    Bridges , Tommy
    Browning , Pete
    Burns , George J.
    Bush  , Joe
    Bush , Donie
    Bush , Guy
    Cadore , Leon
    Camilli , Dolph
    Camnitz , Howie
    Carey , Max
    Carrigan , Bill
    Caruthers , Bob 
    Cepeda , Perucho
    Chance , Frank
    Chandler , Spud
    Chapman , Ben
    Chapman , Ray
    Chase , Hal
    Chesbro , Jack
    Childs , Cupid
    Cicotte , Eddie
    Cissell , Bill
    Clark , Watty
    Clarkson , Bus
    Coakley , Andy
    Collins , Shano
    Combs , Earle
    Conroy , Wid
    Coombs , Jack
    Cooper , Andy
    Cooper , Mort
    Cooper , Wilbur
    Coveleski , Stan
    Crandall , Doc
    Cravath , Gavvy
    Creighton , Jim
    Criger , Lou
    Critz , Hughie
    Cross , Lave
    Crowder , Al 
    Cruise , Walt
    Cuccinello , Tony
    Cummings , Candy
    Cuyler , Kiki
    Dandridge , Ray
    Danning , Harry
    Daubert , Jake
    Davis , Curt
    Davis , Harry
    Davis , Spud
    Dean, Dizzy
    Derringer , Paul
    DiMaggio , Joe
    Dinneen , Bill
    Doak , Bill
    Donlin , Mike
    Donovan , Bill
    Dooin , Red
    Doyle , Jack 
    Doyle , Larry
    Duffy , Hugh
    Dugan , Joe
    Dunlap , Fred
    Dykes , Jimmy
    Earnshaw , George
    Ehmke , Howard
    Elberfeld , Kid
    Elliott , Jumbo
    Ens , Jewel
    Evers , Johnny
    Faber , Red
    Falkenberg , Cy
    Ferrell , Rick
    Ferrell , Wes
    Fitzsimmons , Freddie
    Fletcher , Art
    Flick , Elmer
    Fonseca , Lew
    Foster , Eddie
    Foster , Willie
    Fraser , Chick
    Galan , Augie
    Galvin , Pud
    Gelbert , Charlie
    Glasscock , Jack
    Gleason , Kid
    Gomez , Lefty
    Gonzalez , Mike
    Gore , George
    Gowdy , Hank
    Grant , Eddie
    Grant , Frank
    Grantham , George
    Griffith , Clark
    Grimes , Burleigh
    Grimm , Charlie
    Groh , Heinie
    Haas , Mule
    Hack , Stan
    Hafey , Chick
    Hahn , Noodles
    Haines , Jesse
    Hallahan , Bill
    Harder , Mel
    Hargrave , Bubbles
    Harris , Bucky
    Harris , Vic
    Henrich , Tommy
    Herman , Babe
    Herzog , Buck 
    Higgins , Mike
    Hill , Pete
    Hinchman , Bill
    Hooper , Harry
    Hoyt , Waite
    Huggins , Miller
    Irwin , Charlie
    Jackman , Will
    Jennings , Hughie
    Johnson , Bob
    Johnson , Judy
    Jones , Charley
    Jones , Fielder
    Jones , Sam P.
    Jordan , Tim
    Joss , Addie
    Judge , Joe
    Jurges , Billy
    Kamm , Willie
    Kawakami , Tetsuharu
    Kelley , Joe
    Kerr , Dickie
    Killefer , Bill
    Kilroy , Matt
    Kinder , Ellis
    Klein , Chuck
    Kling , Johnny
    Knabe , Otto
    Kremer , Ray
    Kress , Red
    Kuhel , Joe
    Lange , Bill
    Larkin , Henry
    Latham , Arlie
    Lavagetto , Cookie
    Lazzeri , Tony
    Leach , Freddy
    Leach , Tommy
    Lee , Bill
    Leever , Sam
    Leonard , Emil (Dutch)
    Lewis , Duffy
    Lindstrom , Freddie
    Lobert , Hans
    Lombardi , Ernie
    Long , Herman
    Lopez , Al
    Lowe , Bobby
    Lucas , Red
    Lundy , Dick
    Luque , Dolf
    Lyons , Denny
    Mackey , Biz
    Mancuso , Gus
    Manush , Heinie
    Maranville , Rabbit
    Marberry , Firpo
    Marquard , Rube
    Martin , Pepper
    Mathews , Bobby
    Mays , Carl
    McAleer , Jimmy
    McCarthy , Tommy
    McCormick , Frank
    McCormick , Jim
    McGinnity , Joe
    McGowan , Bill
    McInnis , Stuffy
    McLean , Larry
    McManus , Marty
    McPhee , Bid
    McVey , Cal
    Meadows , Lee
    Medwick , Joe
    Mendez , Jose
    Meusel , Bob
    Milan , Clyde
    Miller , Bing
    Miller , Dots
    Miller , Hack
    Monroe , Bill
    Moore , Dobie
    Moore , Jo-Jo
    Moore , Terry
    Moran , Pat
    Mostil , Johnny
    Mulcahy , Hugh
    Mullane , Tony
    Mungo , Van
    Murphy , Danny
    Murray , Red
    Myer , Buddy
    Nehf , Art
    Newsom , Bobo
    Nicholson , Bill
    O'Doul , Lefty
    Oeschger , Joe
    O'Farrell , Bob
    O'Leary , Charlie
    Oms , Alejandro
    O'Neill , Buck
    O'Neill , Steve
    O'Neill , Tip
    Orr , Dave
    Pabor , Charlie
    Paskert , Dode
    Pearce , Dickey
    Pearson , Monte
    Peckinpaugh , Roger
    Peitz , Heinie
    Pennock , Herb
    Perdue , Hub
    Perkins , Cy
    Phillippe , Deacon 
    Pike , Lip
    Pipp , Wally
    Poles , Spotswood
    Pruett , Hub
    Quinn , Jack
    Raymond , Bugs
    Redding , Dick
    Remsen , Jack
    Rice , Sam
    Richardson , Hardy
    Ring , Jimmy
    Ritchey , Claude
    Rixey , Eppa
    Robertson , Dave
    Rolfe , Red
    Rommel , Eddie
    Root , Charlie
    Roush , Edd 
    Rucker , Nap
    Rudolph , Dick
    Ruel , Muddy
    Ruffing , Red
    Ryan  , Jimmy
    Schacht , Al
    Schaefer , Germany
    Schalk , Ray
    Schang , Wally
    Schreckengost , Ossie
    Schulte , Frank
    Scott , Everett
    Scott , Jack
    Selkirk , George
    Severeid , Hank
    Sewell , Joe
    Sewell , Luke
    Sewell , Rip
    Seymour , Cy
    Sheckard , Jimmy
    Sherdel , Bill
    Shocker , Urban
    Smith , Earl
    Smith , Hilton
    Smith , Sherry
    Sparks , Tully
    Stahl , Jake
    Starffin , Victor
    Start , Joe
    Steinfeldt , Harry
    Stephenson , Riggs
    Stovey , Harry
    Street , Gabby
    Suhr , Gus
    Sukeforth , Clyde
    Sutton , Ezra
    Sweeney , Bill
    Tannehill , Jesse
    Taylor , Ben
    Tebbetts , Birdie
    Tenney , Fred
    Terry , Bill
    Thevenow , Tommy
    Thomas , Ira
    Thompson , Sam
    Tiernan , Mike
    Tinker , Joe
    Tobin , Jim
    Toney , Fred
    Traynor , Pie
    Trouppe , Quincy
    Turner , Terry
    Uhle , George
    Van Haltren , George
    Vander Meer , Johnny
    Veach , Bobby
    Walberg , Rube
    Wallace , Bobby
    Walters , Bucky
    Wambsganss , Bill
    Waner , Lloyd
    Warfield , Frank
    Warneke , Lon
    Welch , Mickey
    Werber , Billy
    West , Sam
    White , Sol
    White , Will 
    Whitehill , Earl
    Williams , Cy
    Williams , Ken
    Williamson , Ned
    Willis , Vic
    Wilson , Hack
    Wilson , Jimmie
    Witt , Whitey
    Wood , Joe
    Wright , Glenn
    Wyatt , Whit 
    Yerkes , Steve
    York , Rudy
    Young , Pep
    Youngs , Ross
    Zachary , Tom
    Zimmer , Chief
    The complete list of eligible contributors:

