1923 Yankee Stadium 3D Renderings

[mjrbaseball]

Also from the NYC Taxicab Fact Book (page 23):

Until 1954, New York City required that taxicabs seat five passengers behind the driver and have a trunk-mounted luggage rack. Also required was a grill in the trunk to prevent carriage of dead bodies. Only Checker, Desoto and Packard had models that fulfilled the “jumbo” vehicle requirements. New York City allowed smaller vehicles in 1954, eventually leading to the demise of large vehicles.

(Lots of interesting and bizarre statistics in that publication!)

[SultanOfWhat]

Figured I would post this to elicit any info someone might have.

I just noticed that the YS letters over the main gate in 1923 were smaller than those later hung over gates 2 (1928) and 6 (1937). Image attached to show this.

The auctions for the letters from the later gates state that they were 4 feet high.

I believe that the 1923 letters were about 3 feet high. I don't have any blue print that shows the 1923 letter height, or any information on surviving 1923 copper letters. Any info?


Image is 1920 X 1080






BTW, a Lelands auction for the letter "U" claimed to be for a letter hung in 1923, but as it's 4 feet tall, I think they were mistaken.



http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...Yankee-Stadium



This "S" is from one of the later gates. It looks to be 4 feet tall:





Another auction for a YS letter. Once again, I think they are wrong on the 1923 part (sold for $5,453):

[SultanOfWhat]

Here's a direct comparison between the main gate in 1923 on the left and gate 6 in 1960 on the right. It clearly shows that the 1923 letters were smaller. Measuring the OD 1923 letters versus the height of the lower wall yields a letter height of 3 feet.


Image size 1898 X 1075

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Trying to address a number of things tonight.



These next couple of images show how a westering sun can dramatically alter the mood and look of the Stadium:

You "Golden Hour" affecionado you! Sweet photos.

[SultanOfWhat]

You "Golden Hour" affecionado you! Sweet photos.

That phrase sounds like something out of the Real Men of Genius ads for Bud Light!


Here are some interesting odds and ends.


First up is a very rare YS OD 1923-related item. For a twist, it was once owned by someone who has been all over the airwaves recently.

This is a vintage 1923 Yankee Stadium Opening Game Press Pin, made by Dieges & Clust. This pin was given to members of the press on April 18, 1923. One of only a handful known to still exist. Press pins in general made in the 1920s sell between $375. - $4,000. This pin is from the Charlie Sheen Collection, and was auctioned off for $5,287. This pin measures 3/4" and was made to wear on the lapel. The Back of the pin is pictured in the second pic below. In January 2010 a 1923 Yankee Stadium opening day press pin achieved a record price of $14,882 at SCP Auctions.






We knew about the 6'' copper baseballs atop the flag poles, but at some point footballs were apparently added as well:




This suggests we were correct in choosing yellow for the central disc in the Edison ad:




How a woodworking artist sees OD 1923:








Another artist's vision, from someone I could only identify as "Clementine":

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

You know what that phrase means in photographic terms, right?

[JOVE23]

Also required was a grill in the trunk to prevent carriage of dead bodies.

What the...?

[Mario Mendoza...HOF Lock]

Here's a direct comparison between the main gate in 1923 on the left and gate 6 in 1960 on the right. It clearly shows that the 1923 letters were smaller. Measuring the OD 1923 letters versus the height of the lower wall yields a letter height of 3 feet.


Image size 1898 X 1075

Possibly the 1923 photo on the left was slightly widened horozontally, for whatever reason. The windows appear wider on that one. If that were the case, the letters would likely appear a little shorter as well. Or else maybe an illusion created by the lens, differing distance etc. Just speculating....they very well could be different sized letters.

[the stadium guy]

The arched windows and rectangular louvers ARE actually slightly wider in the original 1923 Gate 4 than they are in Gate 2 and Gate 6. There are differences in the additions than in the original construction. Why, I don't know. bk...you may want to take note of this, and adjust accordingly.

Brad

[SultanOfWhat]

Sent an e-mail off to bk about a discrepancy in the window muntins in the windows below the arched windows (arrows in attached image).


Image size 1435 X 361




It also looks like the upper rectangular windows in the image above are currently too tall in the 3D version. I'll try to do an overall assessment of the 1923 main gate in the reference photo versus the 3D version. That will also help to determine the window width issue.


BTW, I'm still confident that the YS letters were smaller in the 1923 main gate than in the gates added in 1928 and 1937. Will post details later.

