Say it ain't so, santana! :o

[Shea Knight]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...last_year.html

What do you guys make of that?

It sounds an awful lot like maybe this person's not telling the whole truth (I'm no crime detective, but if he "ejaculated on her upper thigh," wouldn't this be an open-and-shut case? I mean, a DNA test and she'd have him nailed... a bit disgusting, maybe, to save some of that stuff, but still all the things she said he did- and not enough proof to even press charges, when she said he was THAT physical?)

Stilll... I REALLY liked Johan... I don't want to believe it's true, but logic must prevail.

So, logically speaking- what do you all think? :/

[Paulypal]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ba...last_year.html

What do you guys make of that?

It sounds an awful lot like maybe this person's not telling the whole truth (I'm no crime detective, but if he "ejaculated on her upper thigh," wouldn't this be an open-and-shut case? I mean, a DNA test and she'd have him nailed... a bit disgusting, maybe, to save some of that stuff, but still all the things she said he did- and not enough proof to even press charges, when she said he was THAT physical?)

Stilll... I REALLY liked Johan... I don't want to believe it's true, but logic must prevail.

So, logically speaking- what do you all think? :/

Well it seems something happened on the golf course, and nobody seems to be disputing that. The police apparently do have the clothes in question. Its a matter of was it consensual or not. What is a bit odd is that Santana "brutally raped" this girl - when it was over, she sat by the tennis courts and he played tennis.

Nothing like a few sets of tennis after a good session of rape, especially while the victim watches. Who knows what really happened but it sounds fishy to me.

[Shea Knight]

Well, what do you think of Johan now...?

I mean, he was one of our BEACONS, you know, a family man and did charity work and smiling and a leader...seemed like such a great guy the Mets had as their ace...

Do we have another Doc Gooden, or does Johan stay above that, both in the legal and public opinion (YOUR opinion, Mets fans?)

[Paulypal]

Well, what do you think of Johan now...?

I mean, he was one of our BEACONS, you know, a family man and did charity work and smiling and a leader...seemed like such a great guy the Mets had as their ace...

Do we have another Doc Gooden, or does Johan stay above that, both in the legal and public opinion (YOUR opinion, Mets fans?)

Key word "SEEMED".

Fans have no clue as to how these guys really are. Thats why I dont read about personal stuff because its all BS! For years the media would have had you believe Eddie Murray was the anti-Christ because he wouldnt speak to them. The media portrays an image of players that they want you to have. I watch the games and look at the boxscores. Anything other than that is someone elses opinion. A boxscore doesnt have an opinion - its facts. I dont think Johan was a good guy or a bad guy off the field, and honestly I dont care which one he is or was. If he raped her then he should get the electric chair. If he didnt then he should pitch when his next turn comes around. I dont think he raped because of the story, but not because I think he is a "nice guy" because I get to see him on TV and he plays for the Mets.

You thinking any of these guys are great guys or "beacons" in my opinion is really silly. You dont have the first clue as to how these guys are off the field. They smile they have a charity - tax write off- blah blah blah.

Do we have a Doc Gooden? No..Gooden never was accused of rape. Right now IF Yohan did rape anyone...then he is 100x worse than Gooden in my book.

Stop falling in love with players with Mets across it..or any other team...these guys are no better or worse than you or your neighbor. Some are good...some just suck, and we have no clue which ones are which.

[Shea Knight]

First, when I say "beacon," I think there IS some truth to that; I'm not saying these guys are like MLKs and Mother Teresas here...but they ARE role models to kids...and 24 hours ago, Johan was a role model for millions- and a good one, it seemed.

Yes, SEEMED, but still- you don't care about the CHARACTER of the folks that play on the team? I mean, say, hypothetically, Ty Cobb magically came back to life, in his prime and totally suited to this era of baseball, and wanted to play tomorrow- would you take him? He's GREAT, Original 5 Inductee... but he's also one of the nastiest figures in the game's history, and good luck geting him to play with any blacks, hispanics, jews, asians... and on and on...

Character DOES matter is all I'm saying...

Also: "Gooden was accused along with two other teammates with rape in 1991; however, charges were never pressed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_...Legal_troubles

Granted Wikipedia's not exactly the most fool-proof site...but I doubt someone would really go to the trouble of writing a falsehood on their about Doc Gooden...plus, it WOULD fit the whole tone of his life at that time, the spiral and drugs and all...two teammates, one maybe Strawberry, who has been charged with assualt/battery before, I think...

I'm not saying they did or didn't...just that it should matter SOMEWHAT...

And I'd prefer a Sandy Koufax to a John Rocker- and for more reasons than Sandy's super arm (and both of us being Jews...)

[Shea Knight]

I don't think he did it, at least not THAT much...sounds like he had an affair/one-night/day stand with someone, and she maybe wants money, so maybe he's not exactly faithful to his wife, but still...

And on a side note- electric chair? I'm NOT saying rape isn't a terrible crime, IT IS...I just have never seen the practical use of the death penalty in any situation save wartime; I mean, why not put those guys to WORK, HARD LABOR, then you get either less murderers/rapists who do it for the fame and lifestyle of death row, or else at least a roup of people you can work hard to churn out a LOT of tools or engines or SOMETHING that will generate the public that's REALLY hard labor...

But now I'm getting philosophical and into left field, so I digress, trotting back to behind the plate...

[theAmazingMet]

I wish they had a smiley holding up the BS Flag, because it seems appropriate here. Player X has consensual sex with floozy Y. Floozy Y is treated with less than dignified lady respect (shocking given the circumstances) by Player X. Floozy Y makes baseless allegation of rape which must be entertained by the police. Police investigate and find no evidence that Player X raped Floozy Y. Floozy Y runs to the press for her 5 minutes, and/or media decides to be turd-stirrers in an effort to sell papers and unearths story. Seen this a hundred times, and frankly it has gotten very old. Unless there is an indictment this is a non-issue. Baseless allegations can be made about anyone, at any time, and I dont convict on allegations.

[Paulypal]

First, when I say "beacon," I think there IS some truth to that; I'm not saying these guys are like MLKs and Mother Teresas here...but they ARE role models to kids...and 24 hours ago, Johan was a role model for millions- and a good one, it seemed.

Yes, SEEMED, but still- you don't care about the CHARACTER of the folks that play on the team? I mean, say, hypothetically, Ty Cobb magically came back to life, in his prime and totally suited to this era of baseball, and wanted to play tomorrow- would you take him? He's GREAT, Original 5 Inductee... but he's also one of the nastiest figures in the game's history, and good luck geting him to play with any blacks, hispanics, jews, asians... and on and on...

Character DOES matter is all I'm saying...

Also: "Gooden was accused along with two other teammates with rape in 1991; however, charges were never pressed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_...Legal_troubles

Granted Wikipedia's not exactly the most fool-proof site...but I doubt someone would really go to the trouble of writing a falsehood on their about Doc Gooden...plus, it WOULD fit the whole tone of his life at that time, the spiral and drugs and all...two teammates, one maybe Strawberry, who has been charged with assualt/battery before, I think...

I'm not saying they did or didn't...just that it should matter SOMEWHAT...

And I'd prefer a Sandy Koufax to a John Rocker- and for more reasons than Sandy's super arm (and both of us being Jews...)

So you want players with character? Me too. Which ones are they? I dont think we really know. Yohan at least had a fling while married. Does his character take a hit? So that isnt the player we want I guess. My point is that ball players shouldnt be held to a higher standard than you and I. In fact I bet the infidelity rate is much higher in pro athletes. They are on the road half the time, they have tons of cash, and they have Floozy Y (much hotter than the Floozy X version) available to them. Human nature kicks in. Most of us dont have that situation in front of us on a daily basis.

I dont consider any player in any sport a "beacon" no matter how he is portrayed. Nor do I consider any athlete a role model for kids. I think kids should aspire to play like their favorite athlete but not want to be like him personally. I am lucky enough to have grown up with two beacons in my house, and two role models. I didnt need to look anywhere else. Up until 6 months ago Tiger Woods was a role model. Then you find out he is keeping the latex industry alive on his own.