    Code:
    Abe , Iso
    Bancroft , Frank
    Bolden, Ed
    Bulkely , Morgan
    Cambria , Joe
    Carrigan, Bill
    Caylor , O. P.
    Chance , Frank
    Conlon , Charles
    Connolly , Tom
    Cooper , Andy
    Cummings , Candy
    Dinneen , Bill
    Doubleday , Abner
    Dreyfuss , Barney
    Dunn , Jack
    Elias , Al Munro
    Evans, Billy
    Foster , John B.
    Frick, Ford
    Fullerton , Hugh
    Gleason , Kid
    Gonzalez , Mike
    Greenlee, Gus
    Griffith , Clark
    Harridge, Willie
    Hillerich , John
    Huggins , Miller
    Jennings , Hughie
    Krichell, Paul
    Lardner , Ring
    Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W.
    Luque , Dolf
    MacPhail , Larry
    McCarthy , Tommy
    McKechnie, Bill
    Mendez , Jose
    Mills , A. G.
    Moran , Pat
    Mutrie , Jim
    Navin , Frank
    Norworth, Jack
    O'Neill, Steve
    Osborn , Frank
    Pasquel, Jorge
    Pompez , Alex 
    Rice, Grantland
    Robinson , Wilbert
    Ruppert , Jacob
    Selee , Frank
    Shibe , Ben
    Shoriki, Matsutaro
    Southworth, Billy
    Spink, J. G. Taylor
    Stallings , George
    Street, Gabby
    Taylor , C. I.
    Thayer , Ernest
    Tyson, Ty
    Warfield , Frank
    Weiss, George
    White , Sol
    Wilkinson , J. L. 
    Wilson , Horace
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  7. #7
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    My ballot:

