Gone in 5 years?

[PF#9]

Look at the attendance figures. Only the home opener has got more than 20,000 attendees this year. We lost 97 games last year - 2 years after coming within one game of the World Series. We are still not doing good on the field either.

Now it's time to face the facts. If the Indians don't want to actually buy up talent, they are probably going to be moving within the next five years. So unless the Indians actually build and play like a team, we are going to be rooting for the Reds, Pirates, and Tigers come 2015. Why? Because, the Indians will have moved on to greener pastures. Several cities in particular have been dying for a MLB team. San Juan; Monterrey, Mexico; Portland, Oregon; New Jersey; Northern Virginia; and Norfolk, Virginia are some prospective locations.

So, Cleveland, do you want to lose another sports team to relocation? Then buck up and get the Indians to sign good players. And believe me, I'm still a fan. I want them to stay as much as anyone else here. But that's the sad reality.

[KCGHOST]

I think you are a little overwrought here. Yes, the Tribe is in a down cycle, but they have show the ability to come back from these downturns. As for the cities you names, San Juan does not have a major league stadium or an owners group, Monterrey has no stadium and the travel would be brutal, New Jersey in in the Yanks-Mets territorial area, both VA locations would have to deal with being in either the Nats or O's territorial area, and Portland doesn't have a stadium.

Also check you current lease agreement between the stadium authority and the Tribe. Assuming it follows what most locations have down you should have a number of years before it expires. And no team is going to break a lease because the punitive damages they would have to pay far outweigh the benefit.

[PF#9]

The cities I mentioned were candidates for being the new home of what was once the Montreal Expos, BTW.

[Richard]

It probably has more to do with the poor economic conditions in addition to ownership. They've been in Cleveland for over one hundred, they ain't going anywhere.

[PF#9]

What else could help our team get better is a nickname change. A lot of the most talented players are hesitant to come to Cleveland because the nickname "Indians" could be considered politically incorrect. A nickname change also helped Tampa Bay become respectable. So I'm all for it. I think "Rockstars" could be a good nickname considering Cleveland is the birthplace of rock music.

[Eyeshade]

"A lot of the most talented players are hesitant to come to Cleveland because the nickname "Indians" could be considered politically incorrect. "

Who?...No wait, he's on first. Seriously though, do you really think that this means anything other than pacifying Native-American rights groups and the United Church of Christ?

[EdTarbusz]

The only way that the Indians will win on a consistent basis is with young talent like they did from 1994-1999. Since the dawn of free agency how many big name free agents during the height of their careers have the Indians been able to sign? I can think of three: Wayne Garland, Jack McDowell and Roberto Alomar. I think it is more to do with money and location rather than nicknames and logos that star players do not want to come to Cleveland.

[RuthMayBond]

Look at the attendance figures. Only the home opener has got more than 20,000 attendees this year. We lost 97 games last year - 2 years after coming within one game of the World Series. We are still not doing good on the field either.

Now it's time to face the facts. If the Indians don't want to actually buy up talent, they are probably going to be moving within the next five years.

Oh, you mean 1960 - 1993 wasn't bad enough?

[Captain Cold Nose]

What else could help our team get better is a nickname change. A lot of the most talented players are hesitant to come to Cleveland because the nickname "Indians" could be considered politically incorrect. A nickname change also helped Tampa Bay become respectable. So I'm all for it. I think "Rockstars" could be a good nickname considering Cleveland is the birthplace of rock music.

Cleveland is the birthplace of the name "rock and roll" in regards to the music. Not the music itself.

Has anyone actually gone on record as stating they won't play for the Indians because of the politically incorrect name? Conjecture is never a reason to do something, and that's pretty much all you have for this one.

[EmergencyCatcher]

Maybe once the front office actually comes up with a plan on how to form a winner, people will care again. Give the fans a reason to come to the ballpark, and they will. No one will fork out nearly $20 on tickets alone to sit in the lower deck and watch a sub-.500 team that is showing very little for the present, only a past loaded with heartbreak, and a possible future that is still a few years off in the likes of Santana and Chisenhall.

You have an owner who won't pony up the money for the right players. I know, there's no budget left thanks to the ungodly sums paid out to Hafner, Sizemore, and Westbrook. So I can understand having to trade Sabathia and Lee because the money isn't there. But at the same time, geez, loosen up the wallet a bit, willya?

And to make it worse, you have a GM who trades them off for a handful of magic beans. Nice. There is no reason they should have shipped out Cliff Lee in exchange for the junk they pulled in. No reason. Period.

That being said, the Indians are going nowhere for plenty of reasons already listed in this thread. You want to worry about a team leaving Cleveland? Just look across the street if a certain #23 doesn't re-up.

[Eyeshade]

You have an owner who won't pony up the money for the right players. I know, there's no budget left thanks to the ungodly sums paid out to Hafner, Sizemore, and Westbrook. So I can understand having to trade Sabathia and Lee because the money isn't there. But at the same time, geez, loosen up the wallet a bit, willya?...

That being said, the Indians are going nowhere for plenty of reasons already listed in this thread. You want to worry about a team leaving Cleveland? Just look across the street if a certain #23 doesn't re-up.

Here's an odd couple- Lebron going to NY and working for the "other" Dolan as a Knick. I hope he stays but, if he goes, it can only be good for the Tribe money-wise if the Cavs fall hard.

[gman5431]

The Tribe is definately down right now, on the field - they were forced to trade CC and Lee, Carmona fell apart (but appears on his way back), Sizemore and Hafner are shadows of their formerselves, and at the gate - from the record attendance streak to the worst drawing team in the majors, but they arent going anywhere. They have a beautiful ballpark that is only a decade and half old and they can obviously draw because they have before. The team will come around.

G Man

[RuthMayBond]

they can obviously draw because they have before. The team will come around.

G Man

Only if they get the horses

[GoTribe]

Man, this thread is depressing to read. They can recover. I know they can.

But this thing about "Indians" not being politically correct got me thinking. As a fan.
So, I like the team, and I would still like them if theychanged into any corny name. I'd find it embarrassing, but I'd stick to them. As for "Indians", well the name has been around for a long time. Long before political correctness was a matter the way it is today. It's not doing any harm. What would cause me to abandon a team as a fan would be, if the team in a way would ACT politically incorrect. In that sense I presume the name was not chosen in order to be disrespectful to native american people.

[EmergencyCatcher]

With all the uproar from "American Indian Activists" over the Indians, Braves, Redskins, Seminoles, Illini, etc., where are the Scandinavian Activists clamoring to change the Minnesota Vikings? Or the Irish Activists to stop the Boston Celtics and Notre Dame Fighting Irish?

It's PC influenced guilt. And besides, studies have been done that most American Indians don't mind the names. They have bigger issues in their communities to deal with than to worry about what sports teams are named.

[EdTarbusz]

It's PC influenced guilt. .

Not really. Protesting the name Cleveland Indians name predates political correctness by at least a decade. I can remember seeing people protesting the name Indians outside Cleveland Stadium in the mid 70s. Political Correctness as we know it today didn't come around until approximately 1990.

[EmergencyCatcher]

Political correctness has been around much longer. It's just matter of to what degree and under what euphemism.

[EdTarbusz]

Political correctness has been around much longer. It's just matter of to what degree and under what euphemism.

I don't agree. It wasn't around when I was growing up. It's a fairly recent development that I think began with whatever generation came after the Baby Boomers.

[gman5431]

I think we should expand and have two new teams - the Crackers and the Flying Whiteys.

G Man

[dominik]

I don't agree. It wasn't around when I was growing up. It's a fairly recent development that I think began with whatever generation came after the Baby Boomers.

That's not true. basically the political correctness thing started with the left winged student movement of 68 although the term came up in the 90s. but those movement along with the feminist movement was fighting for non discriminating language concerning women, minories and races(for ex. african american instead of negro or colored).

[Captain Cold Nose]

So, does anybody else think the Indians might move in five years or less?

[dominik]

So, does anybody else think the Indians might move in five years or less?

no way. the pirates absolutely suck(owner has no ambition and sells every good player) and haven't won for 17 years and they don't move.

[hartman74]

The Cleveland Indians are one of the Bedrock teams of the American League.
They have been around for nearly 110 years in Cleveland.
They have survived multiple ownerships and 10 cent Beer Night.
It has survived fan apathy for decades. They even made a movie about it called "Major League"

Baseball will not allow it to happen.
The Indians are staying put in Cleveland.

[Captain Cold Nose]

no way. the pirates absolutely suck(owner has no ambition and sells every good player) and haven't won for 17 years and they don't move.

They have fairly new ownership but I certainly would say it's worse for Pittsburgh than it is for Cleveland.

I always find it interesting when a poster puts out a premise like this and really doesn't stick around to defend it.

[dominik]

They have fairly new ownership but I certainly would say it's worse for Pittsburgh than it is for Cleveland.

I always find it interesting when a poster puts out a premise like this and really doesn't stick around to defend it.

Are you talking to me?
I know that not every team is the yanks and I will always support young teams trying to support even if they struggle. For ex. I like the nats efoort even if they are not likely to compete in the next years.

But I ill not hold bck criticism when a team tries to be as cheap as possible while cashing in revenues. If a team is run a 40 millions and sells every good player for 10 years I will hardly have respect for them.