Would you change Babe Ruth's swing?

[songtitle]

From the "double pendulum" thread.

good swing site
http://www.hittingisaguess.com/LeverageWedges.html

Here is Babe Ruth's swing from that site.

A few questions:

1. If Ruth were your student, and he had been slumping, (and just for fun, he was not in the bigs yet), would you recommend that he change his:
- bar arm
- long stride (over 3 feet)
- head movement (over 1 foot to pitcher)
- head drop

Why not?

2. Does any MLB hitter hit like this today?

3. Does anyone teach Ruth's swing? If not, why not?

[dominik]

Of course ruth would shorten his swing when facing modern pitching. Of course he would also not swing a 54 ounce bat.

With that long swing and bat he wouldn't be competitive today. He was a high SO type then and would be likely a 200 SO guy against today's fast sharp breaking pitches.

But with his talent I think it would be easy to adjust to the modern game. He would have the talent to dominate today, his power exeeded that of many roid users. But he would need some adjustments.

[songtitle]

Of course ruth would shorten his swing when facing modern pitching. Of course he would also not swing a 54 ounce bat.

As I understand it, Ruth typically used a 42 oz bat. He used a 50+ oz bat for BP in Yankee stadium once or twice.

He was purchased by the New York Yankees from Boston before the 1920 season for $125,000. Ruth, now playing the outfield, used a Louisville Slugger Model R-43 with a medium barrel, 36 inches in length and weighing 42 ounces. Babe Ruth, often called Bambino, hit 54 home runs in 1920 and 59 in 1921.

How would "shortening his swing" help hit a breaking pitch exactly? I assume you are referring to his long stride. His swing actually starts late because of his long stride. So, wouldn't he instead have an advantage since his swing starts so late?

[chesspirate]

first of all, lets agree that gentleman's analysis skills are rather plain.

I would disagree with pretty much everything this video presents.

1)Hitch: Many instructors promote tipping or other loading actions and the proper timing of these movements is what's important. I haven't personally heard "he's got a hitch in his swing" since little league.

2)Barred arm: well, i wouldn't call his arm "barred" anyway. And besides look at the launch positions of Griffey, Sosa, McGwire, Pujols, Aramis Ramirez, Kung fu panda, Dan Uggla, Hanley Ramirez... ... Many Many hitters keep their lead arms rather 'straight' with minimal bend in the lead elbow.

3)Head moving: Many have pointed out in the past that head movement is not a terrible thing, as long as it is before foot plant. a still head is important after footplant. if the head is drifting forward during the actual swing then there could be a problem, but most head movement before foot plant is not a problem.

4)Long swing: Again, definitions issue here. Why is Ruth's swing a 'long' swing? I wouldn't say that. I would define a long swing in two ways, both in frame count from footplant to contact (of which as far as I can gather Ruth did not have a problem) and the bat moving outside of the swing path unnecessarily, which would probably show up in frame count anyway.

5)weight shift: Again, timing here is the key. Weight shift before footplant is fine. I'd venture to say that close to 99% of MLB hitters move weight forward during the stride- almost the definition of "stride" really, it's not called a "step" or a "reaching out" even though those terms are used by some, the generally accepted and commonly used term is stride, indicating forward movement.

6)finish low: at the time Ruth played this finish was the style, and many more pitches were being hit up in the strike zone (taller zone) which would promote a more 'flat' finish, but Ruth as far as I've seen finished in or near his shoulder line so again a matter of defining "up" because I would certainly NOT describe his finish as finishing 'low'

7)level swing: he disagrees with himself here because he says that the swing is level with the pitch, or a slight 'up' swing so I would safely say that not many hitting 'experts' would find to much fault in that. But also, if Ruth is swinging 'up' how is he finishing 'low'? the answer is, he's not finishing 'low'.


so, all in all, his definitions in a word "suck" and his understanding of the swing is somewhat simple.

I see Ruth's swing as an old version of a Griffey type swing, with Jr. having less of a "hitch" for lack of a simpler word. Or compare the swing to Pat Burrell, only Burrell starts of wider and has less room to move forward before foot plant and his "hitch" is a little more controlled.

So what is more wrong here? Ruth's swing, or this one persons ideas of what hitting 'experts' believe?

[JJA]

I agree with chesspirate's characterizations, especially the last two. Look at where the catcher is setting up. I have lots and lots of old video, and that catcher position is actually quite common in those days, yet today it only occurs when pithcer wants to have a waste pitch up. Today's strike zone dictates a higher finish on the swing compard to the guys of yesteryear.

[songtitle]

Today's strike zone dictates a higher finish on the swing compard to the guys of yesteryear.

So... you would change Ruth's swing - high finish vs. low finish.

Would you change anything else?

[JJA]

No, no, no! I most definitely wouldn't change that guys swing! Are you crazy? Any instructor changing that swing should find a new job. To me it's one of the most beautiful swings I have ever seen, great loading, superb position at launch, finishes his swing perhaps better than anyone in history. I dream of getting my kids into the launch position he gets into (Aaron is another). What I'm saying is that his swing would probably change some due to the lower strike zone. In other words, Ruth would have figured it out and probably finished higher than we see in his clips if he were playing today. That was my point and it's really of course just pure speculation. I just have a ton of clips of him hitting waist to chest high pitches, none in fact knee high. I've got one HR from him on a pitch slightly below waist high and in that clip he finishes with the bat over his head. I'm speculating he would do more of that in today's game. That's my reasoning for whatever it is worth.

As far as I know, he never had any instruction, and no instructor worth anything would change that guy. I love his swing. It's just a beautiful swing to behold even 80 years later.

-JJA

[Berkman#17]

As far as I know, he never had any instruction, and no instructor worth anything would change that guy.

-JJA

Ted stated that since Babe started out as a pitcher, no hitting instructors really messed with him. Just let him swing and focused on his pitching.

IIRC, Ruth just copied Shoeless Joe's swing, and went about his business.

[songtitle]

Ruth's (hitting) stride forward looks like Tim Lincecum's pitching stride.