    Players
    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Red Ruffing
    3. Willie Foster
    4. Stan Hack
    5. Harry Stovey
    6. John Beckwith
    7. Joe Medwick
    8. Joe McGinnity
    9. Biz Mackey
    10. Elmer Flick
    11. Victor Starffin
    12. Pud Galvin

    Contributors
    1. J. G. Taylor Spink
    2. Miller Huggins
    3. Frank Selee
    4. Larry MacPhail
    5. J. L. Wilkinson

    J. L. Wilkinson, after a long hiatus, rejoins my contributor ballot. Joe DiMaggio deserves the #1 slot, and I cannot ignore Victor Starffin, about whom I will say more later. I see Pud Galvin has picked up some support, so he too will rejoin my ballot.
    Last edited by jalbright; 10-24-2009 at 09:30 AM.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    New York
    Posts
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    I believe you posted your ballot from 1958, Mr. Albright.

    01. Joe DiMaggio
    02. Heinie Groh
    03. Harry Stovey
    04. Wally Berger
    05. Willie Foster
    06. Joe Medwick
    07. Stan Hack
    08. Wes Ferrell
    09. John Beckwith
    10. Biz Mackey
    11. Victor Starffin
    12. Rabbit Maranville

    01. C.I. Taylor
    02. Miller Huggins
    03. J.G. Taylor Spink
    04. Larry MacPhail
    05. Frank Selee

  9. #9
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    Mar 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Domenic View Post
    I believe you posted your ballot from 1958, Mr. Albright.
    I realized it quickly, but there was an overlap in my correcting it and your post. Thanks, though.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  10. #10
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    Mar 2005
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    Victor Starffin

    Won 2 MVPs and a Best Nine (best at his position in his league), though the latter award wasn't given during many of his best years. He's the Japanese career leader in shutouts with 83. He led his league in wins six times, winning percentage once, ERA once and strikeouts twice. He had six years with 26 or more wins, one with 38 and one with the record (shared with Inao) at 42 wins. He once had an 18 game winning streak. He was in the top four in ERA every year from 1937 to 1942. He won a pitching Triple Crown in the 1938 Fall campaign (they had fall and spring campaigns that year). On a career level, he was 6th in wins, 2nd in complete games, 7th in IP, 5th in ERA, and 8th in winning percentage.

    His record is as follows:
    Code:
    G	IP	W	L	CG	shO	K	ERA
    586	4175.1	303	176	350	83	1960	2.09
    I rank him as the second best pitcher ever in Japanese baseball history, and its sixth best player. I also see him as the best player in Japanese professional ball from its start in 1936 through 1949. He makes Bill McNeil's all-Japan team in his book Baseball's Other Stars.