The funny thing about you mentioning Ty Cobb is that in my last post - I typed I dont care if the Mets field 8 Ty Cobbs. I deleted it. I am not there to judge who is a bad guy or a good guy because all of my information comes from reporters who are giving me their spin. My example of Eddie Murray was dead on. Steve Carlton is another one.

As far as the electric chair - If you destroy someone elses life, take someone elses life or hurt a kid you get zapped. Just my opinion. As far as putting them to work --thats fine have them work in your neighborhood let me know how that works out for you. I too would like to put them to work. Their job would be to see if the electric chair is still working, and they have to sit their until it works properly. Not much in the way of pay, and your 401k is probably not going to get vested but its a job.

Enough of that -- back to baseball.

[Gary Dunaier]

Also: "Gooden was accused along with two other teammates with rape in 1991; however, charges were never pressed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_...Legal_troubles

Granted Wikipedia's not exactly the most fool-proof site...but I doubt someone would really go to the trouble of writing a falsehood on their about Doc Gooden...plus, it WOULD fit the whole tone of his life at that time, the spiral and drugs and all...two teammates, one maybe Strawberry, who has been charged with assualt/battery before, I think...

The allegations against Gooden were real. From Baseball Library.com:

Apr 9, 1992 - Prosecutors drop rape charges against Mets P Dwight Gooden and OF Vince Coleman and Daryl Boston. On March 3‚ a 31-year-old woman had accused the players of raping her on March 30‚ 1991.

[NJMetfan4life]

Also: "Gooden was accused along with two other teammates with rape in 1991; however, charges were never pressed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwight_...Legal_troubles

Granted Wikipedia's not exactly the most fool-proof site...but I doubt someone would really go to the trouble of writing a falsehood on their about Doc Gooden...plus, it WOULD fit the whole tone of his life at that time, the spiral and drugs and all...two teammates, one maybe Strawberry, who has been charged with assualt/battery before, I think..

I do recall hearing about Kevin Mitchell "getting high, breaking into his girlfriends apartment, and beheading her cat" also.

[Shea Knight]

I wish they had a smiley holding up the BS Flag, because it seems appropriate here. Player X has consensual sex with floozy Y. Floozy Y is treated with less than dignified lady respect (shocking given the circumstances) by Player X. Floozy Y makes baseless allegation of rape which must be entertained by the police. Police investigate and find no evidence that Player X raped Floozy Y. Floozy Y runs to the press for her 5 minutes, and/or media decides to be turd-stirrers in an effort to sell papers and unearths story. Seen this a hundred times, and frankly it has gotten very old. Unless there is an indictment this is a non-issue. Baseless allegations can be made about anyone, at any time, and I dont convict on allegations.

I'm inclined to agree, it's just too illogical the whole situation...that the DNA would nail him and she doesn't have any with all that contact and fluid supposedly involved...the fact there's no physical evidence or clothing evidence...she sat and watched him play tennis afterwards (???)...so yeah, I'm inclined think he didn't rape her and she's just making trouble; granted, Johan's not totally innocent here, he DID cheat on his wife and kids...but it doesn't sound like he did anything criminal, just a sleazy, bad choice, and we're all entitled to a bad choice, a mistake now and again, eh? (Though I've never been married or HAVE HAD a girl at 19, so I don't know, maybe one oof you married folks there with a wife would have a different view.)

[Shea Knight]

[QUOTE=Paulypal;1755037]Nor do I consider any athlete a role model for kids. I think kids should aspire to play like their favorite athlete but not want to be like him personally. I
As far as the electric chair - If you destroy someone elses life, take someone elses life or hurt a kid you get zapped. Just my opinion. As far as putting them to work --thats fine have them work in your neighborhood let me know how that works out for you. I too would like to put them to work. Their job would be to see if the electric chair is still working, and they have to sit their until it works properly. Not much in the way of pay, and your 401k is probably not going to get vested but its a job.QUOTE]

Well, I agree, atheletes certainly shouldn't be used as role models, at least not as much as they are and placed on as high a pedestal by some parents/kids than they are...they CAN be role models, and even good ones, but yeah, cops and doctors and firemen and soldiers and intellectuals (at least a little bit, it'd be nice if kids cared more about intellectual heroes, curing cancer and thinking and all that.)
As for the Chair, I didn't mean in the neighboorhood, I meant have them work in the prison yard, surrounded by steel and concrete and barbed wire, all that in a prison...it's hard to believe we have so many officers and guards and arms in the US, but we don't have enough to watch these guys and make sure they don't

[Shea Knight]

...escape, so they can churn out heavy-duty labor for the general good.

[NJMetfan4life]

In my opinion, she probably saw what Tiger Woods was doing to cover up his "issues" and figured "I like money, why don't I try that?" She went to the police in January, during the Woods scandal. I don't think it happened because there's no evidence, only he says-she says. When I see some proof, my opinion will change.

[KCGHOST]

Apparently this is old news. The event in question occurred in October of last year. The case was closed two months later by the local Sheriff's department and no charges were filed. I have no idea what the truth is here but if I was a betting man I would say it was an amateur black mail attempt.

[NYMets523]

Just another chick crying wolf to get a few thousand from a professional athlete.

[AJbaseball00024]

Just some b*tch lying to get Johan's cash money.

[NJMetfan4life]

She's BAAAAAAA-CK

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/m...ory?id=5454238

[Matthew C.]

It seems everytime I give somebody the benefit of the doubt and defend them (Big Ben) it turns out that the worst case scenario was most likely true. Then I am ready to throw the entire Duke lacrosse team in prison and they were completely innocent. Lets all stop pretending we know what happened and stop assuming guilt or innocence unless we have access to evidence. It is better not even to speculate but trust that somehow or another justice will prevail (in theory, of course). .

[Shea Knight]

It seems everytime I give somebody the benefit of the doubt and defend them (Big Ben) it turns out that the worst case scenario was most likely true. Then I am ready to throw the entire Duke lacrosse team in prison and they were completely innocent. Lets all stop pretending we know what happened and stop assuming guilt or innocence unless we have access to evidence. It is better not even to speculate but trust that somehow or another justice will prevail (in theory, of course). .

I still don't buy her for two seconds, the story I read said she couldn't get a criminal charge on him/the DA wouldn't prosecute off of what she said, and now she's just going to take it to civil coutr for a quick grab at whatever money she can get.

[mandrake]

My only question....is his wife okay with it being consensual instead of assault/rape? I am sure she is thrilled with knowing it was just two people loving each other on a golf course and the she is not married to a rapist. Just like Tiger's wife was thrilled when she swung that golf club.

[EasilyFound]

Apparently this is old news. The event in question occurred in October of last year. The case was closed two months later by the local Sheriff's department and no charges were filed. I have no idea what the truth is here but if I was a betting man I would say it was an amateur black mail attempt.

Well, I wouldn't say it is old news b/c she has now filed suit. That is the news. Apparently Johan offered her $1,000,000 to go away.

[Frogshiem77]

She's BAAAAAAA-CK

http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/m...ory?id=5454238

According to that article "The state attorney's office didn't pursue criminal charges as it never received a complaint."

According to her lawyer she didn't pursue criminal charges because, "In January, when she found out they would not file the case, we went into negotiations with the defense," Clune said. "In the end, she filed because she thought Santana wasn't taking it serious enough."

Doesn't really make sense. I'm not going to speculate, but civil cases are much easier to win. It doesn't seem like "justice" is the objective here though.

[Matthew C.]

I will give Johan the benefit of the doubt without evidence. However, I will not label this woman as a goldigger (or worse) without evidence either- even if some of it doesn't make sense. Both sides deserve the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

[mandrake]

I will give Johan the benefit of the doubt without evidence. However, I will not label this woman as a goldigger (or worse) without evidence either- even if some of it doesn't make sense. Both sides deserve the benefit of the doubt at this stage.

While I personally have my doubts about her story.....I still have not heard anything at all by the actual 'victim' here......Santana's wife. Maybe I married a different type of woman, (or maybe I am afraid because she was ranked with MMA several years ago) but if I was in Johan's place, the least of my problems would be if this woman was a gold digger or not.