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Thread: McGwire confesses

  1. #201
    What do you guys think about the way Sammy Sosa and Mark McGwire acted during the 1998 season. They always acted like they were best friends and glad to be with each other, do you think they were just putting on an act?

  2. #202
    I think one of the most absurd things Mac said in an interview full of absurdity, is that La Russa "just learned this morning" that Mac used steroids

    I truly have no respect at all for La Russa, for a smart lawyer, to say he did not know that Canseco and Mac and others were using way back when is pure BS, and that as Mac went to STL it was even more obvious

    I consider La Russa as guilty as any player and the fact that he claims he did not know and based it on "weight training" is smoke screen 101
    Last edited by 9RoyHobbsRF; 01-13-2010 at 09:19 AM.
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  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    I consider La Russa as guilty as any player and the fact that he claims he did not know and based it on "weight training" is smoke screen 101
    Maybe he knew, but maybe he didn't. I think it'll certainly be taken into consideration in the future when he's up for consideration by the Veterans Committee much like Joe Torre's association with Roger Clemens, Andy Pettitte, Jason Giambi and Alex Rodriguez. I think La Russa certainly could have suspected it, but he had a long association with Mark McGwire going back to his days in Oakland. I don't think McGwire could ask for a better friend because La Russa certainly has had his back for years.

    I think McGwire gets the opportunity because he didn't burn his bridges on the way out of St. Louis. Sammy Sosa would never get the same opportunity in Chicago given his unceremonious exit at the end of the 2004 season. Given the stink bomb that Sosa laid in Chicago and the fact that he's allegedly on the 2003 list, it's no surprise that Sosa can't get a break like McGwire did. Barry Bonds is far too much of a media liability for anyone to touch him. Roger Clemens is about as much of a pariah as Bonds is. Let's not even get into Rafael Palmeiro and his inglorious end. Jose Canseco? Does he need mentioning? Does it bother me that these clowns have no involvement in baseball? Not at all.

    It does bother me that Mark McGwire is allowed to be involved in baseball considering he was the epicenter of the steroid era. But I am a practical person and I believe a business should be able to hire anyone. McGwire was not banned from baseball and even though he should be, he was not banned. That gives a team a right to employ him.
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  4. #204
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    LaRussa certainly never aksed.... And of course Mark was not telling anyone.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by StanTheMan View Post
    LaRussa certainly never aksed.... And of course Mark was not telling anyone.
    Bingo. I don't think La Russa really wanted to know.
    RIP Ronnie James Dio (July 10, 1942 - May 16, 2010).

  6. #206
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    How can anyone suggest he should not be part of baseball at this point? I abhor what he did, his two public performances on the topic were
    sorry and laughable....

    But you do realize there are some PLAYERS on rosters who are in the
    same boat, right? And you want to prevent someone from COACHING?

    That renders One's opinion on the whole matter instantly inconsequential due to lack of.... Intelligence really. Unless you're also banning all
    users for life instantly.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  7. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    It has been over 40 years since Maris retired and over 20 years since he was on the ballot where he only got as high as 43% of the vote. Maris isn't going into the Hall.



    But he probably did do it with the help of benzedrine.


    McGwire
    Probably. Lets look at your probably, nothing new here with your view on past players.

    Your probably put up against some facts.

    Four hitters hit 61 or better. As far as we know only one has never been proven to have used any chemical substance, the other three have or admitted to using.

    Sosa and Bonds, news reports that they tested positive PED use.
    I don't see either challenging the reports.
    OK, want to toss out the Barry and PED use in the press, in 2006 he tested positive for amphetamine use. One hitter left, McGwire has admitted.

    You have a problem with past players, your opinion on Maris means noting against the facts. But I'm sure you will give another attempt to make some kind of a case.

    The three others did use a substance, fact.
    Last edited by SHOELESSJOE3; 01-13-2010 at 12:11 PM.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHOELESSJOE3 View Post
    Probably. Lets look at your probably, nothing new here with your view on past players.

    Your probably put up against some facts.

    Four hitters hit 61 or better. As far as we know only one has never been proven to have used any chemical substance, the other three have or admitted to using.

    Sosa and Bonds, news reports that they tested positive PED use.
    I don't see either challenging the reports.
    OK, want to toss out the Barry and PED use in the press, in 2006 he tested positive for amphetamine use. One hitter left, McGwire has admitted.

    You have a problem with past players, your opinion on Maris means noting against the facts. But I'm sure you will give another attempt to make some kind of a case.

    The three others did use a substance, fact.
    You are throwing around the word "fact" but the way you are using it does not actually mean "fact". What you are stating is in fact evidence that supports a view not facts.

    The facts of the case is that one player and one player alone has used drugs and hit over 60 homers and that player is Mark McGwire. We know this is a fact because he has admitted it. It is not a fact that Bonds or Sosa used drugs while hitting 60 plus homers. We have evidence that suggests they did but we do not have facts that they did. It isn't even a fact that Bonds tested positive for amphetamine use.

    As for evidence against Maris we have Max "Dr. Feelgood" Jacobson who was amphetamine doctor to NYC in that era. He was a presence in the Yankee clubhouse for years and it was Jacobson who gave Mantle the shot that led to him being sidelined at the end of 61. Is it a fact that Maris used? Nope. Is there some evidence that suggests that he might have used? Yes, but it isn't a lot.

  9. #209
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    You are throwing around the word "fact" but the way you are using it does not actually mean "fact". What you are stating is in fact evidence that supports a view not facts.

    The facts of the case is that one player and one player alone has used drugs and hit over 60 homers and that player is Mark McGwire. We know this is a fact because he has admitted it. It is not a fact that Bonds or Sosa used drugs while hitting 60 plus homers. We have evidence that suggests they did but we do not have facts that they did. It isn't even a fact that Bonds tested positive for amphetamine use.

    As for evidence against Maris we have Max "Dr. Feelgood" Jacobson who was amphetamine doctor to NYC in that era. He was a presence in the Yankee clubhouse for years and it was Jacobson who gave Mantle the shot that led to him being sidelined at the end of 61. Is it a fact that Maris used? Nope. Is there some evidence that suggests that he might have used? Yes, but it isn't a lot.
    OJ was judged not guilty, but we all know who did it.

  10. #210
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    On the day that McGwire confessed, a woman on the NBC Nightly News (or it may have been ABC News) said that during the 1998 season, McGwire and Sosa were nicknamed "the twin towers." Has anyone ever heard of them being called that?

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by yamsi12 View Post
    OJ was judged not guilty, but we all know who did it.
    Which doesn't make it a fact. There is a lot of things "we all know" that are actually false. Common opinion even if it is an overwhelming majority does not make something a fact.

  12. #212
    Did not Bonds admit in court that he used the cream and the clear on the advice of his trainer, but he never questioned what they were? I can't remember the particulars, but I seem to recall that the phrase "never knowingly used steroids" was centered around that detail.

  13. #213
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    Bonds admitted to using liquids that were creamy and liquids that were clear. Bonds has stated he did not use steroids. It was never established that these creamy liquids and clear liquids were steroids.

  14. #214

  15. #215
    It was never established? "The clear" is THG, a steroid. Are you saying that this wasn't shown in court at the time? Even if this is true, does this mean Barry Bonds never took steroids?

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose Rounding Third View Post
    It was never established? "The clear" is THG, a steroid. Are you saying that this wasn't shown in court at the time? Even if this is true, does this mean Barry Bonds never took steroids?
    Yes and Bonds never said he took "The Clear".

    In all probability Bonds took steroids but his court testimony does not have him admitting this.

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Rose Rounding Third View Post
    It was never established? "The clear" is THG, a steroid. Are you saying that this wasn't shown in court at the time? Even if this is true, does this mean Barry Bonds never took steroids?
    Pardon my ignorance, but what effects does a cream have when compared to injections?
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  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    As for evidence against Maris we have Max "Dr. Feelgood" Jacobson who was amphetamine doctor to NYC in that era. He was a presence in the Yankee clubhouse for years and it was Jacobson who gave Mantle the shot that led to him being sidelined at the end of 61. Is it a fact that Maris used? Nope. Is there some evidence that suggests that he might have used? Yes, but it isn't a lot.
    What? As evidence against Maris, you have the doctor who gave Mantle a shot? That's some hard evidence there. You already connected Tom Seaver to steroids on no evidence whatsoever, now it's Maris on amphetamine!

    We know McGwire is guilty, deal with it. We're not here to talk about the past.
    "Tactics were resorted to, unworthy of fair, manly players" - Brooklyn Eagle, June 12,1890

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    What? As evidence against Maris, you have the doctor who gave Mantle a shot? That's some hard evidence there. You already connected Tom Seaver to steroids on no evidence whatsoever, now it's Maris on amphetamine!
    Evidence is required? Is that why people like to keep bringing Pujols' name into saying he has done steriods too?
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  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    What? As evidence against Maris, you have the doctor who gave Mantle a shot? That's some hard evidence there. You already connected Tom Seaver to steroids on no evidence whatsoever, now it's Maris on amphetamine!

    We know McGwire is guilty, deal with it. We're not here to talk about the past.
    What exactly am I supposed to deal with in terms of McGwire's guilt?

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    What exactly am I supposed to deal with in terms of McGwire's guilt?
    I don't know but you seem to be having trouble accepting it, trying to paint everybody who ever played the game with the same brush. Tom Seaver? Roger Maris?
    "Tactics were resorted to, unworthy of fair, manly players" - Brooklyn Eagle, June 12,1890

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by ol' aches and pains View Post
    I don't know but you seem to be having trouble accepting it, trying to paint everybody who ever played the game with the same brush. Tom Seaver? Roger Maris?
    Accepting what? That he took steroids? I don't care if he took steroids. I don't care if Tom Seaver used or did not use. I don't care if Maris was getting shots or not. It wouldn't change how I view any of these ballplayers.

    And yes I do paint everybody who ever played the game with the same brush, the human brush.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Bonds admitted to using liquids that were creamy and liquids that were clear. Bonds has stated he did not use steroids. It was never established that these creamy liquids and clear liquids were steroids.
    $10 if you make this EXACT statement your sig for two weeks...
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

  24. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Ubiquitous View Post
    Accepting what? That he took steroids? I don't care if he took steroids. I don't care if Tom Seaver used or did not use. I don't care if Maris was getting shots or not. It wouldn't change how I view any of these ballplayers.

    And yes I do paint everybody who ever played the game with the same brush, the human brush.
    Beating around the bush again.The poster did not question whether you care or not, cut the smoke screen, that you continue to use.

    He brought up the fact that your supposing Maris used benzedrine, deal with the issue, Maris and using a substance. You missed your calling in life, you should have been an attorney...... just throw something out there, maybe some on will buy.

    Whats the nonsense about the human brush.
    Because some moderns have got caught in the act, your supposing just about every player from the past used a substance............give us some evidence on Maris.

  25. #225
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Venom View Post
    Bingo. I don't think La Russa really wanted to know.


    Of course he didn't want to know.... Just like Selig, the other owners, and Fehr. He11 the first tests were "confidential" until the govt said, "excuse us.... paper cover rock on this one. BTW, we're not rocks."

    The true justice of it all is that many who purposefully turned a blind eye now have egg on it... On the entire face actually.
    "Herman Franks to Sal Yvars to Bobby Thomson. Ralph Branca to Bobby Thomson to Helen Rita... cue Russ Hodges."

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