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

The arched windows and rectangular louvers ARE actually slightly wider in the original 1923 Gate 4 than they are in Gate 2 and Gate 6. There are differences in the additions than in the original construction. Why, I don't know. bk...you may want to take note of this, and adjust accordingly.

Brad

Construction codes change constantly. Also, "better" ideas surface and those improvements are applied to a building add-on that don't apply to the original part. Titanic and Britannic each improved upon Olympic and each other -though Titanic's improvements had little to do with safety. There are definite differences in the ext appearances of all three ships accordingly.

[bkhockey3]

Thanks guys----will await final word on the gate 4 wall issues. Sultan sent me an image and I liked the green color of the railings in it, so I again changed all the dark greens on the interior to a more muted color. Still working on better landscaping. Also, frieze color browner.

[bkhockey3]

Oops, middle image was CMYK.

[SultanOfWhat]

This is a pic from 1945. A good look at some seat numbers. Look very similar to the blurry ones in the 1925 pic (not shown here). Pics are larger, etc:

[SultanOfWhat]

There are many good YS pics on the NYPL website, but a brutally antiquated interface made them of limited use. The viewer was set to a paltry 420 X 400 pixels, but changing the values to 1000 X 800 allows for some useful images.

First are a few views of YS from across the river. All these pics are larger than they appear here, etc. First two are from 1924, and the third is from 1941. In the first pic, we can see why F.C. Lane and others emphasized how prominent the Stadium was in its location when it first opened (before other tall buildings were later constructed around it):




We've seen this image before, but this larger version (actual size is 1913 X 892) offers more detail:




The view has changed by 1941:




There were also many nice pics of the surrounding neighborhood on the website. I was hoping to find an image of the Fleischmann Lab, as the following photo (from 1923)...




Looked different than the architectural drawing, seen below:




Well, searching the NYPL website by inputting all the street names and numbers around Yankee Stadium paid off, big time:



This is a pic of the Fleischmann Lab building in what appears to be the late 1920s. BTW, neither the smokestack nor the apartment building were there in 1923.


We can see that the digital version was made very close to the architectural drawing.



Not sure if bk wants to re-do it, but if so, more views are available.


This next image was taken in 1926 from the roof of the Hotel Concourse Plaza. It shows the side of the Fleischmann Lab, and even offers a view of one of the "haunted houses" (on the right). BTW, I found an excellent, sunlit front view of the same house, as well. Yankee Stadium is off-camera to the right in this image:



Close-up of the side of the Fleischmann Lab. That small building in the back looks like it is under construction in the 1926 image:




The July 26, 1929 pic is there on the NYPL website, and here is a (spliced) image of the scoreboard:




Note the text on the bottom right regarding the next game. The version for OD 1923 should read:

TO-MORROW 3 PM N.Y. vs. BOST

[NYFan1stYankFan2nd]

Oops, middle image was CMYK.

LOL! Yeah, in 4312 that middle image looks like factory defaults on a TV set. This one 4313 is a stunner!

[bkhockey3]

Hey all!!!! Took a few days off from work and spent an extended weekend with my daughter---spent a day exploring the Gettysburg battlefield--it was amazing! Am currently addressing some gate 4 issues ( the rollups were not all the same width and the window pane configurations above the rollups was off). Love those Fleischmann pics---since the building is prominent in some views, gonna have to correct it.

[J.E.Fullerton]

BK,
I noticed a few points about the electric lines, which may very well have been covered before, so apologies if that's the case.
Your most recent view down the first base side facade has some very clean and uniform poles:

But when we look at this 1923 photo the poles are varied and the one closest to the entrance is noticeably crooked.

That one and the next after it have 4 crossbars on the pole, with some sort of bulky box next to the lower two bars, though the spacing on the first pole looks closer than on the second pole. The third pole only has one crossbars, instead of four. And significantly the first pole seems to be where the service entry cable for the stadium runs from, leading down to the pilaster just past the last gate.
So it could be something more like this:

Also the Catenary curve of the lines going from the first pole to the one off camera on the other side of Doughty Street look strange, like they're being raised up by an invisible hand instead of hanging freely. I suspect there were more than just four cables as well; presumably those lower sets of crossbars were there for a reason.

But then again, those extra crossbars may have been removed by OD if they and the boxes mounted next to them were just to power construction equipment? This view (which may be later in 1923?) shows only the two crossbars per pole and the lower boxes gone.

Were there extra ticket kiosks temporarily stored just inside the moat in the earlier photo which are now gone? Also it appears that there's another cable leading across 157th Street to the parking lot building from that first pole, if I'm reading it correctly....I'm not sure I am though. In the second photo, it looks like the first pole is actually across Doughty Street, in which case the first two poles next to the Stadium may truly have still had their original four crossbars, but they're just off camera in the second photo. If so, it's a confusing coincidence that the one across Doughty is also a leaner.

[The Monument]

Great work so far and terrific research by all. My feeling is that the model is getting a little cluttered. The autos are fine but I would eliminate the poles and power lines.

[bkhockey3]

JE----made an error, that's why the wires were kinda curvy in some renderings--have fixed that--great catch on that wwire leading to stadium---will angle that one pole and wait to see if there's evidence the extra horizontals were there on OD. Been busy redoing Fleischmann Laboratory.

[bkhockey3]

See a small silvery box and not sure what these two large shapes are.

[SultanOfWhat]

The crooked pole brings up an interesting question on a project like this. I had noticed that pole (as I think bk had), but I didn't stress replicating it because I thought it would be distracting to the viewer. So the questions arises: is it better to re-create the Stadium exactly as it was, imperfections and all, or to consider maintaining symmetry and uniformity in certain matters?

For instance, in the image below, we not only see the crooked pole, but a light-shaded discoloration on the top of the lower wall to the right of the tattered banner. Should that be represented in the model?




Here is another detail that shows imperfection. The eagle medallion on the left side of the main gate was apparently misplaced at first, and them had to be adjusted (image below). Should this detail be replicated?




Another such issue: the pole on the left in the image below has a noticeable curve to it. Should that be indicated in the model?:




Good catch, JEF, on the different cross-beams on the poles. Here is a view of the poles from the RF corner:




Also a good point on how the lines don't look like they are hanging under the influence of gravity. They are also a bit too thick at present. And if you look at the pics in this post, there seem to be "master" wires that are thicker than others (such as the wire crossing 157th street in the White Construction brochure pic).


Lastly on this issue, I think the poles should be in the model, as they represent an important part of the experience of being outside Yankee Stadium on OD 1923. bk will decide how far to go in replicating them based on the images we have, and, of course, he can remove them if he wants to create a render without them. But whatever level of detail is pursued, we need to make the proportions as close to the original as possible, so such elements don't look to bulky or distracting. That goes for the thickness of the line running to the Stadium wall, as well.


Another reason to include the poles is as a nod to how the Stadium and its surroundings changed over time. In this pic below, for instance, all the poles have been removed:




The new Fleischmann looks great. I will post some more images and comments in a bit.


BTW the image in JEF's post above with the PARKING SPACE sign is from 1925.

[SultanOfWhat]

Fleischmann comparison pics and other views follow. All pics are larger than they appear here, etc...


We can see that the 3D version is too high in proportion to its width. After making measurements, it looks like the actual structure was about 3:1 ratio of width:height (the height does not include the roof, but just the "rectangle" of the structure if viewed straight-on from the front. Making the height of that rectangle 32 feet and the width 96 feet, with a doorway of 8 feet tall would approximate the reference photo quite well. [Note: in the first pic below, the Fleischmann Lab has been flipped horizontally to match the orientation of the render]







In the comparison pic at the top, it look like the windows and the doorway are too tall proportionally. The space below the cornice above the doorway is also a bit too tall. That cornice should be double, with the bottom one smaller.

Also in the comparison pic at top, note that the muntins between the individual panes of glass are significantly thinner in the reference photo, with the exception of the 4 large muntins in each of the large windows. There are 3 large windows in the reference photo at top, and probably 6 in the entire structure.

Where there is white trim in the 3D render, there seems to be just limestone in the reference photo.


Large image without lines:




Other views:














In the next to last pic above, we see a streetlamp of the same type outside the LF bleachers in 1923. More on that in the next post.

[SultanOfWhat]

The Fleischmann streetlamp, seen at the left side of the front (it looks to be identical to the streetlamp outside the LF bleachers in a construction photo from 1923):






Current digital version:




Some elements of the digital version can be improved by using this close-up of a similar streetlamp from a 1926 pic. The red cross-outs indicate areas not to be copied. Basically, the back "horn" should be solid, the beginning of the main suspension arm should be solid, there should be the two connection points in the top arm, and the top finial might be improved:

[SultanOfWhat]

Found some other interesting pics, but only have time to post the main images (not big versions or zooms).


First, here is the haunted house in front of the Fleischmann Lab and one block north (159th street and Walton Ave), seen in 1928:




There it is on the right in this pic:




Closer:







Here is a nice view (from 1926) up 161st street towards the Hotel. There have been buildings added since 1923, and the signs might be different, but it's a good look at the general view:




Here is a view of the subway station, from 1937: