Worst clubhouse chemistry guys

[CandlestickBum]

Most people think it was just that he didn't want to be there so he was acting out in order to get moved. But trust me, he was a huge pain the one season he was there, so his acting out worked for him.

Reading between the lines, I was under the impression that he was a blowhard, and inavertently(?) insulted a clubhouse leader, pretty sure it was a pitcher, which as a sign of unanimity the rest of the clubhouse turned against AJ. It sure seemed like some clique thing where he was ostrasized pretty early on and he was too proud to bend and get past it.
And yeah, he made some a-hole quotes that were printed, and pitchers gripes of lazyness about catching warm ups or something as well.
If the pitching staff doesn't like a catcher, forgettaboutit.

[Ubiquitous]

AJ is an a******** but when you win people are willing to take it. Ozzie used to make jokes about how bad AJ's personality is, I don't know if he still does. It was pretty common knowledge that AJ was one of the most hated players in the league. During spring training with the Giants AJ took a ball to the nuts and the trainer ran out to him and ask him how did it feel and he replied by punching the trainer in the nuts and saying "like this".

[ol' aches and pains]

AJ is an a******** but when you win people are willing to take it. Ozzie used to make jokes about how bad AJ's personality is, I don't know if he still does. It was pretty common knowledge that AJ was one of the most hated players in the league. During spring training with the Giants AJ took a ball to the nuts and the trainer ran out to him and ask him how did it feel and he replied by punching the trainer in the nuts and saying "like this".

I've heard that story, and I agree it takes an A------ to do that. But again, AJ has been with the Sox for five+ seasons now, and a clubhouse cancer doesn't stay in one place for five years unless he's Barry Bonds. I think he may have grown up some since his year with the Jints.

[Ubiquitous]

I'm not claiming he is a clubhouse cancer. Frankly, I don't think fans have the first clue as to who is or isn't a clubhouse cancer.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

I always heard A.J. Pierzynski got a bad rap in SanFransico because one time instead of going over the opposing teams lineups he was playing cards and also I heard that alot of the SF players were really religous and A.J. rubbed those guys the wrong way. He does seem kinda arrogant though and i've heard he sometimes acts like a diva. There was a story once about him and the batboy or clubhouse kid and he went off on the poor kid for not packing his bats in the way he liked em packed. I would say he's well liked though in the Sox clubhouse unlike Frank Thomas who was despised by most teammates.

In a spring training game he payed 100 bucks to any Sox hitter who hit a homerun off any of those Giants pitchers who gave him the slacker rap.

[leewileyfan]

John Rocker
Jesse Burkett
Johnny Evers
Lefty Grove
Ken Williams (Stl Browns)

Ken Williams? Why?

[Joltin' Joe]

I'm not claiming he is a clubhouse cancer. Frankly, I don't think fans have the first clue as to who is or isn't a clubhouse cancer.

Can one player actually have a "cancerous" effect on a baseball team? I can see how one "carcinogen" can be detrimental to a basketball team but in baseball?

[SHOELESSJOE3]

Can one player actually have a "cancerous" effect on a baseball team? I can see how one "carcinogen" can be detrimental to a basketball team but in baseball?

I always have a problem with clubhouse cancers. How much could it hurt a team. What effect if any does it carry on to the playing field., It's something that just can't be measured and thats the problem.

[augustabound]

I always have a problem with clubhouse cancers. How much could it hurt a team. What effect if any does it carry on to the playing field., It's something that just can't be measured and thats the problem.

I agree with both Shoeless and Joltin' Joe here. As much as baseball is a team sport, it's very independent as far as each play goes (with the exception of the battery and double play combos).

Other sports rely more on chemistry since each play involves all the players on the floor/field/ice.

[Los Bravos]

Can one player actually have a "cancerous" effect on a baseball team? I can see how one "carcinogen" can be detrimental to a basketball team but in baseball?

I'm still getting grief for John Rocker.

[Victory Faust]

I always have a problem with clubhouse cancers. How much could it hurt a team. What effect if any does it carry on to the playing field., It's something that just can't be measured and thats the problem.

You're right; it absolutely cannot be measured. You also can't measure exactly when it's time to end a job, or a marriage, either, but at some point you decide the negatives outweigh the positives. Same thing with clubhouse cancers. Just because it can't be quantified doesn't mean it isn't something people who run baseball teams don't have to deal with.

For example, last year, the Mariners -- a sabermetric team if ever there was one -- decided to cut Milton Bradley after only 28 games. Granted, he was having a horrible year, and coming off his worst season ever, in which he appeared in just 73 games. But we're talking about a 33-year-old only three years removed from a fantastic 2008 season, and who had been a damn fine ballplayer up to that point.

Yet, because the Mariners couldn't find anyone who wanted this clubhouse cancer in a trade, they decided to eat his $13 million contract and just release him.

