Daniel Murphy - Thoughts?

[Paulypal]

I'm not great with math and barely understand saber-stuff, so I did a simple breakdown of the players mentioned in an earlier post. I consider (at least hitter-wise) OPS+ a decent measure for a player. Granted there are other things like SBs and all, but I'm not too concerned with that overall with these guys. It's a pretty simple breakdown that I sorted by OPS+. It's based on the past two seasons since a couple weren't in the league in 2010.

I find the final column interesting. How much does each point of OPS+ cost over what's considered "avarage" (100).

            '11/'12  '11/'12  Cost per each
Name    Age   OPS+   Salary     OPS+ >100
----    ---   ----   ------     ---------
Cano     30   137    $24M         $650K
Zobrist  31   131    $9M          $290K
Murphy   27   120    $900K        $45K
Pedroia  29   116    $13.5M       $840K
Walker   27   115    $900K        $60K
Kendrick 29   114    $8M          $570K
Kinsler  30   113    $13M         $1.0M
Phillips 31   113    $23.5M       $1.8M
Kipnis   25   110    $500K        $50K
Uggla    32   102    $22M         $11.0M
Hill     30    93    $10.5M       -----

No surprise that the best bargains are from the players in pre-arb or just entering arb since their overall cost is low. Overall, Zobrist may be the best deal since he's 2nd in OPS+ while towards the bottom in terms of cost for what he delivers.

Good list but I would take Cano over anyone on that list 10x a day despite perceived lack of value.

[CokeMachineGlow]

wRC+ utilizes a more refined statistic in wOBA to produce something similar along the lines of OPS+, but considerably more accurate. By that, the following top ten looks like this:

1. Robinson Cano (146 wRC+)
2. Ben Zobrist (124 wRC+)
3. Neil Walker (118 wRC+)
4. Aaron Hill (117 wRC+)
5. Jose Altuve (114 wRC+)
6. Ian Kinsler (113 wRC+)
7. Daniel Murphy (112 wRC+)
8. Brandon Phillips (111 wRC+)
9. Omar Infante (105 wRC+)
10. Jason Kipnis (103 wRC+)

Reminder: This is merely an offensive measuring stick - fielding is not calculated.

I underestimated Murphy's performance, and I certainly enjoy watching him play, but certain users tend to overrate him on this forum.

[Ben Grimm]

wRC+ utilizes a more refined statistic in wOBA to produce something similar along the lines of OPS+, but considerably more accurate. By that, the following top ten looks like this:

Pardon my ignorance, but I really have no idea... I assume the RC means runs created. Is OBA the same as OB%? Also, what's the little "w" prefix mean?

Lastly, are the numbers you show calculated by yourself or is there a site that actually shows these statistics for every player?

[CokeMachineGlow]

Pardon my ignorance, but I really have no idea... I assume the RC means runs created. Is OBA the same as OB%? Also, what's the little "w" prefix mean?

Lastly, are the numbers you show calculated by yourself or is there a site that actually shows these statistics for every player?

No, it's great that you're broadening your horizons.

wRC+ stands for weighted runs created plus, which attempts to quantify a player's total offensive value and measure it by runs. wRC+, like OPS+, is league and park adjusted, allowing one to compare players from different years, parks, and leagues. wRC+ accounts for plate discipline, power, contact, speed - if it's within the offensive spectrum of baseball it's more than likely incorporated. If there is any flaw in this statistic, it's that it doesn't account for intangibles and playing time.

wOBA stands for weighted on-base average, which also attempts quantify's a players offensive production, but doesn't measure it by runs. For each possible event, (walks, hit by pitches, singles, doubles, triples, home runs, stolen bases, caught stealings) a value is attached. This value is indicative of the event. For example, a walk is worth .72 and a single .90, while a homerun is worth 1.95, as it is the best possible outcome of the event. wOBA is scaled similarly to OBP. A 'league average' hitter will have a wOBA ~.320. Anything under .300 is bad, and anything approaching .400 is outstanding.

