Single Ballot BBF Hall of Fame

[Nerdlinger]

Hooray! A new ballot! Thanks, Savoy. John and Cougar, your changes will be in the next update. Toledo -- many thanks for the ballot, but if you don't mind I'm going to hold off on adding it to the main list until you get to the non-HOFers. No rush. It's just easier for me to tabulate the results that way.

[Jar of Flies]

Revised Person Hall of Fame Ballot

Hello all,

Just wanted to update my person rankings.

Hank Aaron*^
Pete Alexander*
Dick Allen
Roberto Alomar*
Cap Anson*
Kevin Appier
Luke Appling*
Richie Ashburn*
Jeff Bagwell
Home Run Baker*
Dave Bancroft*
Ernie Banks*^
Ross Barnes
John Beckwith^
Buddy Bell
Johnny Bench*
Charlie Bennett
Yogi Berra*
Akira Bessho
Craig Biggio
Bert Blyleven*
Wade Boggs*
Tommy Bond
Barry Bonds
Lou Boudreau*
Roger Bresnahan*
Kevin Brown
George Brett*
Dan Brouthers*
Mordecai Brown*
Raymond Brown*^
Jim Bunning*
Jesse Burkett*
Roy Campanella*^
Bert Campaneris
Max Carey*
Rod Carew*
Steve Carlton*
Gary Carter*
Perucho Cepeda^
Oscar Charleston*^
Cupid Childs
Eddie Cicotte
Will Clark
Fred Clarke*
John Clarkson*
Roger Clemens
Roberto Clemente*
Ty Cobb*
Mickey Cochrane*
Eddie Collins*
Jimmy Collins*
David Cone
Roger Connor*
Stan Coveleski*
Gavvy Cravath
Sam Crawford*
Joe Cronin*
Bill Dahlen
George Davis*
Andre Dawson*
Ed Delahanty*
Bill Dickey*
Martin Dihigo*^
Joe DiMaggio*
Larry Doby*^
Bobby Doerr*
Don Drysdale*
Dennis Eckersley*
Dwight Evans
Darrell Evans
Buck Ewing*
Red Faber*
Bob Feller*
Wes Ferrell
Carlton Fisk*
Art Fletcher
Elmer Flick*
Whitey Ford*
Bill Foster*^
Rube Foster°^
Jimmie Foxx*
Frankie Frisch*
Pud Galvin*
Lou Gehrig*
Charlie Gehringer*
Bob Gibson*
Josh Gibson*^
Jack Glasscock
Dwight Gooden
Joe Gordon*
George Gore
Goose Goslin*
Rich Gossage*
Frank Grant*^
Hank Greenberg*
Bobby Grich
Clark Griffith°
Heinie Groh
Lefty Grove*
Tony Gwynn*
Billy Hamilton*
Isao Harimoto
Gabby Hartnett*
Harry Heilmann*
Rickey Henderson*
Billy Herman*
Keith Hernandez
Pete Hill*^
Paul Hines
Rogers Hornsby*
Carl Hubbell*
Kazuhisa Inao
Monte Irvin*^
Reggie Jackson*
Shoeless Joe Jackso
Fergie Jenkins*
Hughie Jennings*
Grant Johnson^
Walter Johnson*
Charley Jones
Al Kaline*
Masaichi Kaneda
Tetsuharu Kawakami
Tim Keefe*
Willie Keeler*
Charlie Keller
Joe Kelley*
King Kelly*
Harmon Killebrew*
Sandy Koufax*
Masaaki Koyama
Nap Lajoie*
Barry Larkin*
Tommy Leach
Buck Leonard*^
Omar Linares
Pop Lloyd*^
Kenny Lofton
Dick Lundy^
Ted Lyons*
Biz Mackey*^
Sherry Magee
Mickey Mantle*
Juan Marichal*
Edgar Martinez
Eddie Mathews*
Christy Mathewson*
Willie Mays*^
Willie McCovey*
Joe McGinnity*
John McGraw°
Mark McGwire
Bid McPhee*
Cal McVey
Jose Mendez*^
Minnie Minoso^
Johnny Mize*
Paul Molitor*
Joe Morgan*
Thurman Munson
Eddie Murray*
Stan Musial*
Shigeo Nagashima
Graig Nettles
Don Newcombe^
Hal Newhouser*
Kid Nichols*
Katsuya Nomura
Phil Niekro*
Hiromitsu Ochiai
Sadaharu Oh
Alejandro Oms^
Jim O'Rourke*
Mel Ott*
Satchel Paige*^
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Palmer*
Dickey Pearce
Gaylord Perry*
Johnny Pesky
Mike Piazza
Billy Pierce
Lip Pike
Eddie Plank*
Old Hoss Radbourn*
Tim Raines
Willie Randolph
Pee Wee Reese*
Rick Reuschel
Hardy Richardson
Cal Ripken*
Phil Rizzuto*
Robin Roberts*
Brooks Robinson*
Frank Robinson*
Jackie Robinson*^
Bullet Rogan*^
Pete Rose
Red Ruffing*
Amos Rusie*
Babe Ruth*
Nolan Ryan*
Bret Saberhagen
Ryne Sandberg*
Ron Santo*
Louis Santop*^
Curt Schilling
Mike Schmidt*
Tom Seaver*
Joe Sewell*
Jimmy Sheckard
Urban Shocker
Al Simmons*
Ted Simmons
George Sisler*
Enos Slaughter*
Hilton Smith*^
Ozzie Smith*
Reggie Smith
Duke Snider*
Sammy Sosa
Warren Spahn*
Al Spalding°
Tris Speaker*
Victor Starffin
Willie Stargell*
Joe Start
Turkey Stearnes*^
Dave Stieb
Mule Suttles*^
Don Sutton*
Ezra Sutton
Bill Terry*
Cristobal Torriente
Alan Trammell
Quincy Trouppe^
Dazzy Vance*
Arky Vaughan*
Bobby Veach
Rube Waddell*
Honus Wagner*
Larry Walker
Bobby Wallace*
Ed Walsh*
Paul Waner*
Monte Ward*
Willie Wells*^
Zack Wheat*
Lou Whitaker
Deacon White
Hoyt Wilhelm*
Billy Williams*
Joe Williams*^
Ted Williams*
Ned Williamson
Vic Willis*
Jud Wilson*^
Dave Winfield*
George Wright°
Early Wynn*
Jim Wynn
Carl Yastrzemski*
Cy Young*
Robin Yount*

