Can an owner be Forced to Sell???

[zahavasdad]

With the abysmal performance of the Pirates, 17 going on 18 losing seasons in a row.

That ownership is killing the franchise maybe for good. A whole generation of Pittsburgh residents have been born and grown up not even knowing what a winning season is and the losing is likely to continue.

And unlike other sorry cases for franchises Pittsburgh is a city of winners (Steelers and Penguins) further damaging the franchise unlike say Kansas City where the Chiefs are almost as sorry as the Royals.

Can these guys be removed , Even the Cubs while they might not make the World Series, do Win and do make the NLCS (and lose there)

Its a case It is better to have love and lost than not to love at all, The Pirates show no love

[Captain Cold Nose]

I believe Marge Schott was essentially forced to sell. If I'm not mistaken, it was learned her accountants were actively fudging the numbers, and the reality was she was not worth as much as she had claimed, thus making her not able to sustain running a team.

[RuthMayBond]

I believe Marge Schott was essentially forced to sell. If I'm not mistaken, it was learned her accountants were actively fudging the numbers, and the reality was she was not worth as much as she had claimed, thus making her not able to sustain running a team.

Except that

1) Somehow they won a championship, and
2) There was that little Hitler thing

[Ubiquitous]

Schott was ordered to sell her controlling interest in the team after the 1998 season. Her suspension from 1996 was up at the end of the 1998 season but did not want her back. It is true that she had been or was at the very least accused of falsifying records at her car dealership and she was forced to sell that dealership by GM. At the time MLB was looking into that and were going to use that as an excuse to keep on suspending her from baseball.

But the thing is MLB could not actually force her to sell. In the end she agreed to sell because she didn't want to fight baseball. She was behind the 8-ball because of the suspension but other than that MLB had nothing on her.

[zahavasdad]

Last I heard the Pirate owners were making money and could care less if they win or lose.

As much a disgrace marge schott was, She did put a competitive team on the field

Putting on a team to competes with the 1899 Cleveland Spiders for futitlity is not good for the game

[westsidegrounds]

William B Cox, who'd bought the Phillies early in 1943, was banned from organized baseball at the end of that same year for betting on his team. That forced him to sell the team. Only time it's ever happened, I think.

You can't ban an owner for being stupid or inept or short-sighted or greedy, though. If you could ...

[JaysExpos]

Last I heard the Pirate owners were making money and could care less if they win or lose.

Gotta love revenue sharing!

[zahavasdad]

Basically you could put a bunch of Class A ball players pay them minimum salary of $500,000 a year

Pay $13 Million in Salaries and make a killing

Even the NFL is trying to force teams to put on competitive teams and not sit their starters

The Pirate owners are not stupid or inept, they are businessmen and if the best business for your team is to LOSE, so be it

Baseball is a business and there is no rule I guess to force you to put on a competitive team

[Captain Cold Nose]

Aren't the Pirates under relatively new ownership?

[RuthMayBond]

Aren't the Pirates under relatively new ownership?

Relatively new, but they seem to be going backward. As a lot of Pirates fans might agree, the owner is nutting.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Relatively new, but they seem to be going backward. As a lot of Pirates fans might agree, the owner is nutting.

Ok, but you certainly can't blame them for what happened under previous ownership, such as stripping them of the team for 18 years of losing, most of which they had nothing to do with.

Financial viability seems to be what MLB is most concerned with in regards to ownership. That, and not betting on games ala Mr. Cox.

[zahavasdad]

Other than maybe Connie Mack, has an owner ever refused to put on a competitive team

(I will leave open to intepretation the reasons Connie Mack sold off his team) or the subsequent KC A's owners or Baltimore Oriole owners for becoming a farm team for the Yankees

[Captain Cold Nose]

Other than maybe Connie Mack, has an owner ever refused to put on a competitive team

(I will leave open to intepretation the reasons Connie Mack sold off his team) or the subsequent KC A's owners or Baltimore Oriole owners for becoming a farm team for the Yankees

I think Wayne Huizenga and the major salary dump he had following the 1997 WS victory could almost qualify. He made his money with his backup pro franchise (behind the Dolphins). Too bad for Florida they got the guys who killed off the Expos after Huizenga got rid of them.

[Ubiquitous]

Yes, too bad for Florida that they have won 2 WS championships in just over a decade of existence. I really feel for them.

[RuthMayBond]

Other than maybe Connie Mack, has an owner ever refused to put on a competitive team

(I will leave open to intepretation the reasons Connie Mack sold off his team) or the subsequent KC A's owners or Baltimore Oriole owners for becoming a farm team for the Yankees

Let me introduce you to the Cleveland Indians.
Just a brief span from 1957-1993
Also, the Phils with brief exceptions from 1902-1914, 1918-1948, and 1951-1973

[ian2813]

Let me introduce you to the Cleveland Indians.
Just a brief span from 1957-1993
Also, the Phils with brief exceptions from 1902-1914, 1918-1948, and 1951-1973

Do those represent refusals to win, or simply front office ineptitude? Don't forget the contract the Indians gave Wayne Garland during that time they were supposedly not trying to field a competitive team. It may have been stupid, but I doubt they would've done it if they hadn't been trying to win.

[zahavasdad]

Also, the Phils with brief exceptions from 1902-1914, 1918-1948, and 1951-1973


How many Hall of Famers played for the Phillies in those eras

Chuck Klein
Richie Ashburn
Steve Carlton
Robin Roberts
Jim Bunning
Grover Cleveland Alexander

They might have stunk, but they had some of baseball's best

How Many Hall of Famers will the Pirates have in the last 18 years who played more than a rookie season or 2 with them

[Ubiquitous]

That is apples and oranges. Player movement is totally different nowadays as compared to back then.

Jim Bunning was basically a Phillie for the only good stretch during RMB's awful stretch of 1951-1973.

Steve Carlton came over in 1972 and was part of the Phillies greatest run until their most recent run.

Pete Alexander was a Phillie from 1911 to 1917 and that was not an awful stretch of time for the Phillies.

The Phillies were only bad for Robin Roberts last handful of seasons with the Phillies before that they were respectable and even went to the World Series.

Ashburn played at the same time as Roberts but he didn't last as long so he spent even less time with a bad team than Roberts.

The only legit player on your list that played with a bad Phillies team is Chuck Klein.

The Pirates had Brian Giles, Jason Bay, Aramis Ramirez, and Jason Kendall.

[Rich the Giants fan]

I agree you can't punish the newer ownership because of the sins of past owners. The new Pirate owners must be given a chance, even though they haven't been impressive so far.

Now if you want to make someone sell, make it be David Glass!! Save the Royals!!

http://www.baseballevolution.com/richard/royals.html

[KCGHOST]

Pretty timely topic. ESPN was reporting last night that MLB is thinking about taking control of the Texas Rangers to force the current owners (who want to sellout) to consummate the deal with the group headed by Nolan Ryan.

[abolishthedh]

I agree you can't punish the newer ownership because of the sins of past owners. The new Pirate owners must be given a chance, even though they haven't been impressive so far.

Now if you want to make someone sell, make it be David Glass!! Save the Royals!!

http://www.baseballevolution.com/richard/royals.html

Agreed. Glass bought the Royals on the cheap, after the charity nonprofit group which ran the team in the post-Kauffman years had trouble finding a new owner. It is given that a charitable organization cannot pay the ridiculous salaries of the modern era, so the 1990s Royals could not compete. Glass, IMHO, knew this. He stood by, waited for the franchise value to sink to an affordable level as perceived by himself, and then bought the team without much difficulty.

It would take some old fashioned journalism, but if this view of mine could be substantiated with financial facts, then maybe MLB could act.

And then again, even then they may not.

[JaysExpos]

Speaking of the Royals...

http://uponfurtherreview.kansascity.com/?q=node/2145

[Imapotato]

Its all cyclical, The Phillies had a HUGE span of futility, but 2 WS appearances later, they are king of the town.

Pittsburgh is trying the way thewy think will work, by developing the farm system and grabbing castoffs from other teams. Milledge, Jones, etc.
Can't help it if a player says they want out or wants the big payday like Bay.

The Royals actually have helped Greinke off the field as well as trying to get better defense behind him and have good players coming up the pike. They grabbed decent players in Ankiel and Posedenik to try and make some noise.


These two teams can't help it if A Zach Duke, Neil Walker or Alex Gordon can't live up to expectations. In fact when their prospects bomb its even more evident because they cannot go and grab a free agent as readily as the big clubs.

[RuthMayBond]

The Royals actually have helped Greinke off the field as well as trying to get better defense behind him and have good players coming up the pike. They grabbed decent players in Posedenik

Podsednik, now mostly a corner OF, who has not had a full season OPS+ over 98 (and only one over 86) since 2003.

[ol' aches and pains]

Podsednik, now mostly a corner OF, who has not had a full season OPS+ over 98 (and only one over 86) since 2003.

On the Royals, that's a "decent" player. The White Sox let Podsednik go, and replaced him with Juan Pierre, for what it's worth.