I don't calculate the numbers myself, but I go on FanGraphs.com to acquire the data.

[Ben Grimm]

No, it's great that you're broadening your horizons.

wRC+ stands for weighted runs created plus, which attempts to quantify a player's total offensive value and measure it by runs. wRC+, like OPS+, is league and park adjusted, allowing one to compare players from different years, parks, and leagues. wRC+ accounts for plate discipline, power, contact, speed - if it's within the offensive spectrum of baseball it's more than likely incorporated. If there is any flaw in this statistic, it's that it doesn't account for intangibles and playing time.

wOBA stands for weighted on-base average, which also attempts quantify's a players offensive production, but doesn't measure it by runs. For each possible event, (walks, hit by pitches, singles, doubles, triples, home runs, stolen bases, caught stealings) a value is attached. This value is indicative of the event. For example, a walk is worth .72 and a single .90, while a homerun is worth 1.95, as it is the best possible outcome of the event. wOBA is scaled similarly to OBP. A 'league average' hitter will have a wOBA ~.320. Anything under .300 is bad, and anything approaching .400 is outstanding.

I don't calculate the numbers myself, but I go on FanGraphs.com to acquire the data.

Thanks much for this - I appreciate it.

I hate sounding like a moron, but I've spent the last 10 years on a site that pretty much didn't like or understand any statistic that wasn't on the back of a 1970s baseball card. To put it this way, up until a few years ago, many of them believed Wins to be as or more important than ERA or WHIP when it came to evaluating a pitcher's performance. RBIs were the tell-tale sign of a player's production - whether he hit 1st, 4th or 8th in a lineup. And simple things like OPS would make their heads explode. I would use these minor, easy to understand metrics and I was considered the site nerd.

So here, they are used much more often - especially stuff like WAR which I'm still trying to get my head around. I'm a fairly quick learner, but all help and info I can get will give me a better understanding of what many on this site are talking about.

Thanks again

[Mongoose]

Murphy had a decent year. He improved immensely at second base by year's end. He's respectable now and make some gems. His occasional struggles at the plate might have been related to the extra work in the field, but he hit a respectable .291 with 40 doubles and was .311/.347/.458 from June 27th on.

And...

Congrats to Murph, who's getting married tomorrow.

http://couples.weddingchannel.com/co...occ=579383866&

http://www.amazingregistry.com/weddi...shx?a=73407614

I've always perceived him as a baseball fanatic and diamond rat. (Like a gym rat only on a baseball diamond. Does this term exist?) Well it should come as no surprise his fiancee is a former Division 1 college softball player.

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/200...ounty-softball

She's kind of appealing. Seems devout like him. Also he can enjoy conjugal pleasures and discuss his swing/mechanics/fielding afterwards. Win/win for everyone.

I think they make a cute couple.

[trepye]

Here is a though..... Daniel Murphy in 2012:

6 Home runs. One, thats right 1, hit at Citifield.

Another piece of evidence of the complete fabrication that closer fences would somehow help this franchise.

[Paulypal]

Here is a though..... Daniel Murphy in 2012:

6 Home runs. One, thats right 1, hit at Citifield.

Another piece of evidence of the complete fabrication that closer fences would somehow help this franchise.

First of all it will help this franchise when they put a major league team on the field. Thats one.

Two -- Way to go and use Murphy a guy with 6 homers on the year. If thats the power source your looking at then the Mets are in bigger trouble than even I thought. No way a guy with 6 homers can be an anamoly right? No Way!!!

But...just in case lets take at a guy with legit 30+ home run power. Our new millionaire...David Wright--

2012 was the first time he hit more homers at home than away since they built that mistake in Flushing. 2009 he hit (5/5) 2010 (12/17) 2011 (5/9). Now you use Murphy as your example....sort of reaching dont you think? Wright also had his highest OPS since 2008 in the revamped Citi.

