My 8 year old swing. Please give advice

[jo6889]

I just started a few weeks ago teaching my son the rotational swing. Here is a video of him yesterday.

My initial analysis is that I see some bat drag due to the arm barring and his stride is a little to far. also he seems to get a little disconnected at the point of contact. His lower half seems pretty decent to me as i have compared it to some of the slow motion of albert pujols etc. I am sure there is room for improvement but it seems the upper half is alot of the problem.

Also on another note. When he puts the bat on his shoulder and is not allowed to get into his batting stance he does not exhibit any of the above problems. It is only when he raises the bat head into his batting stance then iniaites the stride that his hand get separated and the arm barring appears. I will have to take a video of what i am talking about but its similar to the bat position in the epstein torque drill.

address http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCdq9-IXYcc

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[Chris O'Leary]

I just started a few weeks ago teaching my son the rotational swing. Here is a video of him yesterday.

My initial analysis is that I see some bat drag due to the arm barring and his stride is a little to far. also he seems to get a little disconnected at the point of contact. His lower half seems pretty decent to me as i have compared it to some of the slow motion of albert pujols etc. I am sure there is room for improvement but it seems the upper half is alot of the problem.

I think strength and the size of the bat is part of it.

He seems to have trouble controlling the barrel and dumps it down out of plane.

It may also be pulling him out into extension too soon.

This is a nice swing and I'd love to see what he'd do with a higher drop bat (and perhaps one with a smaller barrel).

[jo6889]

he has three bats. the one in the video is a 29/19 but he also has a 30/22 Wood and a 31/18.5.

also what do you mean by "dumps it down out of plane?"

thanks

[d-mac]

he has three bats. the one in the video is a 29/19 but he also has a 30/22 Wood and a 31/18.5.

also what do you mean by "dumps it down out of plane?"

thanks

That 29/19 is too big for him. Probably too long and too heavy. He gets on plane with the pitch and then he finishes everything towards the ground which is going to result in him cutting the ball. He is going to hit ground balls or weak pop ups. I took my then 7 now 8 year old to an Epstein camp this winter and the first thing they pointed out was that his bat was too long. He was swinging a 29/17 and had the same issue that your kid has. My son is a big 8 year old and he used a 27/17 and 28/18 for travel ball this year and killed the ball. You will be shocked at how much better his swing will look with a shorter bat.

[jo6889]

That 29/19 is too big for him. Probably too long and too heavy. He gets on plane with the pitch and then he finishes everything towards the ground which is going to result in him cutting the ball. He is going to hit ground balls or weak pop ups. I took my then 7 now 8 year old to an Epstein camp this winter and the first thing they pointed out was that his bat was too long. He was swinging a 29/17 and had the same issue that your kid has. My son is a big 8 year old and he used a 27/17 and 28/18 for travel ball this year and killed the ball. You will be shocked at how much better his swing will look with a shorter bat.

may have to let him swing one of his teammates next game. i think alot of them swing 27 and 28 -10 bats.

[Chris O'Leary]

may have to let him swing one of his teammates next game. i think alot of them swing 27 and 28 -10 bats.

That's more like it.

My bigger 10Us swung 29s and the smaller ones swung 28s and 27s.

When they were 8Us, the average was probably 27s.

[jo6889]

This is a nice swing and I'd love to see what he'd do with a higher drop bat (and perhaps one with a smaller barrel).

is my analysis about right? lower half and weight shift look alright? any drills to fix some of the issues? i have heard putting a tee at his front foot to make him stay connected.

thanks for the replies

[pthawaii]

This is interesting to me. My son is just under 6 1/2 and he's swinging a 27/14. One of the coaches said he'd be better off swinging a 26/15 or 16. In my mind, I was thinking the longer bat was okay cause it would be offset by the bigger drop. But it seems you guys are sort of suggesting that it's the length and not the weight. How do you differ between the two? For example, what's the diff to the kid/swing 27/14 or 26/15 (length vs weight)?

[Chris O'Leary]

This is interesting to me. My son is just under 6 1/2 and he's swinging a 27/14. One of the coaches said he'd be better off swinging a 26/15 or 16. In my mind, I was thinking the longer bat was okay cause it would be offset by the bigger drop. But it seems you guys are sort of suggesting that it's the length and not the weight. How do you differ between the two? For example, what's the diff to the kid/swing 27/14 or 26/15 (length vs weight)?

The diameter of the barrel also matters. A fat head bat will generally have a higher swing weight than a thin head bat.

[atl_sud]

How about a view from behind (catcher's perspective)? I think his upper body is too upright with no forward tilt. A better posture will help keep his shoulders, arms, hands and bat on plane. I see a little arm barring but at least it is not happening as he is loading.

[songtitle]

I just looked in my basement at the 19/28 Easton TPS bat that all 7/8 yo girls used 10-15 years ago. So, I dont think 19 oz. is too heavy for any 7 or 8 yo boy.

[hitnpeas]

The diameter of the barrel also matters. A fat head bat will generally have a higher swing weight than a thin head bat.

Is this based on your educated guess or something you know to be fact....

[d-mac]

is my analysis about right? lower half and weight shift look alright? any drills to fix some of the issues? i have heard putting a tee at his front foot to make him stay connected.

thanks for the replies

I would like to see a video with a ball coming in from the front instead of the side. He needs to finish high, Epstein put a heavy bag out in front of my kid's front foot with the intention of hitting the top of it after the swing. It's not an easy fix, but going to a smaller bat seemed to help my son the most. Everything else on the video looked good. I still think part of the reason this is a problem with young kids more than older kids is because of lack of strength.

[Chris O'Leary]

Is this based on your educated guess or something you know to be fact....

Basic physics.

[Chris O'Leary]

He needs to finish high

This is bad advice.

The pitch is up, so the finish is going to be more around than up.

[Chris O'Leary]

I just looked in my basement at the 19/28 Easton TPS bat that all 7/8 yo girls used 10-15 years ago. So, I dont think 19 oz. is too heavy for any 7 or 8 yo boy.

Did you look at their swings on video.

You can get away with stuff in coach pitch or machine pitch that you can't at higher levels.

[songtitle]

His shoulders start "upside down" - the front is up. The front shoulder should be down at toe touch, then tilt/rotate, then be up at contact.

If you freeze it at 0:16 when his toe touches, his back elbow is tucked (down), his hands are as far as they can be from his back shoulder, and his front arm is barred.

These technique problems have nothing to do with the weight of the bat, and will not be corrected by changing bats.

At toe touch, his back elbow should be up. His hands should be at his shoulder or arm pit. If he does this, his front arm will not be barred.

Fix these things, then shoot us another video.

BTW, I like the way he strides and coils. (maybe he strides too far, but I'm not sure. Fix the other serious problems first)

[omg]

1. Be cautious about teaching the "rotational swing" as "teaching" it can do more harm then good.

2. I agree with you about the stride. Fixing this is the first step. Make it short and soft. You can have him stride a little early so that the stride gets locked in and separated from the aggressiveness of upper body action reacting to a pitch.

3. I do NOT like his back leg action-the back leg needs to remain higher and not near 90 degrees. If he had Pujois leg strength he could get away with it. His long stride may be the culprit or it could be misteaching-or misinterpreting -"rotational"....Fix the stride first because there is nothing more he can do once he jumps out like that.

[Chris O'Leary]

His shoulders start "upside down" - the front is up. The front shoulder should be down at toe touch, then tilt/rotate, then be up at contact.

His shoulders are level at the start. The back shoulder then drops as he tries to uppercut the ball.

I wouldn'tworry about this.

If you freeze it at 0:16 when his toe touches, his back elbow is tucked (down), his hands are as far as they can be from his back shoulder, and his front arm is barred.

His hands are in a decent position relative to his back shoulder (Vertical V) until the barrel starts to come around. The weight of the barrel then pulls him out into extension early. I'd bet he could hold the Vertical V longer with a lighter bat (and if the ball was tossed more at the heel of his front foot).

If a 7 yo girl can handle a 19 oz bat, this strong looking kid can handle it easily.

Again, did you look at their swings one video?

Just because they are doing OK in coach pitch, it doesn't mean their swings are all that good.

At toe touch, his back elbow should be up. His hands should be at his shoulder or arm pit. If he does this, his front arm will not be barred.

He does jump the gun a bit and swing a bit top-down.

[omg]

His shoulders are level at the start. The back shoulder then drops as he tries to uppercut the ball.
I wouldn'tworry about this.

His hands are in a decent position relative to his back shoulder (Vertical V) until the barrel starts to come around. The weight of the barrel then pulls him out into extension early. I'd bet he could hold the Vertical V longer with a lighter bat (and if the ball was tossed more at the heel of his front foot).

He uppercuts because he overstrides and drops his back leg. Actually I like his upper body mechanics in and of itself. But the lower body action negates it.

[songtitle]

Compare these 2 at toe touch:

Back elbow up, hands near back shoulder, front arm bent, front shoulder down


Back elbow down, hands away from back shoulder, front arm barred, front shoulder up


I don't know if the stride is too far (study the front leg). His front shoulder lean may be creating an optical illusion.

[Chris O'Leary]

He uppercuts because he overstrides and drops his back leg. Actually I like his upper body mechanics in and of itself. But the lower body action negates it.

IOW he's adjusting via rearward lean and not via tilt.

[FiveFrameSwing]

IOW he's adjusting via rearward lean and not via tilt.

Do you recommend or teach varying the degree of "anterior tilt" as a function of pitch height?

Please describe where in the swing sequence you recommend "anterior tilt" changes.

[Chris O'Leary]

Do you recommend or teach varying the degree of "anterior tilt" as a function of pitch height?

Please describe where in the swing sequence you recommend "anterior tilt" changes.

I'm not going to gum up the thread with this.

[tg643]

I'm not big on deep analysis of eight year olds. But here's a basic. In the three swings I watched he strided to a different place each time. Mechanics start from the ground up. Bad footwork will affect everything else. It's best to minimize movement with small kids. Teach him to hit with a short stride.