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Thread: Reynolds & Casey on MLB network talking about hands

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    Reynolds & Casey on MLB network talking about hands

    Did anybody see/record Harold Reynolds and Sean Casey on MLB network last night? They talked about using the hands and showed one hand hitting drills. They talked about getting the feeling in the hands through the hitting zone.

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    You've got to be kidding me.

    They were broadcasting information on public TV suggesting that the pros use their hands?

    Blasphemy!

    When will this nonsense end?

    p.s.
    Would appreciate it if someone could dig up the broadcast and place it on Youtube.

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    You've got to be kidding me.

    They were broadcasting information on public TV suggesting that the pros use their hands?

    Blasphemy!

    When will this nonsense end?

    p.s.
    Would appreciate it if someone could dig up the broadcast and place it on Youtube.
    I saw it and was struck by how much Casey just tilts and turns.
    I think he even said the hands are along for the ride
    He also said the hands just hold on to the bat.O'leary is right
    Last edited by Bucketdad; 01-05-2010 at 09:57 AM.

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    I am ashamed to say I listened to baseball "experts" like this for years.

    Then one day it hit me - they don't know what they are talking about.

    BBF forumers saving the world, one comment at a time.
    Last edited by songtitle; 01-05-2010 at 10:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    I saw it and was struck by how much Casey just tilts and turns.
    I think he even said the hands are along for the ride
    He also said the hands just hold on to the bat.O'leary is right
    Have you ever heard Tony Gwynn talk about the flaw of chicken winging?

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    Have you ever heard Tony Gwynn talk about the flaw of chicken winging?
    You mean that he ate too many buckets of chicken wings?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    I saw it and was struck by how much Casey just tilts and turns.
    I think he even said the hands are along for the ride
    He also said the hands just hold on to the bat.O'leary is right
    Ok, so I'd try to let this ride but if you want to be a SA about it, then move your hands without moving any other body part. I get just a little po 'd when some crap like this is posted knowing that one person defines hands as hands themselves while another posts hands meaning hands arms wrist, etc. Far be it that anyone would appreciate someone who defines anatomical parts as they are!
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    I saw it and was struck by how much Casey just tilts and turns.
    I think he even said the hands are along for the ride
    He also said the hands just hold on to the bat.O'leary is right
    Wow ... this is amazing stuff. Next I suppose you are going to tell me that Casey's arms flew off of a Merry-Go-Round as opposed to a Ferris Wheel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    I saw it and was struck by how much Casey just tilts and turns.
    I think he even said the hands are along for the ride
    He also said the hands just hold on to the bat.O'leary is right
    As long as we're into the non-value added comments, it was interesting about how Casey commented about "forearm swivel", "one-legged hitting", and "thrusting".

    I guess 2010 isn't going to be any better than 2009...

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    What was wrong with 2009?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJA View Post
    As long as we're into the non-value added comments, it was interesting about how Casey commented about "forearm swivel", "one-legged hitting", and "thrusting".

    I guess 2010 isn't going to be any better than 2009...
    Don't ignore Casey's comment on "hand-set". Not an insignificant detail.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    What was wrong with 2009?
    Easy. Arguments get made over and over and over again on the same subjects and people ignore what others say for agenda reasons. The "hands" arguments are classic examples of this. As Justthefacts and others have said now for more than 10 years, virtually everything we interact with in the world from the earliest years is via the hands, hence it's natural to talk about the hands. Nevertheless, as Cannonball pointed out and has been pointed out probably at least 10,000 times and ignored that many times, the hands can't doing anything by themselves. As again as been pointed out at least 10,000 times, no one has any problem with "hands" based cues. Hey, I use them myself lots of the time. But these cues don't reflect reality, and some people like to teach reality based cues, just as some others don't.

    But no, some need to disparage those who don't use hand based cues over and over and over for agenda based reasons. It just gets old and adds zero value to the overall discussion. How hard is it to understand that there are lots of different ways to get to a high level swing? There is no one right way to teach reading or arithmetic or writing, but for some there can only be one right way of teaching hitting. It's silly and pathetic at the same time, and it gets very old.

    -JJA

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJA View Post
    Easy. Arguments get made over and over and over again on the same subjects and people ignore what others say for agenda reasons. The "hands" arguments are classic examples of this. As Justthefacts and others have said now for more than 10 years, virtually everything we interact with in the world from the earliest years is via the hands, hence it's natural to talk about the hands. Nevertheless, as Cannonball pointed out and has been pointed out probably at least 10,000 times and ignored that many times, the hands can't doing anything by themselves. As again as been pointed out at least 10,000 times, no one has any problem with "hands" based cues. Hey, I use them myself lots of the time. But these cues don't reflect reality, and some people like to teach reality based cues, just as some others don't.

    But no, some need to disparage those who don't use hand based cues over and over and over for agenda based reasons. It just gets old and adds zero value to the overall discussion. How hard is it to understand that there are lots of different ways to get to a high level swing? There is no one right way to teach reading or arithmetic or writing, but for some there can only be one right way of teaching hitting. It's silly and pathetic at the same time, and it gets very old.

    -JJA
    Now c’mon, let’s be fair. No one is talking about using the hands in isolation and no one believes the hands can do much without drawing on other body segments.

    When that other website speaks of the “trifecta”, they are talking about three ‘actions’ taking place in parallel …. The ‘swivel’, ‘triangle’ and ‘tilt’. The “action” of “connection” is, IMO, well described. The action of “connection” is something that my kids readily grasp and understand. There is also a healthy description of how the rear leg & hip is involved … and the connection made between the ‘rear hip’ and the ‘hands/barrel’. It’s a pretty complete description IMO. I certainly wouldn't classify it as “silly” or “pathetic”.

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    For those of us who didn't see the show, can someone fill us in what was exactly said about the role of the hands during the swing?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball View Post
    Ok, so I'd try to let this ride but if you want to be a SA about it, then move your hands without moving any other body part. I get just a little po 'd when some crap like this is posted knowing that one person defines hands as hands themselves while another posts hands meaning hands arms wrist, etc. Far be it that anyone would appreciate someone who defines anatomical parts as they are!
    All I can say is, I call 'em as I see 'em.
    But I been told here at BBF that I'm out of my league.
    Which is fine with me.
    I disagree that my comments are crap.
    When I here current and former MBLers talk about the hands and how to use them, I listen and take notes.
    Recently, well last summer, I was at a clinic here in MN where Rod Carew explained to us how to swing the bat. The hands are active. But what does he know, right.
    Recently, well 2 winters ago, I was at a clinic here in MN where Joe Mauer explained how he swings the bat. The hands are active, but again, what does he know.
    A side note:
    Both Carew and Mauer said you hit from the back leg.
    Mauer said that when he decides to attack the ball and hit it, he is 70% weighted on the back leg. Carew also agrees with back leg hitting.
    But neither are internet gurus so they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    You need to grow some skin pal.

    BD

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    It’s a pretty complete description IMO. I certainly wouldn't classify it as “silly” or “pathetic”.
    My problem with the idea of swivel is that I've never seen what's demonstrated as swivel actually appear in a good swing.

    If it's so important, it should be equally obvious.

    That's why I think it's at most a cue.

    P.S. Some of the attempts of convincing me of the existence of the swivel have been laughably bad.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Now c’mon, let’s be fair. No one is talking about using the hands in isolation and no one believes the hands can do much without drawing on other body segments.

    When that other website speaks of the “trifecta”, they are talking about three ‘actions’ taking place in parallel …. The ‘swivel’, ‘triangle’ and ‘tilt’. The “action” of “connection” is, IMO, well described. The action of “connection” is something that my kids readily grasp and understand. There is also a healthy description of how the rear leg & hip is involved … and the connection made between the ‘rear hip’ and the ‘hands/barrel’. It’s a pretty complete description IMO. I certainly wouldn't classify it as “silly” or “pathetic”.
    The SA remark is what it is and you know it. It was a shot at someone and those others who attempt to instruct without putting emphasis on the term "hands" as well. Those people, including myself, know that these responses are intended to incite.
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    All I can say is, I call 'em as I see 'em.
    But I been told here at BBF that I'm out of my league.
    Which is fine with me.
    I disagree that my comments are crap.
    When I here current and former MBLers talk about the hands and how to use them, I listen and take notes.
    Recently, well last summer, I was at a clinic here in MN where Rod Carew explained to us how to swing the bat. The hands are active. But what does he know, right.
    Recently, well 2 winters ago, I was at a clinic here in MN where Joe Mauer explained how he swings the bat. The hands are active, but again, what does he know.
    A side note:
    Both Carew and Mauer said you hit from the back leg.
    Mauer said that when he decides to attack the ball and hit it, he is 70% weighted on the back leg. Carew also agrees with back leg hitting.
    But neither are internet gurus so they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    You need to grow some skin pal.

    BD
    This is getting out of control.

    First, you want me to believe that the pros use their hands …. And now, you want me to believe that they hit from their back side???

    Next I expect you to tell me that the world is round.

    Blasphemy I tell you …. Blasphemy!!

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    All I can say is, I call 'em as I see 'em.
    But I been told here at BBF that I'm out of my league.
    Which is fine with me.
    I disagree that my comments are crap.
    When I here current and former MBLers talk about the hands and how to use them, I listen and take notes.
    Recently, well last summer, I was at a clinic here in MN where Rod Carew explained to us how to swing the bat. The hands are active. But what does he know, right.
    Recently, well 2 winters ago, I was at a clinic here in MN where Joe Mauer explained how he swings the bat. The hands are active, but again, what does he know.
    A side note:
    Both Carew and Mauer said you hit from the back leg.
    Mauer said that when he decides to attack the ball and hit it, he is 70% weighted on the back leg. Carew also agrees with back leg hitting.
    But neither are internet gurus so they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    You need to grow some skin pal.

    BD
    Then make post such as this and forget the Junior High crap/cheap shots. I could care less what anyone thinks about "your league." I could care lesss about what anyone thinks about "my league as well" Post content. I am not going to put up with the continued attenpts to incite others. Take that to the bank!
    Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    All I can say is, I call 'em as I see 'em.
    But I been told here at BBF that I'm out of my league.
    Which is fine with me.
    I disagree that my comments are crap.
    When I here current and former MBLers talk about the hands and how to use them, I listen and take notes.
    Recently, well last summer, I was at a clinic here in MN where Rod Carew explained to us how to swing the bat. The hands are active. But what does he know, right.
    Recently, well 2 winters ago, I was at a clinic here in MN where Joe Mauer explained how he swings the bat. The hands are active, but again, what does he know.
    I'm working with another major league level guy right now who is trying to get ready for Spring Training. He's a major hands guy and has been all of his life. He wants to feel his hands working. However, when he tries to work his hands during his swings, the result is disconnection and hitting the ball out front (this was also Andres' problem). My point to him is that the hands aren't dead, but if you always activate them then you are going to reduce your adjustability. Hiddengem understands this, but not all do.


    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    Both Carew and Mauer said you hit from the back leg. Mauer said that when he decides to attack the ball and hit it, he is 70% weighted on the back leg. Carew also agrees with back leg hitting.
    But neither are internet gurus so they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    Joe Mauer gets up on the point of his toe during his swings, and his toe skips forward. While he may feel like 70% of his weight is on his back leg, it's not reality.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    My problem with the idea of swivel is that I've never seen what's demonstrated as swivel actually appear in a good swing.

    If it's so important, it should be equally obvious.

    That's why I think it's at most a cue.

    P.S. Some of the attempts of convincing me of the existence of the swivel have been laughably bad.
    CO .... trust me, I'm not trying to be "laughably bad". I truly would like to see your kid make a successful come-back and look back favorably on his successes in baseball.

    Here's the challenge for you. You claim you can't "see it". Consider the following test. You set up the camera and video yourself. You hit off of a tee into a net. You do this with your normal swing. Then do this using the 'swivel'. Review the result. Tell me if you can "see" this "action under the hood" with your camera. After you run that test I have more for you. Of course, you could short-circuit this series of tests and visit that guy in SL. He may not like you ... but he'll treat your kid with respect and make him a hitter. But heck ... I'm up for the experiments. Let me know if you "see" 'swivel' when you apply it.

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucketdad View Post
    All I can say is, I call 'em as I see 'em.
    But I been told here at BBF that I'm out of my league.
    Which is fine with me.
    I disagree that my comments are crap.
    When I here current and former MBLers talk about the hands and how to use them, I listen and take notes.
    Recently, well last summer, I was at a clinic here in MN where Rod Carew explained to us how to swing the bat. The hands are active. But what does he know, right.
    Recently, well 2 winters ago, I was at a clinic here in MN where Joe Mauer explained how he swings the bat. The hands are active, but again, what does he know.
    A side note:
    Both Carew and Mauer said you hit from the back leg.
    Mauer said that when he decides to attack the ball and hit it, he is 70% weighted on the back leg. Carew also agrees with back leg hitting.
    But neither are internet gurus so they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
    You need to grow some skin pal.

    BD

    What is the definition of back leg hitting?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    Now c’mon, let’s be fair. No one is talking about using the hands in isolation and no one believes the hands can do much without drawing on other body segments.

    When that other website speaks of the “trifecta”, they are talking about three ‘actions’ taking place in parallel …. The ‘swivel’, ‘triangle’ and ‘tilt’. The “action” of “connection” is, IMO, well described. The action of “connection” is something that my kids readily grasp and understand. There is also a healthy description of how the rear leg & hip is involved … and the connection made between the ‘rear hip’ and the ‘hands/barrel’. It’s a pretty complete description IMO. I certainly wouldn't classify it as “silly” or “pathetic”.
    FFS,

    Here we go again. Someone posts something about a pro talking about their hands and I'm supposed to be impressed somehow. You then give me the argument that "no one believes the hands can do much without drawing on other body segments", and yet it's not the "other body segments" that is the point of this post, it's the same old tired "hands" arguments. If you think giving hand cues helps trigger other body parts to do their thing, fine, that's great. But believe it or not, it's easier for some to get the "other body segments" - the ones that are actually executing the swing- to do what they're supposed to do without having to use hand based cues.

    For people to not acknoweldge that it is even possible to teach a high level swing via non-hands based cues IS silly and pathetic, and yet this same "argument" has been espoused for the last 10 years.

    -JJA
    Last edited by JJA; 01-05-2010 at 12:04 PM.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cannonball View Post
    The SA remark is what it is and you know it. It was a shot at someone and those others who attempt to instruct without putting emphasis on the term "hands" as well. Those people, including myself, know that these responses are intended to incite.
    CB ..... 2009 was a great year. Your kid did great.

    On the topic of the 'hands' ...... I'm serious when I say that no one is talking about using the hands in isolation. It is well understood .... very well understood .... that the hands rely on other body segments.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveFrameSwing View Post
    CO .... trust me, I'm not trying to be "laughably bad". I truly would like to see your kid make a successful come-back and look back favorably on his successes in baseball.

    Here's the challenge for you. You claim you can't "see it". Consider the following test. You set up the camera and video yourself. You hit off of a tee into a net. You do this with your normal swing. Then do this using the 'swivel'. Review the result. Tell me if you can "see" this "action under the hood" with your camera. After you run that test I have more for you. Of course, you could short-circuit this series of tests and visit that guy in SL. He may not like you ... but he'll treat your kid with respect and make him a hitter. But heck ... I'm up for the experiments. Let me know if you "see" 'swivel' when you apply it.
    I'm not going to try to do it until I see it in a major leaguer's swing.

    The laughably bad clip was a C view of Manny where the rotation of the bat around the hands was supposed to represent the dumping of the barrel.

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