Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: 18th Greatest Pitcher

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1

    18th Greatest Pitcher

    Congratulations to the Negro Leagues' pitching standout, Smokey Joe Williams for winning our 17th Greatest Pitcher Poll! He scored 58 points from our 19 voters, including 8 first place votes. The screw-balling Giants' star, Carl Hubbell piled up 50 points for second place, picking up 2 first place votes for himself along the way.

    The following chase pack consisted of Sandy Koufax, my childhood idol, who collected 39 points and 4 first places. Three-Fingered Brown, the Cubs' legendary twirler after the turn-of-the-century came next with our voters, with 34 points and 2 first places. Juan Marichal came next with 30 points and 2 first place votes. The chase pack isn't gaining on the leaders. They are still trying to get traction here.

    The 18th round for Greatest Pitcher series is now open. Round 18 will end when we receive 20 ballots, however long that takes us.

    1. Walter Johnson
    2. Greg Maddux
    3. Cy Young
    4. Lefty Grove
    5. Pete Alexander
    6. Christy Mathewson
    7. Tom Seaver
    8. Roger Clemens
    9. Randy Johnson
    10. Warren Spahn
    11. Satchel Paige
    12. Pedro Martinez
    13. Bob Feller
    14. Bob Gibson
    15. Kid Nichols
    16. Steve Carlton
    17. Smokey Joe Williams
    18.

    As per our usual, please consider everything. Counting totals, rate stats, relative stats, peak, longevity, special skills, awards/opinions, intangibles, team support/lack of support, special circumstances, time missed for war/injuries, etc.

    We are now ONLY voting for the 18th Greatest. Please submit your ballot with your next Top 5 Pitchers, and 5 Honorable Mentions, if you would. That would help us out. Thanks for cooperating in this process. As the winner of Round 17, Joe Williams is now eliminated from further consideration. Negro Leaguers are eligible.
    Code:
    Here is how Round 1 broke down.---31 voters
    
    -----Johnson------Maddux--Matty-Alexander-Young---Grove---Clemens--Nichols-Spahn-Feller-Koufax-Seaver-Martinez-Rivera-N.Ryan
    1.----110 pts(22)---25(5)------0-----0-------5(1)-----10(2)-----0--------0-----0------5(1)-----0----0-------0-------0------0
    2. ---24(6)---------24(6)---16(4)---4(1)----12(3)-----28(7)----8(2)-------0-----0-------0----4(1)----0-------0-------0------0 
    3.-----6(2)---------15(5)----3(1)--18(6)-----9(3)-----18(6)-----0-------3(1)---6(2)-----0------0-----0-------0-------0-----6(2)
    4. -----2(1)--------10(5)----2(1)--10(5)----16(8)------8(4)----10(5)------0-----0-------0-----2(1)---0-------0-------0------0
    5.------0------------4(4)----1(1)---6(6)-----4(4)------4(4)------0--------0----1(1)----1(1)---2(2)--1(1)----1(1)-----2(2)----0
    Totals-142-----------78-------22----38-------46-------68-------18-------3-----7-------6-------8----1-------1-------2------6
    
    1. Walter Johnson - 142 (22)
    2. Greg Maddux - 78 (5)
    3. Lefty Grove - 68 (2)
    4. Cy Young - 46 (1)
    4. Pete Alexander - 38
    6. Christy Mathewson - 22
    7. Roger Clemens - 18
    8. Sandy Koufax - 8
    9. Warren Spahn - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 6 (1)
    11. Nolan Ryan - 6
    11. Kid Nichols - 3
    12. Mariano Rivera - 2
    13. Tom Seaver - 1
    13. Pedro Martinez - 1
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Here is how Round 2 broke down.---24 voters
    
