1959 Best of Baseball Election

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:14 AM

This is our twenty-fourth election in this project. The entire rules follow.

This election will run through 5:59:59 PM EST November 6, 2009.

The prior election, and the ballots of the 1958 voters, are in this thread

Please note the slight change in the close time for this election. I will be unable to do all I do on the project on that Saturday due to other commitments, and this slight advancement of time allows for that. Given that we have minimal last minute voting, it should not prove much of an inconvenience to anyone.

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:15 AM

Rules

1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.

5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.

7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.

8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.

11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.

14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.

20) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.

21) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:16 AM

The players who become eligible in 1959 are:

Code:

Brecheen , Harry
DiMaggio , Joe
Kinder , Ellis
Nicholson , Bill
Starffin , Victor
Vander Meer , Johnny

On the contributor side, we are adding Ford Frick and George Weiss

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:20 AM

The 1958 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:

Code:

Player…………	votes	pts
Foster, Willie	11	65
Flick , Elmer	9	52
Hack, Stan	7	47
Stovey , Harry	7	43
Start , Joe	4	42
Traynor , Pie	6	42
Medwick, Joe	7	41
Ruffing , Red	5	39
McPhee , Bid	6	38
Mackey, Biz	5	35
Groh , Heinie	5	31
Coveleski , S	5	28
Terry , Bill	4	28
Klein, Chuck	3	25
Beckwith, John	5	24
Carey , Max	2	21
Gore , George	4	21
Ferrell, Wes	3	18
Grant , Frank	3	18
Sutton , Ezra	5	17
Thompson , S	2	17
Galvin , Pud	3	15
Bennett , C	3	13
Joss , Addie	1	12
Caruthers , B	1	10
Berger , Wally	1	9
Faber , Red	2	9
Smith, Hilton	1	9
Hill , Pete…..	1	8
Maranville , R	2	8
Dandridge, Ray	2	6
Dean, Dizzy	1	6
Glasscock , J	1	6
McGinnity , Joe	2	6
Averill, Earl	3	5
Duffy , Hugh	2	5
Jennings , H	1	5
Sewell , Joe	1	5
McCormick , J	2	4
Roush , Edd 	1	3
Wallace , Bobby	1	2

The 1958 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:

Code:

Contributor……….	votes	pts
MacPhail , La	9	23
Spink, JGT	8	23
Selee , Frank	8	19
Huggins , M	7	18
Taylor , C. I.	2	10
Doubleday , A	2	8
Wilkinson, JL	3	8
Connolly , Tom	3	6
Bolden, Ed	1	5
Chance , Frank	1	5
Shoriki, M	1	5
Pearce, Dickey	1	4
Caylor , O. P.	1	3
Griffith , C	2	3
Southworth, B	1	3
Conlon , C	1	2

I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:22 AM

Members of the Best of Baseball Hall. Last election's inductees are in red.

Players

Code:

Pete Alexander
Cap Anson
Luke Appling
Frank Baker
Ross Barnes
Cool Papa Bell
Dan Brouthers
Mordecai Brown
Ray Brown
Jesse Burkett
Oscar Charleston
Fred Clarke
John Clarkson
Ty Cobb
Mickey Cochrane
Eddie Collins
Jimmy Collins
Roger Connor
Sam Crawford
Joe Cronin
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Ed Delahanty
Bill Dickey
Martin Dihigo
Buck Ewing
Jimmie Foxx
Frankie Frisch
Lou Gehrig
Charlie Gehringer
Josh Gibson
Goose Goslin
Hank Greenberg
Lefty Grove
Billy Hamilton
Gabby Hartnett
Harry Heilmann
Billy Herman
Paul Hines
Rogers Hornsby
Carl Hubbell
Joe Jackson
Grant "Home Run"Johnson
Walter Johnson
Tim Keefe
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Nap LaJoie
Buck Leonard
Pop Lloyd
Ted Lyons
Sherry Magee
Christy Mathewson
Johnny Mize
Kid Nichols
Jim O'Rourke
Mel Ott
Satchel Paige
Eddie Plank
Charlie Radbourn
Bullet Joe Rogan
Amos Rusie
Babe Ruth
Louis Santop
Al Simmons
George Sisler
Tris Speaker
Turkey Stearnes
Mule Suttles
Cristobal Torriente
Dazzy Vance
Arky Vaughan
Rube Waddell
Honus Wagner
Ed Walsh
Paul Waner
John M. Ward
Willie Wells
Zack Wheat
Deacon White
Smoky Joe Williams
Jud Wilson
George Wright
Cy Young

Contributors

Code:

Doc Adams
Ed Barrow
Alexander Cartwright
Henry Chadwick
Charlie Commiskey
Jim Creighton
Rube Foster
Ned Hanlon
William Hulbert
Ban Johnson
Bill Klem
Kenesaw Landis
Connie Mack
Joe McCarthy
John McGraw
Cum Posey
A. J. Reach
Francis Richter
Branch Rickey
Al Spalding
Alfred Spink
Casey Stengel
Harry Wright

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:24 AM

The complete list of eligible players:

Code:

Adams , Babe
Adams , Sparky
Allen , Johnny
Altrock , Nick
Archer , Jimmy
Arlett , Buzz
Austin , Jimmy
Averill , Earl
Bancroft , Dave
Barry , Jack
Bartell , Dick
Battin , Joe
Beaumont , Ginger
Beckley , Jake
Beckwith , John
Bender , Chief
Bennett , Charlie
Benton , Larry
Berg , Moe
Bergen , Marty
Berger , Wally
Berry , Charlie
Bigbee , Carson
Bishop , Max
Blades , Ray
Blue , Lu
Bluege , Ossie
Bodie , Ping
Boley , Joe
Bond , Tommy
Bottomley , Jim
Bradley , Bill
Brecheen , Harry
Breitenstein , Ted
Bresnahan , Roger
Bridges , Tommy
Browning , Pete
Burns , George J.
Bush  , Joe
Bush , Donie
Bush , Guy
Cadore , Leon
Camilli , Dolph
Camnitz , Howie
Carey , Max
Carrigan , Bill
Caruthers , Bob 
Cepeda , Perucho
Chance , Frank
Chandler , Spud
Chapman , Ben
Chapman , Ray
Chase , Hal
Chesbro , Jack
Childs , Cupid
Cicotte , Eddie
Cissell , Bill
Clark , Watty
Clarkson , Bus
Coakley , Andy
Collins , Shano
Combs , Earle
Conroy , Wid
Coombs , Jack
Cooper , Andy
Cooper , Mort
Cooper , Wilbur
Coveleski , Stan
Crandall , Doc
Cravath , Gavvy
Creighton , Jim
Criger , Lou
Critz , Hughie
Cross , Lave
Crowder , Al 
Cruise , Walt
Cuccinello , Tony
Cummings , Candy
Cuyler , Kiki
Dandridge , Ray
Danning , Harry
Daubert , Jake
Davis , Curt
Davis , Harry
Davis , Spud
Dean, Dizzy
Derringer , Paul
DiMaggio , Joe
Dinneen , Bill
Doak , Bill
Donlin , Mike
Donovan , Bill
Dooin , Red
Doyle , Jack 
Doyle , Larry
Duffy , Hugh
Dugan , Joe
Dunlap , Fred
Dykes , Jimmy
Earnshaw , George
Ehmke , Howard
Elberfeld , Kid
Elliott , Jumbo
Ens , Jewel
Evers , Johnny
Faber , Red
Falkenberg , Cy
Ferrell , Rick
Ferrell , Wes
Fitzsimmons , Freddie
Fletcher , Art
Flick , Elmer
Fonseca , Lew
Foster , Eddie
Foster , Willie
Fraser , Chick
Galan , Augie
Galvin , Pud
Gelbert , Charlie
Glasscock , Jack
Gleason , Kid
Gomez , Lefty
Gonzalez , Mike
Gore , George
Gowdy , Hank
Grant , Eddie
Grant , Frank
Grantham , George
Griffith , Clark
Grimes , Burleigh
Grimm , Charlie
Groh , Heinie
Haas , Mule
Hack , Stan
Hafey , Chick
Hahn , Noodles
Haines , Jesse
Hallahan , Bill
Harder , Mel
Hargrave , Bubbles
Harris , Bucky
Harris , Vic
Henrich , Tommy
Herman , Babe
Herzog , Buck 
Higgins , Mike
Hill , Pete
Hinchman , Bill
Hooper , Harry
Hoyt , Waite
Huggins , Miller
Irwin , Charlie
Jackman , Will
Jennings , Hughie
Johnson , Bob
Johnson , Judy
Jones , Charley
Jones , Fielder
Jones , Sam P.
Jordan , Tim
Joss , Addie
Judge , Joe
Jurges , Billy
Kamm , Willie
Kawakami , Tetsuharu
Kelley , Joe