Being that you reached with Murphy...I am taking one free reach with Scott Hairston who was (2/5) in 2011 and (11/9) in 2012 with the new dimensions.

Citi still isnt a band box, but it plays much more fair than it did in its original hideous state.

[Paulypal]

Here is a though..... Daniel Murphy in 2012:

6 Home runs. One, thats right 1, hit at Citifield.

Another piece of evidence of the complete fabrication that closer fences would somehow help this franchise.

First of all it will help this franchise when they put a major league team on the field. Thats one.

Two -- Way to go and use Murphy a guy with 6 homers on the year. If thats the power source your looking at then the Mets are in bigger trouble than even I thought. No way a guy with 6 homers can be an anamoly right? No Way!!!

But...just in case lets take at a guy with legit 30+ home run power. Our new millionaire...David Wright--

2012 was the first time he hit more homers at home than away since they built that mistake in Flushing. 2009 he hit (5/5) 2010 (12/17) 2011 (5/9). Now you use Murphy as your example....sort of reaching dont you think? Wright also had his highest OPS since 2008 in the revamped Citi.

Being that you reached with Murphy...I am taking one free reach with Scott Hairston who was (2/5) in 2011 and (11/9) in 2012 with the new dimensions.

Citi still isnt a band box, but it plays much more fair than it did in its original hideous state.

[Mongoose]

He's not even top ten. In no particular order:

Kinsler
Cano
Pedroia
Phillips
Zobrist
Hill
Kipnis
Uggla
Kendrick
Walker

Told you so.

http://metsblog.com/metsblog/daniel-...econd-basemen/

Daniel Murphy to be featured on MLBN’s ‘Top 10 Right Now: Second Basemen’

January 11th, 2013 4:21 pm

Tonight at 10:00 pm ET, Daniel Murphy will be featured on MLB Network’s ‘Top 10 Right Now: Second Basemen.’

“Take a look at the best batting averages over the last three years at this position, only Robbie Cano is higher than Murphy’s .302,” MLB Network’s Brian Kenny says of Murphy. “OPS+ over the last two seasons, now that takes into account park effects, and Murphy is there behind Cano, Pedroia, Kendrick and that’s it.”

The network’s editorial staff and on-air talent – including John Hart and Harold Reynolds – determined the rankings of the top ten second basemen using a number of factors, including offense, defense, upside and leadership.

In addition, renowned author Bill James gives his personal list of the top ten second basemen in the game.

Michael Baron, MetsBlog.com:

Murphy is still a work-in-progress at second base. However, he was better than I expected he would be there last year, and he clearly became more and more comfortable turning two and with his footwork and positioning around the bag. He also showed more range than I expected as well. Murphy is athletic, determined and dedicated – he worked very hard during Spring Training last year to improve and become effective at the position, and I think the work showed. For now, he is the answer at the position; other than Reese Havens (who is a question mark) and maybe Wilmer Flores, there’s nobody else coming from the inside. And so, I am looking forward to seeing him take more steps to improve this Spring and this season.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Oh, MLB Network says he's top ten? So?

[milladrive]

Oh, MLB Network says he's top ten? So?

So, I happen to think they're right. If anyone can come up with 15 better overall secondbasemen (this includes offensive abilities), I'm all eyes.

[CokeMachineGlow]

So, I happen to think they're right. If anyone can come up with 15 better overall secondbasemen (this includes offensive abilities), I'm all eyes.

The list Mongoose posted is a good start.

[PVNICK]

You don't care that per the article Mongoose posted Murphy has the fourth highest OPS+ over the last two seasons? As for defense Murphy looked a lot less mechanical. I'm not saying he is ever going to look smooth and graceful but I don't watch the other guys so maybe they have their share of cloddish plays as well.

[milladrive]

The list Mongoose posted is a good start.

But CMG, Mongoose's list has Murph at #5, and his recent post after the listing by MLB Network says something to the effect of "I told you so." Am I overlooking something?

[CokeMachineGlow]

But CMG, Mongoose's list has Murph at #5, and his recent post after the listing by MLB Network says something to the effect of "I told you so." Am I overlooking something?

Oops.

I meant the list I wrote and he quoted.

[CokeMachineGlow]

You don't care that per the article Mongoose posted Murphy has the fourth highest OPS+ over the last two seasons? As for defense Murphy looked a lot less mechanical. I'm not saying he is ever going to look smooth and graceful but I don't watch the other guys so maybe they have their share of cloddish plays as well.

I can tell you that Daniel Murphy posted a below average wOBA last year, and arguably posted up his worst full season.

[PVNICK]

I can tell you that Daniel Murphy posted a below average wOBA last year, and arguably posted up his worst full season.

OK. In all honesty, I have seen wOBA referenced many times but never bothered to familiarize myself. I can't even tell you what it is shorthand for. Is this from Fangraphs? These are real questions and comments not veiled go back to your mom's basment remarks.

[PVNICK]

I did what I should have done. wOBA = weighted on base average using linear weights. The only comment I would have is that there is no park adjustment and I am only but so inquisitive but presumably Citifield still played out as a pitchers park.

[CokeMachineGlow]

I did what I should have done. wOBA = weighted on base average using linear weights. The only comment I would have is that there is no park adjustment and I am only but so inquisitive but presumably Citifield still played out as a pitchers park.

wRC+ (pretty much the park adjusted version of wOBA) places Murphy at #9 offensively. Factor in his below-average to possibly average fielding and he really isn't in the top ten.

[PVNICK]

wRC+ (pretty much the park adjusted version of wOBA) places Murphy at #9 offensively. Factor in his below-average to possibly average fielding and he really isn't in the top ten.

Perhaps. But that probably still made him the 2nd or 3rd best position player on the Mets last season.

[Mongoose]

Perhaps. But that probably still made him the 2nd or 3rd best position player on the Mets last season.

True, but that understates how good he actually is.

He was 4th among MLB 2nd basemen in OPS+ over the last 2 years. Last year was a bit of a down year hitting, since he was learning a new position all season. It was still O.K., .291 with 40 doubles. I think his hitting will be even better next year. So does Bill James who predicts this line: .303/.352/.438. I think this is reasonable and Murphy might even exceed it, with decent defense. That's easily an upper echelon 2nd baseman.

Put Murphy in Yankee Stadium and surround him with a better lineup and he'll put up better numbers; maybe 15 - 20 home runs in a season. Put Cano at "Citi" Field, move him up and down the Mets lineup, and he'll probably not exceed 20 home runs by much with a lower batting average. I'm not saying Murphy's as good as Cano, but he's better than average and it takes a lot to do well in this lineup.

Murphy continues to be underrated by some.

[CokeMachineGlow]

True, but that understates how good he actually is.

He was 4th among MLB 2nd basemen in OPS+ over the last 2 years. Last year was a bit of a down year hitting, since he was learning a new position all season. It was still O.K., .291 with 40 doubles. I think his hitting will be even better next year. So does Bill James who predicts this line: .303/.352/.438. I think this is reasonable and Murphy might even exceed it, with decent defense. That's easily an upper echelon 2nd baseman.

Put Murphy in Yankee Stadium and surround him with a better lineup and he'll put up better numbers; maybe 15 - 20 home runs in a season. Put Cano at "Citi" Field, move him up and down the Mets lineup, and he'll probably not exceed 20 home runs by much with a lower batting average. I'm not saying Murphy's as good as Cano, but he's better than average and it takes a lot to do well in this lineup.

Murphy continues to be underrated by some.

I'm not too sure why you continue to use OPS+ when there is a clearly better variant of it.

[milladrive]

I'm not too sure why you continue to use OPS+ when there is a clearly better variant of it.

Probably because it's an easy stat that even us ignorant laymen can comprehend.

[CokeMachineGlow]

Probably because it's an easy stat that even us ignorant laymen can comprehend.

It takes about five seconds to look up a definition.

I blame laziness.