    1. Greg Maddux - 78(11)
    2. Lefty Grove - 71(7)
    3. Cy Young - 58(2)
    4. Pete Alexander - 46(1)
    5. Christy Mathewson - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 20(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 9
    8. Nolan Ryan - 7
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Tom Seaver - 5
    9. Randy Johnson - 5 
    12. Pedro Martinez - 4
    13. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Mariano Rivera - 3
    15. Satchel Paige - 2
    16. Smokey Joe Williams - 1
    16. Kid Nichols - 1
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    ------------------------------
    Fine Breakdown: Round 2:
    ------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th
    1. Greg Maddux--------------55(11)--20(5)----3(1)----0--------0
    2. Lefty Grove --------------35(7)---12(3)----18(6)---4(2)-----2(2)
    3. Cy Young-----------------10(2)---16(4)----18(6)--12(6)----2(2)
    4. Pete Alexander--------------5(1)--20(5)----12(4)---4(2)----5(5)
    5. Christy Mathewson----------10(2)-8(2)------6(2)---4(2)----3(3)
    6. Roger Clemens---------------5(1)--8(2)-----3(1)----2(1)---2(2)
    7. Warren Spahn-----------------0---4(1)-----3(1)-----0-----2(1) 
    8. Nolan Ryan--------------------0---4(1)------0------2(1)---1(1)
    9. Bob Feller---------------------0-----0-------0------4(2)---1(1)
    9. Tom Seaver-------------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0 
    9. Randy Johnson----------------0-----0-------3(1)--2(1)-----0  
    12. Pedro Martinez---------------0----4(1)------0-----0-------0
    13. Bob Gibson-------------------0-----0-------0-----2(1)----1(1)
    13. Mariano Rivera---------------0------0------0-----2(1)-----1(1)
    15. Satchel Paige----------------0------0------0-----2(1)------0 
    16. Smokey Joe Williams----------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    16. Kid Nichols-------------------0------0------0------0-------1(1) 
    16. Curt Schilling-----------------0------0------0------0-------1(1)
    
    Round 3:---19 voters
    
    1. Cy Young - 66(5)
    2. Lefty Grove - 57(5)
    3. Pete Alexander - 54(3)
    4. Christy Mathewson - 40
    5. Tom Seaver - 28(1)
    6. Roger Clemens - 18(2)
    7. Randy Johnson - 13(1)
    8. Satchel Paige - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 5
    9. Mariano Rivera - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Nolan Ryan - 4
    13. Sandy Koufax - 3
    14.  Steve Carlton- 2
    14. Bob Gibson - 2
    16. Curt Schilling - 1
    16. Pedro Martinez - 1
    16. Rube Foster - 1
    
    Here's the breakdown.
    
    -----------------------1st------2nd-----3rd------4th------5th
    1. Cy Young----------25(5)-----20(5)----15(5)----6(3)------0
    2. Lefty Grove--------25(5)-----24(6)-----3(1)----4(2)------1(1)
    3. Pete Alexander-----15(3)-----16(4)----18(6)----4(2)------1(1)
    4. Christy Mathewson-10(2)-----16(4)-----3(1)----8(4)------3(3)
    5. Tom Seaver--------5(1)------4(1)------9(3)----6(3)------4(4)
    6. Roger Clemens-----10(2)-----4(1)-------0------2(1)------2(2)
    7. Randy Johnson------5(1)------0--------3(1)-----0--------5(5)
    8. Satchel Paige--------0--------0--------6(2)-----2(1)------0
    9. Bob Feller------------0--------0-------3(1)-----2(1)-------0
    10. Warren Spahn-------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------2(2)
    10. Nolan Ryan----------0------4(1)-------0-------0---------0
    13. Sandy Koufax-------0-------0---------3(1)-----0---------0
    14. Bob Gibson----------0-------0---------0-------2(1)------0
    14. Steve Carlton-------0--------0---------0------2(1)------0
    16. Pedro Martinez------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Curt Schilling--------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    16. Rube Foster---------0--------0---------0-------0--------1(1)
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 4.---21 voters
    
    1. Lefty Grove - 73(9)
    2. Pete Alexander - 61(4)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 48(2)
    4. Tom Seaver - 31(2)
    5. Roger Clemens - 28(3)
    6. Randy Johnson - 17
    7. Satchel Paige - 15
    8. Pedro Martinez - 13
    9. Joe Williams - 6
    10. Sandy Koufax - 5
    11. Warren Spahn - 4
    11. Bob Feller - 4
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Kid Nichols - 1
    14. Rube Foster
    
    Here's the fine breakdown.
    
