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Thread: Should Nate McLouth lead off?

  1. #1
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    Should Nate McLouth lead off?

    Maybe Nate McLouth would perform better from a different spot in the line up.

    Sure , he is probably our best option for the lead off job, but if he gives us 5+ more HRs and .30 pts higher batting average, maybe we move him back in the order and try someone else.

    or maybe swap him and prado
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    Maybe Nate McLouth would perform better from a different spot in the line up.

    Sure , he is probably our best option for the lead off job, but if he gives us 5+ more HRs and .30 pts higher batting average, maybe we move him back in the order and try someone else.

    or maybe swap him and prado
    I would be against that, the only other realistic option for the leadoff spot is Yunel in my opinion. The reason McLouth is the best fit for the leadoff spot is his ability to take a walk and solid speed, Yunel and Martin lack one of them (Yunel lacks speed and Prado doesn't walk enough) which makes them a problem area. I really believe a full season healthy will get McLouth back in the 25 HR range and perhaps getting his BA up to .260 or so which will also raise his OBP.

    I realize Prado's OBP was higher then McLouth's last year but one was based almost entirely on BA which is a problem when he hits a slump as he will struggle to bring any real value to the team.
    Extend Prado!!!

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    PBF put it perfectly. I was going to say the same thing, but he did it first.

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    lookie lookie

    they put McLouth inthe 2 hole and ... he finally gets a hit!
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    lookie lookie

    they put McLouth inthe 2 hole and ... he finally gets a hit!
    And he's back to the leadoff spot and 0-3ing again. He really must be having some kind of vision problem.

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    he must not be mentally there when he is in the leadoff. His lifetime stats are much better batting in another spot in the line up. I say switch him and Martin Prado and we'll get more production out of Nate.
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    i'd rather try diaz/melky there. i really like prado in the 2-hole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    he must not be mentally there when he is in the leadoff. His lifetime stats are much better batting in another spot in the line up. I say switch him and Martin Prado and we'll get more production out of Nate.
    You would also suffer through slumps of Prado as your leadoff man which would result in a lot of one out starts to a game. I have a hard time buying the "mental" stuff when it comes to leading off, he isn't a bad hitter in the leadoff spot and the stats for batting number 2 aren't a very large sample size to draw any real conclusions. I also just don't believe moving people around in the order will make them better hitters, it will help them in certain stats (OBP in front of a pitcher, RBIs in the 3rd or 4th spot for example) but I don't think someone will go from a good hitter to a great hitter because he is one spot down in the order.

    He is struggling this spring training which should be a concern but I have serious doubts if he was moved to another spot in the order he would all of a sudden be a better hitter, it is the same argument that Kelly Johnson fans made all the time and I didn't buy it then. I admit I could be completely wrong but I just don't believe that the batting order matters except from a team aspect, not a single player aspect.
    Extend Prado!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    You would also suffer through slumps of Prado as your leadoff man which would result in a lot of one out starts to a game. I have a hard time buying the "mental" stuff when it comes to leading off, he isn't a bad hitter in the leadoff spot and the stats for batting number 2 aren't a very large sample size to draw any real conclusions. I also just don't believe moving people around in the order will make them better hitters, it will help them in certain stats (OBP in front of a pitcher, RBIs in the 3rd or 4th spot for example) but I don't think someone will go from a good hitter to a great hitter because he is one spot down in the order.

    He is struggling this spring training which should be a concern but I have serious doubts if he was moved to another spot in the order he would all of a sudden be a better hitter, it is the same argument that Kelly Johnson fans made all the time and I didn't buy it then. I admit I could be completely wrong but I just don't believe that the batting order matters except from a team aspect, not a single player aspect.
    the only argument i could see is that he is pressing in the leadoff spot. Trying too much to get things started, that's why all the K's. Swinging at pitching that he shouldn't be. I remember a couple games last year in the 8-hole where he was walking alot. At least then he could be on base and advance by a steal or a bunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chip&smoltz95 View Post
    the only argument i could see is that he is pressing in the leadoff spot. Trying too much to get things started, that's why all the K's. Swinging at pitching that he shouldn't be. I remember a couple games last year in the 8-hole where he was walking alot. At least then he could be on base and advance by a steal or a bunt.
    I think I should rephrase my statement about his struggles, it isn't something to worry about but is something to watch.

    Also McLouth struggled last year not just in the leadoff spot but just in general, his power and speed were down (hamstring could have been the problem with the speed) and the recent news of him having eye troubles last year could have been the cause for the lowering of power. I am just not worried about it and I don't see any real reason to switch McLouth, mainly because there is no real replacement. Prado isn't built for the number 1 spot and from an overall lineup construction point of view only Escobar could make sense but his overall bat down in the order is better equipped to give protection to McCann or Glaus. The way I see it you hurt your overall lineup by moving McLouth out the leadoff spot more then the potential benefits.
    Extend Prado!!!

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    1.) Melky
    2.) Prado
    3.) Chipper
    4.) Glaus
    5.) McCann
    6.) Escobar
    7.) Heyward
    8.) Diaz/ (McLouth/ Schafer/Hinske)
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    1.) Melky
    2.) Prado
    3.) Chipper
    4.) Glaus
    5.) McCann
    6.) Escobar
    7.) Heyward
    8.) Diaz/ (McLouth/ Schafer/Hinske)
    That is a bad move if that is the opening day lineup. McLouth shouldn't lose his job because of a bad spring, I realize it isn't a good thing but it is far to early to give Melky a starting job.

    Overall on the idea I have changed my mind a little as in my mind there is actually a suitable replacement that won't mess up certain things for the overall lineup. The only person that could replace McLouth (in my opinion) at the top of the order is Jason Heyward. Heyward has better speed then Escobar, a better eye then Prado and could have just as much power as McLouth, it would be putting a lot of pressure on Heyward and he is far from your normal leadoff guy but he is the only one in my opinion that offers the overall package when compared with other options. (though I still wouldn't move McLouth )
    Extend Prado!!!

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    To put it in even less words: If Cabrera is starting over McLouth, the Braves are screwed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post
    That is a bad move if that is the opening day lineup. McLouth shouldn't lose his job because of a bad spring, I realize it isn't a good thing but it is far to early to give Melky a starting job.

    Overall on the idea I have changed my mind a little as in my mind there is actually a suitable replacement that won't mess up certain things for the overall lineup. The only person that could replace McLouth (in my opinion) at the top of the order is Jason Heyward. Heyward has better speed then Escobar, a better eye then Prado and could have just as much power as McLouth, it would be putting a lot of pressure on Heyward and he is far from your normal leadoff guy but he is the only one in my opinion that offers the overall package when compared with other options. (though I still wouldn't move McLouth )
    Quote Originally Posted by SamtheBravesFan View Post
    To put it in even less words: If Cabrera is starting over McLouth, the Braves are screwed.
    actually, i have been pretty impressed with cabrera this spring. I know spring training doesn't mean much, but if mclouth doesn't get off to a good start there is no reason to keep him in the top spot. For what it's worth he has K-ed in about 1/3 of his ABs this ST. I don't take much from ST, but you should at least be making contact, meaning you are at least seeing the ball well, right? I think melky has the speed and diaz has the surprise factor to steal some bases at the top and cause some trouble if need be. I agree that heyward would be too much pressure at the top. Plus, I like him after escobar trying to drive in runs.

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    there is always the possibility to use Heward on the top of the order later on in the season if he settles in okay. Not sure how long bobby will go with nate he is regular season is anything like ST

    About ST...

    The reason people say to never put too much stock in ST is because hitters are seeing a lot of back up players, pitchers are working on stuff, sometimes throwing mostly fastball to get command down, ect ect. But when you are a hitter against these pitchers and striking out like nate is... thats still making a strong statement that something is wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    there is always the possibility to use Heward on the top of the order later on in the season if he settles in okay. Not sure how long bobby will go with nate he is regular season is anything like ST

    About ST...

    The reason people say to never put too much stock in ST is because hitters are seeing a lot of back up players, pitchers are working on stuff, sometimes throwing mostly fastball to get command down, ect ect. But when you are a hitter against these pitchers and striking out like nate is... thats still making a strong statement that something is wrong.
    The other reason is it is extremely early and premature to draw any real conclusions. The truth is when you are dealing with players that have an actual track record in the majors then I could careless if they are struggling in spring training. Here is a list of other veteran players who are struggling this spring training.

    Nate McLouth :: BA .032
    Carlos Pena :: BA .042
    Chone Figgins :: BA .105
    Skip Schumaker :: BA .121
    Brandon Phillips :: BA .136
    Raul Ibanez :: BA .143
    Rafeal Furcal :: BA .192
    Evan Longoria :: BA .192
    Jacoby Ellsbury :: BA .190
    Adrian Beltre :: BA .188
    Carl Crawford :: BA . 158
    Joey Votto :: BA .200
    Adrian Gonzalez :: BA .182


    Now to be fair these aren't all equal (some have hit for some power, have walked a good chunk or haven't struckout much) but it is simply pointing out that McLouth isn't the only veteran struggling and it is far to early to be this reactionary about games that are more about getting timing down and getting use to playing on a regular basis. I know we pretty much have nothing to talk about except for this but really this isn't the time to panic about Nate, it is something to be aware of but trying to predict what a guy will do based on his Spring Training numbers is pretty much a waste of time.
    Extend Prado!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PureBaseballFan View Post

    Now to be fair these aren't all equal (some have hit for some power, have walked a good chunk or haven't struckout much) but it is simply pointing out that McLouth isn't the only veteran struggling and it is far to early to be this reactionary about games that are more about getting timing down and getting use to playing on a regular basis. I know we pretty much have nothing to talk about except for this but really this isn't the time to panic about Nate, it is something to be aware of but trying to predict what a guy will do based on his Spring Training numbers is pretty much a waste of time.
    totally agreed! with all of that.

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    I predicted it... looks like nate will start the season in the 8th spot.

    looks like he is doing better from there too
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamsowell View Post
    I predicted it... looks like nate will start the season in the 8th spot.

    looks like he is doing better from there too
    Nothing personal but it is far from a lock he will start in the 8th spot, he could but it isn't like Melky could be the leadoff hitter everyday as he won't be playing everyday. Don't worry if he is batting 8th on opening day you will get your credit.
    Extend Prado!!!

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    hopefully he catches fire and he can get back into the lead off spot and preform well in it. Not much more of a wait for opening day now!
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    Adam now you can claim your credit as Melky will be the leadoff hitter on opening day.
    Extend Prado!!!

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