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Thread: Worst clubhouse chemistry guys

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by banny View Post
    If you watch the film clip of that play, it looks to me as if Willie Randolph is just as lazy as Reggie. The ball drops in between them and Reggie moves in with his body upright. Willie actually looks closer to picking the ball up than Jackson,but Reggie waves him off with his hand. I think they both kind of loafed on it, but since Martin seemed to have it in for Reggie, he took the flak.
    Yes, it did 'look' like that. I suspect that each thought the other was going to take it. If they thought the other was going to take it, they both might look like they weren't hustling. Reggie had that kind of rep. Willie, OTOH, wasn't known for that. Did either one ever call for the ball?

    Jax was a prima donna. One of favs but still a prima donna. Billy Martin was a Manager who had to have control. I think Billy wanted to take Reggie down a peg, let him know that it didn't matter if he was the star or not. It also sent a message to the other players although I think most of the other Yankees secretly were glad Billy did what he did.

    Having been a manager for years (in a company not baseball of course) you never ever discipline someone in front of their peers. It has to be done in private.

    Yankees Fan Since 1957

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by SavoyBG View Post
    Depends on the player, it worked well for Gil Hodges when he showed up Cleon Jones in public that time.
    Agreed, also depends on the situation. In 1981 I saw Herzog grab Templeton by his shoulders and toss him on the bench after Templeton had again failed to run out a ball and when the crowd booed him, he responded by giving them the finger and grabbing his crotch. In this case, I don't think that Herzog was just upset with Tempy loafing again, but with the rude gestures he was disrespecting the entire Cardinal organization as well as their profession.

    Mike Shannon, the Cards long time announcer, who was also a pretty decent player in the 60's, mentioned that when he was in the minors he was getting a bit cocky and failed to run out a ball. Harry Walker was his manager and told him that baseball is a tough game to play well at the pro level. Hitting is hard and the pitching gets better at every level. Running to a gap in the outfield to try and catch a smash that's been hit 380' is difficult, as well as trying to throw out a runner or hit a cut off man. But hustling isn't hard, it just requires the discipline and will to constantly do on the field.
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  3. #43
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    As a general rule, I still believe managers (in baseball or business) should discipline employees in private, but in the Templeton case, I agree Herzog was justified.
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  4. #44
    Part of the issue is what works for the player. Durocher--and if things were bad with the Dodgers, consider what went on when he managed the Cubs and Astros--used to say that he could say the same sentence to Willie Mays and Sal Maglie, but he emphasized different words, as if to implore Willie and anger Maglie, because that's what worked. Cleon Jones may have needed the treatment Hodges gave him.

    In Martin's case, he hadn't wanted Jackson on the team and didn't like him. Both wanted to establish themselves as the boss. But Martin suffered from Durocher's disease: Leo used to say he'd play a convicted rapist at second if he could turn the double play, but both he and Billy tended to believe that if you weren't absolutely for them, you were against them. By contrast, Casey Stengel once said that on every team are five guys who love the manager, five who like him, five who don't care, five who hate him, and five who are trying to make up their minds, and it's the manager's job to keep the five who hate him away from the five undecideds.

    Also, we have to be careful of reputations. Guys who played with Ted Williams loved him, but the writers hated him, so he got a bad reputation. Greg Maddux looks strait-laced but apparently was the chief practical joker on every team he played for.

  5. #45
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    There are very few generally good rules that are so iron-clad that don't have exceptions. Most good rules do.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by swingman24 View Post
    Exactly. The previous post is a bit misleading. Trick-or-treaters? Please. Those kids or teenagers, which would be more appropriate, had it coming.

    If you egg my house; I'm coming for ya.
    Just don't do it with a car like Albert Belle did (to name another name)
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  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by yanks0714 View Post
    Jax was a prima donna. One of favs but still a prima donna. Billy Martin was a Manager who had to have control. I think Billy wanted to take Reggie down a peg, let him know that it didn't matter if he was the star or not. It also sent a message to the other players although I think most of the other Yankees secretly were glad Billy did what he did.

    Reggie Jackson has had his image made over the same as Muhammad Ali. In their time, they both were considered loudmouth idiots by a lot of people. Now, they're canonized by the media.
    "Hey Mr. McGraw! Can I pitch to-day?"

  8. #48
    Jeff "Barry Who?" Kent
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  9. #49
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    Orlando Cabrera, to name a current player. He'll be on his fifth team in four years this season, there's usually a reason for that.

    His one year (2008) with the White Sox did not endear him to players or management in Chicago. On more than one occasion, after being charged with an error, he would call the official scorer on the clubhouse phone during the game, trying to get the error reversed, charged to the first baseman, or whatever. He didn't exactly have a "team player" reputation.
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  10. #50
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    Did I nominate David Cone? (because of the bleach incident)
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

  11. #51
    John Rocker
    Jesse Burkett
    Johnny Evers
    Lefty Grove
    Ken Williams (Stl Browns)
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  12. #52
    He'll be on his fifth team in four years this season, there's usually a reason for that.

    example A = Rogers Hornsby
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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9RoyHobbsRF View Post
    He'll be on his fifth team in four years this season, there's usually a reason for that.

    example A = Rogers Hornsby
    Then I think you've GOT to include Mr. 1977, Dave Kingman
    Mythical SF Chronicle scouting report: "That Jeff runs like a deer. Unfortunately, he also hits AND throws like one." I am Venus DeMilo - NO ARM! I can play like a big leaguer, I can field like Luzinski, run like Lombardi. The secret to managing is keeping the ones who hate you away from the undecided ones. I am a triumph of quantity over quality. I'm almost useful, every village needs an idiot.
    Good traders: MadHatter(2), BoofBonser26, StormSurge

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Victory Faust View Post
    Reggie Jackson has had his image made over the same as Muhammad Ali. In their time, they both were considered loudmouth idiots by a lot of people. Now, they're canonized by the media.
    I agree about Reggie. Saw an interview with him a few years ago where he was criticizing today's players for not respecting the game and appreciating what they have, etc. I thought to myself, how can he be saying this...considering he was the original a-hole!

  15. #55
    The producers of the old Home Run derby television show. They used to pay pitchers to give up home runs balls, and you can't get much worse for clubhouse chemistry than that.

  16. #56
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    I'm stunned that no one has mentioned Milton Bradley yet.

    Chris Brown, former Giant third baseman, was another poison pill; a loafer and a malingerer.
    "I do not care if half the league strikes. Those who do it will encounter quick retribution. All will be suspended and I don't care if it wrecks the National League for five years. This is the United States of America and one citizen has as much right to play as another. The National League will go down the line with Robinson whatever the consequences. You will find if you go through with your intention that you have been guilty of complete madness."

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  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuzzy Bear View Post
    I'm stunned that no one has mentioned Milton Bradley yet.
    First sentence of the first post...
    Shalom, y'all!
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  18. #58
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    You have to throw Gary Shefiedl into this discussion as well. Absolutely a horrible person to have in the clubhouse. He badtalked every team he had been with previously, i was so happy when Detroit got rid of him. He was a cancer with every team he played for imo.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by jbenchley View Post
    You have to throw Gary Shefiedl into this discussion as well. Absolutely a horrible person to have in the clubhouse. He badtalked every team he had been with previously, i was so happy when Detroit got rid of him. He was a cancer with every team he played for imo.
    Sheffield was great his first year in Detroit, especially with Curtis Granderson. His second year, though, is when he stopped being so helpful. Pretty much controlling whatever music was played in the clubhouse was one thing that stands out for me.
    Dave Bill Tom George Mark Bob Ernie Soupy Dick Alex Sparky
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    Gates Philip John Warrior Rik Casey Tony Horace
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  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by jbenchley View Post
    You have to throw Gary Shefiedl into this discussion as well. Absolutely a horrible person to have in the clubhouse. He badtalked every team he had been with previously, i was so happy when Detroit got rid of him. He was a cancer with every team he played for imo.
    Thats for sure. I recall when he was with the Yanks, after the first couple of years broadcasters were saying, don't see any problems with Gary. Not like his past track record, looks fine with the Yanks.
    Until Gary left.............her comes the old Gary, first it was two other former teams, Brewers and Dodgers, not treating him fair, it was his skin color. Now he leaves the Yanks and bad mouths Joe Torre, according to Gary, Joe treats white and black player differently.
    Whats amazing on this board is some come to Gary's defense, it's earlier problems in life, his skin color, lets cut him some slack.
    OK Gary is right and others are wrong, three diferent teams, all wrong, not treating him fair..........sure.

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