From a cold-eyed analystical standpoint, the smart thing to do would have been to either keep letting him play (after all, it was just May when they jettisoned him); or else bench him in hopes that a little time off would help him regain his earlier form. You wouldn't just release a 33-year-old player who had been, up until recently, a really good ballplayer...unless there were other issues that made it not worth having him around.

In the real world, when you're talking about a headcase like Bradley, keeping him on the team was apparently far more trouble than it was worth. So Jack Z, of Moneyball fame, decided to pay Bradley $13 million to leave, and stop poisoning his clubhouse.

[fishermanjim]

Don't know if I missed it but did anyone say Carl Everett? He was a #1 pick by the Yankees and they let him go to the Marlins in the expansion draft. He also played for Boston and the Mets. During his time with the Mets there was a front-page story detailing how his children, when dropped off at the Shea Stadium daycare center for players families, had bruises that suggested they were beaten and/or abused. I'm not sure what Everett's defense was....he may have blamed his wife. But I certainly remember the headlines in the NY Daily News.

[Herr28]

Scott Rolen and Stormin' Gorman Thomas.

I remember reading as a kid in the mid or late 80s that Thomas had ticked off his Brewers teammates time and again by faking injury so he wouldn't have to do his running either in spring training or before games (or both). Rather he would just take it easy on the bench by himself and watch everyone else run. Cancer? I don't know. I just remember that apparently this went over like a fart in church for a few Brewer players.

I love Scotty Rolen and will always remember his production and great glove work for my Birds during the great years in the mid 00s, but he was well known to have blow outs with management in St Louis and also Philly I believe. Again, cancer? Don't know. Just not conducive to a positive clubhouse atmosphere when you got issues like that.

[EdTarbusz]

According to the recent biography of Roy Campanella after about 1952 Jackie Robinson was a clubhouse cancer in Brooklyn, especially among the black players. According to the author because of this Robinson trades were routinly rumored for the last five years of his career. I've read a lot about Robinson and don't know if I'm ready to believe he was a cancerous element in the Dodgers clubhouse, but I do believe that even in the best circumstances that he would have been a difficult person to get along with.

[chicagowhitesox1173]

According to the recent biography of Roy Campanella after about 1952 Jackie Robinson was a clubhouse cancer in Brooklyn, especially among the black players. According to the author because of this Robinson trades were routinly rumored for the last five years of his career. I've read a lot about Robinson and don't know if I'm ready to believe he was a cancerous element in the Dodgers clubhouse, but I do believe that even in the best circumstances that he would have been a difficult person to get along with.

That is interesting I wonder if the new movie will show that side of him if it is true.

[Joltin' Joe]

I've read a lot about Robinson and don't know if I'm ready to believe he was a cancerous element in the Dodgers clubhouse, but I do believe that even in the best circumstances that he would have been a difficult person to get along with.

If this is true, it makes it even more remarkable that he kept his promise with Branch Rickey and during the promised duration, kept his cool and didn't talk back, retaliate, or fight back.

[EdTarbusz]

If this is true, it makes it even more remarkable that he kept his promise with Branch Rickey and during the promised duration, kept his cool and didn't talk back, retaliate, or fight back.

Eig's Opening Day showed that Robinson did instigate some opponents in 1947.

[Joltin' Joe]

Eig's Opening Day showed that Robinson did instigate some opponents in 1947.

instigate or retaliate?

[EdTarbusz]

instigate or retaliate?

I think it depends on your perspective. I came away thinking it was a little of both.

[Joe Barrie]

There are many good candidates who have been mentioned on the last several years. A few seem mentally unhinged, but most just seem like lousy people.

I'd like to offer up Jake Powell, who preceded Rocker by three decades. His response to an anti-black tirade he broadcast was to go to saloons in Harlem, identify himself, and buy everyone drinks. Years later he was arrested for passing a bad check and blew his brains out in a police station. Then there is Ben Chapman, a vicious bigot as a player and as a manager.

Let us not forget the famous "Cap" Anson, who re-segregated organized baseball, which action lasted almost 70 years.

[TyrusRaymondCobb]

That is interesting I wonder if the new movie will show that side of him if it is true.

Probably not.

Robinson did get traded in the end - to the Giants. Decided to retire, though, citing "injury".

[Ubiquitous]

Roy and Jackie did not get along so that probably plays a part in any story being told.

Walter and Jackie also didn't get along. Bavasi claims/hints that Walter ordered the trade because Jackie partied too much.

Jackie had already decided to quit baseball before the trade to the Giants. He had sold the exclusive rights to the announcement to Look Magazine and had a signed a contract with Chock Full O'Nuts restaurants before the trade was ever made. He had sold the rights to Look Magazine two years earlier as part of three part series.

When news of Robinson's retirement leaked Bavasi and Walter were furious and that is when the barbs came out.

During all of these squabbles Robinson made some, what he thought were off the record comments, about how much Campy had left and the reporter ran with it. What Robinson actually said is disputed but regardless of that the always "respectable" Dick Young went running to Campy and informed him that Jackie said that he, Campy, was washed up and what did he think about that. It was at that moment that Campy unloaded on Young just what he thought of Robinson. Accused him of stirring stuff up in the clubhouse, making a lot of trouble, and creating a lot of enemies. There is some truth to that. Jackie believed a black celebrity needed to be a vocal activist for his culture and society. Campy was much more laid back and easy going. Campy didn't like to stir up trouble or rock the boat publicly and the two clashed at times because of this.

[leewileyfan]

At the bottom line, a baseball dugout and the clubhouse are dorms where young, often immature and fragile egos are housed together for much of a year, and tossed into competitive arenas to survive their "time in the sun."

There is also a backdrop of pseudo-macho history and tradition [much posturing BS] that engenders edginess and resentment, grudges and revenge ... a kind of schoolyard mentality imposed upon [today] competing young millionaires.

Then too, you get some genuinely sick puppies and over-inflated egos tossed into the mix. Fold in managers whose authority status is as permanent as yesterday's jock strap; and you have a real family affair.

The guys I most admire are the gentle giants. These are the pros, the peacekeepers, the players who grind it out year in and year out, leading [if at all] by quiet example: Charlie Keller, Bill Dickey, Ted Williams [when he drew criticism, he drew all flak to himself - to the clubhouse]; Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard, Gil Hodges, Hank Greenberg, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente, Tim Raines.

They were big, either by sheer size, talent, effort, or example ... or a combination of all of the above. The brats, cheap-shot artists, clubhouse bare knuckle brawlers ... NEVER seemed to approach anywhere within their orbits ... they knew better.

[Ya don't pull on Superman's cape ... ya don't spit in the wind ... ya don't tug the mask off the Ole Lone Ranger ... etc.].

P.S. I think I'd add Derek Jeter into that mix as well.

[Jackaroo Dave]

The guys I most admire are the gentle giants. These are the pros, the peacekeepers, the players who grind it out year in and year out, leading [if at all] by quiet example: Charlie Keller, Bill Dickey, Ted Williams [when he drew criticism, he drew all flak to himself - to the clubhouse]; Harmon Killebrew, Frank Howard, Gil Hodges, Hank Greenberg, Hank Aaron, Roberto Clemente

Interesting you should mention Clemente, leewileyfan, because as I'm sure you remember too, before his canonization, he got some bad press for being a malcontent who would not play hurt, duck difficult games, and so forth. But I never heard a bad word said about him by any teammate, and they were rhe ones who would be let down if such were so.

Of course Clemente was a proud Puerto Rican, and that did not sit well with some of the press.

[leewileyfan]

Funny thing, how one link in a thread of exchanged observations can send one [me] off into tangents that somehow bring us right back on track ... right back where we started.

Example: Yep, I had heard the complaints about Clemente; but, having seen him play and observed how his presence seemed to be a PLUS on the team's performance, I opted to ignore much of the negative stuff.

Now, aside from participating in these threads, I am spending a few hours a day editing and polishing my book manuscript that I put on the shelf a few years back. dealing with the evolution of MLB defense [1901-present]. Just having finished refining that data for 1980, I have been constantly reminded in recent evenings about a player I always had as an almost subliminal favorite, Rico Carty.

In just the last few days, I have been looking for personal information on Carty and have been led into several side streets. I had never realized that he had struggled with tuberculosis that had cost him a full season. Different searches revealed how uniquely warm, charming and attentive he had been with young fans ... generous with time and autographs. I knew of his crushed knee in a Winter League OF collision; but the several dislocated shoulder injuries had escaped me.

Just two hours ago, I saw a snippet that had Carty involved in fights with teammates; and I had to press further. That took me into the writing of an allegedly revered GA sportswriter [just recently deceased] named Furman Bisher.

There was a fight[s] that involved Rico Carty and Hank Aaron ... Joe Torre, PARAPHRASED from Mr. Bisher, and unclear as to instigators. It appears severe bad blood existed between Aaron and Joe Torre for some time; but Carty somehow did not seem to fit in.

A propos of this thread, we fans are really out of the loop on the REALITY of clubhouse politics and shenanigans and have to rely on the media for whatever slant they put on them.

Running contrary to the hostile image, I came across an ALLEGED exchange between Carty and Sandy Koufax. Koufax had fanned Carty in three consecutive at bats. Cart batted in the lineup ahead of Aaron:

CARTY: Koufax! You mad at me?"

KOUFAX: "As long as you hit in front of Aaron, you'll have trouble with me!"

I doubt the likes of this would ever start a Carty-Aaron dust-up.