    --------------------------1st----2nd-----3rd----4th----5th
    1. Lefty Grove-----------45(9)---16(4)---6(2)---6(3)----0
    2. Pete Alexander--------20(4)---24(6)---9(3)---6(3)---2(2)
    3. Christy Mathewson----10(2)----8(2)--24(8)---4(2)---2(2)
    4. Tom Seaver-----------10(2)---12(3)---3(1)---4(2)---2(2)
    5. Roger Clemens---------15(3)----0------9(3)---2(1)---2(2)
    6. Randy Johnson----------0------4(1)-----0----10(5)---3(3)
    7. Satchel Paige-----------0------8(2)----3(1)----0-----4(4)
    8. Pedro Martinez---------5(1)----8(2)-----0------0------0
    9. Joe Williams-------------0------4(1)-----0-----2(1)----0
    10. Sandy Koufax----------0--------0-----3(1)---2(1)----0
    11. Warren Spahn----------0--------0------0-----2(1)---2(2)
    11. Bob Feller--------------0--------0-----3(1)----0-----1(1)
    13. Steve Carlton----------0--------0------0-----2(1)----0
    14. Bob Caruthers----------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Kid Nichols-------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    14. Rube Foster------------0--------0------0------0----1(1)
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 5.  19 voters.
    
    1. Pete Alexander - 65(7)
    2. Tom Seaver - 50(6)
    3. Christy Mathewson - 39(2)
    4. Randy Johnson - 32
    5. Satchel Paige - 31(2)
    6. Roger Clemens - 21(1)
    7. Warren Spahn - 14
    8. Bob Feller - 7
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    10. Pedro Martinez - 5(1)
    11. Joe Williams - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Sandy Koufax - 1
    -------------------------------------------- 
    The fine breakdown.  
    -----------------------1st----2nd----3rd---4th---5th
    1. Pete Alexander-----35(7)--24(6)---6(2)---0-----0
    2. Tom Seaver--------30(6)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)---0
    3. Christy Mathewson-10(2)---8(2)--12(4)--8(4)--1(1)
    4. Randy Johnson-------0------8(2)--15(5)--6(3)--3(3)
    5. Satchel Paige------10(2)---8(2)---6(2)--6(3)--1(1)
    6. Roger Clemens------5(1)---8(2)---3(1)--4(2)--1(1) 
    7. Warren Spahn-------0-----4(1)---3(1)---0----7(7)
    8. Bob Feller-----------0-----4(1)----0----2(1)--1(1) 
    9. Kid Nichols----------0-------0----3(1)--2(1)--1(1) 
    10. Pedro Martinez----5(1)-----0-----0-----0-----0
    11. Joe Williams--------0-------0-----0---2(1)--1(1)
    12. Bob Gibson---------0-------0----3(1)--0-----0 
    13. Steve Carlton------0-------0-----0---2(1)---0
    14. Bob Caruthers------0-------0-----0----0----1(1) 
    14. Sandy Koufax-------0------0-----0----0----1(1)
    
    Round 6. ---20 voters.
    
    1. Christy Mathewson - 65
    2. Tom Seaver - 59
    3. Randy Johnson - 35
    4. Roger Clemens - 28
    4. Warren Spahn - 28
    6. Satchel Paige - 27
    6. Pedro Martinez - 27
    8. Smokey Joe Williams - 8
    9. Bob Feller - 6
    9. Kid Nichols - 6
    11. Sandy Koufax - 4
    12. Bob Gibson - 3
    13. Steve Carlton - 2
    14. Bob Caruthers - 1
    14. Mordecai Brown - 1
    
    The fine breakdown.
    -------------------------------1st-----2nd-----3rd-----4th-----5th-----Total
    Christy Mathewson-------------7(35)---4(16)---2(6)----2(4)----4(4)-----65
    Tom Seaver--------------------7(35)---3(12)---1(3)----3(6)----3(3)-----59
    Randy Johnson-------------------0-----5(20)---3(9)----2(4)----2(2)-----35
    Roger Clemens-----------------2(10)---1(4)----4(12)-----0-----2(2)-----28
    Warren Spahn-------------------0-----1(4)----4(12)---5(10)----2(2)----28
    Satchel Paige--------------------0-----3(12)---3(9)----3(6)-----0-------27
    Pedro Martinez-----------------3(15)---1(4)----1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----27
    Smokey Joe Williams-------------0------0-------1(3)----2(4)----1(1)-----8
    Bob Feller----------------------1(5)----0--------0-------0------1(1)-----6
    Kid Nichols----------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-----2(2)-----6
    Sandy Koufax-------------------0------1(4)------0-------0-------0------4
    Bob Gibson----------------------0-------0------1(3)------0------0-------3
    Steve Carlton-------------------0-------0-------0-------1(2)-----0------2
    Bob Caruthers-------------------0------0--------0--------0-----1(1)-----1
    Mordecai Brown-----------------0-------0-------0---------0----1(1)-----1
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 7.---Round 7
    
    ---------------------1st-----2nd----3rd-----4th------5th-----Totals
    1. Tom Seaver------30(6)---24(6)--12(4)---2(1)----4(4)-------72
    2. Warren Spahn----10(2)---24(6)---9(3)--12(6)------0--------55
    3. Roger Clemens----35(7)----8(2)----0-----4(2)----6(6)-------53
    4. Satchel Paige-----20(4)---12(4)--12(4)----0-------0--------48
    5. Randy Johnson----5(1)----8(2)---15(3)---4(2)----2(2)-------34
    6. Pedro Martinez----5(1)----4(1)----3(1)----6(3)-----0--------18
    7. Bob Gibson---------0-----4(1)-----3(1)----4(2)---1(1)-------13
    8. Sandy Koufax------0-------0------9(3)-----0------1(1)------10
    9. Kid Nichols---------5(1)----0-------0------2(1)-----0---------7
    10. Bob Feller---------0-------0-------0------2(1)----3(3)-------5
    11. Nolan Ryan--------0-------0-------0------2(1)----1(1)-------3
    11. Steve Carlton-----0--------0------0--------0-----3(3)-------3
    13. Amos Rusie-------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Ed Walsh---------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    13. Joe Rogan--------0---------0------0------2(1)------0--------2
    -------------------------------------------------------------------
    Round 8.---Round 8.
    
    
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Roger		Clemens		9	1	2	5	0	65
    Randy		Johnson		1	4	7	1	2	46
    Warren		Spahn		2	5	4	1	1	45
    Satchel		Paige		3	6	0	2	1	44
    Pedro		Martinez	3	1	1	2	2	28
    Bob		Feller		0	0	1	3	5	14
    Sandy		Koufax		1	2	0	0	1	14
    Kid		Nichols		1	0	0	3	3	14
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	1	0	8
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 9.---Round 9

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Randy		Johnson		5	5	3	3	1	61
    Warren		Spahn		3	8	3	2	0	60
    Satchel		Paige		7	3	3	1	0	58
    Pedro		Martinez	4	3	2	3	1	45
    Kid		Nichols		1	1	4	1	7	30
    Bob		Feller		1	0	2	5	2	23
    Bob		Gibson		0	0	1	2	4	11
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	0	3	1	7
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	0	0	4
    Sandy		Koufax		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 10.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Warren		Spahn		9	5	3	1	1	77
    Satchel		Paige		8	4	1	0	0	59
    Pedro		Martinez	3	3	3	1	1	39
    Bob		Feller		1	1	5	3	1	31
    Kid		Nichols		0	4	0	6	2	30
    Bob		Gibson		0	1	3	4	5	26
    Steve		Carlton		0	0	2	3	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Smokey Joe	Williams	0	1	2	0	0	10
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	1	1	2	7
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	0	4	4
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 11.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Satchel		Paige		10	4	1	0	0	69
    Pedro		Martinez	3	6	1	1	2	46
    Bob		Feller		3	2	6	0	3	44
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	2	4	39
    Bob		Gibson		0	2	2	6	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	2	2	3	17
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	1	0	16
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Three Finger	Brown		0	0	0	2	2	6
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	1	0	5
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 12.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Pedro		Martinez	8	3	0	3	1	59
    Bob		Feller		5	6	0	2	4	57
    Bob		Gibson		1	5	4	5	1	48
    Kid		Nichols		3	1	4	3	2	39
    Steve		Carlton		0	2	2	3	2	22
    Carl		Hubbell		0	0	5	1	1	18
    Smokey Joe	Williams	1	1	1	2	0	16
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	0	2	9
    Three Finger	Brown		1	0	0	0	3	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	0	1	1	7
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Bob		Caruthers	1	0	0	0	0	5
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	2	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 13

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Feller		6	2	3	3	3	56
    Bob		Gibson		3	4	4	2	4	51
    Kid		Nichols		5	1	3	3	1	45
    Carl		Hubbell		0	4	1	3	3	28
    Steve		Carlton		0	3	3	1	1	24
    Smokey Joe	Williams	2	1	2	0	4	24
    Sandy		Koufax		0	4	1	0	0	19
    Three Finger	Brown		2	1	0	1	1	17
    Juan		Marichal	0	0	2	1	1	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Ed		Walsh		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	0	0	0	0
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Eddie		Plank		0	0	0	0	0	0
    Round 14
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Bob		Gibson		5	3	3	4	1	55
    Smoky Joe	Williams	6	1	3	3	1	50
    Kid		Nichols		3	4	3	0	2	42
    Steve		Carlton		1	3	3	0	3	29
    Carl		Hubbell		0	1	3	4	2	23
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	1	0	2	13
    Three Finger	Brown		1	1	1	0	0	12
    Sandy		Koufax		0	2	1	0	1	12
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Mariano		Rivera		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	0	1	6
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	1	0	2
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	1	1
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Johan		Santana		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round 15
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Kid		Nichols		5	6	2	1	0	57
    Smoky Joe	Williams	5	3	3	2	0	50
    Steve		Carlton		6	1	3	1	3	48
    Carl		Hubbell		0	3	4	2	0	28
    Three Finger	Brown		2	0	2	1	1	19
    Juan		Marichal	0	2	0	2	3	15
    Whitey		Ford		0	1	1	1	2	11
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	1	0	9
    Nolan		Ryan		1	0	0	1	1	8
    Tim		Keefe		0	1	1	0	0	7
    Mariano		Rivera		0	1	0	1	0	6
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	0	2	1	5
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	0	1	3	5
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	1	0	1	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Johan		Santana		0	0	1	0	0	3
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	0	2	2
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Bullet		Rogan		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Round16
    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Steve		Carlton		7	5	1	2	0	62
    Smoky Joe	Williams	7	2	4	1	1	58
    Carl		Hubbell		0	5	3	0	1	30
    Three Finger	Brown		3	1	1	2	2	28
    Juan		Marichal	0	3	2	2	3	25
    Nolan		Ryan		2	0	1	2	1	18
    Sandy		Koufax		0	1	1	2	1	12
    Phil		Niekro		0	0	2	1	2	10
    Gaylord		Perry		0	1	0	1	2	8
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	1	2	0	7
    John		Clarkson	0	0	0	2	1	5
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	1	0	2	5
    Bob		Caruthers	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	0	1	1
    [/code]

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Smoky Joe	Williams	8	3	2	0	0	58
    Carl		Hubbell		2	6	4	1	2	50
    Sandy		Koufax		4	3	1	2	0	39
    Three Finger	Brown		2	4	2	1	0	34
    Juan		Marichal	2	1	1	5	3	30
    Phil		Niekro		0	2	1	1	1	14
    Gaylord		Perry		1	0	1	2	1	13
    Robin		Roberts		0	0	3	0	1	10
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	2	3	7
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	0	2	3	7
    John		Clarkson	0	0	2	0	0	6
    Ed		Walsh		0	0	0	1	2	4
    Charles		Radbourn	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Carl		Mays		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Dazzy		Vance		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Jim		Palmer		0	0	0	0	1	1

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    Pitchers Form Chart:

    Pre - 1900: Tim Keefe, John "Monte" Ward, Bob Caruthers, John Clarkson, Jim "Pud" Galvin, Mickey Welch, Sadie McMahon, Jim McCormick, Charlie "Old Hoss" Radbourne, Amos Rusie, Jim Whitney, Larry Corcoran, Clark Griffith, Al Spalding, Charlie Ferguson, Tony Mullane, Silver King, Bobby Mathews, Tommy Bond, Jim Creighton, Gus Weyhing, Jack Stivetts, Will White, Ted Breitenstein, Adonis Terry, Will White, Charlie Buffington, Bill Hutchison, Guy Hecker, Terry Larkin, George Bradley, Fred Goldsmith, Ed Morris, Dave Foutz, Toad Ramsey, Jim Devlin, Matt Kilroy, Ben Sanders, Elton Chamberlain.

    1900-1930: Rube Waddell, Mordecai Brown, Addie Joss, Ed Walsh, Eddie Plank, Joe McGinnity, Chief Bender, Ed Reulbach, Nap Rucker, Wilbur Cooper, Deacon Phillippe, Dazzy Vance, Stan Coveleski, Herb Pennock, Carl Mays, Ed Cicotte, Bill Dinneen, Ted Lyons, Eppa Rixey, Vic Willis, Hippo Vaughn, Dutch Leonard, Urban Shocker, Burleigh Grimes, Doc White, Nick Altrock, Sam Jones, Jack Coombs, Joe Wood, Jack Chesbro, Jim Bagby, Bullet Joe Bush, Waite Hoyt, Red Faber, Bob Shawkey, Ray Caldwell, Ray Collins, George Mogridge, Earl Hamilton, George Uhle, Eddie Rommel, Dolph Luque.

    1930-1960: Dizzy Dean, Carl Hubbell, Whitey Ford, Robin Roberts, Wes Ferrell, Bob Lemon, Lefty Gomez, Hal Newhouser, Red Ruffing, Bucky Walters, Early Wynn, Billy Pierce, Don Newcombe, Tommy Bridges, Lon Warneke, Mel Harder, Bob Turley, Harry Breechen and Bobby Shantz.

    1960-1980: Nolan Ryan, Gaylord Perry, Sandy Koufax, Juan Marichal, Phil Niekro, Jim "Catfish" Hunter, Ferguson Jenkins, Wilbur Wood, Don Drysdale, Jim Bunning, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Sparky Lyle, Tommy John, Jim Kaat, Bert Blyleven, Lew Burdette, Curt Simmons, Harvey Haddix, Johnny Antonelli, Vern Law, Bob Purkey, Johnny Podres, Joe Nuxhall, Ron Perranoski, Bob Veale, Dick Ellsworth, Jim Maloney, Chris Short, Bob Friend, Jim Palmer, Milt Pappas, Jerry Koosman, Dock Ellis, Sam McDowell, Jim 'Mudcat' Grant.

    1980-Present: Curt Schilling, Jack Morris, Kevin Brown, John Smoltz, Mike Mussina, Tom Glavine, Dave Stieb, Johan Santana.

    Negro Leagues:

    Wilbur "Bullet Joe" Rogan, (1917-1938)
    "Cannonball" Dick Redding, (1911-1938)
    Dave Brown, (1918-1925)
    Andrew "Rube" Foster, (1902-1926)
    Bill 'Willie' Foster, (1923-1938)
    Ray Brown (1930-1948)
    Hilton Smith (1932-1948
    Jesse 'Nip" Winters (1920-1933)
    Will 'Cannonball' Jackman (1925-1936)
    Jose Mendez (1908-1926)
    John Donaldson (1913-1934)
    Walter Ball (1903-1923)

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    My Slate of Candidates for this round. Numbers following indicate where Bill James ranked them in 2001.

    1. Juan Marichal 21
    2. Mordecai Brown 15
    3. Nolan Ryan 24
    4. Addie Joss 80
    5. Amos Rusie 28

    Next up.

    Rube Waddell
    Sandy Koufax 12
    Eddie Plank
    "Bullet Joe" Rogan (Neg L)
    Dazzy Vance

    Might I persuade any of you guys to consider voting in our other polls?

    13th Greatest Hitter

    45th Greatest Player

    Wagner/Mays?

    I would consider it a great favor if you did.
    Last edited by Bill Burgess; 05-10-2010 at 05:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    513
    Mordecai Brown
    Al Spalding
    Addie Joss
    Hoyt Wilhelm
    Mariano Rivera

    Maybe next time, if there is one: Koufax, Walsh, Vance, Ward, Caruthers
    Last edited by ItsOnlyGil; 04-13-2010 at 02:04 PM.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    168
    Mordecai "Three Finger" Brown
    Juan Marichal
    Carl Hubbell
    Whitey Ford
    Rube Waddell

    Next: Amos Rusie, Eddie Plank, Sandy Koufax, Bullet Joe Rogan

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2000
    Location
    D-town, MI
    Posts
    5,981
    Blog Entries
    9
    1. Carl Hubbell
    2. Robin Roberts
    3. Gaylord Perry
    4. Phil Niekro
    5. Nolan Ryan

    Next 5:
    Sandy Koufax
    Fergie Jenkins
    Juan Marichal
    Mariano Rivera
    John Clarkson
    Eradicate, wipe out and abolish redundancy.

    Free El Duque!(and Mark Mulder) -- discover how the HOF rules are cheating this renowned member of Torre's Yankees dynasty and ask the HOF to include him on the ballot for the next BBWAA election.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    6,900
    Blog Entries
    4
    Juan Marichal
    John Clarkson
    Mordecai Brown
    Tim Keefe
    Sandy Koufax

    next Robin Roberts, Carl Hubbell, Phil Niekro, Gaylord Perry

  8. #8
    1. Carl Hubbell
    2. Phil Niekro
    3. Gaylord Perry
    4. Sandy Koufax
    5. Juan Marichal

    Close behind- Robin Roberts, Mordecai Brown, and several others.

  9. #9
    Hubbell
    Niekro
    Clarkson
    Perry
    Roberts

  10. #10
    1. Carl Hubbell
    2. Sandy Koufax
    3. Juan Marichal
    4. Nolan Ryan
    5. Phil Niekro

    Coming soon... Clarkson, Waddell, Rogan, Walsh, Vance
    "(Van) Mungo and I get along fine. I just tell him I won't stand for no nonsense, and then I duck."
    Casey Stengel

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    Could I ask you all to submit 5 Honorable Mentions?

    Thanks.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Magrathea
    Posts
    5,726
    Blog Entries
    2
    Hubbell
    Roberts
    Niekro
    Perry
    Ryan

    I have not yet decided who my next five will be.

    With transfer ballots, I have 13 votes in, eight of which have honorable mentions, assuming I get mine done. I would like to see more voters, but our leader has a sizable enough advantage that we seem headed for his inevitable capture of this spot. In cases like these, I think we are okay to cut off early, as opposed to a close race that had stalled.

  13. #13
    1 - Sandy Koufax
    2 - Carl Hubbell
    3 - Juan Marichal
    4 - Robin Roberts
    5 - Mordecai Brown

    Whitey Ford
    Nolan Ryan
    John Clarkson
    Phil Niekro
    Gaylord perry

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Mt. View, CA, above San Jose
    Posts
    18,230
    Blog Entries
    1
    Bumping this up. We have 10 ballots in.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Magrathea
    Posts
    5,726
    Blog Entries
    2
    As I stated in the 13th Greatest Hitter thread, when I am stuck for full ballots, I study partial ballots to see if the trends lead me to a conclusive winner. In this case, as with the hitters, it's an easy yes. Our winner is Carl Hubbell. Again, only full ballots are actually placed in the chart.

    Code:
    Fname		Lname		First	Second	Third	Fourth	Fifth	Total
    Carl		Hubbell		6	2	2	0	0	44
    Juan		Marichal	3	1	3	1	1	31
    Sandy		Koufax		3	2	0	2	1	28
    Three Finger	Brown		2	3	1	0	1	26
    Robin		Roberts		0	2	1	1	2	15
    Phil		Niekro		0	2	1	1	1	14
    Gaylord		Perry		0	0	2	2	0	10
    John		Clarkson	0	1	1	0	0	7
    Nolan		Ryan		0	0	1	1	2	7
    Whitey		Ford		0	0	0	1	2	4
    Addie		Joss		0	0	0	2	0	4
    Al		Spalding	0	1	0	0	0	4
    Charles		Radbourn	0	0	1	0	0	3
    Ed		Walsh		0	0	0	1	1	3
    Hoyt		Wilhelm		0	0	1	0	0	3
    Tim		Keefe		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Carl		Mays		0	0	0	1	0	2
    Mariano		Rivera		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Amos		Rusie		0	0	0	0	1	1
    Rube		Waddell		0	0	0	0	1	1
    I can't use this method forever, so it is necessary in all cases for people to vote. But I do have enough material to move along this series to the next round.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •