Cooperstown versus the Best of Baseball through 1959

[jalbright]

Now that we've finished the 1950's, it's time for another review of how the Best of Baseball project is stacking up against Cooperstown.

Let's start with the players both projects agree on:

Pete Alexander
Cap Anson
Frank Baker
Dan Brouthers
Mordecai Brown
Fred Clarke
Ty Cobb
Mickey Cochrane
Eddie Collins
Jimmy Collins
Sam Crawford
Joe Cronin
Ed Delahanty
Bill Dickey
Joe DiMaggio
Buck Ewing
Jimmie Foxx
Frankie Frisch
Lou Gehrig
Charlie Gehringer
Hank Greenberg
Lefty Grove
Gabby Hartnett
Harry Heilmann
Rogers Hornsby
Carl Hubbell
Walter Johnson
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Nap LaJoie
Ted Lyons
Christy Mathewson
Kid Nichols
Jim O'Rourke
Mel Ott
Eddie Plank
Charlie Radbourn
Babe Ruth
Al Simmons
George Sisler
Tris Speaker
Dazzy Vance
Rube Waddell
Honus Wagner
Ed Walsh
Paul Waner
Zack Wheat
George Wright*
Cy Young

Wright gets an asterisk, as he's in Cooperstown as a Pioneer, while he's in BOB as a player.

[jalbright]

Here are the Negro Leaguers we've inducted into Best of Baseball, but are not yet in Cooperstown (with years of induction in Cooperstown)

Bell, Cool Papa (74)
Brown, Ray (2006)
Oscar Charleston (76)
Martin Dihigo (77)
Willie Foster (96)
Josh Gibson (72)
Buck Leonard (72)
Pop Lloyd (77)
Satchel Paige (71)
Bullet Joe Rogan (98)
Louis Santop (2006)
Turkey Stearnes (2000)
Mule Suttles (2006)
Cristobal Torriente (2006)
Willie Wells (97)
Joe Williams (99)
Jud Wilson (2006)

[jalbright]

Here are the guys we inducted into Best of Baseball, but were inducted into Cooperstown after 1959 (with year of induction):

Luke Appling (64)
John Clarkson (63)
Roger Connor (76)
George Davis (98)
Elmer Flick (63)
Goose Goslin (68)
Billy Hamilton (61)
Billy Herman (75)
Tim Keefe (64)
Johnny Mize (81)
Amos Rusie (77)
Arky Vaughan (85)
John M. Ward (64)

[jalbright]

Here are the players we've inducted into Best of Baseball, but are still waiting for that honor from Cooperstown:

Ross Barnes
Bill Dahlen
Paul Hines
Joe Jackson
Grant "Home Run" Johnson
Sherry Magee
Deacon White

[jalbright]

Here are the players Cooperstown honored by 1959, but haven't yet been inducted into Best of Baseball:

Chief Bender
Roger Bresnahan
Frank Chance
Jack Chesbro
Dizzy Dean
Hugh Duffy
Johnny Evers
Hughie Jennings
Rabbit Maranville
Tommy McCarthy
Joe McGinnity
Herb Pennock
Ray Schalk
Bill Terry
Joe Tinker
Pie Traynor
Bobby Wallace

[jalbright]

Here are the contributors agreed upon by both projects (though Best of Baseball has Wright as a player rather than a contributor):

Ed Barrow 
Alexander Cartwright
Henry Chadwick
Charlie Commiskey
Ban Johnson
Bill Klem
Kenesaw Landis
Connie Mack
Joe McCarthy
John McGraw
Al Spalding
George Wright*
Harry Wright

[jalbright]

There's only two guys from the Negro Leagues Best of Baseball has to date as a contributor--Rube Foster, who Cooperstown inducted in 1981 and Cum Posey, who Cooperstown inducted in 2006

[jalbright]

There are a few contributors Best of Baseball has inducted by 1959 who had to wait longer for the same honor from Cooperstown (with years of induction):

Ned Hanlon (96)
William Hulbert (95)
Larry MacPhail (78)
Branch Rickey (67)
Casey Stengel (66)

[jalbright]

There are some guys Best of Baseball has already inducted as contributors that Cooperstown has never inducted:

Doc Adams
Jim Creighton
A. J. Reach
Francis Richter
Albert Spink

[jalbright]

Lastly, Cooperstown had honored three guys by 1959 who are still on the ballot for Best of Baseball:

Morgan Bulkely
Tom Connolly
Candy Cummings
Clark Griffith
Wilbert Robinson

[EdTarbusz]

You guys are obviously way ahead of the curve regarding Negro Leaguers.

[jalbright]

You guys are obviously way ahead of the curve regarding Negro Leaguers.

True. We allowed Negro Leaguers from 1936, while Cooperstown didn't until Satch Paige in 1971. It is a difference in the rules, to be sure, but I think ours are fairer than Cooperstown's were in this regard.

[EdTarbusz]

I think ours are fairer than Cooperstown's were in this regard.

I agree with you.

[jalbright]

Also, we're in 2009 now, no matter how we role play. I think it adds to the project to stack the Negro Leaguers up against their peers. BTW, if you want to participate, you're welcome to join.

[Paul Wendt]

As Jim said, you're welcome to join, Ed.

You guys are obviously way ahead of the curve regarding Negro Leaguers.

As Jim hinted, I don't get too smug about this because we are only faking 1959, and only in a limited way because we acknowledge what others have written and compiled about these players since then.

[jalbright]

As Jim said, you're welcome to join, Ed.



As Jim hinted, I don't get too smug about this because we are only faking 1959, and only in a limited way because we acknowledge what others have written and compiled about these players since then.

True enough--but Cooperstown had the resources it had always used, namely, the guys who played against their inductee candidates. There always was plenty of evidence the best of the Negro Leaguers were as good as (and sometimes better) than the best of the majors. The times at least allowed them to ignore that evidence, if not actually encouraging such deliberate ignorance. I certainly don't intend to recreate that in any project I run.

[jalbright]

Really, as I compare us to Cooperstown, I focus on the names in the list below (guys who we inducted at least a decade before Cooperstown, or Cooperstown hasn't inducted at all) versus the guys Cooperstown put in and we didn't:

Our inductions (minus Negro Leaguer Grant Johnson):

Roger Connor (76)
George Davis (98)
Billy Herman (75)
Johnny Mize (81)
Amos Rusie (77)
Arky Vaughan (85)
Ross Barnes
Bill Dahlen
Paul Hines
Joe Jackson
Sherry Magee
Deacon White

Their inductions we haven't gone for (at least not yet):

Chief Bender
Roger Bresnahan
Frank Chance
Jack Chesbro
Dizzy Dean
Hugh Duffy
Johnny Evers
Hughie Jennings
Rabbit Maranville
Tommy McCarthy
Joe McGinnity
Herb Pennock
Ray Schalk
Bill Terry
Joe Tinker
Pie Traynor
Bobby Wallace

I'm a lot more pleased with our choices than theirs. FWIW, Traynor is fourth among the holdovers going into 1960, and is likely to be elected soon. Next is Bill Terry at 12th among the holdovers. Nobody else on the Cooperstown list is in our top 20 holdovers to 1960.

[jalbright]

Piling on some against Cooperstown, we had these guys by 1949 that Cooperstown didn't get to until the 60's:

John Clarkson
Goose Goslin
Billy Hamilton
Tim Keefe
John M. Ward

[J W]

Go us?

The question that I feel is more relevant is: Considering the same rules, would an actual HOF voting panel of 2009 be able to replicate or improve upon what we've done? I would still have to answer "no". Go us!

[jalbright]

A refinement on my comparison to Cooperstown:

Inducted in Cooperstown at least 10 years before Best of Baseball:

Year	NBBHOF Players.....	yr in BOB
1939	Keeler, Willie.........	58
	Radbourn, Charlie	56
	Sisler, George........	51
1946	Waddell, Rube........	57
1948	Traynor, Pie..........	60

Inducted into Best of Baseball at least 10 years before Cooperstown (note: Negro Leaguers don't count against Cooperstown in this accounting until 1990 to somewhat allow for the difference in rules on those players, and those that do count under this rule appear in red)

Year	BOB Players..........	yr in Coop
1937	Crawford, Sam.......	57
1937	Nichols, Kid...........	49
1937	Williams, Smoky Joe	99
1938	Baker, Frank..........	55
1938	Connor, Roger........	76
1939	Davis, George........	98
1939	Hamilton, Billy........	61
1939	Torriente, Cristobal	2006
1940	Clarkson, John.......	63
1940	Heilmann, Harry......	52
1940	Rogan, Bullet Joe....	98
1942	Keefe, Tim............	64
1944	Amos Rusie...........	77
1944	Louis Santop.........	2006
1945	John M. Ward........	64
1946	Turkey Stearnes....	2000
1946	Mule Suttles..........	2006
1947	Goose Goslin.........	68
1950	Jud Wilson............	2006
1950	Luke Appling..........	64
1953	Willie Wells..........	97
1954	Arky Vaughan........	85
1955	Ray Brown............	2006
1958	Billy Herman..........	75
1958	Johnny Mize..........	81
1959	Willie Foster..........	96
1960	Bid McPhee...........	2000

Even without the Negro Leaguers, I like our choices over Cooperstown's in this measure.

I figured that since the first Negro League committee ended its work in 1977, it was reasonable to hold Cooperstown's feet to the fire on Negro Leaguers selected after 1990.