Not yet eligible for the Hall of Fame, but worthy:
Carlos Beltran
Jim Edmonds
Jason Giambi
Brian Giles
Tom Glavine
Ken Griffey
Vladimir Guerrero
Roy Halladay
Todd Helton
Derek Jeter
Randy Johnson
Chipper Jones
Greg Maddux
Pedro Martinez
Mike Mussina
Jorge Posada
Albert Pujols
Manny Ramirez
Mariano Rivera
Alex Rodriguez
Ivan Rodriguez
Scott Rolen
CC Sabathia
Johan Santana
Gary Sheffield
John Smoltz
Ichiro Suzuki
Frank Thomas
Jim Thome

Newly elected are:
Tommy Bond
Eddie Cicotte
Art Fletcher
Doc Gooden
Charley Jones
Johan Santana
Bill Terry
Bobby Veach
George Uhle

The next are in the consideration set, notes have been made for those who have moved out of the personal hall since my last update (DOWN) and those moved onto the consideration set (UP)


Bobby Abreu
Babe Adams DOWN
Buzz Arlett
Jake Beckley
Cool Papa Bell
Albert Belle UP
Adrian Beltre UP
Lance Berkman
Bobby Bonds
Ken Boyer
Tommy Bridges
Willard Brown
Pete Browning UP
Charlie Buffinton
Miguel Cabrera UP
Bob Caruthers DOWN
Norm Cash
Ron Cey
Bus Clarkson
David Concepcion
Wilbur Cooper
Jose Cruz
Kiki Cuyler
Dizzy Dean
Fred Dunlap
Luke Easter
Yutaka Enatsu
Chuck Finley
Davy Force
Bill Freehan DOWN
Jim Fregosi
Burleigh Grimes UP
Stan Hack DOWN
Orel Hershiser DOWN
Trevor Hoffman
Elston Howard UP
Tim Hudson UP
Tommy John
Bob Johnson
Andruw Jones
Jeff Kent
Ralph Kiner
Jerry Koosman UP
Chet Lemon
Joe Mauer DOWN
Joe Medwick
Bill Monroe DOWN
Dobie Moore
Tony Mullane
Roy Oswalt
Andy Pettitte UP
Dick Redding
Eppa Rixey
Harry Stovey
Ben Taylor
Gene Tenace
Sam Thompson
Luis Tiant
Joe Tinker UP
Joe Torre
Chase Utley
Roy White UP
Jim Whitney
Bernie Williams
Tetsuya Yoneda

I would like to elect at least one more 19th century hurler, but I have trouble trusting the metrics.
Anecdotely/reputation wise, does anyone standout amongst:
Caruthers, Whitney, McCormick, or Welch?

P.S. - Matthew C - can you update the most recent hall of fame eligibles - I like to compare my choices to yours.

Tentative attempt at contributors:
A. J. Reach
Al Barlick
Al Lopez
Alexander Cartwright
Ban Johnson
Ben Shibe
Bill James
Bill Klem
Bill McKechnie
Bill Veeck
Billy Evans
Billy Martin
Billy Southworth
Bob Davids
Bob Ferguson
Bobby Cox
Branch Rickey
Buck Canel
Buck O’Neil
C. I. Taylor
Casey Stengel
Charles Comiskey
Charles Conlon
Connie Mack
Cum Posey
David Neft
Dick Williams
Doc Adams
Doug Harvey
Earl Weaver
Ed Barrow
Ed Bolden
Ford Frick
Francis Richter
Frank Chance
Frank Selee
George Steinbrenner
George Weiss
Harry Wright
Henry Chadwick
Iso Abe
J. L. Wilkinson
J.G. Taylor Spink
Jack Dunn
Jacob Ruppert
Jim Creighton
Jocko Conlan
Joe McCarthy
John Schierholtz
Kazuto Tsuruoaka
Kenesaw Landis
Larry MacPhail
Leo Durocher
Marvin Miller
Matsutaro Shoriki
Mel Allen
Miller Huggins
Ned Hanlon
O. P. Caylor
Pat Gillick
Red Barber
Shigeru Mizuhara
Sol White
Sparky Anderson
Tetsuharu Kawakami
Tom Connolly
Tommy Lasorda
Tony LaRussa
Vic Harris
Vin Scully
Walter Alston
Walter O'Malley
Whitey Herzog
William Hulbert

[Bothrops Atrox]

P.S. - Matthew C - can you update the most recent hall of fame eligibles - I like to compare my choices to yours.

Mine has changed a lot since I did it a few years ago. I might try to get around to posting an update here soon.

[Nerdlinger]

Mine has changed a lot since I did it a few years ago. I might try to get around to posting an update here soon.

I'd be much obliged if you would.

[Nerdlinger]

Thanks for the update, Jar of Flies.

I tabulated the votes again. Unusually, no change to the Hall of Fame here. Six contributors dropped out of the Hall of Honor: Happy Chandler, Bucky Harris, John Heydler, Alex Pompez, Lou Piniella, and Joe Torre.

More votes for the vote god!

[Jar of Flies]

Overlooked joe torre and alex pompez on the contributors, please add

[Nerdlinger]

Overlooked joe torre and alex pompez on the contributors, please add

Got it. So after a brief stint outside the Hall of Honor, both men are back in.

[baltimorechop]

Not doing Negro League or Pioneers. I'm also not touching active players, but only retired (or those who appear like they are about to be retired). + means they are retired (or i think they are about to be) and I will put them in my HOF as soon as eligible. I don't abide by 10 year minimum play time, nor the ineligible list. Additionally, I break down by position which means I had to make some judgment calls on which position I consider some players. This may've caused me to miss some dual position players, like I nearly forgot Musial.


Pitchers (80 + 4)

Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Schilling
Seaver
Grove
Nichols
Alexander
Clemens
Niekro
Mathewson
Blyleven
Perry
Spahn
Plank
Carlton
Clarkson
Keefe
Galvin
Bob Gibson
Jenkins
Nolan Ryan
Robin Roberts
Vic Willis
Sutton
Palmer
Kevin Brown
Reuschel
Rusie
Hubbell
Radbourn
Jim McCormick
Faber
Tiant
Lyons
Coveleski
Vance
Feller
Walsh
Welch
Eckersley
Cone
Marichal
Spalding
Waddell
Drysdale
Koufax
Ford
Three Finger Brown
Rixey
Mullane
Newhouser
Bunning
McGinnity
Ruffing
Wes Ferrell
Wynn
Joss
Wilhelm
Gossage
Caruthers
Bucky Walters
Hershiser
Shocker
Babe Adams
B Pierce
W Cooper
Noodles Hahn
Dizzy Dean
Dave Stieb
C Griffith
Tommy John
Saberhagen
Appier
Cicotte
Maddux
Glavine
Mussina
Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
R Johnson

+M Rivera
+Halladay
+Oswalt
+Pettitte

Catcher (18 + 1)
Bench
Carter
Berra
Dickey
Torre
Piazza
Fisk
Hartnett
Cochrane
Simmons
Tenace
Lombardi
Schang
Munson
Ewing
Bresnahan
Campanella
C Bennett

+Ivan Rodriguez

1B (18 + 2)
Gehrig
Foxx
Connor
Anson
Brouthers
Bagwell
Mize
Murray
McCovey
Palmeiro
Killebrew
Sisler
Terry
Greenberg
K Hernandez
D Allen
W Clark
Beckley


+Thome
+Helton

2B (20)
Hornsby
Eddie Collins
Lajoie
Morgan
Whitaker
Frisch
Grich
Gehringer
Sandberg
Alomar
Biggio
Jackie Robinson
Willie Randolph
Joe Gordon
Billy Herman
Bid McPhee
Carew
Ross Barnes
Hardy Richardson
Jeff Kent

3B (18 + 2)
Schmidt
Mathews
Boggs
Brett
Brooks Robinson
Nettles
Buddy Bell
Santo
Home Run Baker
Boyer
Bando
Deacon White
Darrell Evans
McGraw
Heinie Groh
Jimmy Collins
Bob Elliott
Stan Hack

+Rolen
+ Jones

SS (18 + 1)
Wagner
Ripken
George Davis
Yount
Dahlen
Ozzie Smith
Vaughan
Larkin
Trammell
Appling
Wallace
Reese
Banks
Cronin
Glasscock
Boudreau
Monte Ward
Jennings

+Jeter

LF (23 + 1)
Musial
T Williams
B Williams
Henderson
Delahanty
Yaz
Rose
Raines
Simmons
Clarke
Goslin
Burkett
Wheat
Sherry Magee
Stargell
Indian Bob Johnson
Medwick
Minoso
Joe Kelley
Kiner
Bonds
O'Rourke
Stovey

+Manny Ramirez

CF (19 + 2)
Mays
Cobb
Speaker
Mantle
Snider
Hamilton
DiMaggio
Ashburn
Carey
Doby
Averill
Dawson
Reggie Smith
Paul Hines
George Gore
Lofton
Puckett
Pete Browning
Willie Davis

+Griffey
+Edmonds
+andruw Jones

RF (22 + 2)
Aaron
Ott
Ruth
Winfield
Slaughter
Keeler
Flick
Shoeless Jackson
King Kelly
Frank Robinson
Sam Thompson
Dwight Evans
Gwynn
Heilmann
Reggie Jackson
Larry Walker
Paul Waner
Sam Crawford
Kaline
Clemente
Bobby Bonds
Sheffield

+Vlad Guerrero
+Abreu

DH (3)
Molitor
Edgar Martinez
Frank Thomas

[Richard Stark]

I am new to the project and will be adding a group every couple of days until my list is complete.I will make a list for Negro League, Mexican League and other leagues as I get time.

Catchers -

Johnny Bench
Charlie Bennett
Yogi Berra
Roger Bresnahan
Roy Campanella
Gary Carter
Mickey Cochrane
Bill Dickey
Buck Ewing
Carlton Fisk
Bill Freehan
Gabby Hartnett
Elston Howard
Ernie Lombardi
Thurman Munson
Lance Parrish
Mike Piazza
Wally Schang
Ted Simmons
Joe Torre
Deacon White

1st Base -

Cap Anson
Dick Allen
Jeff Bagwell
Jake Beckley
Dan Brouthers
Orlando Cepeda
Frank Chance
Will Clark
Roger Connor
Jimmie Foxx
Lou Gehrig
Hank Greenberg
Keith Hernandez
Gil Hodges
Harmon Killebrew
Willie McCovey
Fred McGriff
Cal McVey
Mark McGwire
Johnny Mize
Eddie Murray
Rafael Palmeiro
Tony Perez
George Sisler
Joe Start
Bill Terry
Hal Trosky

2nd Base -

Roberto Alomar
Ross Barnes
Craig Biggio
Rod Carew
Cupid Childs
Eddie Collins
Bobby Doerr
Larry Doyle
Frankie Frisch
Charlie Gehringer
Bobby Grich
Joe Gordon
Billy Herman
Rogers Hornsby
Jeff Kent
Nap Lajoie
Tony Lazzeri
Bid McPhee
Joe Morgan
Willie Randolph
Hardy Richardson
Jackie Robinson
Ryne Sandberg
Lou Whitaker
Frank White

Shortstops -

Luke Appling
Ernie Banks
Lou Boudreau
Joe Cronin
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Jack Glasscock
Hughie Jennings
Barry Larkin
Dickey Pearce
Pee Wee Reese
Cal Ripken Jr.
Ozzie Smith
Vern Stephens
Alan Trammell
Arky Vaughan
Honus Wagner
John Montgomery Ward
George Wright
Robin Yount

3rd Base -

Frank Baker
Sal Bando
Wade Boggs
Ken Boyer
George Brett
Jimmy Collins
Bob Elliott
Darrell Evans
Heinie Groh
Stan Hack
Tommy Leach
Edgar Martinez
Eddie Mathews
John McGraw
Paul Molitor
Graig Nettles
Brooks Robinson
Al Rosen
Ron Santo
Mike Schmidt
Ezra Sutton
Pie Traynor


Left Fielders -

Albert Belle
Barry Bonds
Lou Brock
Jesse Burkett
Fred Clarke
Gavvy Cravath
Ed Delahanty
Goose Goslin
Rickey Henderson
Monte Irvin
Shoeless Joe Jackson
Bob Johnson
Ralph Kiner
Sherry Magee
Joe Medwick
Minnie Minoso
Stan Musial
Jim O'Rourke
Tim Raines
Jimmy Sheckard
Al Simmons
Willie Stargell
Harry Stovey
Zach Wheat
Billy Williams
Ted Williams
Carl Yastrzemski


Center Fielders -

Richie Ashburn
Earl Averill
Wally Berger
Max Carey
Ty Cobb
Joe DiMaggio
Larry Doby
Hugh Duffy
George Gore
Billy Hamilton
Paul Hines
Kenny Lofton
Fred Lynn
Mickey Mantle
Willie Mays
Dale Murphy
Tony Oliva
Lip Pike
Vada Pinson
Kirby Puckett
Edd Roush
Duke Snider
Tris Speaker
George Van Haltren
Hack Wilson
Jimmy Wynn


Right Fielders -

Hank Aaron
Bobby Bonds
Harold Baines
Roberto Clemente
Sam Crawford
Andre Dawson
Dwight Evans
Tony Gwynn
Harry Heilmann
Reggie Jackson
Al Kaline
Willie Keeler
King Kelly
Mel Ott
Frank Robinson
Pete Rose
Babe Ruth
Enos Slaughter
Reggie Smith
Sammy Sosa
Sam Thompson
Paul Waner
Larry Walker
Dave Winfield

Starting Pitchers -

Grover Cleveland Alexander
Chief Bender
Vida Blue
Bert Blyleven
Tommy Bridges
Mordecai Brown
Jim Bunning
Steve Carlton
Bob Caruthers
Eddie Cicotte
John Clarkson
Roger Clemens
David Cone
Wilbur Cooper
Stan Coveleski
Jim Creighton
Dizzy Dean
Don Drysdale
Red Faber
Bob Feller
Wes Ferrell
Whitey Ford
Pud Galvin
Bob Gibson
Lefty Gomez
Dwight Gooden
Clark Griffith
Burleigh Grimes
Lefty Grove
Carl Hubbell
Catfish Hunter
Fergie Jenkins
Tommy John
Walter Johnson
Addie Joss
Jim Kaat
Tim Keefe
Silver King
Sandy Koufax
Bob Lemon
Ted Lyons
Juan Marichal
Bobby Mathews
Christy Mathewson
Carl Mays
Joe McGinnity
Jack Morris
Tony Mullane
Don Newcombe
Hal Newhouser
Kid Nichols
Phil Niekro
Jim Palmer
Gaylord Perry
Billy Pierce
Eddie Plank
Charley Radbourn
Eppa Rixey
Robin Roberts
Red Ruffing
Amos Rusie
Babe Ruth
Nolan Ryan
Bret Saberhagen
Curt Schilling
Tom Seaver
Urban Shocker
Warren Spahn
Dave Stieb
Don Sutton
Luis Tiant
Dazzy Vance
Rube Waddell
Ed Walsh
Mickey Welch
Vic Willis
Joe Wood
Wilbur Wood
Early Wynn
Cy Young


Relievers -

Dennis Eckersley
Rollie Fingers
John Franco
Goose Gossage
Tom Henke
Doug Jones
Mike Marshall
Firpo Mayberry
Tug McGraw
Jesse Orosco
Jeff Reardon
Lee Smith
Bruce Sutter
Dan Quisenberry
John Wetteland
Hoyt Wilhelm


Negro, Mexican, Cuban, and Japanese League Players -

Cool Papa Bell
Akira Bessho
Ray Brown
Willard Brown
Perucho Cepeda
Oscar Charleston
Andy Cooper
Ray Dandridge
Leon Day
Martin DiHigo
Bill Foster
Rube Foster
Josh Gibson
Frank Grant
Pete Hill
Judy Johnson
Masaichi Kaneda
Buck Leonard
John Henry Lloyd
Dick Lundy
Biz Mackey
Jose Mendez
Dobie Moore
Katsuya Nomura
Sadaharu Oh
Alejandro Oms
Satchel Paige
Spotswood Poles
Double Duty Radcliffe
Dick Redding
Louis Santop
Hilton Smith
Victor Starffin
Turkey Stearnes
Mule Suttles
Quincy Trouppe
Bullet Rogan
Ben Taylor
Cristobal Torriente
Joe Williams
Jud Wilson


Managers -

Walter Alston
Sparky Anderson
Leo Durocher
Ned Hanlon
Bucky Harris
Whitey Herzog
Miller Huggins
Tommy Lasorda
Al Lopez
Connie Mack
Billy Martin
Joe McCarthy
John McGraw
Bill McKechnie
Danny Murtaugh
Frank Selee
Billy Southworth
Casey Stengel
Earl Weaver
Dick Williams
Harry Wright


Executives/Pioneers -

Doc Adams
Ed Barrow
Alexander Cartwright
Henry Chadwick
Happy Chandler
Jack Dunn
John B. Foster
Rube Foster
Pat Gillick
John Heydler
William Hulbert
Ban Johnson
Bill Klem
Kenesaw M. Landis
Larry MacPhail
Effa Manley
Marvin Miller
Walter O'Malley
Alex Pompez
Cum Posey
Branch Rickey
Jacob Ruppert
John Schuerholz
Albert Goodwill Spalding
J.G. Taylor Spink
George Steinbrenner
Bill Veeck
George Weiss
Sol White
J.L. Wilkinson

Future Hall of Fame Contenders -

Catchers -
Joe Mauer (active)
Jorge Posada (active)
Ivan Rodriguez (active)

First Basemen -
Todd Helton (active)
Albert Pujols (active)
Frank Thomas (2008)
Jim Thome (active)
Joey Votto (active)

Second Basemen -
Robinson Cano (active)
Jeff Kent (2008)

Third Basemen -
Chipper Jones (active)
Scott Rolen (active)
David Wright (active)

Shortstops -
Derek Jeter (active)
Alex Rodriguez (active)

Left Fielders -
Manny Ramirez (2011)

Center Fielders -
Jim Edmonds (2010)
Ken Griffey Jr. (2010)
Andruw Jones (active)

Right Fielders -
Vladimir Guerrero (active)
Gary Sheffield (2009)
Ichiro Suzuki (active)


Starting Pitchers -
Tom Glavine (2008)
Roy Halladay (active)
Randy Johnson (2009)
Greg Maddux (2008)
Pedro Martinez (2009)
Mike Mussina (2008)
John Smoltz (2009)

Relief Pitchers -
Trevor Hoffman (2010)
Mariano Rivera (active)
Billy Wagner (2010)

Managers -
Bobby Cox (2010)
Terry Francona (active)
Tony LaRussa (active)
Lou Piniella (2010)
Joe Torre (2010)

Executives/Pioneers -
Billy Beane (active)
Bill James (active)

[Nerdlinger]

Wow, two new ballots! Thanks, guys. I'll update the totals soon. Richard, I'll probably hold off on adding yours until you get everybody in. No rush. It's just easier for me to tabulate that way.

[baltimorechop]

It looks like I kicked Puckett out, but got Keith Hernandez in!

I'm shocked that Bobby Grich doesn't collectivey have 75%, but i'll get him (and Rixey & Faber) really close to in. I'm biased toward reds, but i am surprised that Red Faber isn't thought a little higher of.

If anyone notices a multi-position player I may've overlooked, please tell me. I totally missed Dick Allen and Stan Musial because I did my hall of fame by position (as I was doing this I thought of others like Rose, Banks, Carew, Killebrew, King Kelly as I went, but probably forgot someone else important).

[Nerdlinger]

Updated again. Keith Hernandez is back in the Hall now.

Any more...?

[Bothrops Atrox]

It looks like I kicked Puckett out, but got Keith Hernandez in!

I'm shocked that Bobby Grich doesn't collectivey have 75%, but i'll get him (and Rixey & Faber) really close to in. I'm biased toward reds, but i am surprised that Red Faber isn't thought a little higher of.

.

Faber had two great years, one really good year and a whole lot of blah. No thanks. Rixey was Faber, but downgrading the two great years with two good years. Double no thanks.

[baltimorechop]

Faber had two great years, one really good year and a whole lot of blah. No thanks. Rixey was Faber, but downgrading the two great years with two good years. Double no thanks.

I will grant you only two superb year and a lot of compiling. (I come off as combatative a lot, but I'm trying to start a rousing argument here). I noticed that you put in Tommy Bridges (and you have posts where you reference WAR without being overly skeptical). I see Tommy Bridges with 126 ERA+ in over 2800 IP. Of course, Faber pitched far longer, but if you only look at until 1925 he has about 15 fewer IP than Bridges with a 125 ERA+. His WAR at this point in his career is 44.7 compared to bridges 48.1. The difference is, Faber's peak is far higher than Bridges (a 10 and 8 WAR season, where Bridges has just a 6 and a 5).

Now, you can definitely counter that Bridges was more often in the top 5 pitchers in his league, but never was he first or second. Faber was first one year, and second another. Then it comes down to how you value peak. I guess I'm making the argument that Faber did very nearly what Bridges did, but then added another 17 war and 1200+ IP at a 109 ERA+. I did let in a few pitchers like Bridges, but I usually was looking for them to be a little more dominant in exchange for their shorter careers.

[Bothrops Atrox]

I will grant you only two superb year and a lot of compiling. (I come off as combatative a lot, but I'm trying to start a rousing argument here). I noticed that you put in Tommy Bridges (and you have posts where you reference WAR without being overly skeptical). I see Tommy Bridges with 126 ERA+ in over 2800 IP. Of course, Faber pitched far longer, but if you only look at until 1925 he has about 15 fewer IP than Bridges with a 125 ERA+. His WAR at this point in his career is 44.7 compared to bridges 48.1. The difference is, Faber's peak is far higher than Bridges (a 10 and 8 WAR season, where Bridges has just a 6 and a 5).

Now, you can definitely counter that Bridges was more often in the top 5 pitchers in his league, but never was he first or second. Faber was first one year, and second another. Then it comes down to how you value peak. I guess I'm making the argument that Faber did very nearly what Bridges did, but then added another 17 war and 1200+ IP at a 109 ERA+. I did let in a few pitchers like Bridges, but I usually was looking for them to be a little more dominant in exchange for their shorter careers.

I no longer support Bridges. May have been an over-site the first time, as I never remember supporting him. I had to check my original list to see that he was really on there. They are both in the 80's or so all-time for me. Faber did have the bigger peak, but Bridges had a lot more quality secondary seasons and missed two seasons due to military service. Slight edge in league quality too. I think those things balance out the two big Faber years. Either way, you are right, they are pretty close. Still not sure how Bridges snuck on my list.