    My conversion of his stats to major league levels is difficult, as the majority of his pitching was done in Japan's deadball era (before 1945). Even so, with a number of Japanese pitchers I rank below him clearly demonstrating Hall of Fame talent in my opinion, I think he belongs. The prime examples of Japanese pitchers I rank below him showing HOF talent are: Kazuhisa Inao, Akira Bessho, Masaaki Koyama and Yutaka Enatsu. Personally, I think two of the best comparisons for him are HOF pitchers Burleigh Grimes and Charlie (Old Hoss) Radbourn.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  11. #11
    Players

    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Joe Medwick
    3. Sam Thompson
    4. Chuck Klein
    5. Harry Stovey
    6. Bill Terry
    7. Hugh Duffy
    8. Pud Galvin
    9. Jim McCormick
    10. Elmer Flick
    11. Pete Browning
    12. Joe McGinnity


    Contributors

    1. Larry MacPhail
    2. Abner Doubleday
    3. Miller Huggins
    4. George Weiss
    5. Ford Frick

    Temporarily dropping Charles Conlon for now.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Magrathea
    Posts
    5,756
    Blog Entries
    2
    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Max Carey
    3. Willie Foster
    4. Elmer Flick
    5. John Beckwith
    6. Harry Stovey
    7. Joe Medwick
    8. Stan Hack
    9. Bid McPhee
    10. Earl Averill
    11. Biz Mackey
    12. Pie Traynor

    1. J. G. Taylor Spink
    2. Larry MacPhail
    3. Frank Selee
    4. Miller Huggins
    5. C. I. Taylor
    Last edited by AstrosFan; 10-24-2009 at 04:10 PM.

  13. #13
    Houston,
    Do you read the results of the last election?
    Houston,
    Do you read me?
    Over and out.
    ;-)

  14. #14
    Players:

    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Stan Hack
    3. Joe Start
    4. Red Ruffing
    5. Charlie Bennett
    6. Rabbit Maranville
    7. Pie Traynor
    8. Bid McPhee
    9. Ezra Sutton
    10. Pud Galvin
    11. Earl Averill
    12. Victor Starffin

    Contributors:

    1. Matsutaro Shoriki
    2. Dickey Pearce
    3. Larry MacPhail
    4. Frank Selee
    5. Tom Connolly

    Joe DiMaggio takes Johnny Mize's slot at #1 on the ballot. Victor Starffin is good enough to sneak into the #12 slot. On the contributor's side, both Weiss and Frick I will eventually be voting for, but not this year.

  15. #15
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Wendt View Post
    Houston,
    Do you read the results of the last election?
    Houston,
    Do you read me?
    Over and out.
    ;-)
    I PM'd him on the matter as well. It's not as momentous as the Apollo 13 "problem", but it's very serious in terms of having the ballot count as one is only allowed one errant name. Of course, simple corrective steps will solve this issue.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

  16. #16

    MLB team tours of Japan

    The Dodgers toured Japan after the 1956 season.
    Has any other major league team followed? Are there any plans for this fall?


    2009
    : Walter O'Malley .com, International Relations covers the 1956 tour very nicely, including "Brooklyn Dodgers 1956 Goodwill Tour to Japan" with line scores and short game stories. O'Malley, publisher
    Matsutaro Shoriki, and his sportswriter Sotaro Suzuki are the principals.
    : MLB.com provides an unreliable list of Teams Visiting Japan. It doesn't include the 1956 Dodgers.
    : The Embassy of Japan publishes "A History of the Baseball Partnership" which says this of one listed visit: "In 1949, the San Francisco Seals’ goodwill tour to Japan effectively restarted trans-Pacific baseball interaction. Since then, Major League teams have continued to tour Japan."
    Last edited by Paul Wendt; 10-24-2009 at 06:00 PM.

  17. #17
    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Elmer Flick
    3. Willie Foster
    4. Grant "Home Run" Johnson
    5. Red Ruffing
    6. Pete Hill
    7. Wes Ferrell
    8. Heinie Groh
    9. Hughie Jennings
    10. George Gore
    11. Bobby Wallace
    12. Stan Coveleski

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    1,596
    Players:

    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Willie Foster
    3. Biz Mackey
    4. Hilton Smith
    5. Elmer Flick
    6. Pie Traynor
    7. Frank Grant
    8. John Beckwith
    9. Ezra Sutton
    10. Harry Stovey
    11. Joe Medwick
    12. Heinie Groh

    Contributors:

    1. C. I. Taylor
    2. Larry MacPhail
    3. J.L. Wilkinson
    4. J. G. Taylor Spink
    5. Frank Selee

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    7,123
    Blog Entries
    4
    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Pie Traynor
    3. Bob Caruthers
    4. Stan Coveleski
    5. Bill Terry
    6. Biz Mackey
    7. Elmer Flick
    8. Earl Averill
    9. Charlie Bennett
    10. Willie Foster
    11. Jack Glasscock
    12. Bid McPhee

    1. Selee
    2. Huggins
    3. O.P. Caylor
    4. McPhail
    5. Clark Griffith

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    D-town, MI
    Posts
    6,083
    Blog Entries
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    1959 Ballot

    1 Joe DiMaggio
    2 Joe Start
    3 Bid McPhee
    4 Red Faber
    5 Wes Ferrell
    6 Elmer Flick
    7 George Gore
    8 Ezra Sutton
    9 Frank Grant
    10 Willie Foster
    11 Red Ruffing
    12 Stan Hack
    Eradicate, wipe out and abolish redundancy.

    Free El Duque!(and Mark Mulder) -- discover how the HOF rules are cheating this renowned member of Torre's Yankees dynasty and ask the HOF to include him on the ballot for the next BBWAA election.

  21. #21
    1. Joe Dimaggio
    2. Max Carey
    3. Stan Coveleski
    4. Pie Traynor
    5. Sam Thompson
    6. Biz Mackey
    7. Willie Foster
    8. Edd Roush
    9. Heinie Groh
    10. Joe Medwick
    11. Frank Grant
    12. Red Ruffing

    Contributors

    1. Frank Chance
    2. Tom Connolly
    3. Frank Selee
    4. J.G.T. Spink
    5. Larry MacPhail
    Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
    Joe Gary MCA Emanuel Sonny Dave Earl Stan
    Jonathan Neil Roger Anthony Ray Thomas Art Don
    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
    Robin JEDI

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    Balmer, Merlin
    Posts
    7,575
    Players

    1. Joe DiMaggio
    2. Biz Mackey
    3. Frank Grant
    4. Stan Coveleski
    5. Stan Hack
    6. Pete Hill
    7. Pie Traynor
    8. Joe Sewell
    9. Joe Medwick
    10. John Beckwith
    11. Joe McGinnity
    12. Addie Joss

    Contributors

    1. Larry MacPhail
    2. Ed Bolden
    3. Miller Huggins
    4. Billy Southworth
    5. Frank Selee

    ...I made a slight change in my philosophy, vaulting MacPhail to the top and dropping Connolly down the queue. Weiss may be next in line.
    Last edited by J W; 10-26-2009 at 10:15 AM.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
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    Posts
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    To Paul Wendt Re: Pete Hill

    Looks like Hill was a victim of human error -- I had him listed way down on the pitchers queue. I've changed my ballot by reslotting him.

    Hill's MLEqs are very impressive, and he has certainly been one of the most extensively researched stars of the early Negro Leagues. Grant will stay ahead of him on my queue because CF as a position held many more stars at the time. I compare Grant to other middle infielders of the day and his MLEqs stand so far above the rest that is seems an anomaly.

    Granted, including either player on the ballot is shaky, but I'm going with what we have to work with.

    Averill will have to wait. Actually, I may open the flood gate on my pitching queue -- with Bob Caruthers, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Lefty Gomez, and Hilton Smith all chomping at the bit to get on. Foster will likely be elected this year, so that will help.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by J W View Post
    To Paul Wendt Re: Pete Hill

    Looks like Hill was a victim of human error -- I had him listed way down on the pitchers queue. I've changed my ballot by reslotting him.
    Oh, that isn't one of the expected answers! Elsewhere in this forum one of our regulars jjpm74 laments that there isn't more discussion here. This shows one of the benefits.

    Actually, I may open the flood gate on my pitching queue -- with Bob Caruthers, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Lefty Gomez, and Hilton Smith all chomping at the bit to get on. Foster will likely be elected this year, so that will help.
    So many people have voted so quickly that I will spare the big table until next year or later. Here are the aggregates by grouped fielding positions if we elect DiMaggio, Foster, and Flick this year.

    _6 pitchers, _6 c3s2, _6 lcr1 : Negro Leagues and pre-NeL
    17 pitchers, 22 c3s2, 30 lcr1 : major leagues and pre-majors

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
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    We have a quorum on the player side of the ballot, and are a single vote away from achieving that status on the contributor side as well.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
    A Lincoln: I don't think much of a man who is not wiser today than he was yesterday.

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