Post-WWII Playoff

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Hey everyone. Let's get this finished once and for all. In case you forgot, here's how it works:

Everyone (excluding myself) will vote for which team they want to advance in the usual draft thread. There are six teams, meaning three winners. The three that lose will be voted on to let one advance, thus making it a four-team semi-final round. Then we vote for the top two, followed by a winner.

Round 1:
Team A vs Team B
Team C vs Team D
Team E vs Team F

Teams A, C, and F are voted on; Team C wins

Round 2:
Team B vs Team C
Team D vs Team E

Round 3:
Team B vs Team E

I waive my voting rights. However, I will act as arbitrator if need be. My say goes.

[RuthMayBond]

So which teams go with which letters?

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I've generated the match-ups for round 1:

Brooklyn Bees vs. N. A. Grahams
Post-WWII Bums vs. Gotham Knights
Key Obezags vs. Columbus Alphas

Bees belong to Brad Harris.
Grahams belong to RuthMayBond.
Bums belong to BigRon.
Knights belong to Wade8813.
Obezags belong to Splendid Splinter.
Alphas belong to Tyrus4189Cobb.

The rosters are here. Let the madness begin...

[Wade8813]

Sorry - I thought I'd posted my team name. I'll go with the Gotham Knights.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Voting has already started. Feel free to post your ballots whenever. Very simple: just copy and paste the match ups I posted, with your winners bolded.

I created an unrequired team history. It was for fun as I awaited the final changes; don't think I'm trying to get some edge by doing it.

[BigRon]

Are we supposed to post our winners on this thread? I'll try to post mine tomorrow.

[Wade8813]

Brooklyn Bees vs. N. A. Grahams
Post-WWII Bums vs. Gotham Knights
Key Obezags vs. Columbus Alphas

BTW, there should probably be a deadline for submitting votes. Hopefully it'll be unnecessary, but we should still have it.

[BigRon]

My Round 1 votes:

N.A. Grahams over Brooklyn Bees- Brad's got a lot of offense but his 8 man pitching staff will hit the wall going against the teams in this league.

Key Obezags over Columbus Alphas- good matchup, but TSS has too much balance.

Post-WW2 Bums over Gotham Knights- another close matchup. The Bums have a better balanced lineup- more topflight baserunning, more power. Pitching matchups are close and good, but the Bums have more flexible guys in the bullpen. Also, the Knights have only 2 righthanders on the staff- they'll get into trouble over the long haul.

[Wade8813]

Post-WW2 Bums over Gotham Knights- another close matchup. The Bums have a better balanced lineup- more topflight baserunning, more power. Pitching matchups are close and good, but the Bums have more flexible guys in the bullpen. Also, the Knights have only 2 righthanders on the staff- they'll get into trouble over the long haul.

More power?!!? Are you looking at the right lineup? I have more power than you do. Not to mention my better on-base.

1st base - McCovey VS Killebrew. Both great sluggers.
2nd base - Grich VS Robinson. Both not sluggers, Robinson has a slight edge.
SS - Banks VS Larkin. Larkin had some pop, but he's nowhere close to Banks.
3B - Chipper VS Schmidt. Both great sluggers.
C - Posada VS Campanella. Both good sluggers, but Campanella was clearly better.
RF - F Robinson VS Reggie Jackson. Both great sluggers.
LF - Mantle VS Raines. Not even CLOSE. Mantle by a landslide
CF - Edmonds VS Puckett. Both solid power hitters, but Edmonds has a clear edge.
DH - Stargell VS Manny. Manny might have the edge by the numbers, but you have to deduct for steroids.

And your pitching isn't as good as mine. Your guys can last longer, but my guys provide more quality per inning. And since my guys can easily last more than long enough, your extra endurance is extraneous.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

I PMed all. Deadline is July 12. RuthMayBond needs to empty is messages, and I don't know what's become of Brad and Splinter.

[RuthMayBond]

I PMed all. Deadline is July 12. RuthMayBond needs to empty is messages, and I don't know what's become of Brad and Splinter.

My bad, I now have PM space

[RuthMayBond]

Your guys can last longer, but my guys provide more quality per inning. And since my guys can easily last more than long enough, your extra endurance is extraneous.

I knew this was never about career value but rates instead

[Wade8813]

I knew this was never about career value but rates instead

I believe we decided the voting was how we think the teams would do if pitted against each other. That means you need endurance for your team to make it through the season, but it's kind of overkill to have a rotation full of workhorses plus a bullpen stocked with innings eaters. The season just doesn't have that many innings in it.

[RuthMayBond]

I believe we decided the voting was how we think the teams would do if pitted against each other. That means you need endurance for your team to make it through the season, but it's kind of overkill to have a rotation full of workhorses plus a bullpen stocked with innings eaters. The season just doesn't have that many innings in it.

Go back and read the first phrase of the first post of the draft thread. Just because you believe that's how we did it doesn't mean we did. If the teams played against each other, WHICH year of each player would you use?

[Wade8813]

Go back and read the first phrase of the first post of the draft thread. Just because you believe that's how we did it doesn't mean we did. If the teams played against each other, WHICH year of each player would you use?

Sure, but remember, we're drafting teams, not individual performances. Hence the reason people picked slightly inferior players who had the handedness they needed, or filled a role they were lacking. BR brags about his team being balanced - that only matters if we're treating this like they're a team. It's important for a team to have enough playerse to not get exhausted during a season, but once you accomplish that, you need them to be more effective during those innings.

We seemed to not have any trouble figuring out how career stats would translate to real head to head play in the Alphabet draft. There are a lot of ways - look at the players' 162 game average (with penalties applied for short careers), pretend all of the players were rookies the same year and compare how they'd do each year, etc.

[BigRon]

More power?!!? Are you looking at the right lineup? I have more power than you do. Not to mention my better on-base.

1st base - McCovey VS Killebrew. Both great sluggers.
2nd base - Grich VS Robinson. Both not sluggers, Robinson has a slight edge.
SS - Banks VS Larkin. Larkin had some pop, but he's nowhere close to Banks.
3B - Chipper VS Schmidt. Both great sluggers.
C - Posada VS Campanella. Both good sluggers, but Campanella was clearly better.
RF - F Robinson VS Reggie Jackson. Both great sluggers.
LF - Mantle VS Raines. Not even CLOSE. Mantle by a landslide
CF - Edmonds VS Puckett. Both solid power hitters, but Edmonds has a clear edge.
DH - Stargell VS Manny. Manny might have the edge by the numbers, but you have to deduct for steroids.

And your pitching isn't as good as mine. Your guys can last longer, but my guys provide more quality per inning. And since my guys can easily last more than long enough, your extra endurance is extraneous.

Uh, you forgot one of my regulars- Duke Snider. And, you forgot one of my platoon players- Jim Thome. I think those guys clearly tip the power balance. And, as good a hitter as Chipper is, he's no Mike Schmidt in the power department. Power advantage- clearly mine.

In terms of pitching, we can debate all day. IF your guys had had to pitch as many innings as my guys, their WHIPS and other rate stats would have been lower. If my guys pitch fewer innings, their rates will be higher since they don't have to pace themselves as much. Two good teaqms, but I like my chances.

[Wade8813]

Uh, you forgot one of my regulars- Duke Snider. And, you forgot one of my platoon players- Jim Thome. I think those guys clearly tip the power balance. And, as good a hitter as Chipper is, he's no Mike Schmidt in the power department. Power advantage- clearly mine.

You're right, I forgot about your platoons.

Thome plays 1B, but you already have Killebrew there, so that doesn't matter much. Schmidt was a bit better than Chipper, but not by a huge amount. Snider does have a lot more pop than Puckett, and a bit more than Edmonds, but again, not a huge amount. But Banks CRUSHES Larkin. And Mantle crushes Raines by even more than Banks crushes Larkin. Those two matchups are completely lopsided in the power department. You don't have any positions where it's lopsided in your favor.

Of course, sticking Snider as your primary CFer also really hurts your fielding.

In terms of pitching, we can debate all day. IF your guys had had to pitch as many innings as my guys, their WHIPS and other rate stats would have been lower. If my guys pitch fewer innings, their rates will be higher since they don't have to pace themselves as much. Two good teaqms, but I like my chances.

I'm pretty sure it doesn't work like that. The more hits and walks you give up (especially walks), the more batters you have to face to get out of an inning. Halladay is known as a workhorse, and he is to some extent, but while his IP are higher, his pitch counts are only a bit higher than other guys - he just works more efficiently.

[RuthMayBond]

We seemed to not have any trouble figuring out how career stats would translate to real head to head play in the Alphabet draft.

If you say sso

<There are a lot of ways - look at the players' 162 game average (with penalties applied for short careers), pretend all of the players were rookies the same year and compare how they'd do each year, etc.>

Exactly, a LOT of ways, and how much penality. Not sure I understand your 2nd scenario

[Wade8813]

If you say sso

Exactly, a LOT of ways, and how much penality. Not sure I understand your 2nd scenario

Obviously there will be some subjectivity to it - that's why we vote, instead of just declaring me the winner

My second method would be to pretend that everyone on your team was a rookie this year. They each produce their real rookie season's production, and compare how the teams do with that production. Then for the next year, look at everyone's sophomore year value, etc.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Only BigRon has his vote posted. Can Wade and RuthMayBond please do the same amongst the intense bickering? (Easy, only a joke). I doubt Splinter nor Brad will be participated any longer. Unfortunately, it looks like it's the four of us. I'll still be third party, but you guys can still vote.

[Wade8813]

I voted in the post before BR did (although if you WANT me to vote twice...)

Maybe we should post this in Between Innings for a couple days, to get more opinions?

[RuthMayBond]

Obviously there will be some subjectivity to it - that's why we vote, instead of just declaring me the winner

My second method would be to pretend that everyone on your team was a rookie this year. They each produce their real rookie season's production, and compare how the teams do with that production. Then for the next year, look at everyone's sophomore year value, etc.

That's not complicated at all.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Key Obezags and N.A. Grahams are in regardless of RMB, but the Bums/Knights teeters on his very whim.

[RuthMayBond]

I believe the N. A. Grahams could beat the Bees
I actually had the Alphas over the Key O's, but what do I know, and fortunately it doesn't matter.
I'll give the edge to the Gotham Knights.

[Tyrus4189Cobb]

Ok, it's all set. The Grahams, Obezags, and Knights are all in. Now we decide the wild card.

Out of the teams left, who is worthy enough to make it to the semifinals?
Is it BigRon's Post-WWII Bums?
Is it Tyrus4189Cobb's Alphas?
Is it Brad's Bees?

Only YOU can decide.