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Thread: Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

  1. #426
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jar of Flies View Post
    Overlooked joe torre and alex pompez on the contributors, please add
    Got it. So after a brief stint outside the Hall of Honor, both men are back in.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  2. #427
    Not doing Negro League or Pioneers. I'm also not touching active players, but only retired (or those who appear like they are about to be retired). + means they are retired (or i think they are about to be) and I will put them in my HOF as soon as eligible. I don't abide by 10 year minimum play time, nor the ineligible list. Additionally, I break down by position which means I had to make some judgment calls on which position I consider some players. This may've caused me to miss some dual position players, like I nearly forgot Musial.


    Pitchers (77 + 7)

    Cy Young
    Walter Johnson
    Schilling
    Seaver
    Grove
    Nichols
    Alexander
    Clemens
    Niekro
    Mathewson
    Blyleven
    Perry
    Spahn
    Plank
    Carlton
    Clarkson
    Keefe
    Galvin
    Bob Gibson
    Jenkins
    Nolan Ryan
    Robin Roberts
    Vic Willis
    Sutton
    Palmer
    Kevin Brown
    Reuschel
    Rusie
    Hubbell
    Radbourn
    Jim McCormick
    Faber
    Tiant
    Lyons
    Coveleski
    Vance
    Feller
    Walsh
    Welch
    Eckersley
    Cone
    Marichal
    Spalding
    Waddell
    Drysdale
    Koufax
    Ford
    Three Finger Brown
    Rixey
    Mullane
    Newhouser
    Bunning
    McGinnity
    Ruffing
    Wes Ferrell
    Wynn
    Joss
    Wilhelm
    Gossage
    Caruthers
    Bucky Walters
    Hershiser
    Shocker
    Babe Adams
    B Pierce
    W Cooper
    Noodles Hahn
    Dizzy Dean
    Dave Stieb
    C Griffith
    Tommy John
    Saberhagen
    Appier
    Cicotte
    Maddux
    Glavine
    Mussina

    +Pedro Martinez
    +Smoltz
    +R Johnson
    +M Rivera
    +Halladay
    +Oswalt
    +Pettitte

    Catcher (18 + 1)
    Bench
    Carter
    Berra
    Dickey
    Torre
    Piazza
    Fisk
    Hartnett
    Cochrane
    Simmons
    Tenace
    Lombardi
    Schang
    Munson
    Ewing
    Bresnahan
    Campanella
    C Bennett

    +Ivan Rodriguez

    1B (17 + 2)
    Gehrig
    Foxx
    Connor
    Anson
    Brouthers
    Bagwell
    Mize
    Murray
    McCovey
    Palmeiro
    Killebrew
    Sisler
    Terry
    Greenberg
    K Hernandez
    D Allen
    W Clark
    Beckley

    +Thome
    +Helton

    2B (20)
    Hornsby
    Eddie Collins
    Lajoie
    Morgan
    Whitaker
    Frisch
    Grich
    Gehringer
    Sandberg
    Alomar
    Biggio
    Jackie Robinson
    Willie Randolph
    Joe Gordon
    Billy Herman
    Bid McPhee
    Carew
    Ross Barnes
    Hardy Richardson
    Jeff Kent

    3B (18 + 2)
    Schmidt
    Mathews
    Boggs
    Brett
    Brooks Robinson
    Nettles
    Buddy Bell
    Santo
    Home Run Baker
    Boyer
    Bando
    Deacon White
    Darrell Evans
    McGraw
    Heinie Groh
    Jimmy Collins
    Bob Elliott
    Stan Hack

    +Rolen
    + Jones

    SS (18)
    Wagner
    Ripken
    George Davis
    Yount
    Dahlen
    Ozzie Smith
    Vaughan
    Larkin
    Trammell
    Appling
    Wallace
    Reese
    Banks
    Cronin
    Glasscock
    Boudreau
    Monte Ward
    Jennings

    +Jeter

    LF (23 + 1)
    Musial
    T Williams
    B Williams
    Henderson
    Delahanty
    Yaz
    Rose
    Raines
    Simmons
    Clarke
    Goslin
    Burkett
    Wheat
    Sherry Magee
    Stargell
    Indian Bob Johnson
    Medwick
    Minoso
    Joe Kelley
    Kiner
    Bonds
    O'Rourke
    Stovey

    +Manny Ramirez

    CF (19 + 2)
    Mays
    Cobb
    Speaker
    Mantle
    Snider
    Hamilton
    DiMaggio
    Ashburn
    Carey
    Doby
    Averill
    Dawson
    Reggie Smith
    Paul Hines
    George Gore
    Lofton
    Puckett
    Pete Browning
    Willie Davis

    +Griffey
    +Edmonds
    +andruw Jones

    RF (21 + 2)
    Aaron
    Ott
    Ruth
    Winfield
    Slaughter
    Keeler
    Flick
    Shoeless Jackson
    King Kelly
    Frank Robinson
    Sam Thompson
    Dwight Evans
    Gwynn
    Heilmann
    Reggie Jackson
    Larry Walker
    Paul Waner
    Sam Crawford
    Kaline
    Clemente
    Bobby Bonds

    +Sheffield
    +Vlad Guerrero
    +Abreu

    DH (3)
    Molitor
    Edgar Martinez
    Frank Thomas
    Last edited by baltimorechop; 10-05-2014 at 06:09 AM. Reason: Retirees added

  3. #428
    I am new to the project and will be adding a group every couple of days until my list is complete.I will make a list for Negro League, Mexican League and other leagues as I get time.

    Catchers -

    Johnny Bench
    Charlie Bennett
    Yogi Berra
    Roger Bresnahan
    Roy Campanella
    Gary Carter
    Mickey Cochrane
    Bill Dickey
    Buck Ewing
    Carlton Fisk
    Bill Freehan
    Gabby Hartnett
    Elston Howard
    Ernie Lombardi
    Thurman Munson
    Lance Parrish
    Mike Piazza
    Wally Schang
    Ted Simmons
    Joe Torre
    Deacon White

    1st Base -

    Cap Anson
    Dick Allen
    Jeff Bagwell
    Jake Beckley
    Dan Brouthers
    Orlando Cepeda
    Frank Chance
    Will Clark
    Roger Connor
    Jimmie Foxx
    Lou Gehrig
    Hank Greenberg
    Keith Hernandez
    Gil Hodges
    Harmon Killebrew
    Willie McCovey
    Fred McGriff
    Cal McVey
    Mark McGwire
    Johnny Mize
    Eddie Murray
    Rafael Palmeiro
    Tony Perez
    George Sisler
    Joe Start
    Bill Terry
    Hal Trosky

    2nd Base -

    Roberto Alomar
    Ross Barnes
    Craig Biggio
    Rod Carew
    Cupid Childs
    Eddie Collins
    Bobby Doerr
    Larry Doyle
    Frankie Frisch
    Charlie Gehringer
    Bobby Grich
    Joe Gordon
    Billy Herman
    Rogers Hornsby
    Jeff Kent
    Nap Lajoie
    Tony Lazzeri
    Bid McPhee
    Joe Morgan
    Willie Randolph
    Hardy Richardson
    Jackie Robinson
    Ryne Sandberg
    Lou Whitaker
    Frank White

    Shortstops -

    Luke Appling
    Ernie Banks
    Lou Boudreau
    Joe Cronin
    Bill Dahlen
    George Davis
    Jack Glasscock
    Hughie Jennings
    Barry Larkin
    Dickey Pearce
    Pee Wee Reese
    Cal Ripken Jr.
    Ozzie Smith
    Vern Stephens
    Alan Trammell
    Arky Vaughan
    Honus Wagner
    John Montgomery Ward
    George Wright
    Robin Yount

    3rd Base -

    Frank Baker
    Sal Bando
    Wade Boggs
    Ken Boyer
    George Brett
    Jimmy Collins
    Bob Elliott
    Darrell Evans
    Heinie Groh
    Stan Hack
    Tommy Leach
    Edgar Martinez
    Eddie Mathews
    John McGraw
    Paul Molitor
    Graig Nettles
    Brooks Robinson
    Al Rosen
    Ron Santo
    Mike Schmidt
    Ezra Sutton
    Pie Traynor


    Left Fielders -

    Albert Belle
    Barry Bonds
    Lou Brock
    Jesse Burkett
    Fred Clarke
    Gavvy Cravath
    Ed Delahanty
    Goose Goslin
    Rickey Henderson
    Monte Irvin
    Shoeless Joe Jackson
    Bob Johnson
    Ralph Kiner
    Sherry Magee
    Joe Medwick
    Minnie Minoso
    Stan Musial
    Jim O'Rourke
    Tim Raines
    Jimmy Sheckard
    Al Simmons
    Willie Stargell
    Harry Stovey
    Zach Wheat
    Billy Williams
    Ted Williams
    Carl Yastrzemski


    Center Fielders -

    Richie Ashburn
    Earl Averill
    Wally Berger
    Max Carey
    Ty Cobb
    Joe DiMaggio
    Larry Doby
    Hugh Duffy
    George Gore
    Billy Hamilton
    Paul Hines
    Kenny Lofton
    Fred Lynn
    Mickey Mantle
    Willie Mays
    Dale Murphy
    Tony Oliva
    Lip Pike
    Vada Pinson
    Kirby Puckett
    Edd Roush
    Duke Snider
    Tris Speaker
    George Van Haltren
    Hack Wilson
    Jimmy Wynn


    Right Fielders -

    Hank Aaron
    Bobby Bonds
    Harold Baines
    Roberto Clemente
    Sam Crawford
    Andre Dawson
    Dwight Evans
    Tony Gwynn
    Harry Heilmann
    Reggie Jackson
    Al Kaline
    Willie Keeler
    King Kelly
    Mel Ott
    Frank Robinson
    Pete Rose
    Babe Ruth
    Enos Slaughter
    Reggie Smith
    Sammy Sosa
    Sam Thompson
    Paul Waner
    Larry Walker
    Dave Winfield

    Starting Pitchers -

    Grover Cleveland Alexander
    Chief Bender
    Vida Blue
    Bert Blyleven
    Tommy Bridges
    Mordecai Brown
    Jim Bunning
    Steve Carlton
    Bob Caruthers
    Eddie Cicotte
    John Clarkson
    Roger Clemens
    David Cone
    Wilbur Cooper
    Stan Coveleski
    Jim Creighton
    Dizzy Dean
    Don Drysdale
    Red Faber
    Bob Feller
    Wes Ferrell
    Whitey Ford
    Pud Galvin
    Bob Gibson
    Lefty Gomez
    Dwight Gooden
    Clark Griffith
    Burleigh Grimes
    Lefty Grove
    Carl Hubbell
    Catfish Hunter
    Fergie Jenkins
    Tommy John
    Walter Johnson
    Addie Joss
    Jim Kaat
    Tim Keefe
    Silver King
    Sandy Koufax
    Bob Lemon
    Ted Lyons
    Juan Marichal
    Bobby Mathews
    Christy Mathewson
    Carl Mays
    Joe McGinnity
    Jack Morris
    Tony Mullane
    Don Newcombe
    Hal Newhouser
    Kid Nichols
    Phil Niekro
    Jim Palmer
    Gaylord Perry
    Billy Pierce
    Eddie Plank
    Charley Radbourn
    Eppa Rixey
    Robin Roberts
    Red Ruffing
    Amos Rusie
    Babe Ruth
    Nolan Ryan
    Bret Saberhagen
    Curt Schilling
    Tom Seaver
    Urban Shocker
    Warren Spahn
    Dave Stieb
    Don Sutton
    Luis Tiant
    Dazzy Vance
    Rube Waddell
    Ed Walsh
    Mickey Welch
    Vic Willis
    Joe Wood
    Wilbur Wood
    Early Wynn
    Cy Young


    Relievers -

    Dennis Eckersley
    Rollie Fingers
    John Franco
    Goose Gossage
    Tom Henke
    Doug Jones
    Mike Marshall
    Firpo Mayberry
    Tug McGraw
    Jesse Orosco
    Jeff Reardon
    Lee Smith
    Bruce Sutter
    Dan Quisenberry
    John Wetteland
    Hoyt Wilhelm


    Negro, Mexican, Cuban, and Japanese League Players -

    Cool Papa Bell
    Akira Bessho
    Ray Brown
    Willard Brown
    Perucho Cepeda
    Oscar Charleston
    Andy Cooper
    Ray Dandridge
    Leon Day
    Martin DiHigo
    Bill Foster
    Rube Foster
    Josh Gibson
    Frank Grant
    Pete Hill
    Judy Johnson
    Masaichi Kaneda
    Buck Leonard
    John Henry Lloyd
    Dick Lundy
    Biz Mackey
    Jose Mendez
    Dobie Moore
    Katsuya Nomura
    Sadaharu Oh
    Alejandro Oms
    Satchel Paige
    Spotswood Poles
    Double Duty Radcliffe
    Dick Redding
    Louis Santop
    Hilton Smith
    Victor Starffin
    Turkey Stearnes
    Mule Suttles
    Quincy Trouppe
    Bullet Rogan
    Ben Taylor
    Cristobal Torriente
    Joe Williams
    Jud Wilson


    Managers -

    Walter Alston
    Sparky Anderson
    Leo Durocher
    Ned Hanlon
    Bucky Harris
    Whitey Herzog
    Miller Huggins
    Tommy Lasorda
    Al Lopez
    Connie Mack
    Billy Martin
    Joe McCarthy
    John McGraw
    Bill McKechnie
    Danny Murtaugh
    Frank Selee
    Billy Southworth
    Casey Stengel
    Earl Weaver
    Dick Williams
    Harry Wright


    Executives/Pioneers -

    Doc Adams
    Ed Barrow
    Alexander Cartwright
    Henry Chadwick
    Happy Chandler
    Jack Dunn
    John B. Foster
    Rube Foster
    Pat Gillick
    John Heydler
    William Hulbert
    Ban Johnson
    Bill Klem
    Kenesaw M. Landis
    Larry MacPhail
    Effa Manley
    Marvin Miller
    Walter O'Malley
    Alex Pompez
    Cum Posey
    Branch Rickey
    Jacob Ruppert
    John Schuerholz
    Albert Goodwill Spalding
    J.G. Taylor Spink
    George Steinbrenner
    Bill Veeck
    George Weiss
    Sol White
    J.L. Wilkinson

    Future Hall of Fame Contenders -

    Catchers -
    Joe Mauer (active)
    Jorge Posada (active)
    Ivan Rodriguez (active)

    First Basemen -
    Todd Helton (active)
    Albert Pujols (active)
    Frank Thomas (2008)
    Jim Thome (active)
    Joey Votto (active)

    Second Basemen -
    Robinson Cano (active)
    Jeff Kent (2008)

    Third Basemen -
    Chipper Jones (active)
    Scott Rolen (active)
    David Wright (active)

    Shortstops -
    Derek Jeter (active)
    Alex Rodriguez (active)

    Left Fielders -
    Manny Ramirez (2011)

    Center Fielders -
    Jim Edmonds (2010)
    Ken Griffey Jr. (2010)
    Andruw Jones (active)

    Right Fielders -
    Vladimir Guerrero (active)
    Gary Sheffield (2009)
    Ichiro Suzuki (active)


    Starting Pitchers -
    Tom Glavine (2008)
    Roy Halladay (active)
    Randy Johnson (2009)
    Greg Maddux (2008)
    Pedro Martinez (2009)
    Mike Mussina (2008)
    John Smoltz (2009)

    Relief Pitchers -
    Trevor Hoffman (2010)
    Mariano Rivera (active)
    Billy Wagner (2010)

    Managers -
    Bobby Cox (2010)
    Terry Francona (active)
    Tony LaRussa (active)
    Lou Piniella (2010)
    Joe Torre (2010)

    Executives/Pioneers -
    Billy Beane (active)
    Bill James (active)
    Last edited by Richard Stark; 01-30-2013 at 12:31 AM.

  4. #429
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    Wow, two new ballots! Thanks, guys. I'll update the totals soon. Richard, I'll probably hold off on adding yours until you get everybody in. No rush. It's just easier for me to tabulate that way.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  5. #430
    It looks like I kicked Puckett out, but got Keith Hernandez in!

    I'm shocked that Bobby Grich doesn't collectivey have 75%, but i'll get him (and Rixey & Faber) really close to in. I'm biased toward reds, but i am surprised that Red Faber isn't thought a little higher of.

    If anyone notices a multi-position player I may've overlooked, please tell me. I totally missed Dick Allen and Stan Musial because I did my hall of fame by position (as I was doing this I thought of others like Rose, Banks, Carew, Killebrew, King Kelly as I went, but probably forgot someone else important).

  6. #431
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    Updated again. Keith Hernandez is back in the Hall now.

    Any more...?
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  7. #432
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorechop View Post
    It looks like I kicked Puckett out, but got Keith Hernandez in!

    I'm shocked that Bobby Grich doesn't collectivey have 75%, but i'll get him (and Rixey & Faber) really close to in. I'm biased toward reds, but i am surprised that Red Faber isn't thought a little higher of.

    .
    Faber had two great years, one really good year and a whole lot of blah. No thanks. Rixey was Faber, but downgrading the two great years with two good years. Double no thanks.
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    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
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  8. #433
    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Faber had two great years, one really good year and a whole lot of blah. No thanks. Rixey was Faber, but downgrading the two great years with two good years. Double no thanks.
    I will grant you only two superb year and a lot of compiling. (I come off as combatative a lot, but I'm trying to start a rousing argument here). I noticed that you put in Tommy Bridges (and you have posts where you reference WAR without being overly skeptical). I see Tommy Bridges with 126 ERA+ in over 2800 IP. Of course, Faber pitched far longer, but if you only look at until 1925 he has about 15 fewer IP than Bridges with a 125 ERA+. His WAR at this point in his career is 44.7 compared to bridges 48.1. The difference is, Faber's peak is far higher than Bridges (a 10 and 8 WAR season, where Bridges has just a 6 and a 5).

    Now, you can definitely counter that Bridges was more often in the top 5 pitchers in his league, but never was he first or second. Faber was first one year, and second another. Then it comes down to how you value peak. I guess I'm making the argument that Faber did very nearly what Bridges did, but then added another 17 war and 1200+ IP at a 109 ERA+. I did let in a few pitchers like Bridges, but I usually was looking for them to be a little more dominant in exchange for their shorter careers.

  9. #434
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorechop View Post
    I will grant you only two superb year and a lot of compiling. (I come off as combatative a lot, but I'm trying to start a rousing argument here). I noticed that you put in Tommy Bridges (and you have posts where you reference WAR without being overly skeptical). I see Tommy Bridges with 126 ERA+ in over 2800 IP. Of course, Faber pitched far longer, but if you only look at until 1925 he has about 15 fewer IP than Bridges with a 125 ERA+. His WAR at this point in his career is 44.7 compared to bridges 48.1. The difference is, Faber's peak is far higher than Bridges (a 10 and 8 WAR season, where Bridges has just a 6 and a 5).

    Now, you can definitely counter that Bridges was more often in the top 5 pitchers in his league, but never was he first or second. Faber was first one year, and second another. Then it comes down to how you value peak. I guess I'm making the argument that Faber did very nearly what Bridges did, but then added another 17 war and 1200+ IP at a 109 ERA+. I did let in a few pitchers like Bridges, but I usually was looking for them to be a little more dominant in exchange for their shorter careers.
    I no longer support Bridges. May have been an over-site the first time, as I never remember supporting him. I had to check my original list to see that he was really on there. They are both in the 80's or so all-time for me. Faber did have the bigger peak, but Bridges had a lot more quality secondary seasons and missed two seasons due to military service. Slight edge in league quality too. I think those things balance out the two big Faber years. Either way, you are right, they are pretty close. Still not sure how Bridges snuck on my list.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

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    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  10. #435
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    I no longer support Bridges. May have been an over-site the first time, as I never remember supporting him. I had to check my original list to see that he was really on there. They are both in the 80's or so all-time for me. Faber did have the bigger peak, but Bridges had a lot more quality secondary seasons and missed two seasons due to military service. Slight edge in league quality too. I think those things balance out the two big Faber years. Either way, you are right, they are pretty close. Still not sure how Bridges snuck on my list.
    So I should drop Bridges from your ballot?
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  11. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJC View Post
    So I should drop Bridges from your ballot?
    Yes - I was hoping to make all of my corrections at one time. Could I just tell you who I want to add and who I want to drop, or do I need to alphabetize everybody again?
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  12. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Yes - I was hoping to make all of my corrections at one time. Could I just tell you who I want to add and who I want to drop, or do I need to alphabetize everybody again?
    Here's everyone I currently have you down as voting for:

    Aaron, Hank
    Alexander, Pete
    Allen, Dick
    Alomar, Roberto
    Anson, Cap
    Appling, Luke
    Ashburn, Richie
    Averill, Earl
    Baker, Home Run
    Bando, Sal
    Banks, Ernie
    Beckley, Jake
    Bell, Cool Papa
    Bench, Johnny
    Berra, Yogi
    Blyleven, Bert
    Boggs, Wade
    Boudreau, Lou
    Boyer, Ken
    Brett, George
    Bridges, Tommy
    Brouthers, Dan
    Brown, Mordecai
    Brown, Raymond
    Brown, Willard
    Bunning, Jim
    Burkett, Jesse
    Campanella, Roy
    Carew, Rod
    Carey, Max
    Carlton, Steve
    Carter, Gary
    Caruthers, Bob
    Charleston, Oscar
    Clark, Will
    Clarke, Fred
    Clarkson, John
    Clemente, Roberto
    Cobb, Ty
    Cochrane, Mickey
    Collins, Eddie
    Collins, Jimmy
    Connor, Roger
    Coveleski, Stan
    Crawford, Sam
    Cronin, Joe
    Dahlen, Bill
    Dandridge, Ray
    Davis, George
    Dawson, Andre
    Day, Leon
    Delahanty, Ed
    Dickey, Bill
    Dihigo, Martin
    DiMaggio, Joe
    Doby, Larry
    Doerr, Bobby
    Drysdale, Don
    Eckersley, Dennis
    Evans, Darrell
    Evans, Dwight
    Ewing, Buck
    Faber, Red
    Feller, Bob
    Ferrell, Wes
    Fisk, Carlton
    Flick, Elmer
    Ford, Whitey
    Foster, Bill
    Foxx, Jimmie
    Frisch, Frankie
    Galvin, Pud
    Gehrig, Lou
    Gehringer, Charlie
    Gibson, Bob
    Gibson, Josh
    Glasscock, Jack
    Gordon, Joe
    Goslin, Goose
    Gossage, Rich
    Grant, Frank
    Greenberg, Hank
    Grich, Bobby
    Griffith, Clark
    Grove, Lefty
    Gwynn, Tony
    Hack, Stan
    Hamilton, Billy
    Hartnett, Gabby
    Heilmann, Harry
    Henderson, Rickey
    Herman, Billy
    Hernandez, Keith
    Hill, Pete
    Hornsby, Rogers
    Hubbell, Carl
    Irvin, Monte
    Jackson, Reggie
    Jenkins, Fergie
    Johnson, Judy
    Johnson, Walter
    Kaline, Al
    Keefe, Tim
    Keeler, Willie
    Kelley, Joe
    Kelly, King
    Killebrew, Harmon
    Kiner, Ralph
    Koufax, Sandy
    Lajoie, Nap
    Larkin, Barry
    Lazzeri, Tony
    Lemon, Bob
    Leonard, Buck
    Lloyd, Pop
    Lyons, Ted
    Mackey, Biz
    Magee, Sherry
    Mantle, Mickey
    Marichal, Juan
    Martinez, Edgar
    Mathews, Eddie
    Mathewson, Christy
    Mays, Willie
    McCovey, Willie
    McGinnity, Joe
    McGraw, John
    McPhee, Bid
    Medwick, Joe
    Mendez, Jose
    Minoso, Minnie
    Mize, Johnny
    Molitor, Paul
    Morgan, Joe
    Mullane, Tony
    Murray, Eddie
    Musial, Stan
    Nettles, Graig
    Newhouser, Hal
    Nichols, Kid
    Niekro, Phil
    O'Rourke, Jim
    Ott, Mel
    Paige, Satchel
    Palmer, Jim
    Perry, Gaylord
    Pierce, Billy
    Plank, Eddie
    Puckett, Kirby
    Radbourn, Old Hoss
    Raines, Tim
    Randolph, Willie
    Reese, Pee Wee
    Reuschel, Rick
    Ripken, Cal
    Rixey, Eppa
    Roberts, Robin
    Robinson, Brooks
    Robinson, Frank
    Robinson, Jackie
    Rogan, Bullet
    Ruffing, Red
    Rusie, Amos
    Ruth, Babe
    Ryan, Nolan
    Saberhagen, Bret
    Sandberg, Ryne
    Santo, Ron
    Santop, Louis
    Schmidt, Mike
    Seaver, Tom
    Sewell, Joe
    Shocker, Urban
    Simmons, Al
    Simmons, Ted
    Sisler, George
    Slaughter, Enos
    Smith, Hilton
    Smith, Ozzie
    Snider, Duke
    Spahn, Warren
    Speaker, Tris
    Stargell, Willie
    Stearnes, Turkey
    Stieb, Dave
    Suttles, Mule
    Sutton, Don
    Taylor, Ben
    Terry, Bill
    Tiant, Luis
    Torre, Joe
    Torriente, Cristobal
    Trammell, Alan
    Vance, Dazzy
    Vaughan, Arky
    Waddell, Rube
    Wagner, Honus
    Wallace, Bobby
    Walsh, Ed
    Waner, Paul
    Ward, Monte
    Wells, Willie
    Wheat, Zack
    Whitaker, Lou
    Wilhelm, Hoyt
    Williams, Billy
    Williams, Joe
    Williams, Ted
    Willis, Vic
    Wilson, Jud
    Winfield, Dave
    Wynn, Early
    Yastrzemski, Carl
    Young, Cy
    Yount, Robin

    Would you be able to add 2005-07 retirees to your list? And if you're interested, you could make a list of Future HOFers (played in 2008 or later) and/or a list of Contributors.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  13. #438
    The below only matters if you support Tommy John which the above post doesn't list, but is listed on the first page (unless I'm reading that list incorrectly).


    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    I no longer support Bridges. May have been an over-site the first time, as I never remember supporting him. I had to check my original list to see that he was really on there. They are both in the 80's or so all-time for me. Faber did have the bigger peak, but Bridges had a lot more quality secondary seasons and missed two seasons due to military service. Slight edge in league quality too. I think those things balance out the two big Faber years. Either way, you are right, they are pretty close. Still not sure how Bridges snuck on my list.

    I feel like I just wronged Tommy Bridges (sorry!). How about Tommy John vs. Red Faber. Since John actually pitched more than Faber (and hurt his stats at the end), i'll take just to 1984. This puts Tommy at 4125 IP (Red is 4086) 114 ERA+ (119 for Red) 54.4 WAR, 24 WAA (red 61.9 WAR 28.6 WAA). They both have only 3 seasons above 5 WAR, but Tommy's are 5.3 5.3 & 5.2 compared to Red's 10.8, 8.9 and 5.3. Faber was pitching more innings per year to get some of those high totals, but he still ends up 7.5 war ahead in 40 fewer innings (when examining John only to 1984).

    Tommy John is 4 times top 10 pitcher in his league (by war), but only 1 time in the top 5. Faber is twice #1 and three times overall top 10 (my previous post on Bridges I think I was looking at Faber's WAR vs all players, not just pitchers). You can of course point to the difference in opposition (Faber playing pre-integration), but is Faber really that different from Tommy John (when you take off his last few seasons, where he hurts his ERA and earns -2 WAA and 2.5 WAR)?
    Last edited by baltimorechop; 01-24-2013 at 08:33 AM. Reason: maybe none of this matters!

  14. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorechop View Post
    The below only matters if you support Tommy John which the above post doesn't list, but is listed on the first page (unless I'm reading that list incorrectly).





    I feel like I just wronged Tommy Bridges (sorry!). How about Tommy John vs. Red Faber. Since John actually pitched more than Faber (and hurt his stats at the end), i'll take just to 1984. This puts Tommy at 4125 IP (Red is 4086) 114 ERA+ (119 for Red) 54.4 WAR, 24 WAA (red 61.9 WAR 28.6 WAA). They both have only 3 seasons above 5 WAR, but Tommy's are 5.3 5.3 & 5.2 compared to Red's 10.8, 8.9 and 5.3. Faber was pitching more innings per year to get some of those high totals, but he still ends up 7.5 war ahead in 40 fewer innings (when examining John only to 1984).

    Tommy John is 4 times top 10 pitcher in his league (by war), but only 1 time in the top 5. Faber is twice #1 and three times overall top 10 (my previous post on Bridges I think I was looking at Faber's WAR vs all players, not just pitchers). You can of course point to the difference in opposition (Faber playing pre-integration), but is Faber really that different from Tommy John (when you take off his last few seasons, where he hurts his ERA and earns -2 WAA and 2.5 WAR)?
    I do not support John either. I have Faber 77th all time and John 79th. The LQ issue and John's WPA "Clutch" score close the two-big year gap some for me. Also, both pitched very well in postseason, but John did it for 60 more innings than Faber. FWIW, both are in the next 10 who I would put in, but don't.
    Last edited by Bothrops Atrox; 01-24-2013 at 09:11 AM.
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  15. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorechop View Post
    The below only matters if you support Tommy John which the above post doesn't list, but is listed on the first page (unless I'm reading that list incorrectly).
    In a subsequent post, he asked that John be dropped from his ballot.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  16. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by DJC View Post
    In a subsequent post, he asked that John be dropped from his ballot.
    Man, I don't remember any of that.
    1885 1886 1926 1931 1934 1942 1944 1946 1964 1967 1982 2006 2011

    1887 1888 1928 1930 1943 1968 1985 1987 2004 2013

    1996 2000 2001 2002 2005 2009 2012 2014


    The Top 100 Pitchers In MLB History
    The Top 100 Position Players In MLB History

  17. #442
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matthew C. View Post
    Man, I don't remember any of that.
    Neither did I. I just had to scan the thread to find it.

    Plus, it was almost 3 years ago.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  18. #443
    I should've read more than just the first page (I did try to confirm with the charts in post #1, but i'm on an old version of Explorer at work and it really does look like there's an 'X' in the first column on this computer next to Tommy John. Explorer 7 for the loss!)

    I feel like i'm going to owe more than Tommy Bridges an apology after Matthew subtracts from his Hall of Fame. Sorry Red & Eppa!

  19. #444
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    Quote Originally Posted by baltimorechop View Post
    I should've read more than just the first page (I did try to confirm with the charts in post #1, but i'm on an old version of Explorer at work and it really does look like there's an 'X' in the first column on this computer next to Tommy John. Explorer 7 for the loss!)

    I feel like i'm going to owe more than Tommy Bridges an apology after Matthew subtracts from his Hall of Fame. Sorry Red & Eppa!
    I found that if you triple-click a line of text in the chart, it highlights the whole row for you. Makes it easier to see who voted for whom.

    I also reformatted the charts to make them more compact. Let me know what you all think.
    Last edited by Nerdlinger; 01-24-2013 at 10:41 AM.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  20. #445
    I just added Benny Kauff to my personal HOF.

  21. #446
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjpm74 View Post
    I just added Benny Kauff to my personal HOF.
    Got it. BTW, with Richard Stark's ballot, you've been surpassed for 2nd largest Hall.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  22. #447
    Thank you for the correction on Lefty Grove.,

  23. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Stark View Post
    Thank you for the correction on Lefty Grove.,
    No prob. Everyone loves Lefty.
    *** Submit your personal HOF as your ballot for the Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame! *** Also: Buck the Fraves!

  24. #449
    I'd like to add negro league players, but first think I should read a book. Would anyone rec "only the ball was white"? Please throw out any others, I take any of your opinions far higher than amazon reviews.

  25. #450
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    I'd recommend the stuff in my own musings thread in this forum (it's a stickied thread, so it's one of the top three or four). Baseball Think Factory in its Hall of Merit has some excellent discussions of Negro Leaguers.
    Seen on a bumper sticker: If only closed minds came with closed mouths.
    Some minds are like concrete--thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
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