Kerr , Dickie
Killefer , Bill
Kilroy , Matt
Kinder , Ellis
Klein , Chuck
Kling , Johnny
Knabe , Otto
Kremer , Ray
Kress , Red
Kuhel , Joe
Lange , Bill
Larkin , Henry
Latham , Arlie
Lavagetto , Cookie
Lazzeri , Tony
Leach , Freddy
Leach , Tommy
Lee , Bill
Leever , Sam
Leonard , Emil (Dutch)
Lewis , Duffy
Lindstrom , Freddie
Lobert , Hans
Lombardi , Ernie
Long , Herman
Lopez , Al
Lowe , Bobby
Lucas , Red
Lundy , Dick
Luque , Dolf
Lyons , Denny
Mackey , Biz
Mancuso , Gus
Manush , Heinie
Maranville , Rabbit
Marberry , Firpo
Marquard , Rube
Martin , Pepper
Mathews , Bobby
Mays , Carl
McAleer , Jimmy
McCarthy , Tommy
McCormick , Frank
McCormick , Jim
McGinnity , Joe
McGowan , Bill
McInnis , Stuffy
McLean , Larry
McManus , Marty
McPhee , Bid
McVey , Cal
Meadows , Lee
Medwick , Joe
Mendez , Jose
Meusel , Bob
Milan , Clyde
Miller , Bing
Miller , Dots
Miller , Hack
Monroe , Bill
Moore , Dobie
Moore , Jo-Jo
Moore , Terry
Moran , Pat
Mostil , Johnny
Mulcahy , Hugh
Mullane , Tony
Mungo , Van
Murphy , Danny
Murray , Red
Myer , Buddy
Nehf , Art
Newsom , Bobo
Nicholson , Bill
O'Doul , Lefty
Oeschger , Joe
O'Farrell , Bob
O'Leary , Charlie
Oms , Alejandro
O'Neill , Buck
O'Neill , Steve
O'Neill , Tip
Orr , Dave
Pabor , Charlie
Paskert , Dode
Pearce , Dickey
Pearson , Monte
Peckinpaugh , Roger
Peitz , Heinie
Pennock , Herb
Perdue , Hub
Perkins , Cy
Phillippe , Deacon 
Pike , Lip
Pipp , Wally
Poles , Spotswood
Pruett , Hub
Quinn , Jack
Raymond , Bugs
Redding , Dick
Remsen , Jack
Rice , Sam
Richardson , Hardy
Ring , Jimmy
Ritchey , Claude
Rixey , Eppa
Robertson , Dave
Rolfe , Red
Rommel , Eddie
Root , Charlie
Roush , Edd 
Rucker , Nap
Rudolph , Dick
Ruel , Muddy
Ruffing , Red
Ryan  , Jimmy
Schacht , Al
Schaefer , Germany
Schalk , Ray
Schang , Wally
Schreckengost , Ossie
Schulte , Frank
Scott , Everett
Scott , Jack
Selkirk , George
Severeid , Hank
Sewell , Joe
Sewell , Luke
Sewell , Rip
Seymour , Cy
Sheckard , Jimmy
Sherdel , Bill
Shocker , Urban
Smith , Earl
Smith , Hilton
Smith , Sherry
Sparks , Tully
Stahl , Jake
Starffin , Victor
Start , Joe
Steinfeldt , Harry
Stephenson , Riggs
Stovey , Harry
Street , Gabby
Suhr , Gus
Sukeforth , Clyde
Sutton , Ezra
Sweeney , Bill
Tannehill , Jesse
Taylor , Ben
Tebbetts , Birdie
Tenney , Fred
Terry , Bill
Thevenow , Tommy
Thomas , Ira
Thompson , Sam
Tiernan , Mike
Tinker , Joe
Tobin , Jim
Toney , Fred
Traynor , Pie
Trouppe , Quincy
Turner , Terry
Uhle , George
Van Haltren , George
Vander Meer , Johnny
Veach , Bobby
Walberg , Rube
Wallace , Bobby
Walters , Bucky
Wambsganss , Bill
Waner , Lloyd
Warfield , Frank
Warneke , Lon
Welch , Mickey
Werber , Billy
West , Sam
White , Sol
White , Will 
Whitehill , Earl
Williams , Cy
Williams , Ken
Williamson , Ned
Willis , Vic
Wilson , Hack
Wilson , Jimmie
Witt , Whitey
Wood , Joe
Wright , Glenn
Wyatt , Whit 
Yerkes , Steve
York , Rudy
Young , Pep
Youngs , Ross
Zachary , Tom
Zimmer , Chief

The complete list of eligible contributors:

Code:

Abe , Iso
Bancroft , Frank
Bolden, Ed
Bulkely , Morgan
Cambria , Joe
Carrigan, Bill
Caylor , O. P.
Chance , Frank
Conlon , Charles
Connolly , Tom
Cooper , Andy
Cummings , Candy
Dinneen , Bill
Doubleday , Abner
Dreyfuss , Barney
Dunn , Jack
Elias , Al Munro
Evans, Billy
Foster , John B.
Frick, Ford
Fullerton , Hugh
Gleason , Kid
Gonzalez , Mike
Greenlee, Gus
Griffith , Clark
Harridge, Willie
Hillerich , John
Huggins , Miller
Jennings , Hughie
Krichell, Paul
Lardner , Ring
Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W.
Luque , Dolf
MacPhail , Larry
McCarthy , Tommy
McKechnie, Bill
Mendez , Jose
Mills , A. G.
Moran , Pat
Mutrie , Jim
Navin , Frank
Norworth, Jack
O'Neill, Steve
Osborn , Frank
Pasquel, Jorge
Pompez , Alex 
Rice, Grantland
Robinson , Wilbert
Ruppert , Jacob
Selee , Frank
Shibe , Ben
Shoriki, Matsutaro
Southworth, Billy
Spink, J. G. Taylor
Stallings , George
Street, Gabby
Taylor , C. I.
Thayer , Ernest
Tyson, Ty
Warfield , Frank
Weiss, George
White , Sol
Wilkinson , J. L. 
Wilson , Horace

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:28 AM

My ballot:

Players
1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Red Ruffing
3. Willie Foster
4. Stan Hack
5. Harry Stovey
6. John Beckwith
7. Joe Medwick
8. Joe McGinnity
9. Biz Mackey
10. Elmer Flick
11. Victor Starffin
12. Pud Galvin

Contributors
1. J. G. Taylor Spink
2. Miller Huggins
3. Frank Selee
4. Larry MacPhail
5. J. L. Wilkinson

J. L. Wilkinson, after a long hiatus, rejoins my contributor ballot. Joe DiMaggio deserves the #1 slot, and I cannot ignore Victor Starffin, about whom I will say more later. I see Pud Galvin has picked up some support, so he too will rejoin my ballot.

**Domenic** · 10-24-2009, 09:32 AM

I believe you posted your ballot from 1958, Mr. Albright.

01. Joe DiMaggio
02. Heinie Groh
03. Harry Stovey
04. Wally Berger
05. Willie Foster
06. Joe Medwick
07. Stan Hack
08. Wes Ferrell
09. John Beckwith
10. Biz Mackey
11. Victor Starffin
12. Rabbit Maranville

01. C.I. Taylor
02. Miller Huggins
03. J.G. Taylor Spink
04. Larry MacPhail
05. Frank Selee

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by Domenic

I believe you posted your ballot from 1958, Mr. Albright.

I realized it quickly, but there was an overlap in my correcting it and your post. Thanks, though.

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 09:42 AM

Victor Starffin

Won 2 MVPs and a Best Nine (best at his position in his league), though the latter award wasn't given during many of his best years. He's the Japanese career leader in shutouts with 83. He led his league in wins six times, winning percentage once, ERA once and strikeouts twice. He had six years with 26 or more wins, one with 38 and one with the record (shared with Inao) at 42 wins. He once had an 18 game winning streak. He was in the top four in ERA every year from 1937 to 1942. He won a pitching Triple Crown in the 1938 Fall campaign (they had fall and spring campaigns that year). On a career level, he was 6th in wins, 2nd in complete games, 7th in IP, 5th in ERA, and 8th in winning percentage.

His record is as follows:

Code:

G	IP	W	L	CG	shO	K	ERA
586	4175.1	303	176	350	83	1960	2.09

I rank him as the second best pitcher ever in Japanese baseball history, and its sixth best player. I also see him as the best player in Japanese professional ball from its start in 1936 through 1949. He makes Bill McNeil's all-Japan team in his book Baseball's Other Stars.

My conversion of his stats to major league levels is difficult, as the majority of his pitching was done in Japan's deadball era (before 1945). Even so, with a number of Japanese pitchers I rank below him clearly demonstrating Hall of Fame talent in my opinion, I think he belongs. The prime examples of Japanese pitchers I rank below him showing HOF talent are: Kazuhisa Inao, Akira Bessho, Masaaki Koyama and Yutaka Enatsu. Personally, I think two of the best comparisons for him are HOF pitchers Burleigh Grimes and Charlie (Old Hoss) Radbourn.

**dgarza** · 10-24-2009, 10:01 AM

Players

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Joe Medwick
3. Sam Thompson
4. Chuck Klein
5. Harry Stovey
6. Bill Terry
7. Hugh Duffy
8. Pud Galvin
9. Jim McCormick
10. Elmer Flick
11. Pete Browning
12. Joe McGinnity

Contributors

1. Larry MacPhail
2. Abner Doubleday
3. Miller Huggins
4. George Weiss
5. Ford Frick

Temporarily dropping Charles Conlon for now.

**AstrosFan** · 10-24-2009, 10:16 AM

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Max Carey
3. Willie Foster
4. Elmer Flick
5. John Beckwith
6. Harry Stovey
7. Joe Medwick
8. Stan Hack
9. Bid McPhee
10. Earl Averill
11. Biz Mackey
12. Pie Traynor

1. J. G. Taylor Spink
2. Larry MacPhail
3. Frank Selee
4. Miller Huggins
5. C. I. Taylor

**Paul Wendt** · 10-24-2009, 01:02 PM

Houston,
Do you read the results of the last election?
Houston,
Do you read me?
Over and out.
;-)

**jjpm74** · 10-24-2009, 02:21 PM

Players:

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Stan Hack
3. Joe Start
4. Red Ruffing
5. Charlie Bennett
6. Rabbit Maranville
7. Pie Traynor
8. Bid McPhee
9. Ezra Sutton
10. Pud Galvin
11. Earl Averill
12. Victor Starffin

Contributors:

1. Matsutaro Shoriki
2. Dickey Pearce
3. Larry MacPhail
4. Frank Selee
5. Tom Connolly

Joe DiMaggio takes Johnny Mize's slot at #1 on the ballot. Victor Starffin is good enough to sneak into the #12 slot. On the contributor's side, both Weiss and Frick I will eventually be voting for, but not this year.

**jalbright** · 10-24-2009, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by Paul Wendt

Houston,
Do you read the results of the last election?
Houston,
Do you read me?
Over and out.
;-)

I PM'd him on the matter as well. It's not as momentous as the Apollo 13 "problem", but it's very serious in terms of having the ballot count as one is only allowed one errant name. Of course, simple corrective steps will solve this issue.

**Paul Wendt** · 10-24-2009, 05:56 PM

The Dodgers toured Japan after the 1956 season.
Has any other major league team followed? Are there any plans for this fall?

2009
: Walter O'Malley .com, International Relations covers the 1956 tour very nicely, including "Brooklyn Dodgers 1956 Goodwill Tour to Japan" with line scores and short game stories. O'Malley, publisher Matsutaro Shoriki, and his sportswriter Sotaro Suzuki are the principals.
: MLB.com provides an unreliable list of Teams Visiting Japan. It doesn't include the 1956 Dodgers.
: The Embassy of Japan publishes "A History of the Baseball Partnership" which says this of one listed visit: "In 1949, the San Francisco Seals’ goodwill tour to Japan effectively restarted trans-Pacific baseball interaction. Since then, Major League teams have continued to tour Japan."

**Tiboreau** · 10-24-2009, 06:59 PM

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Elmer Flick
3. Willie Foster
4. Grant "Home Run" Johnson
5. Red Ruffing
6. Pete Hill
7. Wes Ferrell
8. Heinie Groh
9. Hughie Jennings
10. George Gore
11. Bobby Wallace
12. Stan Coveleski

**Dogdaze** · 10-25-2009, 07:45 AM

Players:

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Willie Foster
3. Biz Mackey
4. Hilton Smith
5. Elmer Flick
6. Pie Traynor
7. Frank Grant
8. John Beckwith
9. Ezra Sutton
10. Harry Stovey
11. Joe Medwick
12. Heinie Groh

Contributors:

1. C. I. Taylor
2. Larry MacPhail
3. J.L. Wilkinson
4. J. G. Taylor Spink
5. Frank Selee

**PVNICK** · 10-26-2009, 04:18 AM

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Pie Traynor
3. Bob Caruthers
4. Stan Coveleski
5. Bill Terry
6. Biz Mackey
7. Elmer Flick
8. Earl Averill
9. Charlie Bennett
10. Willie Foster
11. Jack Glasscock
12. Bid McPhee

1. Selee
2. Huggins
3. O.P. Caylor
4. McPhail
5. Clark Griffith

**Freakshow** · 10-26-2009, 06:17 AM

1 Joe DiMaggio
2 Joe Start
3 Bid McPhee
4 Red Faber
5 Wes Ferrell
6 Elmer Flick
7 George Gore
8 Ezra Sutton
9 Frank Grant
10 Willie Foster
11 Red Ruffing
12 Stan Hack

**Captain Cold Nose** · 10-26-2009, 08:33 AM

1. Joe Dimaggio
2. Max Carey
3. Stan Coveleski
4. Pie Traynor
5. Sam Thompson
6. Biz Mackey
7. Willie Foster
8. Edd Roush
9. Heinie Groh
10. Joe Medwick
11. Frank Grant
12. Red Ruffing

Contributors

1. Frank Chance
2. Tom Connolly
3. Frank Selee
4. J.G.T. Spink
5. Larry MacPhail

**J W** · 10-26-2009, 09:45 AM

Players

1. Joe DiMaggio
2. Biz Mackey
3. Frank Grant
4. Stan Coveleski
5. Stan Hack
6. Pete Hill
7. Pie Traynor
8. Joe Sewell
9. Joe Medwick
10. John Beckwith
11. Joe McGinnity
12. Addie Joss

Contributors

1. Larry MacPhail
2. Ed Bolden
3. Miller Huggins
4. Billy Southworth
5. Frank Selee

...I made a slight change in my philosophy, vaulting MacPhail to the top and dropping Connolly down the queue. Weiss may be next in line.

**J W** · 10-26-2009, 10:14 AM

To Paul Wendt Re: Pete Hill

Looks like Hill was a victim of human error -- I had him listed way down on the pitchers queue. I've changed my ballot by reslotting him.

Hill's MLEqs are very impressive, and he has certainly been one of the most extensively researched stars of the early Negro Leagues. Grant will stay ahead of him on my queue because CF as a position held many more stars at the time. I compare Grant to other middle infielders of the day and his MLEqs stand so far above the rest that is seems an anomaly.

Granted, including either player on the ballot is shaky, but I'm going with what we have to work with.

Averill will have to wait. Actually, I may open the flood gate on my pitching queue -- with Bob Caruthers, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Lefty Gomez, and Hilton Smith all chomping at the bit to get on. Foster will likely be elected this year, so that will help.

**Paul Wendt** · 10-26-2009, 11:17 AM

Originally Posted by J W

To Paul Wendt Re: Pete Hill

Looks like Hill was a victim of human error -- I had him listed way down on the pitchers queue. I've changed my ballot by reslotting him.

Oh, that isn't one of the expected answers! Elsewhere in this forum one of our regulars jjpm74 laments that there isn't more discussion here. This shows one of the benefits.

Actually, I may open the flood gate on my pitching queue -- with Bob Caruthers, Willie Foster, Pud Galvin, Lefty Gomez, and Hilton Smith all chomping at the bit to get on. Foster will likely be elected this year, so that will help.

So many people have voted so quickly that I will spare the big table until next year or later. Here are the aggregates by grouped fielding positions if we elect DiMaggio, Foster, and Flick this year.

_6 pitchers, _6 c3s2, _6 lcr1 : Negro Leagues and pre-NeL
17 pitchers, 22 c3s2, 30 lcr1 : major leagues and pre-majors